The World Assembly Strangers' Bar

[Tinfect]

"Conscripts get paid. Slaves do not. Never compare the two again."

"Slaves are provided scraps of food and their masters say they would starve without their generosity. Conscripts are paid a wage and told they are being compensated for their forced service."

"Our nation practices conscription because the people want it that way. If they didn't, they would repeal the conscription laws through our democratic process, would they not?"

"That is rather the ideal of Democracy, is it not? Yet it rarely works that way. Few are those that wish to be forced to march to war against their will."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Conscripts get paid. Slaves do not. Never compare the two again."

"Slaves are provided scraps of food and their masters say they would starve without their generosity. Conscripts are paid a wage and told they are being compensated for their forced service."

"Well, if they didn't want free college education, they should have left Excidium Planetis before they were drafted."

"Our nation practices conscription because the people want it that way. If they didn't, they would repeal the conscription laws through our democratic process, would they not?"

"That is rather the ideal of Democracy, is it not? Yet it rarely works that way. Few are those that wish to be forced to march to war against their will."

"Marching is so outdated. We mostly just fly everywhere, which is what they'd be doing in a civilian job anyways."

[Tinfect]

"Well, if they didn't want free college education, they should have left Excidium Planetis before they were drafted."

"So your government places education for the lower-classes behind a wall of Military Service? I fail to see how you believe this to support your position. In the Imperium, one has the right to a complete education on mere fact of citizenship."

"Marching is so outdated. We mostly just fly everywhere, which is what they'd be doing in a civilian job anyways."

"As in the Imperium, and our people would fight for the Imperium willingly."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Well, if they didn't want free college education, they should have left Excidium Planetis before they were drafted."

"So your government places education for the lower-classes behind a wall of Military Service? I fail to see how you believe this to support your position. In the Imperium, one has the right to a complete education on mere fact of citizenship."

"It is the opinion of Excidium Planetis that it is a waste of an education to give someone free college only for them to die in battle. So we wait until after they survived the service. Of course, serving as a General Systems Engineer requires intelligence, so we let them complete regular schooling."

"As in the Imperium, and our people would fight for the Imperium willingly."

"Civilian life in the Imperium is not quite so similar to military service as it is in Excidium Planetis. When I said it was pretty much what they'd be doing in a civilian job, I meant it quite literally. They'd be filling the same roles on ships of similar size and only slightly less armament, and would be either mining or doing pretty much what the military vessels do. And they wouldn't be getting their education for free."

[Taigawa]

"I think the main reason this Composer weapon is borderline maybe illegal and landmines aren't is that the Composer targets combatants and non-combatants alike, while the landmines must be able to target combatants specifically to be legal. Can we all agree targeting civilians is wrong?"

"Arguably slavery as well." Markhov says from behind yet another different ICNN printout, "Converted to AI and forced into the Military." Markhov pauses briefly, then says, with a sigh, "Of course, they would likely argue that it falls under Conscription, a practice still, unfortunately, legal."

"You just find it unfortunate because we utilize it, don't you?"

"It is at least immoral, though so is carpet bombing cities...or firebombing them...a practice most civilizations use. Though your arguement is similar to the one the Imperial Council used to have me ban it's use as weapon of orbital bombardment, sence it could even target not just the enemy and civilians, but our own troops as well. Such bad press would make my government look bad...and that's something I cannot have."

[Tinfect]

"It is the opinion of Excidium Planetis that it is a waste of an education to give someone free college only for them to die in battle. So we wait until after they survived the service. Of course, serving as a General Systems Engineer requires intelligence, so we let them complete regular schooling."

"And it is the opinion of the Imperium that life in an advanced civilization requires advanced specializations, thus, we provide our citizens with the means to acquire those specializations. Further, a Soldier capable of repairing a Grand Praetor's systems is a far greater asset than those that must wait for a technician to be deployed, or risk losing Imperial Technologies to hostile forces. One mustn't underestimate the utility or ingenuity of an educated military."

"Civilian life in the Imperium is not quite so similar to military service as it is in Excidium Planetis. When I said it was pretty much what they'd be doing in a civilian job, I meant it quite literally. They'd be filling the same roles on ships of similar size and only slightly less armament, and would be either mining or doing pretty much what the military vessels do. And they wouldn't be getting their education for free."

"Internal Security is not all there is to Civil Oversight. Civilians work in almost all divisions of it. However, if life in the Excidian Military is hardly different from life as an Excidian Citizen, what need is there for the differentiation, or even the Conscription?"

"It is at least immoral, though so is carpet bombing cities...or firebombing them...a practice most civilizations use. Though your arguement is similar to the one the Imperial Council used to have me ban it's use as weapon of orbital bombardment, sence it could even target not just the enemy and civilians, but our own troops as well. Such bad press would make my government look bad...and that's something I cannot have."

"The Imperium merely destroys Government and Military facilities from orbit. Bombing Civilians is not a permitted within the World Assembly, or the Imperium. If the concern of your Government is not with the possibility of mass civilian casualty, but with 'bad press' for the State, perhaps you should rethink your priorities."

[Excidium Planetis]

"And it is the opinion of the Imperium that life in an advanced civilization requires advanced specializations, thus, we provide our citizens with the means to acquire those specializations. Further, a Soldier capable of repairing a Grand Praetor's systems is a far greater asset than those that must wait for a technician to be deployed, or risk losing Imperial Technologies to hostile forces. One mustn't underestimate the utility or ingenuity of an educated military."

