Ireland: Smoke-free by 2025?

[Neo Bretonnia]

No man is an island. Smoking is incredibly detrimental to ones' health, which means that the healthcare system has to put more money and resources into you in order to treat you for things like lung cancer and COPD. The healthcare system putting more money into treating smokers means that they have to increase costs elsewhere in order to compensate, and that means that there's a higher cost on everyone else. Not to mention the effects of second-hand smoking, which is an entirely different issue altogether.

This kind of logic can (and often is) used to justify all kinds of laws, limits and restrictions by the father-knows-best state. It's saying "If you get sick we have to pay for more so we have a right to control what you do with your body."

(The ironic ramifications on the debate on abortion are staggering here.)

This kind of mentality is used to justify helmet laws, seatbelt laws, airbag laws, and now you can't get a large soda in New York City. This is a side effect of government healthcare, mind you, and has been an argument against it, (the more you expect to be taken care of, the more freedoms you have to give up) but that's a separate matter.

Either you believe in personal freedom and the ability to choose for one's self, or you don't. Healthcare costs are just an excuse to impose more and more control. I personally find smoking offensive, and my mother is battling lung cancer because of her own poor choices in that regard, but ultimately the choice is hers, for better or worse.

As for education... If you want to throw more taxpayer funds into telling kids how awful smoking is then go ahead, but it's a waste. In this day and age, school age kids know perfectly well what the health impact is from smoking. They're absolutely inundated with it already. They GET it. Why do they still choose to do it? Well, simply put, they're young, dumb and naive. They know what the end result is of smoking but in their youth they still feel like they're immortal, invulnerable, and even if they do have a problem that's decades away. My son chose to start smoking and he lived with my mother through the worst of her cancer treatments. Even witnessing first hand the effects he still goes out and makes moronic decisions. Mind you, we're talking about a college student who is studying Mechanical Engineering, so he's got brains. It's just that young people don't always USE their intelligence.

[New Aerios]

No man is an island. Smoking is incredibly detrimental to ones' health, which means that the healthcare system has to put more money and resources into you in order to treat you for things like lung cancer and COPD. The healthcare system putting more money into treating smokers means that they have to increase costs elsewhere in order to compensate, and that means that there's a higher cost on everyone else. Not to mention the effects of second-hand smoking, which is an entirely different issue altogether.

Whinging about 'nanny states' is the worst sort of angst-y whininess.

I wonder why no one of these anti-nanny types yet suggested denying free lung cancer treatment to long-time smokers. I mean, if you are so against the nanny state, then take your responsibilities and pay for the illness you caused on yourself from your own wallet.

Well, the fact that I'm an AnCap kind of implies that I think people should pay for their own medical treatment anyway. They can't put a strain on the health service if there isn't a health service, can they?

[Nervium]

That reminds me, I wonder will 'Ming' Flanagan ever legalise weed?

Let's hope, and make the Emerald Isle just that little more greener.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I think it is a worthy goal and i support it, but i dont think there will ever be a complete ban on smoking in Ireland, or any country for that matter,a ton of people just like smoking and want to continue it despite the health risks.

[Levd]

Definitely a worthwhile goal, to my mind. Smoking adds nothing productive to society and provides nothing but long-term health issues for the individual. A total tobacco ban would be costly, counter-productive and unlikely, as smoking can be reduced considerably with other methods such as education, taxation, bans on advertising and display, and so on.

[Greater-London]

What does it mean by smoke free?

If you mean you cant smoke in an enclosed public space then I can live with that. The effects of passive smoking are bad enough to warrant the ban, although I would allow pubs and restaurants to purchase smoking permits.

If you mean I can't smoke on the street, or in the park then I'm sorry you can get lost. I am yet to be convinced that the effects of passive smoking are so bad that someone walking past you in an open space with a fag on the go is going to damage your health.

[Greater-London]

I wonder why no one of these anti-nanny types yet suggested denying free lung cancer treatment to long-time smokers. I mean, if you are so against the nanny state, then take your responsibilities and pay for the illness you caused on yourself from your own wallet.

I can and do complain about the nanny state whilst believing that smokers should have free treatment for lung cancer.

Why ? because you can't withdraw healthcare from people because of bad decisions. If someone has unprotected sex and contracts HIV should they be denied treatment? no of course not.

[Avenio]

I wonder why no one of these anti-nanny types yet suggested denying free lung cancer treatment to long-time smokers. I mean, if you are so against the nanny state, then take your responsibilities and pay for the illness you caused on yourself from your own wallet.

Well, the fact that I'm an AnCap kind of implies that I think people should pay for their own medical treatment anyway. They can't put a strain on the health service if there isn't a health service, can they?

The problem is that medical treatments have costs that are disproportionate to the out-of-pocket costs alone. This is true in national healthcare systems as well as in privatized ones. Life insurance premiums go up, resources like doctors, nurses, medicine and equipment are diverted to care for chronic smoking-related conditions and productivity in the workplace is lost.

[Gravlen]

I support the idea of a smoke free society, but I'm not exactly sure how to strike the best balance between personal freedom and public health...

