[DEFEATED] War Crimes Tribunal

[Chester Pearson]

This is so illegal. Duplication of GA 119's mandate of the Nuclear Testing Oversight Agency (NTOA) to:

1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations

Letter, not spirit. Letter, not spirit.

I am afraid you lost me....

[Imperium Anglorum]

War crimes are violations of WA law? Yes, said you and Separatist Peoples in your defence of the bill against Kenny.

If they are violations of WA law, then the NTOA is charged to 'ensure' that there is compliance with WA law, per GA 119, which grants it that mandate.

Your bill attempts to investigate and provide legal bases to ensure compliance with WA law, as it:

• "investigate[s] persons suspected of war crimes,"
  
• "issue[s] arrest warrants for persons suspected of war crimes if investigations deem the evidence is compelling enough to warrant indictment"
  
• "Compels members to execute warrants"
  
• and "Mandates that members pursue the extradition of persons wanted for war crimes, not under their jurisdictions by all legal means,"

Hence, it duplicates the function of the NTOA, part of which is to ensure compliance with WA law, which makes this bill illegal.

[Imperium Anglorum]

'While we would love to indulge in the writing of eloquent insults, this delegation finds it more enjoyable to write a level of legalese which is interpretable in all different manners as well as undecipherable"

OOC: The simmering pit it is, this Assembly. If it were legal, a bill saying 'be pleasant' would be the first thing I would propose.

What was the outcome of your challenge?

No word yet. I'll be submitting another challenge, based on the above argument, I guess?

[Chester Pearson]

War crimes are violations of WA law? Yes, said you and Separatist Peoples in your defence of the bill against Kenny.

If they are violations of WA law, then the NTOA is charged to 'ensure' that there is compliance with WA law, per GA 119, which grants it that mandate.

Your bill attempts to investigate and provide legal bases to ensure compliance with WA law, as it:

• "investigate[s] persons suspected of war crimes,"
  
• "issue[s] arrest warrants for persons suspected of war crimes if investigations deem the evidence is compelling enough to warrant indictment"
  
• "Compels members to execute warrants"
  
• and "Mandates that members pursue the extradition of persons wanted for war crimes, not under their jurisdictions by all legal means,"

Hence, it duplicates the function of the NTOA, part of which is to ensure compliance with WA law, which makes this bill illegal.

It is the NTOA's job to ensure compliance with that particular resolution. How long did it take you to look that one up anyway?

What was the outcome of your challenge?

No word yet. I'll be submitting another challenge, based on the above argument, I guess?

Best of luck.

[Imperium Anglorum]

War crimes are violations of WA law? Yes, said you and Separatist Peoples in your defence of the bill against Kenny.

If they are violations of WA law, then the NTOA is charged to 'ensure' that there is compliance with WA law, per GA 119, which grants it that mandate.

Your bill attempts to investigate and provide legal bases to ensure compliance with WA law, as it:

• "investigate[s] persons suspected of war crimes,"
  
• "issue[s] arrest warrants for persons suspected of war crimes if investigations deem the evidence is compelling enough to warrant indictment"
  
• "Compels members to execute warrants"
  
• and "Mandates that members pursue the extradition of persons wanted for war crimes, not under their jurisdictions by all legal means,"

Hence, it duplicates the function of the NTOA, part of which is to ensure compliance with WA law, which makes this bill illegal.

It is the NTOA's job to ensure compliance with that particular resolution. How long did it take you to look that one up anyway?

Sir, please pinpoint to me where in the legislation it says that NTOA's function is to ensure compliance with that particular resolution's mandates? I was creating a list of committees earlier. I chanced on it. It says 'regulations', which means all regulations. Letter, not spirit.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Letter, not spirit.

Spirit, not letter. That's how moderators now enforce resolutions, so I don't think making an appeal to "the law means what the law says" is likely to succeed.

[Old Hope]

Letter, not spirit.

Spirit, not letter. That's how moderators now enforce resolutions, so I don't think making an appeal to "the law means what the law says" is likely to succeed.

Well...

1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations

I think this has been overlooked.

[Imperium Anglorum]

The full passage of GA 119:

ESTABLISHES the Nuclear Testing Oversight Agency (NTOA) to:
1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations
2. To create guidelines for the cleanup of areas following nuclear tests - Until such time as the NTOA shall establish such guidelines pertaining to environmental cleanup, all nations that test nuclear weapons must perform adequate cleanup so that background radiation is returned to within 25% of levels present before the test
3. To supervise nuclear tests upon invitation from nuclear-testing nations
4. To fulfill any other atomic-related function the WA may see fit to assign it through future law

If we use the grammatical substitute of 'this' for 'that', in an attempt to determine, through a comparative fashion, whether there is a difference, we must conclude that there is none. 'That' operates on 'compliance', which is stated in a general manner.