"Excidium Planetis wholeheartedly agrees. However, college is not the only way to have advanced specializations. Specialized education starts in secondary schooling in Excidium Planetis. As for repairs... Introductory Starship Systems is a very popular class among 14-15 year old Excidians. They usually choose to learn ancient Terran history in college rather than in secondary school, instead choosing to take courses that will prepare them for an entry level job as what you call a 'technician' on a starship."

OOC: You know how the US used to teach auto shop classes at every highschool, and a lot of people used to learn how to change their own braking fluid, etc.? Well, it is almost the same way in Excidium Planetis, except students learn to repair life support systems instead of cars, and they spend considerably more time doing so.

"Internal Security is not all there is to Civil Oversight. Civilians work in almost all divisions of it. However, if life in the Excidian Military is hardly different from life as an Excidian Citizen, what need is there for the differentiation, or even the Conscription?"

"The military doesn't work for profit, and it follows the command of those who have dedicated their lives to the military, not some profiteering CEO who only served his mandatory time in the Navy. For the individual, it is little different, but as a whole structure, it is totally different."

[Tinfect]

"Excidium Planetis wholeheartedly agrees. However, college is not the only way to have advanced specializations. Specialized education starts in secondary schooling in Excidium Planetis. As for repairs... Introductory Starship Systems is a very popular class among 14-15 year old Excidians. They usually choose to learn ancient Terran history in college rather than in secondary school, instead choosing to take courses that will prepare them for an entry level job as what you call a 'technician' on a starship."

"A practical, if comparatively primitive system. Though, under the mindset that I presume created such a system, would that rather not void the entire point of Excidian colleges?"

OOC: You know how the US used to teach auto shop classes at every highschool, and a lot of people used to learn how to change their own braking fluid, etc.? Well, it is almost the same way in Excidium Planetis, except students learn to repair life support systems instead of cars, and they spend considerably more time doing so.

OOC:
It makes a fair amount of sense. Back in the day there wasn't always an Auto Shop down the street, and Cars were still considered the complex, powerful machines that they actually are by most people. I imagine its rather the same in Excidium Planetis, where learning how to not get stranded on a powerless ship is considered more important than obscure history.
In the Imperium, people have the luxury of living in stable locations, and don't have to worry about where you're going to get the next months water from. Benefits of non-nomadic civilizations and all that. That, and the fact that even civilian ships are required to have redundant critical systems, and redundant critical systems in the event of those redundant systems failing, so the chances of being in a situation where you're fucked by not being able to repair a system are pretty minimal. In any case, in the Imperium, you get specializations from higher-level facilities, non mandatory, but generally best if you want to actually get anywhere.

"The military doesn't work for profit, and it follows the command of those who have dedicated their lives to the military, not some profiteering CEO who only served his mandatory time in the Navy. For the individual, it is little different, but as a whole structure, it is totally different."

"And this justifies conscription?"

[Separatist Peoples]

"The Forerunner records were clear to us that the ones who built that weapon didn't much care for moral concerns, unlike most modern civilizations, expecially since apparently their civilization was on the brink of collapse and their military had been all but obliterated. While we do have such weapons by virtue of being able to reuse their technology, I was quite clear to the Navy on how we were to use it. The Thessian Ecumene does not target civilians with such weapons because it would violate our obligations to The Mantle."

"Not terribly relevant, unfortunately. These Forerunners weren't WA members, but you are. Targeting a soldier with a weapon that sucks out their mind treads upon the PoW Accord, which makes sure you can't conscript prisoners."

Bell looked at Schultz, "Conscription isn't slavery, but it's just as bad in a moral sense. Forcing people to lay down life, limb, and mental health with no reasonable recourse? Regardless of necessity, that comes down on the left column when tallying morality. Fortunately for you, there's no bloody way the GA could tackle that particular issue and live to tell the tale!"

[Taigawa]

"It is the opinion of Excidium Planetis that it is a waste of an education to give someone free college only for them to die in battle. So we wait until after they survived the service. Of course, serving as a General Systems Engineer requires intelligence, so we let them complete regular schooling."

"And it is the opinion of the Imperium that life in an advanced civilization requires advanced specializations, thus, we provide our citizens with the means to acquire those specializations. Further, a Soldier capable of repairing a Grand Praetor's systems is a far greater asset than those that must wait for a technician to be deployed, or risk losing Imperial Technologies to hostile forces. One mustn't underestimate the utility or ingenuity of an educated military."

"Civilian life in the Imperium is not quite so similar to military service as it is in Excidium Planetis. When I said it was pretty much what they'd be doing in a civilian job, I meant it quite literally. They'd be filling the same roles on ships of similar size and only slightly less armament, and would be either mining or doing pretty much what the military vessels do. And they wouldn't be getting their education for free."

"Internal Security is not all there is to Civil Oversight. Civilians work in almost all divisions of it. However, if life in the Excidian Military is hardly different from life as an Excidian Citizen, what need is there for the differentiation, or even the Conscription?"

"It is at least immoral, though so is carpet bombing cities...or firebombing them...a practice most civilizations use. Though your arguement is similar to the one the Imperial Council used to have me ban it's use as weapon of orbital bombardment, sence it could even target not just the enemy and civilians, but our own troops as well. Such bad press would make my government look bad...and that's something I cannot have."

"The Imperium merely destroys Government and Military facilities from orbit. Bombing Civilians is not a permitted within the World Assembly, or the Imperium. If the concern of your Government is not with the possibility of mass civilian casualty, but with 'bad press' for the State, perhaps you should rethink your priorities."

