NationStates

Excidium Planetis wrote:Such as?

"If you must ask, I am sure there is a fine array of chemical discouragement devices, or other such things. But that is all private industry, and I am far from the Imperial authority on such things."

Excidium Planetis wrote:A wounded or killed attacker? Perhaps a few holes in surrounding objects from missed rocket rounds?

.

"Yes, a killed, or wounded attacker, dozens of injured or killed passerby, and thousands of Iron Marks worth of damage to public property, not even taking into consideration private lawsuits, the fact that we now have to prosecute the moron who thought it would be a good idea to take the law into his own hands, if our Security Forces failed to kill him the moment he pulled out a Rocket Launcher."

Excidium Planetis wrote:And how many civilian casualties will you take during the evacuation? How can you be assured you can evacuate them before your forces are overrun? What happens when your Security forces are defeated?

"Our previous experience with planetary invasion assures us that our Civilians are evacuated quite quickly. And if our forces are being overrun so quickly as to be unable to evacuate civilians, I imagine we have much larger problems than a city or two falling to our enemies. However, this scenario of yours fails to take into account that an attacker would be hard-pressed to get past our Orbital Defenses. Much less stage a full-scale planetary invasion. The moment an attack begins, civilians will be evacuated, either off-world, or to subterranean shelters. We have been on both sides of the engagement, and we are fully prepared in the event of an attack. If our Internal Security has been defeated before the Military Detachment arrives, we have far larger problems than losing a planet, as we are clearly fighting an enemy that is sufficiently technologically advanced to overpower Military-Grade Forces carrying Personal Plasma Shielding, advanced Armour materials, Directed Energy Weapons that cannot be held without the Powered Armour they are wearing, various Aerospace and Armored vehicles, as well as all of our Orbital, and Surface defenses in less than an Hour."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Our nation can rest assured that even if 100% of our military forces were captured or killed, our civilians could still be defended.

"Not at all. If your Civilians are armed, and Resisting, they are valid military targets, and will be afforded none of the protections usually granted to civilian forces in the event of an Invasion. We would be fully within our rights to simply hit your "Homeship" with an Enclave II Planetcracker and be done with it."

Excidium Planetis wrote: Additionally, without civilian flak cannons, interceptor missile systems, and point defense laser cannons, our Homeship (and indeed, the thousands of civilian vessels we have too) would be extremely susceptible to enemy torpedo attacks. Imagine whole sections of our ship hit with antimatter weapons that could easily have been stopped by automated civilian weapons!

"I'm sorry, you let Civilians operate the defenses of the ship that houses most of your Population? Are you insane? I cannot possibly imagine how any reasonable person could think that such a thing is a good idea, much less actually implement such an asinine system. Civilians have no business anywhere near any military action. Otherwise they are considered combatants, and thus, valid targets. I cannot believe that you have such disregard for the lives of your people as to allow them to operate with Military forces."

"Now, Ambassador Flibble, as for you..."

Flibbleites wrote:And you're wrong, I can think of several reasons to own a firearm besides killing people: target shooting, hunting (and yes I realize that this would involve killing animals when done successfully), antique gun collectors, museum curators. All of these would have perfectly valid, non-lethal reasons to own a gun.

"Certainly, those are technically valid reasons, and none of them are legal in the Imperium. Hunting is a primitive method of survival, and is unnecessary in modern Civilization. We do not need wild barbarians running about shooting the wildlife. Target Shooting, is pointless, and is not considered a valid reason to own a dedicated weapon, specifically designed to kill. Firearm Collections, do not exist in the Imperium, as all firearms, are considered Government property, even those in museums, as they are all operated by the Imperium."

Tinfect wrote:"If you must ask, I am sure there is a fine array of chemical discouragement devices, or other such things. But that is all private industry, and I am far from the Imperial authority on such things."

Modern Tech nations are far less fortunate.

