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Stoping Socialist WA Proposals

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Freeraria
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Founded: Jan 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Stoping Socialist WA Proposals

Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:55 am

GENERAL ASSEMBLY PROPOSAL
ID: joe_wozniak_1453673003
Poor People Bill of Rights

This resolution; thinly disguised as "improving worldwide human and civil rights" is nothing more then a miserable attempt at forcing the implementation of socialist ideals on member states. The agenda of the socialist is promoting envy and a sense of grievance, while making loud demands for “rights” to what other people have produced. This agenda has seldom lifted the poor out of poverty, but it has lifted the socialist leaders to positions of power and self-aggrandizement, while they promote policies with socially counterproductive results.

The nation of Freeraria urges you to ignore and reject if necessary, this proposal. The nation of Freeraria would also urge you to send Telegrammatic communication to the sponsoring nation expressing concern for such a blatantly socialist proposal.

Response from the Proposal Author Wozniak:

Wozniak is a Catholic theocracy. We are not guided by political ideology, but instead we are guided by the works of Jesus Christ and his apostles. Jesus told us to care for the poor and so we believe it is our mission here on Earth to protect society's most vulnerable. Maybe we wouldn't have to introduce this proposal, If countries like yourself adequatly fund Education and Healthcare.

Response from Freeraria to the Author Wozniak:

Religious and other private organizations should hold the mission of helping the poor and the desolate. This we don't disagree with. When small local charities control the mission, it is done with intelligence, compassion and effectiveness.

When governments enforce the mission of helping, the definition of poverty will change depending on who is defining it. Often times morphed into a means of causing a harmful cycle where governments provide material resources and services to the "poor", which reinforces this lower classes sense of inferiority and lack of self-esteem, which in turn increases the original problem. This increase of the original problem is further exploited as a means of controlling a population and expanding the government. Ultimately this leads to a controlled and dependent population. Large government is not the solution to our problem; large government is the problem.

Response from the Proposal Author Wozniak:

Remember we are a CATHOLIC THEOCRACY, The Government of my country is governed by the Archbishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Wozniak. The Little Sisters of the Poor, are a respectable group in the Wozniakian Estates-General and take their oath of poverty seriously. As all priests, in the country. Our clergy members preach Good Will and Good Faith for all. and we went everyone to have the same opportunities.

Response from Freeraria to the Author Wozniak:

We the people for Freeraria must still demand that you withdraw the general assembly proposal ID: joe_wozniak_1453673003, "Poor People Bill of Rights". While this legislation may make sense for your particular nation, it's wide spread forced implementation of all WA members will lead to more harm to society then good. In fact it is our assertion that it's implementation will lead to wide spread repression of the people of the world.
We would also implore you to give much more thought to the geo-political ramifications of your WA proposals in the future.

Response from the Proposal Author Wozniak:

Our piece of legislation grants more freedom and opportunity for the poor, In fact, our bill could stop uprisings.

Response from Freeraria to the Author Wozniak:

Your legislation seeks to force a world wide socialist welfare system. The only opportunity it provides is for the lazy and incompetent to maintain these attitudes and lifts the socialist leaders to positions of power and self-aggrandizement.

Response from the Proposal Author Wozniak:

People are poor for a reason, These people are actively looking for work, They have hopes and desires. But they are struggling, and it's our job to get them back on their feet. We have set up guidelines, that says that Welfare Recipients must meet certain criteria to qualify for welfare, and can only be on welfare for a maximum of 6 months

Response from Freeraria to the Author Wozniak:

"it's our job to get them back on their feet" This is the core of the issue. We don't believe that it's our governments job to get you back on your feet. That is the job of charity organizations and we don't restrict our citizens from donating time and money to these organizations. Your country feels that it is the job of the government and this in it self is perfectly acceptable. What is not acceptable is submitting a resolution to the WA that requires other nations to make it the job of their government.

We the people for Freeraria must still demand that you withdraw the general assembly proposal ID: joe_wozniak_1453673003, "Poor People Bill of Rights".

We would also implore you to give much more thought to the geo-political ramifications of your WA proposals in the future.

Victory!

Due to the hard work of the Freerarian people, socialism in the WA has been defeated! The proposal "Poor People Bill of Rights" was removed from the WA floor.

Future

Help the Freerarian people write the next WA proposal to stop this type of narrow sighted socialist proposals.

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Passkia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Passkia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:02 am

Are you suggesting that you would want a proposal that bans socialism? Because if you are then I would like to direct you to this thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348 which contains the rules, notably this one

Ideological Bans

Okay, so you hate capitalism. That's nice, but you can't ban it. Proposals cannot outlaw, whether through direct or indirect language, religious, political or economic ideologies. e.g. A proposal can mandate that elections are transparent and fair. In this way no ideology has been outlawed as this would affect nations that have elections while not forcing it on nations without an election system. You may consider the banning of slavery an oppression of your "economic ideology", we do not.

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Freeraria
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Ex-Nation

Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:04 am

No not saying that a country can not be socialist. What I am saying is that countries can not submit WA proposals to force my country to implement socialist programs.

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Bananaistan
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Postby Bananaistan » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:05 am

Due to the hard work of the Freerarian people, socialism in the WA has been defeated!


:rofl:

More like due to the piss poor understanding of how to write a resolution, one awful, illegal proposal was pulled by the secretariat.
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:05 am

Freeraria wrote:No not saying that a country can not be socialist. What I am saying is that countries can not submit WA proposals to force my country to implement socialist programs.

Define Socialist, because I don't think that word means what you think it means. :p
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Freeraria
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Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:06 am

Hey! let my people think they did something good....

