[DRAFT] Cyber Weapons Security Act

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

OOC: What are you even talking about. Cyber weapons exist in nation states.

IC: "The people on life support in hospitals disagree."

Yes they do. But the power grid isn't a necessity for life. Again, hospitals do not need the power grid to continue functioning or keep life support running.

OOC: You are driving me fucking crazy.

IC: "Ok so, how do you want a hospital to get gas during war time for there generators?"

[Jarish Inyo]

Yes they do. But the power grid isn't a necessity for life. Again, hospitals do not need the power grid to continue functioning or keep life support running.

OOC: You are driving me fucking crazy.

Not my fault your arguments are not holding water.

[Imperium Anglorum]

If that is the case, and power grids are only protected because they are centralised and failure would cause 'millions' to die, you have an internal contradiction. The entire reason you want to protect power grids is because of their centralisation — blow up a dam or a nuclear plant and blackouts occur. If a cold fusion reactor on a single spaceship counts as a power grid, these 'power grids' of yours aren't actually centralised at all. If that is the case, then you don't need to protect them because they aren't then too big to fail, which proves that your definition of power grid is overly broad.

"Read the draft. I never said centration. It counts as a power grid for the ship."

1. Power grids are important because failure would lead to lots of bad things happening. Failure leads to many bad things happening because power grids are centralised entities with production plants and many consumers. Destruction of the plants would cause blackouts. If this isn't the case, you don't have any ground to protect power grids.

2. If power grids are not centralised, very few bad things happen because failure doesn't affect that many people.

3. If spaceship propulsion equipment counts as a power grid, your definition of power grid includes decentralised things which aren't necessary to protect for the reasons which you gave above.

4. If that is the case, then your definition of power grid is too broad to meet the ends which you are trying to solve.

"Ok so, how do you want a hospital to get gas during war time for there generators?"

I would say that's quite irrelevant. The real question is whether a power grid is a basic necessity of life. It isn't. Therefore, it shouldn't be included in that provision.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

OOC: You are driving me fucking crazy.

Not my fault your arguments are not holding water.

OOC: You have yet to explain how a hospital is supposed to get gas in the middle of a war. Where gas might be a little tight.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"Read the draft. I never said centration. It counts as a power grid for the ship."

1. Power grids are important because failure would lead to lots of bad things happening. Failure leads to many bad things happening because power grids are centralised entities with production plants and many consumers. Destruction of the plants would cause blackouts. If this isn't the case, you don't have any ground to protect power grids.

2. If power grids are not centralised, very few bad things happen because failure doesn't affect that many people.

3. If spaceship propulsion equipment counts as a power grid, your definition of power grid includes decentralised things which aren't necessary to protect for the reasons which you gave above.

4. If that is the case, then your definition of power grid is too broad to meet the ends which you are trying to solve.

"Ok so, how do you want a hospital to get gas during war time for there generators?"

I would say that's quite irrelevant. The real question is whether a power grid is a basic necessity of life. It isn't. Therefore, it shouldn't be included in that provision.

"You just killed 100 people on life support who needed that power from the grid or gas. Congratulations. Do you feel like a hero yet?"

[Jarish Inyo]

Not my fault your arguments are not holding water.

OOC: You have yet to explain how a hospital is supposed to get gas in the middle of a war. Where gas might be a little tight.

Sheesh, you are dense. There are generators that can run off other things other then gas. And the can commandeer fuel like everyone else. And supplies still run during a war. And power can be generated by other means other then gas generators.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

OOC: You have yet to explain how a hospital is supposed to get gas in the middle of a war. Where gas might be a little tight.

Sheesh, you are dense. There are generators that can run off other things other then gas. And the can commandeer fuel like everyone else. And supplies still run during a war. And power can be generated by other means other then gas generators.

Really? What the hell did I do to you to be called 'Dense'?

Dick move.

[Imperium Anglorum]

I would say that's quite irrelevant. The real question is whether a power grid is a basic necessity of life. It isn't. Therefore, it shouldn't be included in that provision.

"You just killed 100 people on life support. Congratulations. Do you feel like a hero yet?"

