[PASSED] Wartime Looting and Pillage

[Shaktirajya]

Right. Or how do you know one of the belligerents wouldn't pass off their supplies as humanitarian aid? Warfare is all about deception.

[Separatist Peoples]

Right. Or how do you know one of the belligerents wouldn't pass off their supplies as humanitarian aid? Warfare is all about deception.

"Fortunately, I'm drafting law to prevent exactly that. Not everything can be addressed in one burst."

[Bubba Reb]

"You can shoot back. You just have to pay compensation to the state for damages incurred. A fair compromise."

So lemme get this straight.....

Say you done been been hit with a big ol sucker punch by a buncha scumbag terrorists. They done took your country through the ringer and whupped ya good. You holler out fer help, sayin "hayulp hayulp, they done whupped me good an they done took my pet poodle and is cuttin his danglies off! Hayulp hayulp!"

Then say I send my guys an gals in to rescue you, an yer pooch. But whuuup! They done holed up in yer buildin wid all yer art and priceless historical doohickies. Theys a'torturin yer poor little ol mutt, an he aint long for this world.

They fixin ta launch a hit on yer palace an steal yer favorite gal next.

So me an my troops HALO in around midnight, suround em, and call in an airstrike to take out their senior military strategists, and a whole dang passel o their top men. But we also blow yer precious little paint-by-numbers and playdough sculptures to smithereens along with the buildin they's in.

We whoop em back to the rock they crawled out from under then stomp that rock to dust and hand you your country back, protect yer fav gals dignity, and give you your precious pooches puppies to boot.

You tellin me that you gonna then expect us to pay you for yer missin ancient colorin books?

If you was to do that well.... Id begin to get the impression that you aint all that gratefull.

I'd also tell you ta shove yer artifacts, the bill for em, and your laws up yer rear end with a splintered broomstick.

Now doncha see how such a law would be sillier than boobs on a warthog!?

[Paleocacher]

I would prefer that this resolution not be passed as most of my generals would be tried by international courts as war criminals.

[Separatist Peoples]

"You can shoot back. You just have to pay compensation to the state for damages incurred. A fair compromise."

So lemme get this straight.....

Say you done been been hit with a big ol sucker punch by a buncha scumbag terrorists. They done took your country through the ringer and whupped ya good. You holler out fer help, sayin "hayulp hayulp, they done whupped me good an they done took my pet poodle and is cuttin his danglies off! Hayulp hayulp!"

Then say I send my guys an gals in to rescue you, an yer pooch. But whuuup! They done holed up in yer buildin wid all yer art and priceless historical doohickies. Theys a'torturin yer poor little ol mutt, an he aint long for this world.

They fixin ta launch a hit on yer palace an steal yer favorite gal next.

So me an my troops HALO in around midnight, suround em, and call in an airstrike to take out their senior military strategists, and a whole dang passel o their top men. But we also blow yer precious little paint-by-numbers and playdough sculptures to smithereens along with the buildin they's in.

We whoop em back to the rock they crawled out from under then stomp that rock to dust and hand you your country back, protect yer fav gals dignity, and give you your precious pooches puppies to boot.

You tellin me that you gonna then expect us to pay you for yer missin ancient colorin books?

If you was to do that well.... Id begin to get the impression that you aint all that gratefull.

I'd also tell you ta shove yer artifacts, the bill for em, and your laws up yer rear end with a splintered broomstick.

Now doncha see how such a law would be sillier than boobs on a warthog!?

"If, by some mind-astoundingly minuscule chance that your scenario were to happen, yes. Because there are alternative ways to clear out a proverbial machinegun nest than hurling firebombs into it, and the cultural treasures are, by definition, valuable and irreplaceable.

"If you are intervening internationally and cannot limit your collateral, you ought retrain your troops. Accidents happen, and courts and diplomats are willing to accept that. If a stray round pierces the Mona Larry under that exact scenario, many, if not most, nations would either look the other way or agree to subtract the repairs out of whatever repayment scheme your nation charges for this sort of action. If you rolled a tank over the National Art Gallery, why shouldn't you pay? It's centuries of research and cultural heritage down the tubes. Maybe you'd have an easier time of it if you replaced "coloring books" with "The Original Bubba Reb flag sewn by General Billie Ray's babymama, or, say, the original United States Constitution."