"My priorities are the security and stability of the Ecumene's core regions. Going out and genociding people leads to bad press, and the media can incite war and rebellion across the empire with such information. As The Composer is equipped on what are now considered official naval ships, how they are used-if they are at all, is ultimately my responsibility. As I've said before, It violates The Mantle, one of the cornerstones of my administration."

"The Forerunner records were clear to us that the ones who built that weapon didn't much care for moral concerns, unlike most modern civilizations, expecially since apparently their civilization was on the brink of collapse and their military had been all but obliterated. While we do have such weapons by virtue of being able to reuse their technology, I was quite clear to the Navy on how we were to use it. The Thessian Ecumene does not target civilians with such weapons because it would violate our obligations to The Mantle."

"Not terribly relevant, unfortunately. These Forerunners weren't WA members, but you are. Targeting a soldier with a weapon that sucks out their mind treads upon the PoW Accord, which makes sure you can't conscript prisoners."

Bell looked at Schultz, "Conscription isn't slavery, but it's just as bad in a moral sense. Forcing people to lay down life, limb, and mental health with no reasonable recourse? Regardless of necessity, that comes down on the left column when tallying morality. Fortunately for you, there's no bloody way the GA could tackle that particular issue and live to tell the tale!"

"It is relegated to a measure of last resort, much like Tier 3 Civilizations do with nukes. Invade an outer colony? You deal with our soldiers and it's orbital defenses. Invade an Important colony? You deal with the military, our navy, and it's orbital defenses. Invade the Yul System or Thessia itself? Well after the massed three-layer orbital defense grid, We evacuate our cities and then...and only then might it be used. Head Ambassador Rila would like us to remove it, but the hard facts are that we simply don't understand how the technology works or if removing the weapon from it's mounting would trigger a Jumpspace bomb-like effect and kill everyone."

(OOC: Neyla is obsessed with The Mantle so expect her to mention it a lot.)

[Excidium Planetis]

"Excidium Planetis wholeheartedly agrees. However, college is not the only way to have advanced specializations. Specialized education starts in secondary schooling in Excidium Planetis. As for repairs... Introductory Starship Systems is a very popular class among 14-15 year old Excidians. They usually choose to learn ancient Terran history in college rather than in secondary school, instead choosing to take courses that will prepare them for an entry level job as what you call a 'technician' on a starship."

"A practical, if comparatively primitive system. Though, under the mindset that I presume created such a system, would that rather not void the entire point of Excidian colleges?"

"There is only so much a human can learn in 15 years of school. We teach them what they need to be a productive member of society at a minimum. If they want to go above and beyond that, for example, learn to become a teacher, or a historian, or a theoretical physicist, then we have college. Or, one can continue the path of study they took in secondary school but simply take it further, becoming an expert in their field."

"The military doesn't work for profit, and it follows the command of those who have dedicated their lives to the military, not some profiteering CEO who only served his mandatory time in the Navy. For the individual, it is little different, but as a whole structure, it is totally different."

"And this justifies conscription?"

"The will of the people justifies conscription. I merely explained why we need a military as our fighting force, and not a civilian militia."

Bell looked at Schultz, "Conscription isn't slavery, but it's just as bad in a moral sense. Forcing people to lay down life, limb, and mental health with no reasonable recourse? Regardless of necessity, that comes down on the left column when tallying morality. Fortunately for you, there's no bloody way the GA could tackle that particular issue and live to tell the tale!"

"Those who suffer from adverse mental health are usually discharged. Or never accepted into the military in first place. Space is a very traumatizing place, those more susceptible to PTSD often develop it prior to military service, and in fact experience it prior to service in a majority of Dawn Fleet and Silent Fleet cases.

"As for life and limb... well, the last official war we fought in had a total of about 500 casualties, after you include an entire ship going MIA, so I think we are doing pretty good on life and limb. Given that in the Chri-irah incident over 10,000 civilians were killed by a foreign nation's unprovoked attack, an incident we are investigating officially, the statistics for the last several months indicate you are far more likely to die as a civilian than as a soldier."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Not terribly relevant, unfortunately. These Forerunners weren't WA members, but you are. Targeting a soldier with a weapon that sucks out their mind treads upon the PoW Accord, which makes sure you can't conscript prisoners."

Bell looked at Schultz, "Conscription isn't slavery, but it's just as bad in a moral sense. Forcing people to lay down life, limb, and mental health with no reasonable recourse? Regardless of necessity, that comes down on the left column when tallying morality. Fortunately for you, there's no bloody way the GA could tackle that particular issue and live to tell the tale!"

"It is relegated to a measure of last resort, much like Tier 3 Civilizations do with nukes. Invade an outer colony? You deal with our soldiers and it's orbital defenses. Invade an Important colony? You deal with the military, our navy, and it's orbital defenses. Invade the Yul System or Thessia itself? Well after the massed three-layer orbital defense grid, We evacuate our cities and then...and only then might it be used. Head Ambassador Rila would like us to remove it, but the hard facts are that we simply don't understand how the technology works or if removing the weapon from it's mounting would trigger a Jumpspace bomb-like effect and kill everyone."

(OOC: Neyla is obsessed with The Mantle so expect her to mention it a lot.)

"World Assemby law makes no exception for violations made in desperation."

Bell looked at Schultz, "Conscription isn't slavery, but it's just as bad in a moral sense. Forcing people to lay down life, limb, and mental health with no reasonable recourse? Regardless of necessity, that comes down on the left column when tallying morality. Fortunately for you, there's no bloody way the GA could tackle that particular issue and live to tell the tale!"

