NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Finium]

In this case, because it is an either-or vote, an abstention is equivalent to a nay vote, since either one must achieve a 50% +1 majority.

As long as the admins confirm the abstain is equivalent of a nay. I would be fine with that.

Logic confirms this, but if you need an admin too, be my guest.

[Pesda]

But then people who would vote nay would feel they need to support one or the other to prevent the one they dislike the most from winning.

You have three options right,

Say we have this vote split

Executive 4
council 3
Nay to both 3


Executive wins the vote on numbers but has failed to get a 50%+1 majority. Thus both acts have failed to carry.

I see what you mean now. Well, I don't really mind.

[The Nihilistic view]

As long as the admins confirm the abstain is equivalent of a nay. I would be fine with that.

Logic confirms this, but if you need an admin too, be my guest.

I just don't want to get to the end and have a load of people like GN try and tell me that abstain vote does not count as a Nay like in most other bills.

[Mediciano]

Logic confirms this, but if you need an admin too, be my guest.

I just don't want to get to the end and have a load of people like GN try and tell me that abstain vote does not count as a Nay like in most other bills.

I am with him on this. Better to catch the problem in its infancy than let it grow into a crisis.

[Yanalia]

Logic confirms this, but if you need an admin too, be my guest.

I just don't want to get to the end and have a load of people like GN try and tell me that abstain vote does not count as a Nay like in most other bills.

I don't think counting the abstains as double nays is right. I think we should restart the vote.

[The Nihilistic view]

I just don't want to get to the end and have a load of people like GN try and tell me that abstain vote does not count as a Nay like in most other bills.

I don't think counting the abstains as double nays is right. I think we should restart the vote.

I would prefer that too, but in the case the vote is not restarted we still need a genuine No to either of the above choice.

[Forster Keys]

I vote for the Council.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

AYE for the council.

[Mediciano]

I vote for the Council.

Voting is suspended. Same thing for the other guy. We're not voting right now.

[Slazliyka]

I vote for the Council.

Voting is suspended. Same thing for the other guy. We're not voting right now.

Just keep the votes logged for now so they can be added later.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I vote for the Council.

Voting is suspended. Same thing for the other guy. We're not voting right now.

Well, fuck. So many pages wasted.

[Yankee Empire]

What are we dscussing then?

[The Nihilistic view]

What are we dscussing then?

Waiting for the admins to decide to what to do about the current vote and its shortcomings.

[Free South Califas]

I move to immediately end and then restart voting on the Executive Reform Act, this time with the fourth option to reject both options with a "nay" vote.

Therefor, voting options will be as follow:
[] Aye to an Executive Council
or
[] Aye to a President + Prime Minister
or
[] Nay to both
or
[] Abstain from voting

I oppose this. It gives an unfair advantage to the losing sides after a successful campaign to win support for ECFA has reflected the political balance of the Senate.

Invalid votes can be corrected, and absentions confirmed, by asking the voters which they preferred. It is clear that one could choose not to support either option, so that should settle things IMHO.

[The Nihilistic view]

I move to immediately end and then restart voting on the Executive Reform Act, this time with the fourth option to reject both options with a "nay" vote.

Therefor, voting options will be as follow:
[] Aye to an Executive Council
or
[] Aye to a President + Prime Minister
or
[] Nay to both
or
[] Abstain from voting

I oppose this. It gives an unfair advantage to the losing sides after a successful campaign to win support for ECFA has reflected the political balance of the Senate.

Invalid votes can be corrected, and absentions confirmed, by asking the voters which they preferred. It is clear that one could choose not to support either option, so that should settle things IMHO.

what are you saying? We're not allowed to vote Nay to both of the above? You sound like you don't want proper democracy. I oppose your opposition as you don't care about those of us that don't agree with either of the Bills.

The reason the vote has been stopped is because many feel that the vote was a wrong because there was no option to vote to keep the status Quo/nay to both the above. this is a three sided debate not as seems convenient to you a debate with two.


And Finally, its not successful if you lose the vote by failing to gain a 50%+1 majority of votes cast, it would be more becoming if you stopped talking like you had already won.

[Free South Califas]

I oppose this. It gives an unfair advantage to the losing sides after a successful campaign to win support for ECFA has reflected the political balance of the Senate.

Invalid votes can be corrected, and absentions confirmed, by asking the voters which they preferred. It is clear that one could choose not to support either option, so that should settle things IMHO.

what are you saying? We're not allowed to vote Nay to both of the above? You sound like you don't want proper democracy.

