[SUBMITTED] Tourist Assistance Bill

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: Believe me people will raise dumber shit than numbering systems as issues. Different numbering systems do occasionally pop up in history in RL. Base16 was employed in weights and measures in China, Base8 was used by some Native American tribes, Base5 was used by Aboriginal Australians. Heck Base60 was used by Sumerians.

Why are minutes and seconds in 60s? This is why. Because some people some 7000 years ago decided that it would be.

[Tinfect]

Base8 was used by some Native American tribes

OOC:
And suddenly, my bizarre obsession with Base 8 makes sense.
I'm actually Chukchansi, so not in that group, but shut up, it's funny. And if anyone looks that up on Wikipedia, it was far worse than some disenrolees storming the place. Those guys were employed by the (Illegal) Tribal Council, and they were there to destroy records in the casino that incriminated said tribal council. They also firebombed tribal elders in the tribal records building. Long story.
IC:

1) Mandates that all member states adopt a universal (WA wide) single number to allow citizens and visitors to contact the emergency services,

"The Imperium has maintained a single method of doing this since its inception. We see little reason to alter a system that has existed for centuries, and has become ingrained in the public consciousness, so as to accommodate foreigners that fail to properly prepare themselves, regardless of the Imperium's closed borders."

2) Mandates that all member states implement an automated relay system to forward all calls made to the new number on to the existing emergency services number for the given nation/world

"Alternatively, publicize the existing method as usual, and avoid wasting the resources and effort to replicate and redirect existing systems."

"Secondly - it may not have escaped your notice that I have missed out one very important point in this proposal, and that is what the new single number is to be. Please be assured this is not an oversight on my part.
Instead I wanted to make this part of the debate - given that every country here present will have, or at least potentially will have, a different number, and that what is the emergency number in one country might be the number for directory enquiries in another country, I thought it best that we discuss what the number should be, rather than Calladan arbitrarily imposing it upon the entirity of the WA."

"The Imperium proposes that the adopted method be Internal Security Civilian Report Network Flare, as utilized by the Imperium. It immediately transmits positioning information, and any available information provided with the report, or available to Internal Security through other means to Internal Security personnel within the area so as to maximize response potential, and reduce response times. All other methods have proven themselves inferior, and we will accept no others."

My reasons for suggestion 909 are four fold - firstly, it is short. Secondly, it is easy to remember. Thirdly it is not that easy to dial by accident.

"Not nearly so as the Imperial Internal Security Civilian Report Network. Internal Security is alerted immediately, details of the report can be provided after the alert is made. Secondly, it can be accessed from any device capable of interfacing with Imperial networks. Being in the Imperium, that is all of them. And, assuming one can read, it is not easily mistaken for anything else.

Of course, this ignores that no Member-States beyond the Imperium have access to the appropriate Imperial infrastructure to support such a thing, Local law-enforcement is likely unable to support such technologies, the degree of integration is entirely nonexistent in many member-states in which basic communications technologies remain rare, or have yet to develop networks capable of global positioning and operation. But of course, this method is by far superior, and should therefore be implemented in all Member-States post-haste.

Of course, the Imperium makes this statement in little seriousness; merely to demonstrate that perhaps this 'one-size-fits-all', as the phrase goes, legislation, is perhaps not so universal as you seem to believe. "

[Separatist Peoples]

As I said - the existing emergency services number is already just a forwarding number. Adding another number to that cannot possibly be that complex.

OOC: It is not that simple to simply forward a number into as complex and secure a system as the 911 dispatch.

Which is why I opened the subject of the number up to debate. While it might seem like I am a dreamer, I do not find it beyond reason that we can find a single number, two or three digits long, that is not used as part of an existing area code in any country.

"There are tens of thousands of members. Some of us are going to be impacted. Some of us will be impacted more greatly than others. How do you, the author and sole individual with the power to address it, intend to fix that? You can keep dreaming, your Excellency, because you are the only one."