That isn't the point of the question. The point of the question is to determine whether a power grid is a basic necessity of life. It isn't, because people lived long before power grids were invented, people today live without power grids, and people in the future will do so as well. You haven't shown that power grids are a basic necessity of life. And even if we are to accept that people are going to need life support: it couldn't be said that this would be a basic necessity of life, but rather, a necessity made possible by advanced interlocking chains of production and knowledge.

[Jarish Inyo]

Sheesh, you are dense. There are generators that can run off other things other then gas. And the can commandeer fuel like everyone else. And supplies still run during a war. And power can be generated by other means other then gas generators.

Really? What the hell did I do to you to be called 'Dense'?

Dick move.

You're dense because you can't imagine any other way but gas to power a hospital. Or maybe because you refuse to see that the power grid isn't a necessity for life. Even after being shown that it possible to live without.

[Farnhamia]

Really? What the hell did I do to you to be called 'Dense'?

Dick move.

You're dense because you can't imagine any other way but gas to power a hospital. Or maybe because you refuse to see that the power grid isn't a necessity for life. Even after being shown that it possible to live without.

Knock it off with the "you're dense" crap, now. I see another such exchange between the two of you and no one is going to be happy.

[Astrolinium]

Giovanni, having moved to a reclining chair upholstered in fine red velvet, sighs dreamily and says, "I remember my time in Tripoli... only me, a Klentian prostitute, and a makeshift spear -- a tree-branch, really -- to make do with. We had no power then, but by god, did we ever live. I still remember the way the sweat of her back smelled in the grass of the Savannah, the stars above and a lioness on the prowl nearby. God."

After a moment, the Ambassador shakes his head as if to recall his mind to the present reality, and then says, "Anyway, I'm afraid I have to add my voice to the camp of those who agree that electricity is not an absolute necessity. That said, it is certainly a, what was the phrase? 'Dick move?' It is certainly a dick move to shut down another nation's power grid with cyber attacks."

[Jarish Inyo]

Shutting down a nations power grid is the fastest way to slow down the enemies response time, if you are planning to invade. War is not meant to be nice.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"I see my attempts to convinces you have failed."

---New unofficial experimental draft---

International Cyber Weapons Restrictions Act
A resolution to record worldwide military spending on Weapons.
Category: Global Disarmament | Strength: Mild | Proposed by: The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp

The World Assembly,


CONFIRMING that Cyber Weapons are neither illegal nor immoral,


REAFFIRMS the right of member states to own and use cyber weapons in times of war,

UNDERSTANDING that many nations rely on computers for many basic needs, and

CONCERNED that member nations that heavily rely on computer systems in their everyday existence could be crippled by a cyberattack on facilities necessary for maintaining basic standards of life for civilian populations.

HEREBY

1. Calls for reparations from nations who use cyber weapons on facilities necessary for maintaining the basic standards of life for civilian populations to be payed to the victim party.
   
2. Defines "cyber weapons" as tools designed to be used for cyber attacks.
   
3. Defines 'facilities necessary for maintaining basic standards of life for civilian populations' as civilian hospitals and, water treatment plants.
   
   Co-author credit: Kitzerland

"Just a reminder, that until Ambassador Benjamin Bell approves of this draft, it is unofficial."

[Imperium Anglorum]

Shutting down a nations power grid is the fastest way to slow down the enemies response time, if you are planning to invade. War is not meant to be nice.

One could also argue that a short and very quickly executed war would be less harmful to civilian populations than one which lasts longer, because then, more people would be mobilised and more political capital sunk sent down the drain after a sunk costs argument. Therefore, protections would make wars worse, not better.

[Jarish Inyo]

Now, this is something I could agree too.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

"You just killed 100 people on life support. Congratulations. Do you feel like a hero yet?"

That isn't the point of the question. The point of the question is to determine whether a power grid is a basic necessity of life. It isn't, because people lived long before power grids were invented, people today live without power grids, and people in the future will do so as well. You haven't shown that power grids are a basic necessity of life. And even if we are to accept that people are going to need life support: it couldn't be said that this would be a basic necessity of life, but rather, a necessity made possible by advanced interlocking chains of production and knowledge.

OOC: I'm sorry about that comment. I shouldn't have said that, it was rude of me and I hope you can forgive me.

