[DEFEATED] Condemn Raxus Caedus Turn

[Klaus Devestatorie]

No Aeazen Combine connections, I'd edit that out.

I've got multiple sources saying otherwise.

It was brought up before to me as well; but the Aeazen Combine has not existed in any meaningful form since mid-2010. IIRC (I'd have to go MSN log digging and I'm not sure where to look specifically), Raxus was led to believe he was in charge of an "Aeazen Combine", but there was no actual real entity as such and he was led to think this for some other purpose.

[Corporation de Apple]

I've got multiple sources saying otherwise.

It was brought up before to me as well; but the Aeazen Combine has not existed in any meaningful form since mid-2010. IIRC (I'd have to go MSN log digging and I'm not sure where to look specifically), Raxus was led to believe he was in charge of an "Aeazen Combine", but there was no actual real entity as such and he was led to think this for some other purpose.

Regardless, he held a believed position of power in this.

Skyrim,if you could, please update to [SUBMITTED].

[Corporation de Apple]

The government of the United Empire support this and the new region of Markarth as the sole representative of the Markarthian people

Thanks! Glad to see your first post was with us!

[Klaus Devestatorie]

It was brought up before to me as well; but the Aeazen Combine has not existed in any meaningful form since mid-2010. IIRC (I'd have to go MSN log digging and I'm not sure where to look specifically), Raxus was led to believe he was in charge of an "Aeazen Combine", but there was no actual real entity as such and he was led to think this for some other purpose.

Regardless, he held a believed position of power in this.

Skyrim,if you could, please update to [SUBMITTED].

That doesn't make him condemnable. It just makes him a n00b. Thankfully, it wasn't left in there or I'd have to have the proposal voted down. I've no wish for the AC to be on the records of the WASC.

[Jamie Anumia]

I'm for this.

[Delegate Vinage]

Europeia will be debating this proposal very soon and, highly likely, we will be voting in complete and utter support of it.

Thank you Sky' Dip for your swift work here

[Mahaj]

OBSERVING that Turn has raider affiliations at large and has used military strength to raid with the Imperial Clindean Order and Markarth,

What.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

OBSERVING that Turn has raider affiliations at large and has used military strength to raid with the Imperial Clindean Order and Markarth,

What.

rhet·o·ric noun \ˈre-tə-rik\ noun

1. the art of speaking or writing effectively

2. skill in the effective use of speech

We all know some of the younger/less experienced Delegates and WA nations go for that sort of thing. Let's not act like it hasn't been done before.

[Mahaj]

What.

rhet·o·ric noun \ˈre-tə-rik\ noun

1. the art of speaking or writing effectively

2. skill in the effective use of speech

We all know some of the younger/less experienced Delegates and WA nations go for that sort of thing. Let's not act like it hasn't been done before.

So you're deliberately including non-relevant information?

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

rhet·o·ric noun \ˈre-tə-rik\ noun

1. the art of speaking or writing effectively

2. skill in the effective use of speech

We all know some of the younger/less experienced Delegates and WA nations go for that sort of thing. Let's not act like it hasn't been done before.

So you're deliberately including non-relevant information?

That's not what I said at all. It's relevant, even if it isn't to you. Some nations consider raiding to be a crime worthy on condemnation alone, so it makes sense to include a tiny, minimalistic tidbit in there on the matter.

[Mahaj]

So you're deliberately including non-relevant information?

That's not what I said at all. It's relevant, even if it isn't to you. Some nations consider raiding to be a crime worthy on condemnation alone, so it makes sense to include a tiny, minimalistic tidbit in there on the matter.

Yeah, but *you* don't.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

That's not what I said at all. It's relevant, even if it isn't to you. Some nations consider raiding to be a crime worthy on condemnation alone, so it makes sense to include a tiny, minimalistic tidbit in there on the matter.

Yeah, but *you* don't.

*I'm* not the only one who will be voting on the proposal.

[Mahaj]

Yeah, but *you* don't.

*I'm* not the only one who will be voting on the proposal.

Yeah, but you wrote it.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

*I'm* not the only one who will be voting on the proposal.

Yeah, but you wrote it.

Correct. And if *I* wrote only towards points I personally believe fully in, the UDL would be condemned and the SC would have only passed half the resolutions it has. There is a target audience here, obviously.

Edit for grammar.

[Jamie Anumia]

There is one concern I have about this proposal. Why should the founder be given the attention of a condemnation?

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

There is one concern I have about this proposal. Why should the founder be given the attention of a condemnation?