[Bubba Reb]

Well excuuuuse me Dr. Arrogant. Mayhaps you could work on yer readin comprehension so's you'd see where I said "maybe somebody already said somthin bout this".

There's a resolution. Good fer you. You win the "if it rained I'd drown" award fer bein so proud o yerself you got yer nostrils firmly shoved up in the stratosphere.

Maybe if ya werent so full o yerself you'd have have said they is sombody workin on that an put one o them link doohickies up so's we could go put eyes on it.

But naw, youd rather sound all snooty wit yer "try again" nonsense.

Heh heh... some o these goofytard, high falootin, fancy pants, "civilised" folks shore do sound silly when they git their panties in a bunch.

"Yet another case of fighting fire with fire.." Ambassador Burgenheimer looks at the representative from Bubba Reb cautiously and nods to several soldiers from the Praetorian Guard to step in closer to the Ambassador. "I can understand disagreement gentlemen, but let's not stoop to name calling or baiting please."

Drew, if that ol boy aint man enough ta be able ta handle bein called a name or two, then one, he needs to grow a pair, and two, he shouldnt be walkin around with his ego on his sleeve tellin people to "try agin" with such attitude that he's drippin arogance out that hoity toity nose of his.

And look Jack, I aint no ambassador. I am Bubba Reb. Dictator of the dictatorship of Bubba Reb.
If I got somthin ta say, I got the gonads to say it like a man and not send some lackey ta do it fer me. Savvy?

Jest like you, you is here yo'self. You got the intestinal fortitude ta speak fer ya ownself.
But I can tell ya this, you can call yer dogs off. If they bite, I bite them. And I promise, I bite harder.
***turns to the guards and winks*** ......I might have rabies too boys. ***grin***

Now look here. I come here in peace to talk peace among respectable fellers.... an gals if theys any here.

But I aint got much patience fer arrogant blowhards, and in case you aint picked up on it yet, I calls em like I see's em.
Thats better than a two faced fraud who hides behind false politeness and speaks out both sides of his moth, sayin what he thinks tou want to hear.... all in the pretense of "civility" ... anyday!

Now I hope they aint none of them kind of raskals here, but I aint met all of ya yet so..... we'll see I reckon.

[Bubba Reb]

“If you cannot be bothered to read through the debate transcript, I don’t see why anybody should bother to read through your responses. Being arrogant doesn’t absolve me of being correct, though I struggle to see how my response was arrogant. Snarky, perhaps, but not arrogant.”

I am readin back through em here mr tight britches. But that takes time, and since this things bein voted on time is limited and a quiclk glance didnt reveal where anybody brought it up.

So I did. Now git yer panties out of a bunch over it and lets talk about the issue, reckon?

[Separatist Peoples]

“If you cannot be bothered to read through the debate transcript, I don’t see why anybody should bother to read through your responses. Being arrogant doesn’t absolve me of being correct, though I struggle to see how my response was arrogant. Snarky, perhaps, but not arrogant.”

I am readin back through em here mr tight britches. But that takes time, and since this things bein voted on time is limited and a quiclk glance didnt reveal where anybody brought it up.

So I did. Now git yer panties out of a bunch over it and lets talk about the issue, reckon?

"I addressed your most recent points, ambassador."

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

I am readin back through em here mr tight britches. But that takes time, and since this things bein voted on time is limited and a quiclk glance didnt reveal where anybody brought it up.

So I did. Now git yer panties out of a bunch over it and lets talk about the issue, reckon?

"I addressed your most recent points, ambassador."

Just call up his cousin, and tell her to keep her man in line.

[Bubba Reb]

"If, by some mind-astoundingly minuscule chance that your scenario were to happen, yes. Because there are alternative ways to clear out a proverbial machinegun nest than hurling firebombs into it, and the cultural treasures are, by definition, valuable and irreplaceable.