[Costa Fierro]

With the two major parties committed to the goal of making Ireland smoke-free by 2025 the questions we must ask ourselves are can this be done, and the much more entertaining question, should this be done?

Oddly enough, this is exactly the same date New Zealand has set for eradicating smoking. Unfortunately, it's being led by a politician who is morbidly obese and had a stomach stapling operation a few years ago. Which is kinda hypocritical.

[Ayreonia]

I wonder when lawmakers realize that banning the shit out of stuff is not a solution to all life's problems.

[Lemanrussland]

Tobacco abuse is a public health issue, but I don't think a "smoke-free Ireland" (in other words, a ban on tobacco) is going to help.

Pushing controlled substances into the black market (which raises prices, degrades quality, funnels money into criminal organizations, and in most cases exacerbates the social problems caused by substance abuse) by outright banning them is not a good solution. Keeping them in the white market and regulating them is much better, since you can exercise regulatory control over the suppliers, retailers, and the users.

[Nervium]

Tobacco abuse is a public health issue, but I don't think a "smoke-free Ireland" (in other words, a ban on tobacco) is going to help.

Pushing controlled substances into the black market (which raises prices, degrades quality, funnels money into criminal organizations, and in most cases exacerbates the social problems caused by substance abuse) by outright banning them is not a good solution. Keeping them in the white market and regulating them is much better, since you can exercise regulatory control over the suppliers, retailers, and the users.

Better than regulation is public health ad campaigns, shocking how they may be. And information.

[Olthar]

A smoke free world would be awesome. Fresh air everywhere. Awesome.

That said, I wouldn't support a blanket ban. That's infringement of rights and bodily sovereignty. However, a ban on smoking in all public places would be fine. Just don't try banning it in people's homes.

[Nervium]

A smoke free world would be awesome. Fresh air everywhere. Awesome.

That said, I wouldn't support a blanket ban. That's infringement of rights and bodily sovereignty. However, a ban on smoking in all public places would be fine. Just don't try banning it in people's homes.

Or... We allow it in public spaces but ban it at people's home.

[Magni Quas]

I would love to see this happen.Being Irish myself.

[Ayreonia]

A smoke free world would be awesome. Fresh air everywhere. Awesome.

That said, I wouldn't support a blanket ban. That's infringement of rights and bodily sovereignty. However, a ban on smoking in all public places would be fine. Just don't try banning it in people's homes.

Smoking indoors? Eww. That's gross, and this is coming from a smoker.

[Volantyz]

Roman priests tell people how to behave and keep silent: Bears are Catholic, Popes poo in the Woods, more news at 11.


All the Smokers, Jews, Protestants, Gays, Women etc must be rounded up in Camps to stop them complaining about Priests' inalienable right to rape children {sarcasm mode OFF]

[Olthar]

A smoke free world would be awesome. Fresh air everywhere. Awesome.

That said, I wouldn't support a blanket ban. That's infringement of rights and bodily sovereignty. However, a ban on smoking in all public places would be fine. Just don't try banning it in people's homes.

Smoking indoors? Eww. That's gross, and this is coming from a smoker.

"Homes" is implied to contain "outside private property." :|

[Ayreonia]

Roman priests tell people how to behave and keep silent: Bears are Catholic, Popes poo in the Woods, more news at 11.


All the Smokers, Jews, Protestants, Gays, Women etc must be rounded up in Camps to stop them complaining about Priests' inalienable right to rape children {sarcasm mode OFF]

I tried reading this backwards to check for any subliminal messaging. It made slightly more sense, but my reaction can still be summed up as "wtf."

[Volantyz]

Roman priests tell people how to behave and keep silent: Bears are Catholic, Popes poo in the Woods, more news at 11.


All the Smokers, Jews, Protestants, Gays, Women etc must be rounded up in Camps to stop them complaining about Priests' inalienable right to rape children {sarcasm mode OFF]

I tried reading this backwards to check for any subliminal messaging. It made slightly more sense, but my reaction can still be summed up as "wtf."

To explain the explanation. There is a big scandal-gate about Roman priests raping children and being protected by the Authorities. I will try and find some sources since you have never heard of such a thing.

Priests want to distract attention from the scandal-gate, so they pogrom Smokers and such-like minorities.

[Ayreonia]

I tried reading this backwards to check for any subliminal messaging. It made slightly more sense, but my reaction can still be summed up as "wtf."

To explain the explanation. There is a big scandal-gate about Roman priests raping children and being protected by the Authorities. I will try and find some sources since you have never heard of such a thing.

Priests want to distract attention from the scandal-gate, so they pogrom Smokers and such-like minorities.

Nobody has mentioned priests.

[God Kefka]

On this day 10 years ago the Republic of Ireland banned smoking in all enclosed workplaces, the first such ban to be enacted nationally anywhere. Today that ban is being hailed as an unqualified success.

Tobacco Free Research Institute Ireland estimates that 3,700 lives have been saved as a result of the smoking ban.
...
The Irish Heart Foundation said that heart attacks have reduced by over 10% as a result of the ban.