While the "badge of honor" argument has been brought up before, this isn't a simple case of looking for attention here. This is a systematic and repeated history of region and forum destruction on multiple accounts. These are exactly the types of actions the SC must condemn. Any SC regular can attest to the fact that I am usually all for allowing Founders to do what they want with their region, but this type of usurpation and blatant disregard for the community of the region is too heinous to left unattended.

[Jamie Anumia]

There is one concern I have about this proposal. Why should the founder be given the attention of a condemnation?

While the "badge of honor" argument has been brought up before, this isn't a simple case of looking for attention here. This is a systematic and repeated history of region and forum destruction on multiple accounts. These are exactly the types of actions the SC must condemn. Any SC regular can attest to the fact that I am usually all for allowing Founders to do what they want with their region, but this type of usurpation and blatant disregard for the community of the region is too heinous to left unattended.

Even though founder coups have happened multiple times before? Remember TUK anyone?

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Even though founder coups have happened multiple times before? Remember TUK anyone?

(Coups + forum destruction) x 3 at least is the case here. If that's not enough to sway your vote, I'm not sure what else will. "General douchebaggery" was a suggested clause, but I don't believe the SC would have allowed that.

[Jamie Anumia]

Even though founder coups have happened multiple times before? Remember TUK anyone?

(Coups + forum destruction) x 3 at least is the case here. If that's not enough to sway your vote, I'm not sure what else will. "General douchebaggery" was a suggested clause, but I don't believe the SC would have allowed that.

I agree with some of your points that what the founder has done has happened on more occasions. I've decided that I will abstain on this. I wish you luck with your proposal nonetheless.

[Eldarion Telcontar]

Factually Incorrect,

Turn rightfully shut down the ICO, and had the power to do so. He committed no crimes against the ICO.
Turn also abandonded Athos, he did not commit any crimes against them.

He founded both regions and had the constitutional right, as well as support from the populace to close down both regions. He did not, I repeat, not, commit any crimes against either region.

I'm not denying the fact that what he did was wrong, and against Markarthian Law, just stating that parts in this proposal are factually incorrect.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Factually Incorrect,

Turn rightfully shut down the ICO, and had the power to do so. He committed no crimes against the ICO.
Turn also abandonded Athos, he did not commit any crimes against them.

He founded both regions and had the constitutional right, as well as support from the populace to close down both regions. He did not, I repeat, not, commit any crimes against either region.

I'm not denying the fact that what he did was wrong, and against Markarthian Law, just stating that parts in this proposal are factually incorrect.

Turn shut down the ICO in an attempt to scrub the region and his name from wrong-doing. It included destroying the region and the forums, ergo, there is no mistake there. Nowhere does the proposal say that Turn "committed crimes against the ICO." Rather, it truthfully states he shut down the region and the forum.

[Eldarion Telcontar]

From what I've understood from then, was that he closed the region after an attempt to revive it. He didn't eject and ban members from the government, he only passworded the region and the main community went along with it and moved to another region.

I still do not think he commited any wrong-doings with the ICO, mostly because most people supported him. If they didn't support him, they wouldn't have moved to the same region he was a part of/founded for the ICO community.

You also didn't dispute the fact he did nothing against Athos.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

From what I've understood from then, was that he closed the region after an attempt to revive it. He didn't eject and ban members from the government, he only passworded the region and the main community went along with it and moved to another region.

I still do not think he commited any wrong-doings with the ICO, mostly because most people supported him. If they didn't support him, they wouldn't have moved to the same region he was a part of/founded for the ICO community.

You also didn't dispute the fact he did nothing against Athos.

Not all the members in any of Turn's previous regions sided with him nor followed him explicitly. He still destroyed the region and forcibly removed the members that would not leave, and killed off the forums. Turn had enough recruiting power that not everyone in his regions was his little puppet. There were new members that were innocent in these sordid affairs. Nor does his history of "slightly-benevolent usurpation and forum destruction" excuse the more "evil" case in Markarth.

[Albioney]

I was present at the Coup, while he did it. I was in the Chatroom. I can tell you that he had no legitement reason for doing it. He handed down the power and had resigned. Since his resignation, he hadn't been getting much attention (like when a mother has a baby and the other child feels left out). We asked him during the coup why he was doing this and we never got a straight answer. We fought back but he was just doing all of this for power, so other reason. He had no right to do this.

[Collective Nationalist Republic]

BELIEVING that the sovereignty of democratically elected officials should not be infringed upon, nor should any legitimate government be usurped by an oppressive and dictatorial regime

I would like to point out that this statement is invalid, as it is widely known that the masses are asses. While we do not approve of such actions, it is unethical for us to condemn this action. We motion against this condemnation.