Tinfect wrote:"Yes, a killed, or wounded attacker, dozens of injured or killed passerby, and thousands of Iron Marks worth of damage to public property, not even taking into consideration private lawsuits, the fact that we now have to prosecute the moron who thought it would be a good idea to take the law into his own hands, if our Security Forces failed to kill him the moment he pulled out a Rocket Launcher."

Dozens of wounded civilians, for only a few rocket rounds? Your citizens must have notoriously bad aim, hardly any bystanders get killed in our civilian firefights. And I don't see why a few small holes (if that) would cost thousands of Iron Marks, unless you happened to hit something really valuable, like a piece of fine art or the head of someone's pet robotic dog.

Tinfect wrote:"Our previous experience with planetary invasion assures us that our Civilians are evacuated quite quickly. And if our forces are being overrun so quickly as to be unable to evacuate civilians, I imagine we have much larger problems than a city or two falling to our enemies. However, this scenario of yours fails to take into account that an attacker would be hard-pressed to get past our Orbital Defenses. Much less stage a full-scale planetary invasion. The moment an attack begins, civilians will be evacuated, either off-world, or to subterranean shelters. We have been on both sides of the engagement, and we are fully prepared in the event of an attack. If our Internal Security has been defeated before the Military Detachment arrives, we have far larger problems than losing a planet, as we are clearly fighting an enemy that is sufficiently technologically advanced to overpower Military-Grade Forces carrying Personal Plasma Shielding, advanced Armour materials, Directed Energy Weapons that cannot be held without the Powered Armour they are wearing, various Aerospace and Armored vehicles, as well as all of our Orbital, and Surface defenses in less than an Hour."

We can deploy a fleet to your planet (unbeknownst to your forces before arrival) and land ships on the planet within an hour. I am not sure how many would survive, but I doubt your orbital defenses could completely destroy an attacking force before any ships landed, especially with distraction by orbiting ships and defensive systems such as shielding and point defense in place on the landing craft.

And there is also the method of a blockade. You cannot evacuate the planet if the space around it is surrounded by enemy ships, and an invasion force could wait until your orbital defenses were destroyed to land craft on the planet.

Finally, there is stealth. Crafts you cannot detect could infiltrate your defense, land on the planet, and deploy teams of troops.

Tinfect wrote:"Not at all. If your Civilians are armed, and Resisting, they are valid military targets, and will be afforded none of the protections usually granted to civilian forces in the event of an Invasion. We would be fully within our rights to simply hit your "Homeship" with an Enclave II Planetcracker and be done with it."

Your nation may grant protection to civilians, but many others do not. These nations would completely wipe out our civilian population given the chance. In fact, the very fact that you would consider completely annihilating a ship of over 400 million people, including about 100 million unarmed children, shows we cannot trust you to leave our civilians out of the fight.

Tinfect wrote:"I'm sorry, you let Civilians operate the defenses of the ship that houses most of your Population? Are you insane? I cannot possibly imagine how any reasonable person could think that such a thing is a good idea, much less actually implement such an asinine system. Civilians have no business anywhere near any military action. Otherwise they are considered combatants, and thus, valid targets. I cannot believe that you have such disregard for the lives of your people as to allow them to operate with Military forces."

You insult our nation. We allow civilians to operate military weapons in ship defense to protect their lives! Homeship Reckoner is 7000 kilometers long, our military cannot possibly defend every meter of surface space. Without the thousands of civilian defenses, enemy torpedoes could easily hit the ship, resulting in at least thousands of deaths per antimatter missile. Would you stand by and let weapons more deadly than thermonuclear missiles destroy civilian population centers, when arming civilians could help defend against such attacks? Enough successful missile strikes could even completely disrupt Reckoner's structure, leading to the complete destruction of the ship. We will absolutely not allow over 400 million lives to perish because we wouldn't let civilians use automated defense systems.

And that isn't even including the thousands of private craft in our fleets. Some colony ships hold as many as 5 million civilians. Without point defense systems, these ships would easily be destroyed by enemy ships. We cannot let our people die because of ridiculous rules preventing civilian craft from being armed with defensive weapons.

