Should the WA be restarted? (OOC discussion)

[Kaboomlandia]

But in real life if you don't support (endorse) the candidate (Delegates can't be elected beyond their region, so the simile doesn't quite work) that your neighbourhood (region) has decided to rally behind, they can't kick you out of the neighbourhood. Gameside that can very well happen, and indeed does happen. I don't pay much attention to regional politics as I don't care about that part of the game, but there's been enough threatening region-wide TGs flying around for me to be aware of it.

To make a truly representative democracy, don't make endorsements count just for Delegates, but for everyone!

If you did that, the GCRs would control the WA entirely. At the moment, they just act as a counterweight that affects the initial swing. At the end of the day, the voters outweigh the delegates by a metric fuckton. That would go away when you consider that TNP's entire oligarchy of established regional officers all have upwards of 300 votes apiece. And that's just TNP.

Yeah, we might as well rename it the "TNP-and-Euro" Assembly.

EDIT: Explanation: Euro has 8 people with over 250 endorsements (including Mouse), 54 with over 100, and an uncountable amount of people over 50.

[Imperium Anglorum]

If you did that, the GCRs would control the WA entirely. At the moment, they just act as a counterweight that affects the initial swing. At the end of the day, the voters outweigh the delegates by a metric fuckton. That would go away when you consider that TNP's entire oligarchy of established regional officers all have upwards of 300 votes apiece. And that's just TNP.

Yeah, we might as well rename it the "TNP-and-Euro" Assembly.

EDIT: Explanation: Euro has 8 people with over 250 endorsements (including Mouse), 54 with over 100, and an uncountable amount of people over 50.

You've forgotten 10000 Islands, which has a more powerful number of high-endorsement nations.

[Excidium Planetis]

...what's that in Imperials?

Its generally used to imply superlative quantity with the Metric standard included to emphasise this point. The inclusion of the term is, however, fundamentally a misuse of that standard, as the Imperial Fuckton (2000 Imperial Fuckpounds) denotes a slightly greater measure of fuckweight within Earth's gravitational pull than does the Metric Fuckton (1000 Metric Fuckilograms).

That's not actually true. 1000 Metric f***kilograms = 2205 f***pounds, slightly more than an Imperial f***ton.

[Bears Armed]

Its generally used to imply superlative quantity with the Metric standard included to emphasise this point. The inclusion of the term is, however, fundamentally a misuse of that standard, as the Imperial Fuckton (2000 Imperial Fuckpounds) denotes a slightly greater measure of fuckweight within Earth's gravitational pull than does the Metric Fuckton (1000 Metric Fuckilograms).

That's not actually true. 1000 Metric f***kilograms = 2205 f***pounds, slightly more than an Imperial f***ton.

That's only the "short" Imperial F***ton, or 'American F***ton': The proper 'Imperial F***ton' is the "long" version (as traditionally used in the UK), which consists of 2'240 F***pounds...

[Separatist Peoples]

That's not actually true. 1000 Metric f***kilograms = 2205 f***pounds, slightly more than an Imperial f***ton.

That's only the "short" Imperial F***ton, or 'American F***ton': The proper 'Imperial F***ton' is the "long" version (as traditionally used in the UK), which consists of 2'240 F***pounds...

That's assuming fucktons and regular tons are analogous...A fuckpound and a regular pound are measured differently, after all.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

To make WA a truly representative democracy, don't make endorsements count just for Delegates, but for everyone! EDIT: Would also make regional politics matter more, since if every WA nation in a region endorsed everyone else, the Delegate position might not be as stable as it has been. But I digress...

I'm sorry, who was it who didn't want to discuss gameside issues here? This has become a particularly annoying threadjack. Take your Technical suggestions to Technical.

[Sandaoguo]

Kenny, if you can point me to a resolution you've written in that time, I'll admit a mistake there.

As for Flib, Fris, CR, Quod... You have to make "active" an incredibly loose term for that to be true at all.


*Tapatalk is awesome*

Your argument's been gutted, don't dig yourself further in with pointless dithering over whether someone is truly "active" or not. If I and several other GA players have already pledged to resubmit our work without much drafting/revision, then it's not a reset so much as it is a rerun marathon. Even Fris was compelled to resubmit Rights and Duties after the last reset, and he hadn't been involved in legislating for at least four years.

Old players could also just... not. If your main argument against a reset is that you don't want to have to resubmit all the old proposal, then don't.