What in the vicious needless fuck, Nihl. I proposed asking each voter to make sure they were heard. I didn't make any claims about you being antidemocratic even though we seem to disagree about how to adequately represent the people on this issue right now.

I just don't want to get to the end and have a load of people like GN try and tell me that abstain vote does not count as a Nay like in most other bills.

I don't think counting the abstains as double nays is right. I think we should restart the vote.

That's true, I might be open to it although I still don't think it's the best option FWIW.

And Finally, its not successful if you lose the vote by failing to gain a 50%+1 majority of votes cast, it would be more becoming if you stopped talking like you had already won.

You can infer whatever you like - I was discussing the results that will have clearly reflected a good faith attempt to strike a certain political balance and show up to support it, pass or fail. I don't see things being so screwed up that we need to restart the whole process and have people send out TGs again and show up and vote again and stuff.

If we do, I don't want to stand in the way. And what we say might not matter regardless. i'm just not seeing the justification personally.

[The Nihilistic view]

what are you saying? We're not allowed to vote Nay to both of the above? You sound like you don't want proper democracy.

What in the vicious needless fuck, Nihl. I proposed asking each voter to make sure they were heard. I didn't make any claims about you being antidemocratic even though we seem to disagree about how to adequately represent the people on this issue right now.

I don't think counting the abstains as double nays is right. I think we should restart the vote.

That's true, I might be open to it although I still don't think it's the best option FWIW.

And Finally, its not successful if you lose the vote by failing to gain a 50%+1 majority of votes cast, it would be more becoming if you stopped talking like you had already won.

You can infer whatever you like - I was discussing the results that will have clearly reflected a good faith attempt to strike a certain political balance and show up to support it, pass or fail. I don't see things being so screwed up that we need to restart the whole process and have people send out TGs again and show up and vote again and stuff.

If we do, I don't want to stand in the way. And what we say might not matter regardless. i'm just not seeing the justification personally.

If you don't feel the need for a new ballot when one groups opinion is not represented currently then clearly my opening statement stands.

[Minroz]

I vote Aye.

[Great Nepal]

The recent points brought up about the validity of the voting are good points, and I believe the admins need to look at it. Therefore,

VOTING IS SUSPENDED ON THE EXECUTIVE REFORM ACT

until the admins talk. If you are an admin, edit your position into this post.

Admin voting
Great Nepal: I think we should restart voting, simply because we can't take "abstain" as "nay", it could simply be "dont care"...

[Blassland]

voting nay to both has the same affect as abstaining

[Regnum Dominae]

Internet Freedom Act
Sponsor: Regnum Dominae (LFP)
Co-Sponsors: Vedastia (LFP), Liberated Counties (CFE), Ainin (TR), United Provinces of Atlantica (CP), Geilinor (LD), Eliasonia (NIFP), Lemanrussland (LD), Yanalia (RG), Beta Test (LD), Distruzio (LFP), Priory Academy USSR (TR), The Jahistic Unified Republic (GG)

(1)
(a) The government shall not modify, censor, or remove online content.
(b) The above shall not apply to:
(I) content that exists in the .gov.an domain.
(II) pornography depicting persons under the age of consent, which will be set in future legislation.
(c) The above shall not be construed to remove the right of private persons, entities, or organizations to modify, censor, or remove content that exists on websites, databases, or servers owned by said private person, entity, or organization.
(d) The government shall not tamper with Domain Name Server (DNS) databases.

(2)
The government shall not monitor the online activities of individual persons, unless a warrant has been granted by a panel of judges based on substantial evidence of criminal activity.

(3)
Crimes committed over the Internet shall not be prosecuted any differently than the equivalent crime would be if it were committed through any other medium.

(4)
Encryption of data shall be fully legal, and the government shall not restrict access or use of encryption algorithms.

(5)
The right to freedom of speech shall apply to online communications and publications.

(6)
(a) The government shall not accept Internet-based personal information regarding individual customers from private businesses, unless a warrant has been granted by a panel of judges due to circumstances that require the government to be able to access the information.
(b) Private businesses shall have the right to choose not to keep records of individual customers if they so desire.

I motion to add this to the queue.