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Kryozerkia
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Postby Kryozerkia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:08 am

Freeraria wrote:No not saying that a country can not be socialist. What I am saying is that countries can not submit WA proposals to force my country to implement socialist programs.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
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Freeraria
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Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:09 am

political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

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New Leppikania
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Postby New Leppikania » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:11 am

Fun fact: you didn't win. That proposal was removed for being in the wrong category, as well as only doing things other resolutions have already done.
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HUElavia
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Postby HUElavia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:11 am

If you don't like it, then leave the WA.

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Barunia
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Postby Barunia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:12 am

Freeraria wrote:No not saying that a country can not be socialist. What I am saying is that countries can not submit WA proposals to force my country to implement socialist programs.


As WA proposals are mandatory for all WA members, the only way to implement such a policy would be to state that nations cannot make a socialist proposal. Which effectively bans socialism from the WA. In other words, it's still an ideological ban, as least as far as I can see.
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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:12 am

Freeraria wrote:political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Yeah...that's not Socialism. Socialism is the belief that those who work within a given business institution should have democratic control over said institution, through either some form of direct democracy among the workers, or by some other democratically elected system among the workers of that business, and that such a management system should be the universal norm in the economy.

With that said, even when using your definition of Socialism, the Poor People's Bill of Rights does not qualify as a "Socialist".
Last edited by Noraika on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Freeraria
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Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:17 am

Noraika wrote:
Freeraria wrote:political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Yeah...that's not Socialism. Socialism is the belief that those who work within a given business institution should have democratic control over said institution, through either some form of direct democracy among the workers, or by some other democratically elected system among the workers of that business, and that such a management system should be the universal norm in the economy.

With that said, even when using your definition of Socialism, the Poor People's Bill of Rights does not qualify as a "Socialist".


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

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Freeraria
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Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:18 am

HUElavia wrote:If you don't like it, then leave the WA.



Really? is no one actually playing this game?

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Noraika
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Postby Noraika » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:22 am

Freeraria wrote:
Noraika wrote:Yeah...that's not Socialism. Socialism is the belief that those who work within a given business institution should have democratic control over said institution, through either some form of direct democracy among the workers, or by some other democratically elected system among the workers of that business, and that such a management system should be the universal norm in the economy.

With that said, even when using your definition of Socialism, the Poor People's Bill of Rights does not qualify as a "Socialist".


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

1) You still have yet to explain how this is relevant to the Poor People's Bill of Rights
2) That definition is inaccurate considering that "The term ‘socialism’ has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state Communism, and social democracy;" (Oxford English Dictionaries). You're correct in stating that the above is the commonplace connotation of socialism, and how the word is used as a buzz word in politics, but it does not take into account the myriad Socialist philosophies (Anarcho-Socialism, Libertarian Socialism, Democratic Socialims, et cetera) which do not involve a planned economy. Cheers.

EDIT: Hell there's even "Market Socialism" which keeps a free market, of varying degrees while establishing Socialist democratic control over the means of production.
Last edited by Noraika on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Passkia
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Postby Passkia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:27 am

At the current moment we are talking about socialism which is an ECONOMIC ideology which gets confused with the ideology of a welfare state which is a SOCIAL ideology, although social ideology does not equate to socialism it merely states that it concerns people not money. With that said, the Poor Peoples Bill of Rights is not socialist, it is just based on social issues. In which case what you are saying is that you wish to ban the idea of a welfare state.

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Barunia
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Postby Barunia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:28 am

Freeraria wrote:
HUElavia wrote:If you don't like it, then leave the WA.



Really? is no one actually playing this game?


If you want to play the WA portion of the game, you need to play by the rules. As I've already stated, WA laws are mandatory for all members, so if you don't want socialist policies to effect you, then yes, you should leave.
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Freeraria
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Postby Freeraria » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:32 am

That proposal was an attempt to force a socialist program (redistribution of wealth) on my country. Fundamentally that is what a socialists wants, this ideal that all wealth is distributed equally across the population and everyone is taken care of equally. You could also argue that my country used a lot of anti-socialist rhetoric (which I did on purpose, for the sake of game play). This is because my country believes that socialist ideals are not realistic and lead to oppressive states.

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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:33 am

Noraika wrote:

1) You still have yet to explain how this is relevant to the Poor People's Bill of Rights
2) That definition is inaccurate considering that "The term ‘socialism’ has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state Communism, and social democracy;" (Oxford English Dictionaries). You're correct in stating that the above is the commonplace connotation of socialism, and how the word is used as a buzz word in politics, but it does not take into account the myriad Socialist philosophies (Anarcho-Socialism, Libertarian Socialism, Democratic Socialims, et cetera) which do not involve a planned economy. Cheers.

EDIT: Hell there's even "Market Socialism" which keeps a free market, of varying degrees while establishing Socialist democratic control over the means of production.



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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:41 am

That proposal was not socialist. More importantly, it has been removed for illegalities. This discussion is irrelevant.
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HUElavia
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Postby HUElavia » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:03 am

Freeraria wrote:That proposal was an attempt to force a socialist program (redistribution of wealth) on my country. Fundamentally that is what a socialists wants, this ideal that all wealth is distributed equally across the population and everyone is taken care of equally. You could also argue that my country used a lot of anti-socialist rhetoric (which I did on purpose, for the sake of game play). This is because my country believes that socialist ideals are not realistic and lead to oppressive states.

Like I said, if you don't like it, you can leave the WA. It's one thing if you don't like it, but it's another thing if you want to stop and/or ban it.


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