Yeah.... alternative ways..... look, if your nation was on the verge of collapse, your defenses and troops defeated, and you was so desperate for help that youd forget to steriotype and be biased against ol Bubba Reb and my fighters, and accept our help regardless of how we talk, you wouldnt give a rats rear end about alternatives. Youd just be wantin to survive

And if things was that bad, and we could whipe out the snake by cuttin of all its heads, thereby savin your hide and givin your loved ones and your country back to ya, THAT would be the only "alternative". Your life, your people, and sure as shootin my people are far more valuable than artifacts when it gits down to the wire.

"If you are intervening internationally and cannot limit your collateral, you ought retrain your troops. Accidents happen, and courts and diplomats are willing to accept that. If a stray round pierces the Mona Larry under that exact scenario, many, if not most, nations would either look the other way or agree to subtract the repairs out of whatever repayment scheme your nation charges for this sort of action. If you rolled a tank over the National Art Gallery, why shouldn't you pay? It's centuries of research and cultural heritage down the tubes. Maybe you'd have an easier time of it if you replaced "coloring books" with "The Original Bubba Reb flag sewn by General Billie Ray's babymama, or, say, the original United States Constitution."

Heh heh. I wondered if youd play that card. I was hopin you was above that, but naw, your colors startin ta show a bit.
But I reckon I did ask fer it, callin your favoeite paintins "colorin books" and such. Heh heh heh.

And you right, wanton damage absolutely should be avoided. Unnecesary destruction should have consequences.

If we dont learn from our past, we definitely gunna repeat it.those things should be preserved at great cost.

GREAT cost...... but not ALL cost.

I tell ya what though, if your life depended on it, I might would be very tempted to hesitate to save your hide if you value your precious art above your ability to keep suckin air.

You are willin ta ignore the point that sometimes there just aint no acceptable alternative, and crap has to get broke in order to stop the bad guys. You are willin to ignore that the wording needs to be redone to allow for that fact.

An thats my whole point about the flaw in this thing and why it should fail so it can be corrected.

If you are so bullheaded that you refuse to admit that, then you aint worthy of the respect your office deserves.

So are you gonna continue this head in the sand blind support of an imperfect document just cause you dont want to admit the redneck is right? Or are you openminded enough to see past an illinformed perception and your dislike of a blunt talkin country boy and do the right thing?

[Separatist Peoples]

Yeah.... alternative ways..... look, if your nation was on the verge of collapse, your defenses and troops defeated, and you was so desperate for help that youd forget to steriotype and be biased against ol Bubba Reb and my fighters, and accept our help regardless of how we talk, you wouldnt give a rats rear end about alternatives. Youd just be wantin to survive.


And if things was that bad, and we could whipe out the snake by cuttin of all its heads, thereby savin your hide and givin your loved ones and your country back to ya, THAT would be the only "alternative". Your life, your people, and sure as shootin my people are far more valuable than artifacts when it gits down to the wire.

“We would also want our heritage to survive, ambassador. It’s a very simple concept: you break it, you bought it. If you have an issue with the monetary investment, don’t engage in foreign conflict, or invest in a decent insurance conglomerate. You’re in somebody else’s house, you can’t go stomping around like a bull in a china shop. There are alternatives, nations use them literally every day.”

Heh heh. I wondered if youd play that card. I was hopin you was above that, but naw, your colors startin ta show a bit.
But I reckon I did ask fer it, callin your favoeite paintins "colorin books" and such. Heh heh heh.

“Yup.”

And you right, wanton damage absolutely should be avoided. Unnecesary destruction should have consequences.

If we dont learn from our past, we definitely gunna repeat it.those things should be preserved at great cost.

GREAT cost...... but not ALL cost.

“Not all nations share your priorities. Many cultures are willing to die to protect their sacred artifacts, places, what have you. I’m not going to legalize destroying that sacredness because you dislike the idea of being careful.”

I tell ya what though, if your life depended on it, I might would be very tempted to hesitate to save your hide if you value your precious art above your ability to keep suckin air.