"Those who suffer from adverse mental health are usually discharged. Or never accepted into the military in first place. Space is a very traumatizing place, those more susceptible to PTSD often develop it prior to military service, and in fact experience it prior to service in a majority of Dawn Fleet and Silent Fleet cases.

"As for life and limb... well, the last official war we fought in had a total of about 500 casualties, after you include an entire ship going MIA, so I think we are doing pretty good on life and limb. Given that in the Chri-irah incident over 10,000 civilians were killed by a foreign nation's unprovoked attack, an incident we are investigating officially, the statistics for the last several months indicate you are far more likely to die as a civilian than as a soldier."

"Combat causes mental stress injuries, I don't think you can screen that out (OOC: of course, bell operates on a 21st century fact pattern). At any rate, being required to die, even if your death is the extreme statistical anomoly of the bunch, is not terribly moral. Likewise, requiring one to kill against one's will is equally abhorant. Possibly moreso, considering the deep personal cost taking a life involves. The Confederate Dominion's opinion is that if we have to compel our citizens to fight to preserve the government, it doesn't deserve to survive the crisis.

"Of course, our Central Command disagrees fundamentally, but this is the joy of freedom of opinion, isn't it?"

[Taigawa]

"It is relegated to a measure of last resort, much like Tier 3 Civilizations do with nukes. Invade an outer colony? You deal with our soldiers and it's orbital defenses. Invade an Important colony? You deal with the military, our navy, and it's orbital defenses. Invade the Yul System or Thessia itself? Well after the massed three-layer orbital defense grid, We evacuate our cities and then...and only then might it be used. Head Ambassador Rila would like us to remove it, but the hard facts are that we simply don't understand how the technology works or if removing the weapon from it's mounting would trigger a Jumpspace bomb-like effect and kill everyone."

(OOC: Neyla is obsessed with The Mantle so expect her to mention it a lot.)

"World Assemby law makes no exception for violations made in desperation."

"Those who suffer from adverse mental health are usually discharged. Or never accepted into the military in first place. Space is a very traumatizing place, those more susceptible to PTSD often develop it prior to military service, and in fact experience it prior to service in a majority of Dawn Fleet and Silent Fleet cases.

"As for life and limb... well, the last official war we fought in had a total of about 500 casualties, after you include an entire ship going MIA, so I think we are doing pretty good on life and limb. Given that in the Chri-irah incident over 10,000 civilians were killed by a foreign nation's unprovoked attack, an incident we are investigating officially, the statistics for the last several months indicate you are far more likely to die as a civilian than as a soldier."

"Combat causes mental stress injuries, I don't think you can screen that out (OOC: of course, bell operates on a 21st century fact pattern). At any rate, being required to die, even if your death is the extreme statistical anomoly of the bunch, is not terribly moral. Likewise, requiring one to kill against one's will is equally abhorant. Possibly moreso, considering the deep personal cost taking a life involves. The Confederate Dominion's opinion is that if we have to compel our citizens to fight to preserve the government, it doesn't deserve to survive the crisis.

"Of course, our Central Command disagrees fundamentally, but this is the joy of freedom of opinion, isn't it?"

"The fact is that while we have the weapon and could use it to destroy our enemies with ease, we don't. The miliatary currently has millions of Promeatheans aboard the Forerunner vessals we've located and activated so far, so we don't need or want anymore of them. We came to dominate our galaxy because the technology they left for us allowed my people to evolve from a backwater race to a space-faring one in four short generations. Now as to military doctrine, Conscription is one we have not really used since Mother's time, and back then, I wasn't the one in power."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Combat causes mental stress injuries, I don't think you can screen that out (OOC: of course, bell operates on a 21st century fact pattern). At any rate, being required to die, even if your death is the extreme statistical anomaly of the bunch, is not terribly moral. Likewise, requiring one to kill against one's will is equally abhorant. Possibly moreso, considering the deep personal cost taking a life involves. The Confederate Dominion's opinion is that if we have to compel our citizens to fight to preserve the government, it doesn't deserve to survive the crisis.

"Of course, our Central Command disagrees fundamentally, but this is the joy of freedom of opinion, isn't it?"

"Forgive me if I am incorrect, but isn't Excidium Planetis required to allow conscientious objection by extant WA legislation? We don't force people who have moral reservations to kill. We simply relegate them to roles that will never be involved in combat. We do, after all, need technicians to repair vessels docked on Reckoner, personnel to refuel them, pilots for observation vessels, cooks for food at military bases, managers to manage fleet logistics, and tailors to design the next generation of stylish uniforms. We enforce mandatory military service, not mandatory combat service.

"And we don't require people to die. In fact, we generally try to avoid that, since dead people make very poor soldiers. We've been trying to fix that problem, I hear, but we aren't making any progress*."

OOC:
Most individuals who experience traumatic events do not develop PTSD. Additionally, even individuals who experience very similar events may not develop PTSD while another does. Based on this, I would say it is reasonable to conclude that some individuals may be predisposed to PTSD. Given that we know very little about the brain still, it may be that we will discover traits that make one more likely to recover from mental trauma.