[Ardchoille]

We have a number of challenges on CD's Railiana's proposal and this one. We are working our way through them, even the double-ups. We know about the time constraints. We understand about campaigning. Please be patient.

<snip>...

1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations

I think this has been overlooked.

.
No, it hasn't been. Please don't submit a GHR on this particular point. We already have one.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Although it is not encouraged to praise moderators for their actions in the line of duty, it is good to get word from the Secretariat.

[Christian Democrats]

We have a number of challenges on CD's Railiana's proposal and this one.

I know we're from the same region; but our names, flags, etc. are as different as can be...

[The Dark Star Republic]

The full passage of GA 119:

ESTABLISHES the Nuclear Testing Oversight Agency (NTOA) to:
1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations
2. To create guidelines for the cleanup of areas following nuclear tests - Until such time as the NTOA shall establish such guidelines pertaining to environmental cleanup, all nations that test nuclear weapons must perform adequate cleanup so that background radiation is returned to within 25% of levels present before the test
3. To supervise nuclear tests upon invitation from nuclear-testing nations
4. To fulfill any other atomic-related function the WA may see fit to assign it through future law

If we use the grammatical substitute of 'this' for 'that', in an attempt to determine, through a comparative fashion, whether there is a difference, we must conclude that there is none. 'That' operates on 'compliance', which is stated in a general manner.

In fairness, if that meaning of Resolution #119 is upheld it should clearly be repealed, because that is quite obviously not what the NTOA was intended to do.

[Old Hope]

We have a number of challenges on CD's Railiana's proposal and this one. We are working our way through them, even the double-ups. We know about the time constraints. We understand about campaigning. Please be patient.

<snip>...

I think this has been overlooked.

.
No, it hasn't been. Please don't submit a GHR on this particular point. We already have one.

I was referring to the that in that clause, not anything else.

[Imperium Anglorum]

I would say that the NTOA is fine. It ensures that compliance with WA regulations. Hence, we don't need a War Crimes Tribunal or ICC, or anything else. Automatic compliance! World Federalist mandates!

[Old Hope]

ESTABLISHES the following rules that are to be followed for the process of testing nuclear weapons:
1. All tests must be thoroughly and fully supervised to ensure compliance with WA regulations
2. All tests be constructed so that the aftereffects of such tests do not directly affect other nations without their previous and explicit permission
3. All WA nations be able to quickly and efficiently clean up fallout from nuclear tests
4. All WA nations take as many precautions as necessary to ensure the absence of unnecessary death or injury due to nuclear testing;

EXEMPTS mild seismic activity that has been shown not to cause significant damage to settlements from the second rule above;

ESTABLISHES the Nuclear Testing Oversight Agency (NTOA) to:
1. Ensure that compliance of member states with WA regulations
2. To create guidelines for the cleanup of areas following nuclear tests - Until such time as the NTOA shall establish such guidelines pertaining to environmental cleanup, all nations that test nuclear weapons must perform adequate cleanup so that background radiation is returned to within 25% of levels present before the test
3. To supervise nuclear tests upon invitation from nuclear-testing nations
4. To fulfill any other atomic-related function the WA may see fit to assign it through future law

The that compliance in the NTOA refers to the compliance in 1. above.

[Defwa]

To accept that interpretation of NTOA is to claim the secretariat allowed a massive category violation.
Regardless, that interpretation does not preempt, duplicate, or contradict either an international court or a committee for investigations.

[Ainocra]

[Ardchoille]

I know we're from the same region; but our names, flags, etc. are as different as can be...

No offence intended. By the time a challenge gets to our discussion forum, it doesn't have flags on, and the names are often left off. With the number of challenges we've got live at the moment, non-content details tend to blur.

Having a cat sleeping on the keyboard doesn't help, either.

[Christian Democrats]

24 minutes into voting:
For: 60Against: 1,000

A lot of delegates (16-1), including yours truly, stacking against early.

[Defwa]

24 minutes into voting:
For: 60Against: 1,000

A lot of delegates (16-1), including yours truly, stacking against early.

Got to love delegates waiting to vote until their constituents have a say

[Chester Pearson]

24 minutes into voting:
For: 60Against: 1,000

A lot of delegates (16-1), including yours truly, stacking against early.