As for miss-dials - that, I accept, may be a problem, but I am confident we can find a way round that given time to work on the problem. One idea that springs to mind (and I admit this is being made up as I go along, with no idea how feasible it is, so there might be a lack of reality in this) is to prefix the number with a # or *. Or to find a number that does not fall into any version of any area code.

"The addition of an alphanumeric symbol would likely crash those systems without alphanumeric symbols."

Or - potentially - the draft could be adjusted so that the first phase of the proposal sees a working group put together from a number of countries to solve this problem and find an acceptable number that will reduce if not remove this problem.

"That would be in breach of the World Assembly's rule, your Excellency."

When I go abroad I do tend to try to learn things about the nation I am visiting, but sometimes things fall through the cracks. And I think most people would agree that you tend to forget things, or at least struggle to remember things, when you are under pressure. Such as when you are in a crisis or emergency situation.

"I do not contend that one forgets things in a crisis. I contend that it is the duty of the state to address that failure."

And - for an example as to why this might be of benefit to more than just a few imprudent foreigners, I give you this example :-

Before My Tri-Arch came to power, she was on holiday in Genovia. She was walking down a street late at night when she saw an apartment block on fire. No one else was around, and the fire was burning away quite merrily. So she pulled out her phone and called 113 (because that was the number she knew for emergency services). Which turned out to be Genovian directory enquiries.

They helpfully connected her to the fire brigade, who then sent out a response team and the fire was put out, with no loss of life (although most of the apartment block was a total write off) and only a few injured.

"This is purely anecdotal and valueless as an argument, ambassador. Not everybody struggles thus."

Now imagine if 113 was not directory inquiries, but a dead-end. Imagine if My Tri-Arch had had to dig around in her handbag for the number for Genovian emergency services and the fire had gone on for a few more minutes before she had found the number - or she hadn't been able to find it and had to resort to banging on doors to wake up the locals to get their attention to get someone else to call.

"Your fire brigade must operate, from dispatch to arrival, in a matter of less than ten minutes if your story is to be believed, ambassador. While I commend the Genovian firefighter's rapid response, us mere mortals struggle with more realistic parameters."

Imagine the number of dead and injured Genovian citizens there could have been then.

"Your excellency, my concern is for inconvenienced Separatists, not dead Genovians."

I put it to the assembled delegates that making it as easy as possible for every citizen of The WA to contact the emergency services of whatever nation they are in is in the best interests of every member state and every citizen who dwells therein.

"We disagree. It is the duty of the World Assembly to, generally, protect the individual from the malice or even apathy of the state. It is not the place of the World Assembly to select the least efficient option to this end. In fact, the World Assembly's constituents historically prefer the least invasive methodology. As do I.

"I am tasked with representing the C.D.S.P.'s interests at the international level, ambassador, and the C.D.S.P. holds inconvenience of it's citizens as a whole as a much greater issue than the risk to life and limb of a foreign, transient population that represents one eight hundred-thousandth of our population. Your proposal would put our citizens at financial disadvantage and, far worse, compound our system with complexities that would cost Separatist lives for a minuscule fraction of foreigners.

"Public policy cannot always protect everybody. Some people get left behind. We would prefer to minimize that number and ensure it falls on a demographic that isn't of C.D.S.P. citizenship. I remain opposed."

[Calladan]

Of course, the Imperium makes this statement in little seriousness; merely to demonstrate that perhaps this 'one-size-fits-all', as the phrase goes, legislation, is perhaps not so universal as you seem to believe. "

When drafting this, I realised that some nations might have neither a nation wide emergency services system (or at least not have one number for the entire nation) or have a different method that isn't a dial system, but (and I know I was risking The Gods of Optionality in saying this) I thought it would apply to most nations and those nations where it didn't apply would be able to adapt it for it to work.

However if The GOO are going to make it an issue then - along with the complaints that this will lead to a rise in wrong numbers, that it will require taxing nations for no apparent gain to their citizens and that it will cause confusion and chaos throughout The WA - I think it will more or less cause the draft to be sunk before it even leaves the dock (to use an entirely inappropriate metaphor ).