Excidium Planetis wrote:Modern Tech nations are far less fortunate.

"It is not our fault they have failed to become sufficiently advanced. Besides, there are still other, more mundane methods of non-lethal self-defense."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Dozens of wounded civilians, for only a few rocket rounds? Your citizens must have notoriously bad aim, hardly any bystanders get killed in our civilian firefights. And I don't see why a few small holes (if that) would cost thousands of Iron Marks, unless you happened to hit something really valuable, like a piece of fine art or the head of someone's pet robotic dog.

"It's a damned Rocket Launcher. It fires high-explosive rounds, designed to destroy infrastructure, Armored Vehicles, and Aerospace Craft. Of course it is going to be able to kill anything near where it hits. You are seriously underestimating how lethal high-explosives are. In any case, there are not going to be small holes. There will be massive, Anti-Infrastructure Weaponry sized holes. That tends to cost thousands of Iron Marks, at the least, with Labour, Materials, and Private Compensation if it happens to be private property.
Now, as for your remark about civilian Firefights, if such occurrences are so commonplace, that is horrifying, you should not be allowing that to happen, and you certainly should not be discussing it as a minor event."

Excidium Planetis wrote:We can deploy a fleet to your planet (unbeknownst to your forces before arrival) and land ships on the planet within an hour.

"I'd like to see you try and get past the Subspace Inhibitors that are positioned with Imperial Shield Worlds. If we can't Re-Direct your ships, we just shunt them through Subspace, and neglect to take them out. I'm certain it would provide us with valuable Data on the subject of Interdimensional Decay, and the side-effects of extremely extended time in Subspace."

Excidium Planetis wrote:"I am not sure how many would survive, but I doubt your orbital defenses could completely destroy an attacking force before any ships landed, especially with distraction by orbiting ships and defensive systems such as shielding and point defense in place on the landing craft."

"Very few, I am certain. A OD-57 Type D, is equipped with 16 Kathil-Pattern Anti-Ship Beams, and a number of point defense Systems. Any ships that make it to the Surface, still have to contend with the fact that all major cities are host to Military Bases, and are specifically designed to allow for ease of defense in the event of an attack."

Excidium Planetis wrote:And there is also the method of a blockade. You cannot evacuate the planet if the space around it is surrounded by enemy ships, and an invasion force could wait until your orbital defenses were destroyed to land craft on the planet.

"This is true, but, again, it takes, at most, an an hour, and thirty minutes for Military forces to mobilize in defense of a Planet. I am sure you would not like to see the whole of the 3rd Fleet descending upon your invasion force."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Finally, there is stealth. Crafts you cannot detect could infiltrate your defense, land on the planet, and deploy teams of troops.

"I would like to know how exactly you plan to fool an Artificial Intelligence Operated Grid of Sensors and Optics specifically designed to target, and destroy any craft not bearing valid Imperial Identification."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Your nation may grant protection to civilians, but many others do not. These nations would completely wipe out our civilian population given the chance. In fact, the very fact that you would consider completely annihilating a ship of over 400 million people, including about 100 million unarmed children, shows we cannot trust you to leave our civilians out of the fight.

"The Imperium has encountered several Empires with no qualms about Civilian Slaughter, hence why we focus on Defense, and Evacuation. In any case, it is your fault your Civilians will die, as you have chosen to make them active combatants in a War. They will be treated as such. 500 Million People is a small number given the usage of Planetcrackers. That is the price of resisting the Imperium. The loss of life, while unfortunate, is irrelevant. Had they chosen to surrender, or perhaps not made their defenses otherwise impractical to breach, they might have survived."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Homeship Reckoner is 7000 kilometers long, our military cannot possibly defend every meter of surface space.