“The Confederate Dominion has no diplomatic, economic, or territorial ties to your nation, ambassador. Your sentiment is noted and dismissed.”

You are willin ta ignore the point that sometimes there just aint no acceptable alternative, and crap has to get broke in order to stop the bad guys. You are willin to ignore that the wording needs to be redone to allow for that fact.

An thats my whole point about the flaw in this thing and why it should fail so it can be corrected.

If you are so bullheaded that you refuse to admit that, then you aint worthy of the respect your office deserves.

So are you gonna continue this head in the sand blind support of an imperfect document just cause you dont want to admit the redneck is right? Or are you openminded enough to see past an illinformed perception and your dislike of a blunt talkin country boy and do the right thing?

I don’t dislike you, ambassador; I dislike your reasoning, which I find specious at best. That has absolutely nothing to do with the way you speak, and everything to do with what you’re saying. You aren’t asking for respect, you’re asking for me to acquiesce to your will. I hardly think, and I believe that the sentiment is shared amongst our peers, that failing to meet your standards is the same as needing to fail. Your cyclical argument, which fails to take into account any semblance of military tactics designed to eliminate collateral damage or the basic tenants of how troops comport themselves when in another nation’s jurisdiction, tries to rest on the moral high ground that nobody seems to agree with the language. I have proof otherwise:

For: 10,126. Against: 3,000

“I ran no campaign for voters, just delegates when this was in the Approval stage. I have not petitioned people to vote FOR this measure, I left it up for the national representatives to decide. And they are deciding. At over 3:1 in favor of the current writing. It isn’t perfect. I never claimed it was. All I ever claimed was that your arguments against it were weak.

“I have outlined the various alternatives to simply avoiding those places where treasures are housed: use specific tactics to limit damage, or compensate the nation in question. I even pointed out that most, if not all, nations would likely not indict your troops or force the issue of payment out of gratitude. I have attempted to engage in reasonable discourse. You have not. If you find the burdens of compliance too heavy, I would remind you that membership is voluntary, and can be terminated at any time.

“And before you attempt to insult my “hoity toity” attitude, I’d like to point out that I grew up in the sticks on a poor farm, and the only reason I’m here today is due to my military service, which nearly reached two decades. Again, I don’t dislike you or the way you speak, just your poor arguments.”

[Drewlantis]

Drew, if that ol boy aint man enough ta be able ta handle bein called a name or two, then one, he needs to grow a pair, and two, he shouldnt be walkin around with his ego on his sleeve tellin people to "try agin" with such attitude that he's drippin arogance out that hoity toity nose of his.

And look Jack, I aint no ambassador. I am Bubba Reb. Dictator of the dictatorship of Bubba Reb.
If I got somthin ta say, I got the gonads to say it like a man and not send some lackey ta do it fer me. Savvy?

Jest like you, you is here yo'self. You got the intestinal fortitude ta speak fer ya ownself.
But I can tell ya this, you can call yer dogs off. If they bite, I bite them. And I promise, I bite harder.
***turns to the guards and winks*** ......I might have rabies too boys. ***grin***

Now look here. I come here in peace to talk peace among respectable fellers.... an gals if theys any here.

But I aint got much patience fer arrogant blowhards, and in case you aint picked up on it yet, I calls em like I see's em.
Thats better than a two faced fraud who hides behind false politeness and speaks out both sides of his moth, sayin what he thinks tou want to hear.... all in the pretense of "civility" ... anyday!

Now I hope they aint none of them kind of raskals here, but I aint met all of ya yet so..... we'll see I reckon.

Ambassador Burgenheimer frowns at Bubba Reb, through the holo-screen through which he has been projecting the entire time, at the Imperial Fortress, at The New Roman Nations headquarters. "I'm not threatening anything, I'm simply showing Bubba Reb, that while he may have a loud mouth and some amount of military, we have soldiers here too at the Empire. I moved them into the view of the holo-screen to show you this.. They are the Imperial Praetorian Guard, which is one of the most powerful brigades in the Empire. Also, I would be cautious whom you insult. The Emperor's armies are larger than your's, and while they are massive, they are nothing compared to older more powerful nations like the C.D.S.P." Ambassador Burgenheimer stands and moves closer to his holo-screen. "Careful, an invasion by his forces would devastate your country."