[Calladan]

As I said - the existing emergency services number is already just a forwarding number. Adding another number to that cannot possibly be that complex.

OOC: It is not that simple to simply forward a number into as complex and secure a system as the 911 dispatch.

The 112 number functions in parts of America and another 111 countries. So it must be possible

Imagine the number of dead and injured Genovian citizens there could have been then.

"Your excellency, my concern is for inconvenienced Separatists, not dead Genovians."

Then imagine she had been in your nation instead of in Genovia.

"We disagree. It is the duty of the World Assembly to, generally, protect the individual from the malice or even apathy of the state.

If that were truly the case, why does The WA permit fascist and dictatorial states to exist and operate within The WA? Why does The WA permit governments that go out of their way to oppress and abuse their citizens to be a part of this august organisation? If The WA is their to protect the citizens from the malice of the governments, then surely The WA should clamp down on all malicious forms of government and eject them at once.

Since - historically - The WA has been reluctant to do this, I can only assume The WA does not exist for that purpose.

"I am tasked with representing the C.D.S.P.'s interests at the international level, ambassador, and the C.D.S.P. holds inconvenience of it's citizens as a whole as a much greater issue than the risk to life and limb of a foreign, transient population that represents one eight hundred-thousandth of our population. Your proposal would put our citizens at financial disadvantage and, far worse, compound our system with complexities that would cost Separatist lives for a minuscule fraction of foreigners.

I am tasked with representing Calladan and its citizens and those within the borders who are under the protection and care - however temporary - of our government. To that end, I believe we are required to endeavour to do the best we can for them. And in this instance, I believe that the addition of one more number to the emergency services mapping code would cost very little and would benefit (or at least provide a huge potential benefit) to a large number of people.

Apparently we disagree on this matter, but isn't that what this chamber, this forum is for? Voicing views, debating opinions and - in the end - letting the body of The WA decide?

"Public policy cannot always protect everybody. Some people get left behind. We would prefer to minimize that number and ensure it falls on a demographic that isn't of C.D.S.P. citizenship. I remain opposed."

No, but we can try to protect as many as we can, and leave as few behind as we may. And - while you might dismiss the example as anecdotal evidence - we take it as an object lesson as to how the actions of strangers (or people who are not citizens of Calladan) can have a HUGE impact on the lives of people who are citizens of Calladan, and as such we should not dismiss them just because they aren't technically "our people".

If they are in our jurisdiction, we believe we have a duty of care.

[Separatist Peoples]

ooc: The 112 number functions in parts of America and another 111 countries. So it must be possible

OOC: Possible, yes. Inexpensive or easy? Not necessarily.

Then imagine she had been in your nation instead of in Genovia.

"That depends, considering the fire department's response time varies from city to city and county to county. In some rural areas, its as long as forty-five minutes. What you more likely mean to do is evoke an emotional response that will convince me. I, however, recognize the reality of the situation: it is incredibly unlikely that the two minutes, tops, it would take an individual who knows they are in a different country to remember the emergency information would make any real difference, especially in an age of automated fire alarms and widespread personal cellular devices, where anybody in the building could easily have made the call themselves."

If that were truly the case, why does The WA permit fascist and dictatorial states to exist and operate within The WA?

"It is explicitly against the procedural rules of the World Assembly to eject autocratic states."

Why does The WA permit governments that go out of their way to oppress and abuse their citizens to be a part of this august organisation?

"It generally doesn't, as your Excellency will note by reading the extant legislation."

If The WA is their to protect the citizens from the malice of the governments, then surely The WA should clamp down on all malicious forms of government and eject them at once.

Since - historically - The WA has been reluctant to do this, I can only assume The WA does not exist for that purpose.

"I suppose we can sweep the entire Human Rights category under the rug, then, your Excellency? The WA is unable, as a matter of procedure, to accomplish your first charge, and your second ignores established fact."

I am tasked with representing Calladan and its citizens and those within the borders who are under the protection and care - however temporary - of our government. To that end, I believe we are required to endeavour to do the best we can for them. And in this instance, I believe that the addition of one more number to the emergency services mapping code would cost very little and would benefit (or at least provide a huge potential benefit) to a large number of people.