[Excidium Planetis]

OOC:
The following would have been Blackbourne's response, if this proposal didn't evolve faster than the Xenomorphs in Aliens.

It is now entirely irrelevant to the current draft.

"I don't understand how this doesn't explain it with extreme clarity. 'However if a rogue person(s) (EG: terrorists, AI, etc.) steal the cyber weapons the nation who built the cyber weapon will not be held accountable. '"

"Ok. A civilian computer from nation A gets attacked by 'TygerWare45.yf'. The civilian looks up what 'TygerWare45.yf' is and finds that nation B has that cyber weapon. Civilian takes his case to nation B's government and under these rules, Nation B pays the civilian for the damage."

"I never said anything about stealing cyber weapons. Terrorists, plotting some nefarious scheme, are attacked by our own cyber weapons, which were certainly not stolen. Now, we have to pay those terrorists, according to you.

"Your example is flawed. A civilian from nation A gets attacked by TygerWare45.yf, but because the information that was publicly released on TygerWare45.yf is not even enough for people to form a defense against it, it certainly isn't enough for a civilian to identify it when they were attacked. And even if the civilian were able to identify TygerWare45.yf, they look it up and find that not only does Nation B have it, but all of Nation B's allies, trading partners, digital security companies based in all those nations, and even Nation B's sworn enemy Nation A, the very nation that the Civilian lives in, because Nation A reverse engineered TygerWare45.yf, leaving the civilian with too many leads to get reparations."

[Araraukar]

Cyber Weapons Security Act

Category: International Security
Strength: Mild

The World Assembly,

Reaffirming the right of member states to own and use cyber weapons in times of war,

Concerned that member nations that heavily rely on computer systems in their everyday existence could be crippled by a cyberattack on civilian computer systems,

Fearing that improperly secured cyberweapons may end up in the hands of terrorists, or that improperly handled cyberweapons may end up damaging unintended targets,

Hereby,

1. Defines a "cyber attack", for the purposes of this resolution, as [THIS VOID NEEDS FILLING],

2. Defines a "cyber weapon" as a non-sapient computer program designed to be used for a cyber attack,

3. Requires that member nations in possession of cyber weapons must

1. To the best of their ability secure the location where cyber weapons are stored,
2. Have a proper training program for safe storage and handling of cyber weapons,
3. Refuse entering the training program for any person known to be a terrorist or known to having strong ties to any terrorist group,
4. Restrict access to the cyber weapons to staff who have successfully completed the training program,

4. Recommends that member nations keep records of the cyber weapons in their possession, those who have access to them, and of any attempts, whether authorized or not, of removing a cyber weapon from where it is stored.

Co-authored by Araraukar.

Written to act as a companion resolution to DND.

Change of category required because there will be increased military costs.

Dropped the extra emphasis stuff that would make IA stomp against this even if nobody campaigned for it after reaching quorum.

Dropped mention of Kitzerland as co-author, since they stated they didn't want to continue partaking the project.

Added myself as co-author, because this is a major rewrite and if Derpy is willing to work in this direction, I want to continue helping him.

Intentionally left "cyber weapon storage" undefined, as it can be a network, or a computer or a memory card or the physical location in which any of those are housed, or something else entirely.

Added "non-sapient" so that AI soldiers wouldn't be affected.

And since I've had someone try to steal one of my working drafts before, adding this: Only myself or The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp are allowed to use this draft for a proposal submission. That doesn't mean it was ready for submission, Derpy.

---

Derpy, I think this is the only way you can go forward and get towards the goal you want to reach. Let me know if you don't want to continue this project in this direction and I'll take my draft elsewhere.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

-snip-

I like it.

I think we should use it.

[Excidium Planetis]

"Now we have two different proposals that do not resemble each other."

[Araraukar]

"Now we have two different proposals that do not resemble each other."

OOC: We're working it out, give us a bit of time.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Cyber weapons are not physical objects.

[Aclion]

This void need filling

An attempt to compromise a computer system to cause data loss, corruption of software, damage to hardware gain unauthorized access or interfere with the systems normal operation? Could be better I know.

And I agree with Imperial Anglorum objection.

[Araraukar]

Cyber weapons are not physical objects.

Where are they referred to as such?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Cyber weapons are not physical objects.

"I do not believe the current draft says that they are."