*You probably don't care too much about this info, as it concerns II rather than the WA, but Excidium Planetis does have an experiment running that allows a dead person to be an effective soldier. In this case, however, the project uses a dead soldier's memories to create a new soldier who has learned from their mistakes. It's all very cutting edge, even for a space nation like us.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Forgive me if I am incorrect, but isn't Excidium Planetis required to allow conscientious objection by extant WA legislation? We don't force people who have moral reservations to kill. We simply relegate them to roles that will never be involved in combat. We do, after all, need technicians to repair vessels docked on Reckoner, personnel to refuel them, pilots for observation vessels, cooks for food at military bases, managers to manage fleet logistics, and tailors to design the next generation of stylish uniforms. We enforce mandatory military service, not mandatory combat service.

"And we don't require people to die. In fact, we generally try to avoid that, since dead people make very poor soldiers. We've been trying to fix that problem, I hear, but we aren't making any progress*."

OOC:
Most individuals who experience traumatic events do not develop PTSD. Additionally, even individuals who experience very similar events may not develop PTSD while another does. Based on this, I would say it is reasonable to conclude that some individuals may be predisposed to PTSD. Given that we know very little about the brain still, it may be that we will discover traits that make one more likely to recover from mental trauma.

*You probably don't care too much about this info, as it concerns II rather than the WA, but Excidium Planetis does have an experiment running that allows a dead person to be an effective soldier. In this case, however, the project uses a dead soldier's memories to create a new soldier who has learned from their mistakes. It's all very cutting edge, even for a space nation like us.

"Conscientious objector status is difficult enough to establish among pacifists. You'll forgive me if I don't believe any current system to be terribly effective. All-volunteer forces have been proven to be more effective by far, and even with the ability to prevent post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic experiences are unavoidable. Requiring service is, to my mind, little better than slavery from a moral standpoint, if not a legal one. Conscription is one of those vestigial barbarisms that the World Assembly will likely have to deal with forever."

OOC: Thats a nifty bit of RP! You'd never have to worry about replacements being "green" with that, huh?

[Liagolas]

"Ambassadors, Ambassadors, you're all pretty!" Those inclined to look might notice the Mouth of the Dominion, cloaked in grey, strolling into the Bar, its arms spreading wide in placation. Behind it is another figure cloaked in white, keeping mostly to itself and hardly moving except to walk and hold a briefcase; it must be a Hand of the Dominion. "Really? A debate about military policy in an establishment meant for pleasantry and revelry of all places?" The Mouth chuckles a bit as it takes a seat at the counter and gestures to Neville for a beverage. "Though it is the speculation of the Dominion that perhaps this just demonstrates the nature of the Bar's clientele." The Mouth shrugs, and Neville sets a glass of Orange Julius in front of it. No alcohol - at least not yet. The Hand, however, remains standing.

"I've been elected as WA delegate for our section of the galaxy. I was promoted! I'm moving to a larger office, I'll be given more staff, and Excidium Planetis is sending another WA Ambassador to assist me, and represent Excidian matters of importance while I focus on regional matters." "Wait... maybe that's not a good thing."

"First of all, many congratulations!" the Mouth says, and it nods approvingly. "

"Next, it is the consideration of the Dominion - rather, this Mouth, that whether or not that's a 'good thing,' as you say, is entirely dependent on the nature of your new colleague," the Mouth says in between sips of the Orange Julius. "Do you believe they will be a suitable representative for your people?"


As the Mouth continues to drink, it suddenly pauses as it catches the black-cloaked Hand out of the corner of its eye. "Oh! This Mouth had nearly forgotten!" It turns to face Schultz and says, "It is the recollection of the Dominion that you requested that you have an opportunity to meet the other Hand of the Dominion serving as part of the World Assembly delegation of the Dominion. Well, here it is." The Mouth gestures to the Hand. The Hand does not move. The Mouth frowns.

"You must pardon its stoicism," the Mouth says. "It is more used to filing paperwork and keeping records and has not had as much experience encountering other beings through watching the debates as Sa - the other Hand has."

"The fact is that while we have the weapon and could use it to destroy our enemies with ease, we don't. The miliatary currently has millions of Promeatheans aboard the Forerunner vessals we've located and activated so far, so we don't need or want anymore of them. We came to dominate our galaxy because the technology they left for us allowed my people to evolve from a backwater race to a space-faring one in four short generations. Now as to military doctrine, Conscription is one we have not really used since Mother's time, and back then, I wasn't the one in power."

"Well, it's not illegal if your nation committed the act prior to being a member of the World Assembly, correct?" comments the Mouth in a tone that almost sounds like a smile. "But why keep the weapon if you don't use it? Is there no way to disassemble or decommission it?"


Finally, the Mouth gestures to the Hand, which sets the briefcase atop the bar; a few sheets of stationery are quickly retrieved from the case, and the Mouth begins to examine them in earnest. Each has a different heading.

The Dominion of Liagolas. The Collective Dominion of Liagolas. The Sempiternal Dominion of LIagolas. The Once and Future Dominion of Liagolas. The Hive Regime of the Dominion of Liagolas

The Mouth sighs as it looks over all the papers. "The Dominion is currently in a disagreement with itself," it comments to no one in particular. Neville's standing nearby, he'll do. "For some unfathomable reason it has determined that it wishes to re-brand Liagolas, and the Dominion has repeatedly sent 'new stationery' to use. It is this Mouth's hope that the madness will soon reach a conclusion."

OOC EDIT: This Hand ought to be cloaked in white, not black.

[Taigawa]

"The fact is that while we have the weapon and could use it to destroy our enemies with ease, we don't. The miliatary currently has millions of Promeatheans aboard the Forerunner vessals we've located and activated so far, so we don't need or want anymore of them. We came to dominate our galaxy because the technology they left for us allowed my people to evolve from a backwater race to a space-faring one in four short generations. Now as to military doctrine, Conscription is one we have not really used since Mother's time, and back then, I wasn't the one in power."