[Drewlantis]

"Also, yes, my nation is by certain measures, immoral. The Emperor cares for his people though, he just maintains absolute control and power. It's part of the heritage of the Empire, that when the Aristocracy and the Popular Government revolted, the Emperor destroyed them. They were truly despicable and atrocious. But the people were so used to tyranny, that it became part of their culture. They simply don't know how to function on their own. They are activists, but activists in the wrong way. They advance horrendous practices and they are somewhat barbaric in nature, even though they are highly sophisticated and cultured. It is a weird blend and doubly dangerous. Taking artifacts, taking resources, doing it through taxation rather than outright stealing, that is how legitimacy is introduced into the system. Before you pass judgement on the immorality of the Empire, just know that all is being done to try to raise this nation in an appropriate way from the ashes of several wars."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Also, yes, my nation is by certain measures, immoral. The Emperor cares for his people though, he just maintains absolute control and power. It's part of the heritage of the Empire, that when the Aristocracy and the Popular Government revolted, the Emperor destroyed them. They were truly despicable and atrocious. But the people were so used to tyranny, that it became part of their culture. They simply don't know how to function on their own. They are activists, but activists in the wrong way. They advance horrendous practices and they are somewhat barbaric in nature, even though they are highly sophisticated and cultured. It is a weird blend and doubly dangerous.

“I assure you, your political system is not my concern, neither can it ever, legally, be my concern. How you treat your citizens is, within a certain margin, your business.”

Taking artifacts, taking resources, doing it through taxation rather than outright stealing, that is how legitimacy is introduced into the system. Before you pass judgement on the immorality of the Empire, just know that all is being done to try to raise this nation in an appropriate way from the ashes of several wars."

“The ends don’t justify the means, ambassador. We aren’t talking about seizing the artifacts and looting supplies from your own people, I’m talking about doing so for those who are not, at the time of the crime, even your citizens! Whatever backwards policy you enact post-annexation isn’t covered by this law in the slightest, because that assumes that the territory is no longer seeing active conflict and the people have been converted to the same, the exact same, status as those who live in your capitol. When you steal from and injure and kill non-violent individuals not under your rule, and therefore not compensated by whatever benefits your state offers or the laws your state enforces, that is wrong. You say your citizens are used to tyranny? How can the individuals in conflicted territories, caught between your military and theirs, possibly be used to your system of governance when they’ve never operated within it? There are already several laws in place to protect them when they are under your jurisdiction, but denying them their lives, livelihoods, or heritage because a nation is looking for profit or trying to wage a terror campaign is unacceptable."

[Asynto]

Noting the necessity of military conflict and the violence and destruction that often follows; [/box]

My nation does not note this. While we agree with the thrust of the resolution, we could no more declare war necessary than we could invent a language for aardvarks.

2. Wartime looting shall be determined by the nature of the goods being seized; seizure of essential supplies, such as food, water, or medical supplies not distributed as humanitarian aid, and material essential for immediate military operations, shall not be considered wartime looting, provided the owners are left sufficient supplies for their own needs. [/box]

This proposal such as it is does not provide guidelines for determining what sufficient supplies is defined to be, and so can be safely ignored. This is unacceptable.

3. Essential supplies seized from non-government entities by military forces shall be replaced or compensated for as soon as possible by the nation responsible for the seizure. [/box]

If wartime looting is committed, there is no provision here for the compensation of the victims here, like there is with essential supplies. In addition, there is no system established here to enable the injured party to demand compensation, which must be an international body in order to prevent abuses of military power from preventing the valid claims of the victims from being heard and fulfilled. That would require a fund, also not established by this measure.

6. Member states shall consider actions deliberately contrary to these provisions to be wartime looting, and therefore a war crime, and shall take all necessary steps to prevent it within their jurisdiction. [/box]

Perhaps this is a failure by my translators, but the phrase "deliberately contrary" seems to indicate that a nation must be intentionally contrary to this particular provision in order for their act to be considered a war crime, and this seems to open all kinds of arguments about whether rules were intentionally broken or inadvertently broken, which can have the same results for victims without punishment for the perpetrator.