"You are welcome, O Shepherd, to tend to your Flock...within your own borders. We will tend Ours in the way we see fit."

Apparently we disagree on this matter, but isn't that what this chamber, this forum is for? Voicing views, debating opinions and - in the end - letting the body of The WA decide?

"Of course. That is what we are doing. What, exactly, is your point, your Excellency?"

No, but we can try to protect as many as we can, and leave as few behind as we may.

"We already do. Unnecessary expenditure would reduce our capacity to do so."

And - while you might dismiss the example as anecdotal evidence - we take it as an object lesson as to how the actions of strangers (or people who are not citizens of Calladan) can have a HUGE impact on the lives of people who are citizens of Calladan, and as such we should not dismiss them just because they aren't technically "our people".

If they are in our jurisdiction, we believe we have a duty of care.

"Very Peace, Love and Dope, your Excellency, but that is not compelling reason. Travelers should educate themselves before traveling abroad. Their prudence would be a minimal imposition on their time while providing a very large preventative benefit that would not require the state to divert capital from elsewhere. Imprudence should not be addressed with wasteful spending, as it establishes a precedent of nannying by the government.

"If foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit Calladan with our complements. Kindly, Ambassador McGill, don't try to spoon-feed us your saccharine worldview. We disagree."

[States of Glory WA Office]

Cogoria will support this endeavour. However we would prefer the number 114 as the thumb of most individuals (except the left handed) rests naturally above the 1 key, while the 4 is merely to reduce accidental dials.

Neville: We will oppose all attempts to allow discrimination against us southpaws. In any case, I'm pretty sure that the Charter of Civil Rights covers that particular characteristic.

Fairburn: Solution: Mandate that every nation teaches ambidexterity to its citizens.

Neville: That discriminates against species in which only one of the hands is functional.

Fairburn: Darn it.

[Calladan]

"If foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit Calladan with our complements. Kindly, Ambassador McGill, don't try to spoon-feed us your saccharine worldview. We disagree."

And if foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit you with our compliments - however we will stick to our saccarine approach, as we have found in the past that a cynical, only looking out for ourselves view eventually leaves us isolated, alone and miserable - a place we do not care to be again.

[Tinfect]

I thought it would apply to most nations and those nations where it didn't apply would be able to adapt it for it to work.

"Certainly not when you use specific terminology relating to a system, Ambassador."

However if The GOO are going to make it an issue then - along with the complaints that this will lead to a rise in wrong numbers, that it will require taxing nations for no apparent gain to their citizens and that it will cause confusion and chaos throughout The WA - I think it will more or less cause the draft to be sunk before it even leaves the dock (to use an entirely inappropriate metaphor ).

"No secretariat laws are being violated in this draft, to my knowledge, Ambassador, though we certainly agree that the draft is best 'sunk at the dock', to use your words. "

Then imagine she had been in your nation instead of in Genovia.

"Well, the Imperium ensures that its structures are designed so as to be largely inflammable. No fire would be so great that it could not be easily removed and most damage averted, unless, of course, the source of the fire is particularly non-conventional, at which point, the superior option is planetary evacuation, not attempted management of the blaze. Regardless, Internal Security Personnel are on constant patrol within the Imperium; its numbers alone outweigh the populations of entire continents in lesser nations.* It would not be of great difficulty for Imperial Personnel to respond to any removable conflagration, and would, in any case, be alerted by automated systems."

If that were truly the case, why does The WA permit fascist and dictatorial states to exist and operate within The WA?

"The Imperium wishes to note that Dictatorial States are not inherently malicious. The Imperium, of course, would argue that 'representative' systems are by far the more unjust, inciting apathy and degeneracy within their citizens, all while claiming to serve their best interests, while the highest scramble to cement their station."

No, but we can try to protect as many as we can, and leave as few behind as we may. And - while you might dismiss the example as anecdotal evidence - we take it as an object lesson as to how the actions of strangers (or people who are not citizens of Calladan) can have a HUGE impact on the lives of people who are citizens of Calladan, and as such we should not dismiss them just because they aren't technically "our people".