"Well, it's not illegal if your nation committed the act prior to being a member of the World Assembly, correct?" comments the Mouth in a tone that almost sounds like a smile. "But why keep the weapon if you don't use it? Is there no way to disassemble or decommission it?"

Neyla looks over, a ripple moving through her hardlight projection."Simply having the weapon and the ability to quite simply convert an entire city's population in the AI matrixes needed to create the Promeatheans is enough for most minor factions in the galaxy within my dimension to leave us alone. Quite simply, the mere presence of the device on our ships is a weapon in itself."

[Excidium Planetis]

"Ambassadors, Ambassadors, you're all pretty!" Those inclined to look might notice the Mouth of the Dominion, cloaked in grey, strolling into the Bar, its arms spreading wide in placation. Behind it is another figure cloaked in black, keeping mostly to itself and hardly moving except to walk and hold a briefcase; it must be a Hand of the Dominion. "Really? A debate about military policy in an establishment meant for pleasantry and revelry of all places?" The Mouth chuckles a bit as it takes a seat at the counter and gestures to Neville for a beverage. "Though it is the speculation of the Dominion that perhaps this just demonstrates the nature of the Bar's clientele." The Mouth shrugs, and Neville sets a glass of Orange Julius in front of it. No alcohol - at least not yet. The Hand, however, remains standing.

"I've been elected as WA delegate for our section of the galaxy. I was promoted! I'm moving to a larger office, I'll be given more staff, and Excidium Planetis is sending another WA Ambassador to assist me, and represent Excidian matters of importance while I focus on regional matters." "Wait... maybe that's not a good thing."

"First of all, many congratulations!" the Mouth says, and it nods approvingly. "

"Next, it is the consideration of the Dominion - rather, this Mouth, that whether or not that's a 'good thing,' as you say, is entirely dependent on the nature of your new colleague," the Mouth says in between sips of the Orange Julius. "Do you believe they will be a suitable representative for your people?"


As the Mouth continues to drink, it suddenly pauses as it catches the black-cloaked Hand out of the corner of its eye. "Oh! This Mouth had nearly forgotten!" It turns to face Schultz and says, "It is the recollection of the Dominion that you requested that you have an opportunity to meet the other Hand of the Dominion serving as part of the World Assembly delegation of the Dominion. Well, here it is." The Mouth gestures to the Hand. The Hand does not move. The Mouth frowns.

"You must pardon its stoicism," the Mouth says. "It is more used to filing paperwork and keeping records and has not had as much experience encountering other beings through watching the debates as Sa - the other Hand has."

Finally, the Mouth gestures to the Hand, which sets the briefcase atop the bar; a few sheets of stationery are quickly retrieved from the case, and the Mouth begins to examine them in earnest. Each has a different heading.

The Dominion of Liagolas. The Collective Dominion of Liagolas. The Sempiternal Dominion of LIagolas. The Once and Future Dominion of Liagolas. The Hive Regime of the Dominion of Liagolas

The Mouth sighs as it looks over all the papers. "The Dominion is currently in a disagreement with itself," it comments to no one in particular. Neville's standing nearby, he'll do. "For some unfathomable reason it has determined that it wishes to re-brand Liagolas, and the Dominion has repeatedly sent 'new stationery' to use. It is this Mouth's hope that the madness will soon reach a conclusion."

"Ah, the Mouth of the Dominion. Nice to see... a part of the collective?" Schultz awkwardly greets the two.

"Do I believe they will be a suitable representative for my people? That's what I'm afraid of." Schultz says. "Do you recall me saying I worked towards sapient rights when my government wanted me to work towards furthering democracy? Well, either the new Ambassador is a suitable representative of the people who sent me here, meaning generally bad things, or they are a suitable representative of what my people actually need, which of course takes away from my importance as a representative of Excidium Planetis to the World Assembly. If the latter confuses you as to how it is a negative thing, well, the downside to being delegate is that you now represent multiple nations which may not agree with you. Thankfully I am not obligated to vote in any particular way, but if I too often vote against the will of my fellow nations, it may ruin my reelection chances.

"But enough about that. Let's celebrate my new position before the downsides kick in! We'll start with this." Schultz pulls three clear plastic packages from her coat pocket, and slides two of them across the bar over to the Mouth and Hand #2. The plastic packages each contain a silvery packet and a bar apparently made out of every grain imaginably and nothing else. Schultz rips her own open. "I stole these out of our office's emergency survival kit."

Schultz pulls out the silver packet, tears off a corner, and begins squeezing out a sickly green paste onto her fiber bar. "Don't wait for me, enjoy your Gamma Ration." She bites into hers, trying not to make a face at the blandness of the bar and the vitamin-taste of the paste.

[Liagolas]

"Ah, the Mouth of the Dominion. Nice to see... a part of the collective?" Schultz awkwardly greets the two.

"Do I believe they will be a suitable representative for my people? That's what I'm afraid of." Schultz says. "Do you recall me saying I worked towards sapient rights when my government wanted me to work towards furthering democracy? Well, either the new Ambassador is a suitable representative of the people who sent me here, meaning generally bad things, or they are a suitable representative of what my people actually need, which of course takes away from my importance as a representative of Excidium Planetis to the World Assembly. If the latter confuses you as to how it is a negative thing, well, the downside to being delegate is that you now represent multiple nations which may not agree with you. Thankfully I am not obligated to vote in any particular way, but if I too often vote against the will of my fellow nations, it may ruin my reelection chances.