1. Wartime pillage shall be defined as the intentional use of violence against civilians and their property by a military force, except where rendered, in the strictest sense, an absolute necessity by military strategy.[/box]

Foolish, as absolute necessity is not defined in this context, to consider anything here in the strictest sense.

4. The use of violence against civilian persons or property for the purposes of coercion or reprisal shall never be considered a military necessity by member states.[/box]

Close, but no where near the general definition that we require.

I understand that my nation is quite new to the international ways and customs of the WA, and I am willing to accept all points where I raise objections so long as they are adequately explained.

[Separatist Peoples]

My nation does not note this. While we agree with the thrust of the resolution, we could no more declare war necessary than we could invent a language for aardvarks.

“Fortunately, you don’t have to. The WA does. However, I’m sure there’s a race of sapient aardvarks out there, so the analogy is a bit amusing.”

This proposal such as it is does not provide guidelines for determining what sufficient supplies is defined to be, and so can be safely ignored. This is unacceptable.

“It was left open such that any prosecuting judiciary can consider “sufficient” to the appropriate situation. I cannot include a table of appropriate supplies, their amount per species, and their status under this law. Unless a court is genuinely convinced that a day of water is sufficient for a scenario wherein civilians would have to survive for a week without sufficient replacements being available, I don’t foresee issues.”

If wartime looting is committed, there is no provision here for the compensation of the victims here, like there is with essential supplies. In addition, there is no system established here to enable the injured party to demand compensation, which must be an international body in order to prevent abuses of military power from preventing the valid claims of the victims from being heard and fulfilled. That would require a fund, also not established by this measure.

“None of that is accurate, ambassador. The compensation is for the deprivation of goods. Depending on the interpretation of the court, that may be the material value, or that may include compensation for suffering. It isn’t a matter for the WA to decide which is worth what, and is therefore left intentionally vague. Nations who receive such complaints of violations are welcome to address the matter on a diplomatic level. Had the ICC been replaced with a functional resolution, instead of the monstrosity that is Universal Jurisdiction, there might have been an actual international entity to facilitate this. Perhaps, in the future, this will happen. In the interim, nations must be expected to cooperate, as per the provisions of UJ. Other laws prevent the unlawful stifling of protest. Beyond that, what you’re asking for is not possible in the 3,500 characters that the WA allows legislators.
“It is considered that any funding not explicitly spelled out is from the WAGF. Funding is not an issue.”

Perhaps this is a failure by my translators, but the phrase "deliberately contrary" seems to indicate that a nation must be intentionally contrary to this particular provision in order for their act to be considered a war crime, and this seems to open all kinds of arguments about whether rules were intentionally broken or inadvertently broken, which can have the same results for victims without punishment for the perpetrator.

“I would be interested to hear how somebody unintentionally steals jewelry from a noncombatant’s person or place of residence, ambassador. This takes into account genuine accidents that destroy civilian or cultural property. This would, necessarily, need to be determined on a case-by-case basis, and the flexibility in the language allows for exactly that. Since most courts are capable of finding the difference between an “act of god” accident and “gross negligence”, I have little concern.”

Foolish, as absolute necessity is not defined in this context, to consider anything here in the strictest sense.

“Again, if a prosecuting court considers that lining up civilians and running over them with tanks to be a military necessity, I sincerely doubt the validity of the court. Members are required to obey all laws “in good faith”, as per GAR#2. That includes their judiciary.”

Close, but no where near the general definition that we require.

“And a suitable replacement would be? This wasn’t brought up during the five months of drafting by your delegation why? This is 12 hours from passing. There is literally nothing I can do to prevent that. However, I sincerely doubt that any nation can, in good faith, find an action that harms civilians without cause to be in compliance with this act.”

[Bubba Reb]

I got a mule out back that wears a titanium helmet and has concrete for brains, and you is more hard headed than that mule ever dreamed of bein.

