[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

by **Kandorith** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:01 am

We also vote no for this proposal, as it seems utterly unnecessary.

For reasons throughout fully listed above.

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:10 am

Kandorith wrote:We also vote no for this proposal, as it seems utterly unnecessary.

For reasons throughout fully listed above.

All the reasons listed by Asgard are silly.

by **Jamie Anumia** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:15 am

Mahaj wrote:
Kandorith wrote:We also vote no for this proposal, as it seems utterly unnecessary.

For reasons throughout fully listed above.

All the reasons listed by Asgard are silly.

The ambassador from Jamie Anumia feels that as the author of the proposal, you would be expected to say that. Yet you have yet to back up your arguments that these reasons are 'silly'.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:27 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:
Mahaj wrote:All the reasons listed by Asgard are silly.

The ambassador from Jamie Anumia feels that as the author of the proposal, you would be expected to say that. Yet you have yet to back up your arguments that these reasons are 'silly'.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

They've been proven to be lies.

Repeated lies.

by **Jamie Anumia** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 am

Mahaj wrote:
Jamie Anumia wrote:The ambassador from Jamie Anumia feels that as the author of the proposal, you would be expected to say that. Yet you have yet to back up your arguments that these reasons are 'silly'.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

They've been proven to be lies.

Repeated lies.

I still fail to see any evidence.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

by **The Great Destruction** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:35 am

I cannot vote for any single liberation when no nation from the said region will speak up either for or against. Therfore I will vote no until this happens.

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:42 am

The Great Destruction wrote:I cannot vote for any single liberation when no nation from the said region will speak up either for or against. Therfore I will vote no until this happens.

I would hope the default would be a 'yes' vote...

its better to help somebody than to not help them.

by **The Brotherhood of Portugal** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:43 am

When will nations stop using the security council for their own political means? The Brotherhood votes NO.

by **Cromarty** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:44 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:
Mahaj wrote:They've been proven to be lies.

Repeated lies.

I still fail to see any evidence.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

From their TG:

Defenders have now taken to the WA Security Council asking it to liberate a native population that has not been active in some time, if ever. The last post on the Regional Message Board prior to our invasion was over five months ago. In addition, the Capitalis de Societate of the United Defenders League, Unibot, has stated that at least one native refused UDL assistance in liberating the region.

This was a lie.

Asgard's intentions for Christmas are no secret. We intend to make Christmas a cultural hub of NationStates, the home to Christmas and other winter celebrations sponsored by Asgard and our friends and allies abroad. In addition, as a show of good faith, we will guarantee the right of native return to Christmas. By annexing Christmas, Asgard can protect this region from further invasion as well. In annexing Christmas, our goal is not to collect a simple trophy, but to expand our regional influence in such a way that will benefit the natives of Christmas, the citizens of Asgard, and many people in the NationStates world.

They intend to make Christmas a 'cultural hub of NationStates', but have no plan on how to do so. They admitted this here.

In that same post they ask us to trust that their intentions are 'noble'. To do so would be equivalent to trusting that a home invader will repair the door he kicked in when invaded your home.

It is up to us all to not allow the defenders to use the Security Council to maintain the status quo. Asgard is dedicated to using our time and influence to build up an inactive region and give it a place in the NS community.

But only once a year. :roll:

Inactive regions do not need to become useless and die, and Christmas is a prime example of that, so please, give Asgard the chance to develop this region into what it should be rather than bowing to the wants of the defenders and sentencing Christmas to a slow death.

Ironically Asgard's refounded region would suffer from chronic inactivity for 11 months of the year.

by **Cromarty** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:44 am

The Brotherhood of Portugal wrote:When will nations stop using the security council for their own political means? The Brotherhood votes NO.

So what would you use the Security Council for exactly? :eyebrow:

by **Lyanna Stark** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:58 am

I, Lyanna Stark, as Pharaoh and Delegate of Osiris, will be voting for this resolution due to a 4-1 internal vote. Asgard has failed to convince us that they are noble in their approach or have any plans for after refound on making this an actual 'cultural hub'.

As Asgard seems to be attempting this without any set plan, without any experience or reasons to be trusted, and without any care for the natives that reside there, this Delegate votes AYE to liberate. They've already lied to us in this thread, why trust them; why let them steal Christmas?

by **Jamie Anumia** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:03 am

I'm not convinced by any of the points presented in this thread. I still view this as just another use of the SC as a defender tool.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

by **Cromarty** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:04 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:I'm not convinced by any of the points presented in this thread. I still view this as just another use of the SC as a defender tool.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

Feel like explaining why you aren't convinced, Ambassador?

by **Jamie Anumia** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:07 am

Cromarty wrote:
Jamie Anumia wrote:I'm not convinced by any of the points presented in this thread. I still view this as just another use of the SC as a defender tool.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

Feel like explaining why you aren't convinced, Ambassador?