"But enough about that. Let's celebrate my new position before the downsides kick in! We'll start with this." Schultz pulls three clear plastic packages from her coat pocket, and slides two of them across the bar over to the Mouth and Hand #2. The plastic packages each contain a silvery packet and a bar apparently made out of every grain imaginably and nothing else. Schultz rips her own open. "I stole these out of our office's emergency survival kit."

Schultz pulls out the silver packet, tears off a corner, and begins squeezing out a sickly green paste onto her fiber bar. "Don't wait for me, enjoy your Gamma Ration." She bites into hers, trying not to make a face at the blandness of the bar and the vitamin-taste of the paste.

For a long moment, the Mouth just stares at the Gamma Rations, unable to bring words to mind. The not-Sam Hand stands stock still, its head not moving towards the rations, though one supposes that doesn't mean it isn't glancing over with its eyes.

"Snrk!" And then the Mouth twitches, its head jerking a little. "Tch! And now it covers its mouth with one palm. "Pfff... hahaha!" And now the Mouth chuckles. Surprisingly loudly, too. The Hand doesn't budge, but one might not be able to help but wonder what is going on under that hood. To its credit, the Mouth doesn't seem to care what anyone thinks of it, and it carries on with its laughter for several seconds before finally running out of air and stopping with a sigh.

"Hoh..." The Mouth clutches one side and shakes its head, saying," Truthfully, this Mouth is not sure why it finds the Gama Rations so funny...! It simply could not help but crack up!" It shakes its head again and grabs one Gamma Ration, which it eagerly tears open. "This will certainly be an experience to remember; now this Mouth will better understand what life is like for the various Hands of the Dominion.

It quickly notices the Hand of the Dominion not moving to retrieve its Gamma Ration, and the Mouth quickly says, "Go on, eat! That is meant for this Hand to consume." When the Hand hesitates, the Mouth sighs and adds, "It is a gift from Ambassador Schultz of Excidium Planetis, and it would not do to refuse a gift from a fellow World Assembly member state. Eat; international concord is how the Branch of the Dominion for External Affairs fulfills its duties." At this, the Hand finally takes a seat and begins to unwrap its Gamma Ration.

The Hand applies the vitamin paste in the same manner as Schultz, and it eats without making a sound, excepting some quiet chewing. The Mouth, on the other hand, cannot seem to get past its first bite of the ration, and it makes its displeasure with the bar's taste audibly known, albeit without quite realizing it.

"G-gah..." the Mouth finally manages to swallow its first bite, and with a tone that sounds like a grimace it says, "How... how often did you say you ate this while in the Guard, Ambassador? This Mouth does not think it could last a day on this alone." It glances at the Hand, who by now has finished its ration, and it leans in to whisper to Schultz in a low voice (perhaps so the other Hand cannot hear?).

"This Mouth thinks that it better understands why Sam ate so intently on its last visit," it says, and it sounds strangely awed, even a little shaken.

It sort of intellectually knew about the average Liagosian's life, but it had never really been confronted with it before. The experience was... interesting, to say the least.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Parsons yells at the bartender to get him a glass of wine. He has just returned from adding the latest information to the legal archives.

[Separatist Peoples]

"By Odin's Whipped Cream Covered Crotch, the General Assembly has gone mad..."

Bell turns from the CCTV feed in the bar of happenings to face an empty bottle. This shall not stand. He will need many more bottles before the long night is over. Waving over a bartender, Bell has a small cask replace the empty bottle on the bar, and pours himself a tall glass of bourbon. Quite literally, he fills a highball glass to the brim. This is excessive even for the Stranger's Bar.

"The Secretariat has gone mad, and the passive-aggressive authors are having a field day." There is a gurgling as the glass is emptied by half.

"Somebody turn that goddamn noisy box off, I can't watch!"

[Wallenburg]

"By Odin's Whipped Cream Covered Crotch, the General Assembly has gone mad..."

Bell turns from the CCTV feed in the bar of happenings to face an empty bottle. This shall not stand. He will need many more bottles before the long night is over. Waving over a bartender, Bell has a small cask replace the empty bottle on the bar, and pours himself a tall glass of bourbon. Quite literally, he fills a highball glass to the brim. This is excessive even for the Stranger's Bar.

"The Secretariat has gone mad, and the passive-aggressive authors are having a field day." There is a gurgling as the glass is emptied by half.

"Somebody turn that goddamn noisy box off, I can't watch!"

Ogenbond looks over at Bell and smiles, his voice thick with alcohol. "'Civilian Aircraft Accord' requires all men to cut off their genitals after successful copulation."

[Taigawa]

"By Odin's Whipped Cream Covered Crotch, the General Assembly has gone mad..."

Bell turns from the CCTV feed in the bar of happenings to face an empty bottle. This shall not stand. He will need many more bottles before the long night is over. Waving over a bartender, Bell has a small cask replace the empty bottle on the bar, and pours himself a tall glass of bourbon. Quite literally, he fills a highball glass to the brim. This is excessive even for the Stranger's Bar.

"The Secretariat has gone mad, and the passive-aggressive authors are having a field day." There is a gurgling as the glass is emptied by half.

"Somebody turn that goddamn noisy box off, I can't watch!"

Ogenbond looks over at Bell and smiles, his voice thick with alcohol. "'Civilian Aircraft Accord' requires all men to cut off their genitals after successful copulation."