Got to love delegates waiting to vote until their constituents have a say

Mac did. They were planning to blow this out of the water a few days ago. As for Mousey? Well it's Mouse, and that's all that needs to be said.... (you had better sig that shit Mouse)

May I point out?

Votes For: 187: Vancouvia (20), Western Mars (11), The Democratic Nation of Unovia (8), Vancon (6), Principality of Savante (6), The Greater Nordic Federation (2), New Nationale Einheit (2), Courtian (2), and (130) individual WA member nations.

Votes Against: 1,176: McMasterdonia (545), Mousebumples (241), Faschist Deutsch Reich (57), El Fiji Grande (42), Jah Paradise (28), Christian Democrats (17), Cedoria (16), Piacentine (11), Rapallo (11), Nickel Empire (7), Conservative Idealism in Libertatem (7), The Socialist Provinces of Xihanlang (6), Normlpeople (5), Jnania (5), Bunkeranlage (4), Third Untergang Republic (4), HashtagHashswagia (4), Skoodilypoop (4), Elykyellek (4), Recluse (4), Tenmenia (3), Portugal and the Azores (2), Fo-20 (2), The Master Primotav (2), The Children of Celestia (2), Sellenia (2), Der WeltMeister (2), 201 (2), Floydian Britannia (2), and (135) individual WA member nations.

It's technically only failing by five votes.

[The Dark Star Republic]

So, what was the legality ruling on the challenge(s) to this proposal, out of interest?

[Defwa]

So, what was the legality ruling on the challenge(s) to this proposal, out of interest?

I knocked on the review office's door but the lights were off. Also there was only a brick wall behind the door.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Got to love delegates waiting to vote until their constituents have a say

Mac did. They were planning to blow this out of the water a few days ago. As for Mousey? Well it's Mouse, and that's all that needs to be said.... (you had better sig that shit Mouse)

May I point out?

Votes For: 187: Vancouvia (20), Western Mars (11), The Democratic Nation of Unovia (8), Vancon (6), Principality of Savante (6), The Greater Nordic Federation (2), New Nationale Einheit (2), Courtian (2), and (130) individual WA member nations.

Votes Against: 1,176: McMasterdonia (545), Mousebumples (241), Faschist Deutsch Reich (57), El Fiji Grande (42), Jah Paradise (28), Christian Democrats (17), Cedoria (16), Piacentine (11), Rapallo (11), Nickel Empire (7), Conservative Idealism in Libertatem (7), The Socialist Provinces of Xihanlang (6), Normlpeople (5), Jnania (5), Bunkeranlage (4), Third Untergang Republic (4), HashtagHashswagia (4), Skoodilypoop (4), Elykyellek (4), Recluse (4), Tenmenia (3), Portugal and the Azores (2), Fo-20 (2), The Master Primotav (2), The Children of Celestia (2), Sellenia (2), Der WeltMeister (2), 201 (2), Floydian Britannia (2), and (135) individual WA member nations.

It's technically only failing by five votes.

Well, wouldn't that mean it is failing by five votes + the number of delegates who voted against, or (correct me if I'm wrong), do delegates not have votes?

[Chester Pearson]

Mac did. They were planning to blow this out of the water a few days ago. As for Mousey? Well it's Mouse, and that's all that needs to be said.... (you had better sig that shit Mouse)

May I point out?

Votes For: 187: Vancouvia (20), Western Mars (11), The Democratic Nation of Unovia (8), Vancon (6), Principality of Savante (6), The Greater Nordic Federation (2), New Nationale Einheit (2), Courtian (2), and (130) individual WA member nations.

Votes Against: 1,176: McMasterdonia (545), Mousebumples (241), Faschist Deutsch Reich (57), El Fiji Grande (42), Jah Paradise (28), Christian Democrats (17), Cedoria (16), Piacentine (11), Rapallo (11), Nickel Empire (7), Conservative Idealism in Libertatem (7), The Socialist Provinces of Xihanlang (6), Normlpeople (5), Jnania (5), Bunkeranlage (4), Third Untergang Republic (4), HashtagHashswagia (4), Skoodilypoop (4), Elykyellek (4), Recluse (4), Tenmenia (3), Portugal and the Azores (2), Fo-20 (2), The Master Primotav (2), The Children of Celestia (2), Sellenia (2), Der WeltMeister (2), 201 (2), Floydian Britannia (2), and (135) individual WA member nations.

It's technically only failing by five votes.

Well, wouldn't that mean it is failing by five votes + the number of delegates who voted against, or (correct me if I'm wrong), do delegates not have votes?

Oh delegates do have votes, but theirs are doubled, and that was the point i was trying to make.