I think most of my reasoning rests on the argument of this proposal being little more than a defender tool. However, I do have other reasons, there has not been 1 native that has posted in this thread arguing for the liberation, which leads me to think this proposal does not even have native support.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:10 am

Jamie Anumia wrote:
Cromarty wrote:Feel like explaining why you aren't convinced, Ambassador?

I think most of my reasoning rests on the argument of this proposal being little more than a defender tool. However, I do have other reasons, there has not been 1 native that has posted in this thread arguing for the liberation, which leads me to think this proposal does not even have native support.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

The raid didn't have native support either.

I'm not sure why you think its okay to destroy regions.

by **Dagguerro** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:11 am

Voting in favour of this liberate. I believe the eloquent summary from the ambassador for Damanucus reflects our own reasoning.

- Lord Swift

by **Hells Fury** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:14 am

As Secretary of Defense for Gargantuan and spokesperson for District 10 Villagers we state our eternal OPPOSITION to this proposal. After failing to see any further evidence from natives of Christmas to justify this proposal, D10 has stated that he sees no reason to "liberate a region that is, finally, beginning to do something positive". He also states that is a shame that "the author fails to see the positives of annexing this region into Asgard. Christmas was failing and the author intends to destroy everything they have in their favor. Asgard has plans to make Christmas successful. Let's not take their freedom to choose away."

by **The Great Destruction** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:28 am

Is it ture that no native nation from this region has anything to say? Squatter's rights then. The land is unclaimed and no belongs to those who tak it... or take it back. Whatever the case may be. This liberation appears to be misplaced. Do it the old fashiod way or not at all. No, I still won't vote for a liberation called by some nation UN-AFFILIATED with the region.

by **Scrooger Codger** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:43 am

It's kind of funny watching everyone here trying to define what natives want in a region where the 4 oldest nations are puppets of the same guy, while the other 3 (including this one) mainly exist to be themed nations who wanted to match the region name.

With that in mind, how are you supposed to think the serious "gameplayer mindset" you all expect, when your entire reason for playing the nation is for such a casual/frivolous reason?

However if you must insist.... I want to continue playing this nation nonchalantly, logging in once every 60 days to not CTE, not really caring...until Christmas where I can spam a few 'Bah Humbugs"...and then not care for other 360 days of year...and repeat.

(In a way I'm only here making this post cause I play as a gameplayer in my other nation so I'm used to these discussions... the typical non gameplayer, which I guess the fellow nations in Christmas are, doesn't even get this far

)

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:09 am

Mahaj wrote:I'm not sure why you think its okay to destroy regions.

Repeating the same garbage for 4 pages doesn't make it any more true.

Cromarty wrote:
Defenders have now taken to the WA Security Council asking it to liberate a native population that has not been active in some time, if ever. The last post on the Regional Message Board prior to our invasion was over five months ago. In addition, the Capitalis de Societate of the United Defenders League, Unibot, has stated that at least one native refused UDL assistance in liberating the region.

This was a lie.

I've already established that this was a mistake, take some time to read the opposition. I'm aware that it doesn't un-send the TG's, but there's no reason to make us out to be evil liars when I just misunderstood Unibot.

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:13 am

Ambroscus Koth wrote:I've already established that this was a mistake, take some time to read the opposition. I'm aware that it doesn't un-send the TG's, but there's no reason to make us out to be evil liars when I just misunderstood Unibot.

[sarcasm]A mistake across radically different ideologies is a perfect reason to label nations as evil liars![/sarcasm]

by **Cromarty** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 am

Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:
Ambroscus Koth wrote:I've already established that this was a mistake, take some time to read the opposition. I'm aware that it doesn't un-send the TG's, but there's no reason to make us out to be evil liars when I just misunderstood Unibot.

[sarcasm]A mistake across radically different ideologies is a perfect reason to label nations as evil liars![/sarcasm]

Why was no retraction telegram issued? When you know what you've said is untrue and make no attempt to inform the people you've told this... untruth to, then it becomes an outright fabrication.

by **Argo Rhos** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:46 am

So what I'm guessing is no matter what raiders can not refound regions? Why not just make it illegal? This region was inactive, why do defenders care so much for small inactive regions? it seems to me that every region now no matter how small will be liberated by the UDL. Not that I care anymore, but, I'm against the idea of defenders/raiders dictating how the game should be played

The problem and I have noticed this with raiders, is defenders believe themselves to always be right and morally justified and never wrong.

Unless theirs a large outcry, who cares?

by **Lebuckte** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:03 am

I am a native of Christmas. I do not want it liberated. That being said, I do not want the region to be refounded. I do not want the region to be passworded. I do not want myself and others ejected from the region.

Therefore, I support this proposal.

by **Fynnbays** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:18 am

Lebuckte wrote:I am a native of Christmas. I do not want it liberated. That being said, I do not want the region to be refounded. I do not want the region to be passworded. I do not want myself and others ejected from the region.

Therefore, I support this proposal.

Qu'est-ce que WHAT?!? :eyebrow:

How can you not want the region to be liberated and then support a liberation proposal?

[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

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