"I am certain your Citizens appreciate that their Government would place the wellbeing of foreigners above their own people."

If they are in our jurisdiction, we believe we have a duty of care.

"No more so than a Non-Citizen has the duties of a Citizen."

And if foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit you with our compliments - however we will stick to our saccarine approach, as we have found in the past that a cynical, only looking out for ourselves view eventually leaves us isolated, alone and miserable - a place we do not care to be again.

"The Imperium assures you, Isolation is by no means miserable. Of course, should your Government wish to join us in it... as much as I'd like to offer kind words, your people remain primitive and unimportant, the Imperium would continue to ignore most dealings of them."

OOC:
*I've misplaced the .txt where I actually did the math on this, but the number was somewhere between 3, and 5 billion (In Non-Naval Military Roles Only). This isn't important, I just felt like mentioning it.

[Calladan]

I thought it would apply to most nations and those nations where it didn't apply would be able to adapt it for it to work.

"Certainly not when you use specific terminology relating to a system, Ambassador."

I suppose that is true - but (in my head at least) that is one of those things that would have been fixed in later drafts with the assistance of my fellow representatives (and - on a related note - it turns out finding a single word to encompass everybody who sits in this Chamber is harder than you might think. Not everyone is an Ambassador such as I, not everyone is a delegate, not everyone is a representative and so on and so on. And sometimes if you use the wrong word, you can cause offense without realising it and start a war of words the likes of which even the gods have never seen. That is should you believe in the gods, which is another matter entirely. But I am getting a little off topic here....)

However if The GOO are going to make it an issue then - along with the complaints that this will lead to a rise in wrong numbers, that it will require taxing nations for no apparent gain to their citizens and that it will cause confusion and chaos throughout The WA - I think it will more or less cause the draft to be sunk before it even leaves the dock (to use an entirely inappropriate metaphor ).

"No secretariat laws are being violated in this draft, to my knowledge, Ambassador, though we certainly agree that the draft is best 'sunk at the dock', to use your words. "

I still have some hope that it might be rescuable (rather than salvageable, which suggests it was sunk) - while the Amb. Bell and I clearly disagree on quite a lot of things, there was an idea floated by him and a few others that might do as a substitute, though it would require rewriting most of this draft.

Then imagine she had been in your nation instead of in Genovia.

"Well, the Imperium ensures that its structures are designed so as to be largely inflammable. No fire would be so great that it could not be easily removed and most damage averted, unless, of course, the source of the fire is particularly non-conventional, at which point, the superior option is planetary evacuation, not attempted management of the blaze. Regardless, Internal Security Personnel are on constant patrol within the Imperium; its numbers alone outweigh the populations of entire continents in lesser nations.* It would not be of great difficulty for Imperial Personnel to respond to any removable conflagration, and would, in any case, be alerted by automated systems."

With all due respect to everyone else in this Chamber, I am starting to think metaphor, story telling and analogies are a lost art, and that I should really not attempt them again.

If that were truly the case, why does The WA permit fascist and dictatorial states to exist and operate within The WA?

"The Imperium wishes to note that Dictatorial States are not inherently malicious. The Imperium, of course, would argue that 'representative' systems are by far the more unjust, inciting apathy and degeneracy within their citizens, all while claiming to serve their best interests, while the highest scramble to cement their station."

I think this is one of those situations where we can only agree to disagree and that if we get any further into the discussion, it will either end badly or go on forever

No, but we can try to protect as many as we can, and leave as few behind as we may. And - while you might dismiss the example as anecdotal evidence - we take it as an object lesson as to how the actions of strangers (or people who are not citizens of Calladan) can have a HUGE impact on the lives of people who are citizens of Calladan, and as such we should not dismiss them just because they aren't technically "our people".

"I am certain your Citizens appreciate that their Government would place the wellbeing of foreigners above their own people."