"Then perhaps you should have considered Colonizing a Planet, like the rest of us. There is, after all, a reason why we do it. If your Military is incapable of defending your sovereign territory, perhaps you should consider expanding your military, or relinquishing some of your more indefensible holdings. "

Excidium Planetis wrote: Without the thousands of civilian defenses, enemy torpedoes could easily hit the ship, resulting in at least thousands of deaths per antimatter missile.

"Or, you could utilize far more efficient, not to mention, cheaper, Automated Systems. I recommend slaving them to a Sentient, if not Sapient, Artificial Intelligence. Thus, Antimatter Torpedoes would not be of any risk to you. On that note, "Thousands" is quite a low damage estimate for Antimatter Weaponry."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Would you stand by and let weapons more deadly than thermonuclear missiles destroy civilian population centers, when arming civilians could help defend against such attacks?

"Arming Civilians would solve exactly none of your problems. Proportionate Military Expansion, or the utilization of Artificial Intelligence would easily defeat the issue. In any case, if the enemy is targeting Civilian Centers, rather than Military Targets, they are making a grievous tactical error, as the Military Targets are still fully capable of intercepting their missiles, and destroying their point of origin."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Enough successful missile strikes could even completely disrupt Reckoner's structure, leading to the complete destruction of the ship. We will absolutely not allow over 400 million lives to perish because we wouldn't let civilians use automated defense systems.

"If they are Automated, the Civilians do not need to be anywhere near them. As for the Reckoner, if your Superstructure cannot withstand extended bombardment, one wonders why you have not bothered to update, or replace the ship."

Excidium Planetis wrote:And that isn't even including the thousands of private craft in our fleets. Some colony ships hold as many as 5 million civilians. Without point defense systems, these ships would easily be destroyed by enemy ships. We cannot let our people die because of ridiculous rules preventing civilian craft from being armed with defensive weapons.

"A Point-Defense Laser is quite different from a Particle Projection Cannon, both of which, seem to be the sort of thing you would allow a Civilian Vessel to have. Again, consider setting up a Colony. There are several worlds on the Outskirts of Imperial Territory that could easily host a Population such as your own, and if you are worried about our own tendencies towards Imperialism, you can always petition our Allies to put Dyson Class or two in Orbit."

"Would you two kiss and be done already? This is becoming ridiculous."

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Would you two kiss and be done already? This is becoming ridiculous."

Hush you. I just sent out for pizza and lemonaide. This is gettin' entertaining. I've got 10 Crowns says one of them gets a pie in the face at some point.

Grays Harbor wrote:

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Would you two kiss and be done already? This is becoming ridiculous."

Hush you. I just sent out for pizza and lemonaide. This is gettin' entertaining. I've got 10 Crowns says one of them gets a pie in the face at some point.

While we're waiting for the pies to be thrown, we're open for business should anyone be looking for refreshments.

WA Pie Shop wrote:

Grays Harbor wrote:Hush you. I just sent out for pizza and lemonaide. This is gettin' entertaining. I've got 10 Crowns says one of them gets a pie in the face at some point.

While we're waiting for the pies to be thrown, we're open for business should anyone be looking for refreshments.

Ambassador Kai offers the Pie Shop some money and buys an apple pie. After he eats it, he comments on the draft. "Let's not pat ourselves on the back quite yet, mmkay?"

He then buys a second apple pie and gives it to Ambassador Bell to throw if he needs it.

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Would you two kiss and be done already? This is becoming ridiculous."

Should we move to telegram?

Tinfect wrote:"It's a damned Rocket Launcher. It fires high-explosive rounds, designed to destroy infrastructure, Armored Vehicles, and Aerospace Craft. Of course it is going to be able to kill anything near where it hits. You are seriously underestimating how lethal high-explosives are. In any case, there are not going to be small holes. There will be massive, Anti-Infrastructure Weaponry sized holes. That tends to cost thousands of Iron Marks, at the least, with Labour, Materials, and Private Compensation if it happens to be private property.