The Irish Cancer Society claims that there has been a 25% reduction in the number of people smoking since the ban was introduced.
...
[Dr Pat Doorley, chair of the tobacco policy group at the Royal College of Physicians,] added: "Within three months we saw a decrease in respiratory symptoms in bar workers that is not seen in Northern Ireland.

"Within a year, we saw a 13% decrease in heart attack admissions to hospital and over the next two years we saw a further 12% decline."

But Minister Reilly isn't content to stop here...

Minister for Health James Reilly has said the smoking ban has been a success, but he believes in the need to go further and work towards a smoke-free future.

Commenting on the tenth anniversary of the smoking ban, he said he believed smoking trends are moving downwards but he wanted to tackle the root of the problem.

Mr Reilly said he wanted to bring in standardised packaging, which will make the damaging effects of smoking very clear to children.

He said: "It's very clear, given that nearly 78% of smokers in survey after survey will tell you they started smoking under the age of 18, that this industry focuses and targets our children."

He said their main way of getting at young people is "through the cigarette box which is, if you like, the last billboard they have".

Tobacco replacement products may have a value in helping smokers quit, he said, but added they had no value as a lifestyle choice, which is how they are marketed.

The minister aims to have a smoke-free society by 2025, but said that there were a lot of problems and departments involved in the issues and that it would take time.

And he isn't without opposition support...

Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin said he supports the minister's plans for a smoke-free society.

Mr Martin, who was health minister when the smoking ban was introduced, said there was serious opposition to the ban when it was first suggested, but said that the government succeeded in introducing it.

The plan for a smoke-free society would have to be backed up by a comprehensive package of measures, he said.

"That particularly relates to cessation programmes, it relates to education and it relates to some of the initiatives, for example of putting it beyond sight, which we did within shops and so on, and the whole branding issue," Mr Martin said.

With the two major parties committed to the goal of making Ireland smoke-free by 2025 the questions we must ask ourselves are can this be done, and the much more entertaining question, should this be done?

I don't think an outright ban on tobacco is likely, and short of that I suspect there'll always be a few smokers, no matter how the dangers of doing so are highlighted and no matter what alternatives are offered. That said, I do think that a smoke-free Ireland is a worthy goal for the government to work towards. We may never get there, but as unhealthy as smoking is I'm totally okay with the government setting itself against it and making sure that people who do choose to smoke are doing so in full possession of the facts and without any marketing shenanigans from the tobacco industry.

OH MY GOD YIEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

I absolutely HATE smoking. BAN IT IRELAND! Show us it can be done!

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

In the name of justice and the public health!

[Ifreann]

That reminds me, I wonder will 'Ming' Flanagan ever legalise weed?

Slim chances.

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Ireland is not going to be successful at it, its government is not very successful at much- the Economy, Gaelic, overall competance.

The smoking ban has been rather successful...

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As for education... If you want to throw more taxpayer funds into telling kids how awful smoking is then go ahead, but it's a waste. In this day and age, school age kids know perfectly well what the health impact is from smoking. They're absolutely inundated with it already. They GET it...

Wouldn't that mean the money spent isn't being wasted?

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What does it mean by smoke free?

Nobody smoking. People who do already quit, and people who don't don't start.

---

With the two major parties committed to the goal of making Ireland smoke-free by 2025 the questions we must ask ourselves are can this be done, and the much more entertaining question, should this be done?

Oddly enough, this is exactly the same date New Zealand has set for eradicating smoking. Unfortunately, it's being led by a politician who is morbidly obese and had a stomach stapling operation a few years ago. Which is kinda hypocritical.

I don't see how.

---

I wonder when lawmakers realize that banning the shit out of stuff is not a solution to all life's problems.

It seems to be working rather well here.

---

Roman priests tell people how to behave and keep silent: Bears are Catholic, Popes poo in the Woods, more news at 11.


All the Smokers, Jews, Protestants, Gays, Women etc must be rounded up in Camps to stop them complaining about Priests' inalienable right to rape children {sarcasm mode OFF]

You have the weirdest ideas about how Ireland works.

[Ifreann]

On this day 10 years ago the Republic of Ireland banned smoking in all enclosed workplaces, the first such ban to be enacted nationally anywhere. Today that ban is being hailed as an unqualified success.

But Minister Reilly isn't content to stop here...

And he isn't without opposition support...


With the two major parties committed to the goal of making Ireland smoke-free by 2025 the questions we must ask ourselves are can this be done, and the much more entertaining question, should this be done?

I don't think an outright ban on tobacco is likely, and short of that I suspect there'll always be a few smokers, no matter how the dangers of doing so are highlighted and no matter what alternatives are offered. That said, I do think that a smoke-free Ireland is a worthy goal for the government to work towards. We may never get there, but as unhealthy as smoking is I'm totally okay with the government setting itself against it and making sure that people who do choose to smoke are doing so in full possession of the facts and without any marketing shenanigans from the tobacco industry.

OH MY GOD YIEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

I absolutely HATE smoking. BAN IT IRELAND! Show us it can be done!

This is definitely a step in the right direction.

In the name of justice and the public health!

There is no plan to ban smoking entirely.