[Hathradic States]

Internet Freedom Act
Sponsor: Regnum Dominae (LFP)
Co-Sponsors: Vedastia (LFP), Liberated Counties (CFE), Ainin (TR), United Provinces of Atlantica (CP), Geilinor (LD), Eliasonia (NIFP), Lemanrussland (LD), Yanalia (RG), Beta Test (LD), Distruzio (LFP), Priory Academy USSR (TR), The Jahistic Unified Republic (GG)

(1)
(a) The government shall not modify, censor, or remove online content.
(b) The above shall not apply to:
(I) content that exists in the .gov.an domain.
(II) pornography depicting persons under the age of consent, which will be set in future legislation.
(c) The above shall not be construed to remove the right of private persons, entities, or organizations to modify, censor, or remove content that exists on websites, databases, or servers owned by said private person, entity, or organization.
(d) The government shall not tamper with Domain Name Server (DNS) databases.

(2)
The government shall not monitor the online activities of individual persons, unless a warrant has been granted by a panel of judges based on substantial evidence of criminal activity.

(3)
Crimes committed over the Internet shall not be prosecuted any differently than the equivalent crime would be if it were committed through any other medium.

(4)
Encryption of data shall be fully legal, and the government shall not restrict access or use of encryption algorithms.

(5)
The right to freedom of speech shall apply to online communications and publications.

(6)
(a) The government shall not accept Internet-based personal information regarding individual customers from private businesses, unless a warrant has been granted by a panel of judges due to circumstances that require the government to be able to access the information.
(b) Private businesses shall have the right to choose not to keep records of individual customers if they so desire.

I motion to add this to the queue.

Second.

[Ainin]

CURRENT QUEUE FOR LEGISLATION

1. Governmental Services Act
2. Ministry of Research and Astronomy Reform Act
3. National Culture Act
4. National Financing and Accounting Act
5. Legality and Restrictions Act
6. Senatorial Procedures Act
7. Anti-Corruption Act
8. International Treaties Ratification Act
9. Economic Oversight Act
10. Death with Dignity Act
11. Internet Registration Act
12. Voting out business management without holding shares is stupid idea and illegal
13. Standards of Daily Measurement Act
14. Condemnation of United States National Security Agency project: US-984XN
15. Animal Protection Act
16. Amend Transportation Ministry Provision Act 2013
17. Amend National Census Bureau Establishment Act
18. Repeal Commerce Ministry Act
19. Armed Forces Reform Act
20. Commercial Usage of Railways Act
21. Revenue Collection Act of 2013
22. Prime Minister and President's Questions Act
23. Loggerhead Turtle Protection Act
24. Equality Act
25. State of Emergency Act
26. Internet Freedom Act

[Great Nepal]

voting nay to both has the same affect as abstaining

It does not.
Abstain = I dont care.
No = I prefer current REA as it is.

[New Bierstaat]

Alright we have 5 nominations, therefore motion carried?

Small Business Assistance Act

Small Business Assistance Act.

Drafted by: The Realm of God (Progressive Conservative)

Co-Sponsored by: New Freedomstan (USLP.), Radiatia (Progressive Conservative), Beta Test (Liberal Democrat), Royalsoldiers (CFE), Zweite Alaje (NIFP)

RECOGNISES that this nation has no agency or support system for small business.

UNDERSTANDS that small business is often a life line for those who want to better their lives and provide for their family.

OBSERVES that starting a small business is often expensive and out of reach for most of our poorest.

THIS Act hereby establishes the Small Business Assistance Office.

THE Small Business Assistance Office is empowered to....

Provide low interest loans of up to £1,000,000 at a 2% APR for those who wish to start a small business. The Office can review each application on a case by case basis.

Offer free business advice.

Help register a business.

A small business is hereby defined as an unincorporated or private limited business which earns less than (Provisional Currency)1,000,000, a year. Owners must not have been declared bankrupt.

VALID forms of organisation include.

Unincorporated Sole Propriater.

Partnerships (both traditional and limited)

Cooperatives (Worker owned businesses)

Privately Held Corporations (A Limited Liability Company that keeps it's shares in the hands of family or friends of the owner).

SMALL business owners must provide a decent working wage for their workers, 90% of national average within the first two years of operation.

For this act, is "earnings" defined as sales or profit?
Also, the Universal Health Care Act hasn't a prayer of getting my vote unless a provision is added that limits how much can be spent on it in a year. Otherwise it will end up bloated and inefficient, and will price capitalist, free-market alternatives out of business.