"In the Creator's name, they can't seriously think that rediculous legislation would pass do they? Seems like a piece of trash written by human femminazis to me. What are they going to do next? Ban sex? I will leave the WA if that unrealistic stuff passes."

[Wallenburg]

Ogenbond looks over at Bell and smiles, his voice thick with alcohol. "'Civilian Aircraft Accord' requires all men to cut off their genitals after successful copulation."

"In the Creator's name, they can't seriously think that rediculous legislation would pass do they? Seems like a piece of trash written by human femminazis to me. What are they going to do next? Ban sex? I will leave the WA if that unrealistic stuff passes."

Ogenbond giggles. "And 'Protected Status in Wartime' allows street performers to cannibalize schoolchildren."

[Excidium Planetis]

For a long moment, the Mouth just stares at the Gamma Rations, unable to bring words to mind. The not-Sam Hand stands stock still, its head not moving towards the rations, though one supposes that doesn't mean it isn't glancing over with its eyes.

"Snrk!" And then the Mouth twitches, its head jerking a little. "Tch! And now it covers its mouth with one palm. "Pfff... hahaha!" And now the Mouth chuckles. Surprisingly loudly, too. The Hand doesn't budge, but one might not be able to help but wonder what is going on under that hood. To its credit, the Mouth doesn't seem to care what anyone thinks of it, and it carries on with its laughter for several seconds before finally running out of air and stopping with a sigh.

"Hoh..." The Mouth clutches one side and shakes its head, saying," Truthfully, this Mouth is not sure why it finds the Gama Rations so funny...! It simply could not help but crack up!" It shakes its head again and grabs one Gamma Ration, which it eagerly tears open. "This will certainly be an experience to remember; now this Mouth will better understand what life is like for the various Hands of the Dominion.

It quickly notices the Hand of the Dominion not moving to retrieve its Gamma Ration, and the Mouth quickly says, "Go on, eat! That is meant for this Hand to consume." When the Hand hesitates, the Mouth sighs and adds, "It is a gift from Ambassador Schultz of Excidium Planetis, and it would not do to refuse a gift from a fellow World Assembly member state. Eat; international concord is how the Branch of the Dominion for External Affairs fulfills its duties." At this, the Hand finally takes a seat and begins to unwrap its Gamma Ration.

The Hand applies the vitamin paste in the same manner as Schultz, and it eats without making a sound, excepting some quiet chewing. The Mouth, on the other hand, cannot seem to get past its first bite of the ration, and it makes its displeasure with the bar's taste audibly known, albeit without quite realizing it.

"G-gah..." the Mouth finally manages to swallow its first bite, and with a tone that sounds like a grimace it says, "How... how often did you say you ate this while in the Guard, Ambassador? This Mouth does not think it could last a day on this alone." It glances at the Hand, who by now has finished its ration, and it leans in to whisper to Schultz in a low voice (perhaps so the other Hand cannot hear?).

"This Mouth thinks that it better understands why Sam ate so intently on its last visit," it says, and it sounds strangely awed, even a little shaken.

It sort of intellectually knew about the average Liagosian's life, but it had never really been confronted with it before. The experience was... interesting, to say the least.

Despite the poor taste, Schultz smiles as she eats her bar. Mostly because she takes pleasure in the Mouth's discomfort. "Only during training and on long voyages. Had I ever seen combat, I likely would have eaten it while deployed. Thankfully, I did not see combat.

"Now, it is customary at Excidian celebrations to eat at least twice the recommended percentage of daily value of nutrients for the meal. These Gamma rations contain only the recommended daily value percentage for one meal. It simply won't do to eat only what is recommended. We will have to eat at least one more ration each, if not two." she says, reaching into a satchel on the floor.

She takes a needlessly long time to do this, to let the full gravity of her request sink into the Mouth's mind.

Schultz pulls out three much larger packages, these beige and opaque, and clearly labelled 'EPN - Beta Ration'. She randomly distributes them between her, the Mouth, and Hand #2. She looks at her package, which contains, according to the label: 1 can water (400 ml), 150 grams uncooked white basmati rice, 1 corn muffin, 1 can Mixed Vegetable Soup (400 ml), 150 grams zucchini, 2 slices sourdough bread, 150 grams pitted dry dates, 100 grams turkey jerky, 100 grams almonds.

Schultz frowns. The corn muffin is a plus, but did she really need to get the turkey jerky instead of beef?

1 can water (400 ml), 150 grams uncooked white basmati rice, one half corn cob, 1 can Beef and Vegetable soup (400 ml), 130 grams carrots, 20 grams ranch dressing, 2 slices rye bread; 150 grams dried peaches, 100 grams turkey jerky, 100 grams peanuts

1 can water (400 ml), 150 grams uncooked white basmati rice, 1 can corn chowder (100 ml), 1 can Broccoli Cheddar soup (400 ml), 150 grams butternut squash, 2 slices wheat bread; 100 grams dried pineapple, 75 grams beef jerky, 100 grams cashews

"Normally, these are split up between two meals. You can just choose what you want to eat for now, and save the rest for later. Or not." Schultz explains as she opens her can of water and dumps the rice in. She looks down at her can of water and rice.

"Oh! I almost forgot your flameless ration heaters." She reaches back into the satchel, and returns with three flat rectangular devices. The back of these contraptions folds out into a solar panel, but evidently Schultz already charged them, because she places them heating side up on the bar. Flipping a switch on her own, she places the can on her heater as the plate begins to glow red.