I never said "above" - I am pretty sure that I never said that. I was merely endeavouring to point out that...... oh never mind. This is another one of those things where I am confident that My Tri-Arch and my government have the right approach for my country, and given that the people of my country have yet to rebel or put our heads on pikes outside The DHC, they probably agree. As for the rest of the known universe - if they want to run their countries a different way, IDIC.

If they are in our jurisdiction, we believe we have a duty of care.

"No more so than a Non-Citizen has the duties of a Citizen."

Would that not depend on your perspective? While non-citizens do not have some of the rights of citizens, they are expected to abide by the laws of Calladan, and respect the traditions and culture of Calladan even if they do not take part in it themselves - just like every citizen of Calladan does. If a Calladanian came to your country (world? planet? My apologies for not knowing specifically!), would you expect them to abide by Calladanian law or your law? Because if you would expect them to abide by your laws then - to some degree then they have - at least - THOSE duties of a citizen, do they not?

And if foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit you with our compliments - however we will stick to our saccarine approach, as we have found in the past that a cynical, only looking out for ourselves view eventually leaves us isolated, alone and miserable - a place we do not care to be again.

"The Imperium assures you, Isolation is by no means miserable. Of course, should your Government wish to join us in it... as much as I'd like to offer kind words, your people remain primitive and unimportant, the Imperium would continue to ignore most dealings of them."

(smile) As I said, we have tried isolation, and it just wasn't for us. So with all due respect I think we will carry on the way we are for now - happy, carefree, and ambling along like happy, carefree puppies.

[Merni]

Cogoria will support this endeavour. However we would prefer the number 114 as the thumb of most individuals (except the left handed) rests naturally above the 1 key, while the 4 is merely to reduce accidental dials.

Neville: We will oppose all attempts to allow discrimination against us southpaws. In any case, I'm pretty sure that the Charter of Civil Rights covers that particular characteristic.

[...]

OOC:
Hear, hear!

What about nations which do not have a telephone system? You cannot assume a tech level which applies to all nations.

And what emergency could occur where there is no citizen of the land around and a tourist is the only person who can dial an emergency service? This would probably be in a rural area, where in any case the response times are very long, and the tourist would have time to run to the nearest settlement to dial an emergency service. In any case, in such a scenario, there probably will not be mobile phone signal, and therefore the above would be the only option. Just my 2p.

[Calladan]

What about nations which do not have a telephone system? You cannot assume a tech level which applies to all nations.

That is a good question - but doesn't that lead to a question about optionality vs inability to comply due to irrelevance? I might take that up in the Q&A thread, if that's okay?

And what emergency could occur where there is no citizen of the land around and a tourist is the only person who can dial an emergency service? This would probably be in a rural area, where in any case the response times are very long, and the tourist would have time to run to the nearest settlement to dial an emergency service. In any case, in such a scenario, there probably will not be mobile phone signal, and therefore the above would be the only option. Just my 2p.

That example is pretty much out of the scope of this proposal I am afraid - while a universal/standard number would deal with most things, there are times that it is not going to help and those are pretty much out of my hands. I am just trying to deal with the more common instances - that if there was a single number, right across The WA that everybody knew - it would be easier to remember than having to learn/memorise thousands of different numbers and try to remember which one applies where.

[Separatist Peoples]

With all due respect to everyone else in this Chamber, I am starting to think metaphor, story telling and analogies are a lost art, and that I should really not attempt them again.

"Attacking analogies as literal has become an unfortunate fad in these halls, ambassador. You're quite right that the art of metaphor is struggling through a gasping death."

As for the rest of the known universe - if they want to run their countries a different way, IDIC.

"Then let us run our countries in a different way."

Would that not depend on your perspective? While non-citizens do not have some of the rights of citizens, they are expected to abide by the laws of Calladan, and respect the traditions and culture of Calladan even if they do not take part in it themselves - just like every citizen of Calladan does. If a Calladanian came to your country (world? planet? My apologies for not knowing specifically!), would you expect them to abide by Calladanian law or your law? Because if you would expect them to abide by your laws then - to some degree then they have - at least - THOSE duties of a citizen, do they not?