Our civilians do not use high explosive rounds in their rocket launchers, nor do they use anti-infrastructure, anti-vehicle, our anti-aerospace rockets for personal defense. That is completely unnecessary. Regular non-explosive 12 mm anti-personnel rounds work just fine. Really, your citizens are stupid enough to think high explosive rounds are necessary for self defense against common criminals?

Tinfect wrote:Now, as for your remark about civilian Firefights, if such occurrences are so commonplace, that is horrifying, you should not be allowing that to happen, and you certainly should not be discussing it as a minor event."

I never said they were common place. Murder makes up only 1.6% of national deaths, and that includes non-firearm deaths.

Tinfect wrote:"I'd like to see you try and get past the Subspace Inhibitors that are positioned with Imperial Shield Worlds. If we can't Re-Direct your ships, we just shunt them through Subspace, and neglect to take them out. I'm certain it would provide us with valuable Data on the subject of Interdimensional Decay, and the side-effects of extremely extended time in Subspace."

You seem to lack an understanding of how our warp drives work. Our ships travel through normal space, so unless you have literally closed your planets off to the rest of the universe, we should arrive just fine.

Tinfect wrote:"Very few, I am certain. A OD-57 Type D, is equipped with 16 Kathil-Pattern Anti-Ship Beams, and a number of point defense Systems. Any ships that make it to the Surface, still have to contend with the fact that all major cities are host to Military Bases, and are specifically designed to allow for ease of defense in the event of an attack."

Are those anti-ship beams laser, particle, or otherwise? We most likely have defenses that would ensure a decent level of survival. It is kinetic weapons we fear, and your ships appear to be severely lacking in them.

Tinfect wrote:"This is true, but, again, it takes, at most, an an hour, and thirty minutes for Military forces to mobilize in defense of a Planet. I am sure you would not like to see the whole of the 3rd Fleet descending upon your invasion force."

Point taken, your nation is considerably larger than ours.

Tinfect wrote:"I would like to know how exactly you plan to fool an Artificial Intelligence Operated Grid of Sensors and Optics specifically designed to target, and destroy any craft not bearing valid Imperial Identification."

Physics.

Tinfect wrote:"The Imperium has encountered several Empires with no qualms about Civilian Slaughter, hence why we focus on Defense, and Evacuation. In any case, it is your fault your Civilians will die, as you have chosen to make them active combatants in a War. They will be treated as such. 500 Million People is a small number given the usage of Planetcrackers. That is the price of resisting the Imperium. The loss of life, while unfortunate, is irrelevant. Had they chosen to surrender, or perhaps not made their defenses otherwise impractical to breach, they might have survived."

Such an act, were it ever to occur, would no doubt incur the wrath of other nations, as well as our own.

But this is the reason we keep Reckoner's location secret to foreigners. We can't ever allow it to be destroyed.

Tinfect wrote:"Then perhaps you should have considered Colonizing a Planet, like the rest of us. There is, after all, a reason why we do it. If your Military is incapable of defending your sovereign territory, perhaps you should consider expanding your military, or relinquishing some of your more indefensible holdings."

Consider setting up on celestial body you yourself have weapons capable of easily destroying, that cannot be easily hidden and cannot flee inevitable defeat? Yeah right. The reason we have survived so long is because our fleets are hard to find, don't stay put, and aren't "all in one basket". Reckoner is much easier to defend than a planet, and much smaller too.

Tinfect wrote:"Or, you could utilize far more efficient, not to mention, cheaper, Automated Systems. I recommend slaving them to a Sentient, if not Sapient, Artificial Intelligence. Thus, Antimatter Torpedoes would not be of any risk to you. On that note, "Thousands" is quite a low damage estimate for Antimatter Weaponry."

We do utilize automated systems, often governed by AIs. I do not understand what point you are making here.
And thousands is a decent estimate, for the antimatter weapons we use. It is not "millions", as that would mean weapons capable of destroying everything in a 50 kilometer radius of the blast, something none of our antimatter weapons are capable of.