I done told yall I aint no ambassador fer nobody. I aint representin no region. I aint speakin for nobody but Bubba Reb and my country.

You so hardheaded that you refuse to see anything but your own view on this. I dont really see much point in chewin over it wid ya cause its like tryin to debate with a petrified stump.

You got yer virtues, an you might be a decent feller under all the pretense and polish, but you one more goofy raskal if you value an object over a human life.
I dont give a rats rear end what culture someones from, there a8nt no excuse for bein so twisted that a piece of canvas with paint smeared on it is worth you and yer families lives.

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

I got a mule out back that wears a titanium helmet and has concrete for brains, and you is more hard headed than that mule ever dreamed of bein.

I done told yall I aint no ambassador fer nobody. I aint representin no region. I aint speakin for nobody but Bubba Reb and my country.

You so hardheaded that you refuse to see anything but your own view on this. I dont really see much point in chewin over it wid ya cause its like tryin to debate with a petrified stump.

You got yer virtues, an you might be a decent feller under all the pretense and polish, but you one more goofy raskal if you value an object over a human life.
I dont give a rats rear end what culture someones from, there a8nt no excuse for bein so twisted that a piece of canvas with paint smeared on it is worth you and yer families lives.

Are you quite done yet there Hoss? The NRA President called, and said you missed your last meeting.

[New gillingham]

I believe what you take from another nation during time of conflict is now rightfully yours as of that point you have claimed ownership, so to me this resolution is just a bit pointless!
I mean why would give back half a nation wealth and resources just because you have now ceased hostillitys, why would you?
If u don't believe Me here I will prove it to you article 1 section 5
5. Member states are obliged to return secured artefacts to their rightful governing authority at the cessation of hostilities, and shall compensate owners for damages sustained in the interim.

You won in a conflict with another nation so you wouldn't just give it back?
I hope that someone here does understand my point.

[Separatist Peoples]

I believe what you take from another nation during time of conflict is now rightfully yours as of that point you have claimed ownership, so to me this resolution is just a bit pointless!
I mean why would give back half a nation wealth and resources just because you have now ceased hostillitys, why would you?
You won in a conflict with another nation so you wouldn't just give it back?
I hope that someone here does understand my point.

"I do. You're advocating highway robbery, which is wrong."

[Themightymanuel]

I believe what you take from another nation during time of conflict is now rightfully yours as of that point you have claimed ownership, so to me this resolution is just a bit pointless!
I mean why would give back half a nation wealth and resources just because you have now ceased hostillitys, why would you?
If u don't believe Me here I will prove it to you article 1 section 5

You won in a conflict with another nation so you wouldn't just give it back?
I hope that someone here does understand my point.

Just do what I will be doing, warehouse them for safe keeping, then experience a 10000 year back log in paper work for their return after hostilities have ended.

[Themightymanuel]

I believe what you take from another nation during time of conflict is now rightfully yours as of that point you have claimed ownership, so to me this resolution is just a bit pointless!
I mean why would give back half a nation wealth and resources just because you have now ceased hostillitys, why would you?
You won in a conflict with another nation so you wouldn't just give it back?
I hope that someone here does understand my point.

"I do. You're advocating highway robbery, which is wrong."

All he is advocating is reality

[New gillingham]

No I'm not I'm just saying that you wouldn't just massacer a town to obtain a value bale resource to just give it back, I mean all those people have died for no good reason.
Would the Taliban do that or ISIS?

[Separatist Peoples]

"I do. You're advocating highway robbery, which is wrong."

All he is advocating is reality

"By that logic, I assume you're also against legislation to criminalize genocide, organized rape, and nonconsentual medical experimentation? Those happen in reality, after all. They must be totally fine, then."

[Separatist Peoples]

No I'm not I'm just saying that you wouldn't just massacer a town to obtain a value bale resource to just give it back, I mean all those people have died for no good reason.
Would the Taliban do that or ISIS?

"You can't massacre a town in the first place, either. If you want to operate like a terrorist organization, the WA is not for you. Looking is the military equivalent of robbery. That is what you are endorsing."