Also, still waiting on all those proposals currently in queue by all these active old players. You haven't authored many proposals since we moved to these forums in 2009.

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

Searched under all my puppets, did you?

[Unibot III]

Just reposting this because it got caught up in the thread-jack and it's relevant -

As someone who joined the WA right after its creation, all I will say is it's a double-edged sword: with the resolutions cleared, it gave some room for innovation, cultural change, early movers - but the brunt of that pioneering was done by veteran players who were quite domineering. Because it was a change that was forced upon them, I think the surviving vets got pretty domineering, territorial, more conservative because they felt if they let little things go, their game was going to be threatened. It made for a nasty playing environment because we were at our throats - and so I enjoyed pioneering in the SC more because it didn't have the generational baggage. I was more free to do the early moving in the SC now that others assume a fresh new GA would offer to future players.

All I'm saying is, the generation that came after me - the Sciongrad's and Wrapper's - they're the people who will be most affected by a change like this, and if they feel like this move was forced upon them by newbies and retirees, they'll take it out on future players - it could cause another big rift and end up not inspiring any of the opportunities for newer players that's been promised.

As much as I'd like to see GA#2 off the books.

[John Turner]

Your argument's been gutted, don't dig yourself further in with pointless dithering over whether someone is truly "active" or not. If I and several other GA players have already pledged to resubmit our work without much drafting/revision, then it's not a reset so much as it is a rerun marathon. Even Fris was compelled to resubmit Rights and Duties after the last reset, and he hadn't been involved in legislating for at least four years.

Old players could also just... not. If your main argument against a reset is that you don't want to have to resubmit all the old proposal, then don't.

Also, still waiting on all those proposals currently in queue by all these active old players. You haven't authored many proposals since we moved to these forums in 2009.

Why the fuck wouldn't we? I personally don't just author proposals for shits and giggles. I author them, because I want to see them on the books. If we reset the WA, would it not make sense that I would still want to see my resolutions on the books?

[Losthaven]

I would like to see resolutions sun-set naturally. Like an auto repeal and a move to "historical resolution" after 2 years on the books, perhaps with an option that the resolution be voted on again and "re-enacted." That would seem to be a compromise between the goals of stimulating new player activity and protecting/preserving the accomplishments from the before time, back in the long long ago.

I know this is a mechanics request and would take coding. But I imagine so would a WA "reset".

[Araraukar]

I'm sorry, who was it who didn't want to discuss gameside issues here? This has become a particularly annoying threadjack. Take your Technical suggestions to Technical.

I didn't start it. And what I said wasn't part of this discussion was the Delegates having non-WA related gameside powers, like kicking people out of the regions. The WA voting thing at least marginally touches things that have to do with the GA.

Searched under all my puppets, did you?

I don't think anyone can keep count of all of your puppets, Kenny.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

I don't think anyone can keep count of all of your puppets, Kenny.

Hey now! Yelda's the one with the Puppet Army™! We all learned our tricks from him!



We even tried commending him for his puppetmastery once. Didn't take.

[Tzorsland]

My simple answer is "NO."

I was never in favor of the way the WA transition was made, resolutions were simply thrown off of the books with no repercussions to having them removed. When replacement resolutions were written it was like having your cake anew after already having eaten it. Now if you want to unleash hell upon the world, and automatically trigger repeal logic for all the resolutions in force at once, well, there are complex reasons why I currently have a puppet in the WA. (In fact the current puppet is having a very nice time in the region Catholic and as a player I like it that way.) So I must abstain on that one.

I see two problems with a restart of the WA. The first is the question of plagiarism from former to new rolls. Re-re-re-writing is a nasty problem. The second is that I think a lot of the rules are a problem; if addressing the rules is better with a reset, then I am more in favor of it. But if we keep the rules as they are I am less inclined for a more drastic approach.

[Excidium Planetis]

I would like to see resolutions sun-set naturally. Like an auto repeal and a move to "historical resolution" after 2 years on the books, perhaps with an option that the resolution be voted on again and "re-enacted." That would seem to be a compromise between the goals of stimulating new player activity and protecting/preserving the accomplishments from the before time, back in the long long ago.

I know this is a mechanics request and would take coding. But I imagine so would a WA "reset".

As Bears Armed pointed out, the problem with sunsetting resolutions is that you have to keep voting for essentially the same thing over and over again. And if the original author stops playing, then you get stuck with having to avoid plagiarism while keeping the same wording because that wording works the best.

Unless this can be avoided, I'd rather not have sunsetting resolutions.