Tinfect wrote:"Arming Civilians would solve exactly none of your problems. Proportionate Military Expansion, or the utilization of Artificial Intelligence would easily defeat the issue. In any case, if the enemy is targeting Civilian Centers, rather than Military Targets, they are making a grievous tactical error, as the Military Targets are still fully capable of intercepting their missiles, and destroying their point of origin."

How would military expansion help? We'd simply have more people in the military, and how is that different from having civilians own weapons? What difference is there between gun owning civilians and gun-owning military personnel, other than a decreased economy? Additionally, our nation does use AIs extensively, especially for defensive weapons.
And there is no grievous tactical error at all. Destruction of civilian targets cripples the ship. The destruction of a few key civilain targets can effectively strand the ship and leave it without power.

Tinfect wrote:"If they are Automated, the Civilians do not need to be anywhere near them. As for the Reckoner, if your Superstructure cannot withstand extended bombardment, one wonders why you have not bothered to update, or replace the ship."

They aren't anywhere near them.
We have updated the ship, numerous times over the centuries. But because Reckoner rotates to maintain artificial gravity, destruction of a section of a ship can cause debris to smash into other sections as they turn, tearing the ship apart. WE cannot prevent this through any upgrades. And replacement is completely out of the question. It took 500 years to build the first third of the ship, and 1200 years to reach it's present state. We do not have either the resources or the time to replace it.

Tinfect wrote:"A Point-Defense Laser is quite different from a Particle Projection Cannon, both of which, seem to be the sort of thing you would allow a Civilian Vessel to have. Again, consider setting up a Colony. There are several worlds on the Outskirts of Imperial Territory that could easily host a Population such as your own, and if you are worried about our own tendencies towards Imperialism, you can always petition our Allies to put Dyson Class or two in Orbit."

Oh, so now you make yet another change! Now civilian craft CAN carry lethal weapons! How many exceptions do you make to your no lethal weapon rule?

Excidium Planetis wrote:Should we move to telegram?

OOC:
Probably.
But I am still finishing this post, dammit.
IC:

Excidium Planetis wrote:Our civilians do not use high explosive rounds in their rocket launchers, nor do they use anti-infrastructure, anti-vehicle, our anti-aerospace rockets for personal defense. That is completely unnecessary.

"Then, Why, pray tell, do they need to be using Rocket Launchers? If they are not using explosive ammunition, why do the not simply use a more conventional weapon?"

Excidium Planetis wrote:Regular non-explosive 12 mm anti-personnel rounds work just fine. Really, your citizens are stupid enough to think high explosive rounds are necessary for self defense against common criminals?

"Excuse me, but, what? What sort of Rocket Launcher fires 12 Millimeter Projectiles? You are aware that such devices are designed to deploy explosive ordinance to destroy vehicles, or perhaps clusters of Infantry? There are far more effective delivery systems for such simple ammunition than a Rocket Launcher. In any case, Our Citizens do not get to decide what is sufficient force to stop a Criminal, as they should be allowing the abundant Internal Security forces to deal with that whenever possible. Self-Defense weapons are to be considered last-resort, or to stop crimes such as Rape, where Security Forces may be unaware of the crime."

Excidium Planetis wrote:I never said they were common place. Murder makes up only 1.6% of national deaths, and that includes non-firearm deaths.

"Apologies, the way you made the statement implied they were commonplace."

Excidium Planetis wrote:You seem to lack an understanding of how our warp drives work. Our ships travel through normal space, so unless you have literally closed your planets off to the rest of the universe, we should arrive just fine.

"If you are traveling through Normal Space, then you can be detected, and thus Shunted into a Subspace Environment. Although, I will admit to a lack of understand on how exactly your FTL Devices function."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Are those anti-ship beams laser, particle, or otherwise? We most likely have defenses that would ensure a decent level of survival. It is kinetic weapons we fear, and your ships appear to be severely lacking in them.