"It is likely possible that citizens in the Imperium, like the citizens in the C.D.S.P., do not have a legal obligation to report an incident. That could be the source of your disagreement."

(smile) As I said, we have tried isolation, and it just wasn't for us. So with all due respect I think we will carry on the way we are for now - happy, carefree, and ambling along like happy, carefree puppies.

"Puppies are shockingly easy prey for wolves."

And if foreign citizens dislike our approach and prefer yours, they can visit you with our compliments - however we will stick to our saccarine approach, as we have found in the past that a cynical, only looking out for ourselves view eventually leaves us isolated, alone and miserable - a place we do not care to be again.

"Nobody said anything about being alone, your Excellency. I am speaking of a refusal to coddle citizens and shield them from their own responsibility."

[National Socialist Republic of Poland]

Personally I believe that this is a restriction of member nations' rights. What if the nation gives corporations privileges? For example, one society could have a private police force, and that country could guarantee the right for that company to set an emergency number. I do not believe that the World Assembly has jurisdiction over corporations. Also, it could be worded better, but I understand that it is a very rough draft as you said. I don't think there is anything that goes against the rules. You might want to add an exception for private emergency response services, but that isn't really what the act hopes to accomplish, so I won't hold it against you.

[Calladan]

Personally I believe that this is a restriction of member nations' rights. What if the nation gives corporations privileges? For example, one society could have a private police force, and that country could guarantee the right for that company to set an emergency number. I do not believe that the World Assembly has jurisdiction over corporations. Also, it could be worded better, but I understand that it is a very rough draft as you said. I don't think there is anything that goes against the rules. You might want to add an exception for private emergency response services, but that isn't really what the act hopes to accomplish, so I won't hold it against you.

If it is a private force, surely - by definition - the general public would not have access to the number. And so visitors to the country would probably not have access to the number. So this proposal would not relate to that situation at all - this is just for the generic, national emergency services number.

(Calladan's nuclear power stations have specific needs during emergencies and so have their own emergency response teams which have their own numbers on which they can be called. The general public do not know these numbers because - quite honestly - they do not NEED to know these numbers. But 113 - the number for fire, police, ambulance etc - is known throughout the country because everyone may have a need to know it at some point in their life).

And while I can't say for certain one way or the other, I think The WA has passed enough legislation on health and safety laws to say that it does have some level of jurisdiction over corporations and the way they conduct themselves.

[Calladan]

What about nations which do not have a telephone system? You cannot assume a tech level which applies to all nations.

I found the post/quote I was looking for --

You can't make proposals optional. Nations that don't have the feature you're legislating on just ignore it. The standard example is WA marine laws in a landlocked nation.

This doesn't nullify the mandatory aspect. The laws are still there, and WA law still applies to all WA members. Whether your nation can or can't obey them, like whether it will or won't obey them, is RP.

So it would appear that this proposal would apply, and that those nations without either a telephone system or a national unified emergency services number would be exempt without the proposal being illegal.

Which (give how may other objections people have raised!!) is nice to know

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: Just my 2p.

OOC: Who you gonna call?

[Merni]

OOC: Just my 2p.

OOC: Who you gonna call?

OOC: The Merni Emergency Service, the number to call whom, incidentally, consists of only 2 digits. (It's 11) And this does not present a problem of misdialling because most (92%) of our non-mobile telephones are rotary dial ones.

[Calladan]

OOC: Just my 2p.

OOC: Who you gonna call?

(ooc - :smirk:)

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: Who you gonna call?

OOC: The Merni Emergency Service, the number to call whom, incidentally, consists of only 2 digits. (It's 11) And this does not present a problem of misdialling because most (92%) of our non-mobile telephones are rotary dial ones.

OOC: You charge people two pence to call the emergency services?! I'd assume that you'd therefore have a ton of money to spend, but since 92% of your telephones use a rotary dial, I'm wondering where all that money is going.

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: The Merni Emergency Service, the number to call whom, incidentally, consists of only 2 digits. (It's 11) And this does not present a problem of misdialling because most (92%) of our non-mobile telephones are rotary dial ones.

OOC: You charge people two pence to call the emergency services?! I'd assume that you'd therefore have a ton of money to spend, but since 92% of your telephones use a rotary dial, I'm wondering where all that money is going.

OOC: ... 2p is an expression.

[States of Glory WA Office]

OOC: You charge people two pence to call the emergency services?! I'd assume that you'd therefore have a ton of money to spend, but since 92% of your telephones use a rotary dial, I'm wondering where all that money is going.

OOC: ... 2p is an expression.

OOC: ...It was a joke. Merni used that expression and the topic was phone calls, so I made a phone bill joke while simultaneously referencing Ghostbusters. It's just that Merni's reply fell flat and I responded to it.

[Bears Armed]

If you're wondering about category. ask yourself these questions: (a) is it restricting or taking away someone's rights? Based on what you've got, doesn't look like it. (b) is this going to improve individual welfare or social welfare? It might, depending on how it's ultimately worded, since it is about ease of access. I wouldn't say 'Human Rights' because it isn't giving an individual rights; it's establishing a 'social service'.
As for strength, 'Mild' is the lowest option.

OOC: I think that there was a 'historical' resolution on this subject, and presumably whichever category was used there would still be considered 'legal' now: Unfortunately I don't have enough time available to search through the list until I find it...

"I suppose this assumes that nations have adopted a numeric,"

Or even a base10 numeric system. There is no reason why base8 and others should be excluded.

"I'm not sure hwether you were referring to urrs in particular, but as the ambassador of a nation that does use base-eight rather than base-ten (in most cases, anyhows...) I thank you for pointing this out."

Although I can not believe people can be offended by this, I apologise for offending nations who use a differing numbering system than Calladan.

OOC: Believe me people will raise dumber shit than numbering systems as issues. Different numbering systems do occasionally pop up in history in RL. Base16 was employed in weights and measures in China, Base8 was used by some Native American tribes, Base5 was used by Aboriginal Australians. Heck Base60 was used by Sumerians.

OOC: And there are also traces of base12 in some languages (e.g. the use of dozens & grosses in English), and of base20 in at least French (where 80 is called "quatre-vingts", i.e. 'four-twenties'...).
I hadn't already known that about Base8 being used by some Native American tribes (Which ones, if you can remember?), but am pleased to learn that as there were supposed to be some [coincidental, IC] cultural similarities between my Bears and [some] Native American groups.

""Now, I had a thought about that dear, that may be more accommodating to both of your concerns -- although it will fundamentally change your proposal, so make of it what you will. Why not simply mandate that member nations display their emergency services number on their telephones? Whether it is engraved, printed, or otherwise marked is inconsequential as long as it clearly and easily found on the phone itself. I suppose, dear, that you might wish to include a clause standardizing where that number is preferably displayed."

"Ayyuh, that would work for urrs."

"Well, the Imperium ensures that its structures are designed so as to be largely inflammable.

OOC; that word, it does not mean what you seem to think that it means. Ah, the wonders of the English language…
^_^


(OOC; the IC sections of this post were spoken by Artorrios o SouthWoods.)

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

Teran Saber: "How would this interact with nations that no longer use relay-based phone systems and find the technology to be obsolete? Furthermore, what about nations that haven't developed the necessary technology and infrastructure to being with?"

[Calladan]

Teran Saber: "How would this interact with nations that no longer use relay-based phone systems and find the technology to be obsolete? Furthermore, what about nations that haven't developed the necessary technology and infrastructure to being with?"

For nations that do not have national phone systems (or a single emergency services system) it would not apply and they can probably ignore it (as was mentioned previously).

For nations that are far in advance of phone systems, then whatever they use for national communication would still require some form of identification method to ensure you are talking to the right person, yes? Otherwise how would you know to whom you are connecting when you talk? And whatever method is used to ensure you connect to the right person should be capable of adapting to fit this extra piece of information in, especially if it is so advanced.