"Beam Weaponry is a form of laser weaponry, yes. However, older Imperial Dreadnoughts maintain a large array of Kinetic Weapons, and considering what we have had to deal with recently, including your statement here, we will be re-integrating them into the next series of Combat Vessels."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Physics.

"I am afraid that we will need a somewhat more in-depth explanation, Ambassador."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Such an act, were it ever to occur, would no doubt incur the wrath of other nations, as well as our own.

"It has, on several occasions. Fortunately for us, most of them no longer exist, or are smart enough not to voice their complaints."

Excidium Planetis wrote:But this is the reason we keep Reckoner's location secret to foreigners. We can't ever allow it to be destroyed.

"Good, keep it that way. If you must live on a worldship, keeping it hidden is certainly the best way to ensure it's survival."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Consider setting up on celestial body you yourself have weapons capable of easily destroying, that cannot be easily hidden and cannot flee inevitable defeat? Yeah right. The reason we have survived so long is because our fleets are hard to find, don't stay put, and aren't "all in one basket". Reckoner is much easier to defend than a planet, and much smaller too.

"If you say so, Ambassador. Personally, I believe that the fact that the Imperium has managed to hold almost all of its worlds, barring the occasional classified event, runs rather counter to that claim."

Excidium Planetis wrote:We do utilize automated systems, often governed by AIs. I do not understand what point you are making here.
And thousands is a decent estimate, for the antimatter weapons we use. It is not "millions", as that would mean weapons capable of destroying everything in a 50 kilometer radius of the blast, something none of our antimatter weapons are capable of.

"Well, if you are going to use Antimatter Weaponry, you really ought to go the whole-nine yards, as the Terran expression goes. Why not try synthesizing large amounts of it. Truly wondrous weaponry, that. Bit on the expensive side. As for the defenses, if they are governed by AIs, why do Civilians need to be in operation of them?"

Excidium Planetis wrote:How would military expansion help? We'd simply have more people in the military, and how is that different from having civilians own weapons? What difference is there between gun owning civilians and gun-owning military personnel, other than a decreased economy? Additionally, our nation does use AIs extensively, especially for defensive weapons.

"Simple, Military Personnel are trained, well equipped, and not a War Crime to slay indiscriminately. That, and the fact that you have absolute control over a Soldier, whereas a Civilian may simply be running their own agenda. Something of a Security risk, if you ask me."

Excidium Planetis wrote:And there is no grievous tactical error at all. Destruction of civilian targets cripples the ship. The destruction of a few key civilian targets can effectively strand the ship and leave it without power.

"Perhaps when it comes to your ships, but, in the Imperium, and in many other nations, you will find that we do not leave such critical things up to Privatization, or leave them undefended."

Excidium Planetis wrote:They aren't anywhere near them.

"Really? Than what is all this talk of civilians "Using" the defense systems? Perhaps I am misunderstanding."

Excidium Planetis wrote:We have updated the ship, numerous times over the centuries. But because Reckoner rotates to maintain artificial gravity, destruction of a section of a ship can cause debris to smash into other sections as they turn, tearing the ship apart. WE cannot prevent this through any upgrades. And replacement is completely out of the question. It took 500 years to build the first third of the ship, and 1200 years to reach it's present state. We do not have either the resources or the time to replace it.

"Reasonable."

Excidium Planetis wrote:Oh, so now you make yet another change! Now civilian craft CAN carry lethal weapons! How many exceptions do you make to your no lethal weapon rule?

"Ambassador, nothing has changed. A Point-Defense Laser, Flak-Cannon, or otherwise low-grade weapon is no more a threat to any ship than a particularly high-energy rock. Yes, it is capable of targeting, and killing an unprotected human, but, we do not go about letting civilians drift unprotected through space, and if they are, it is rather their fault for ending up in range of a ship. Point-Defenses are necessary for the destruction of Meteoroids, Bits of Debris, or even basic Ordinance. Any damage inflicted to a ship larger than a Strikecraft is likely to be superficial."