[DEFEATED] Repeal "Reproductive Freedoms"

[Defwa]

Bell reads the draft, eyes wide, and immediately pulls out an old military helmet, and slaps it into his head before diving under his heavy faux-wood debate desk. His hand reaches up clutching a second, equally battered and old helmet.

"I've got a spare or two under here for anybody who wants to ride out this storm! That includes the Kennyite, though he needs to find his own desk. I won't share my foxhole with a living target!"

OOC: Ballsy. I tentatively support this. Even though I supported RF, part of me wants to see the forum explode again.

Maybe so...except this repeal is about improving the WA's protection of women's rights, not long-winded treatises against sex-selective abortions (however awful the practice might be).

Maybe so...except this repeal is about improving the WA's protection of women's rights, not long-winded treatises against sex-selective abortions (however awful the practice might be).

Or making Mousey's head explode. Either way this is going to be fucking great........

How do you plan on countering the 150 some vote against stack that will hit this like a bomb ONE SECOND after it goes to vote?

Angela sways up to Bell's desk and plants her self on top of it with crossed legs.
She pulls out an electric cigarette (nicotine free and apple scented) and leans back.
"I'm not even going to feign support for wanting to see this go up. Utter drivel, composed of lies and willful misinterpretations, as one expects from OMGTKK. The Democratic Socialist Assembly stands against this. As soon as you finish pleasuring yourself over the flames, Kenny, please do us the favor of admitting your trollistic intent."

[Omigodtheyclonedkenny]

Status: Lacking Support (requires 1 more approval)

It reached quorum then fell short again (due to the running update unseating delegates, most likely). I've already sent out like 350 TGs; I hope I don't have to send out more come morning.

Scratch that; I think this is safe. (Barring a counter-campaign.)

As such, I will be switching off this puppet (except for purposes of answering TGs and adding a poll) and using my main nation for all future replies in this thread.



...Defwa, you ought to be ashamed. That was completely uncalled-for.

[Normlpeople]

Clover sighs loudly. "There is much deception and mistruth in this repeal attempt, I expected better. That said, I am not sure I have it in me to fight for this again. I would like to ask the author where 'abortion' is mentioned in the original legislation however"

[The Dark Star Republic]

Angela sways up to Bell's desk and plants her self on top of it with crossed legs.
She pulls out an electric cigarette (nicotine free and apple scented) and leans back.
"I'm not even going to feign support for wanting to see this go up. Utter drivel, composed of lies and willful misinterpretations, as one expects from OMGTKK. The Democratic Socialist Assembly stands against this. As soon as you finish pleasuring yourself over the flames, Kenny, please do us the favor of admitting your trollistic intent."

OOC: I really don't understand this kind of post. It has a roleplayed character addressing "Kenny", which is (a) the OOC nickname of a player and (b) a cartoon character that has no IC bearing on the WA. This is the kind of stuff that makes it impossible to maintain any kind of pretense of WA roleplaying.

It also just looks like a cutesy way to get around the trollnaming rules. Oh, of course, it's "in character", so it's allowed. Because no one's thought of that tactic before. Ever.

[The Federal Triumvirate of Xing]

The Federal Triumvirate of Xing is completely behind you in this, along with the entire Imperial Houses of Abzan.

[Defwa]

Angela sways up to Bell's desk and plants her self on top of it with crossed legs.
She pulls out an electric cigarette (nicotine free and apple scented) and leans back.
"I'm not even going to feign support for wanting to see this go up. Utter drivel, composed of lies and willful misinterpretations, as one expects from OMGTKK. The Democratic Socialist Assembly stands against this. As soon as you finish pleasuring yourself over the flames, Kenny, please do us the favor of admitting your trollistic intent."

OOC: I really don't understand this kind of post. It has a roleplayed character addressing "Kenny", which is (a) the OOC nickname of a player and (b) a cartoon character that has no IC bearing on the WA. This is the kind of stuff that makes it impossible to maintain any kind of pretense of WA roleplaying.

It also just looks like a cutesy way to get around the trollnaming rules. Oh, of course, it's "in character", so it's allowed. Because no one's thought of that tactic before. Ever.

OOC: I honestly have no idea how else to address the delegation.
The fact he's named a clone of a player named after a common occurrence on a tv show makes it difficult to navigate.

[Chester Pearson]

Angela sways up to Bell's desk and plants her self on top of it with crossed legs.
She pulls out an electric cigarette (nicotine free and apple scented) and leans back.
"I'm not even going to feign support for wanting to see this go up. Utter drivel, composed of lies and willful misinterpretations, as one expects from OMGTKK. The Democratic Socialist Assembly stands against this. As soon as you finish pleasuring yourself over the flames, Kenny, please do us the favor of admitting your trollistic intent."

Really? The DSA is against this? I happen to be a charter nation, and I am not against this. I wasn't aware one nation spoke for the whole assembly. I guess you learn something new every day....

[Defwa]

Angela sways up to Bell's desk and plants her self on top of it with crossed legs.
She pulls out an electric cigarette (nicotine free and apple scented) and leans back.
"I'm not even going to feign support for wanting to see this go up. Utter drivel, composed of lies and willful misinterpretations, as one expects from OMGTKK. The Democratic Socialist Assembly stands against this. As soon as you finish pleasuring yourself over the flames, Kenny, please do us the favor of admitting your trollistic intent."

Really? The DSA is against this? I happen to be a charter nation, and I am not against this. I wasn't aware one nation spoke for the whole assembly. I guess you learn something new every day....

Right, an individual can't possibly take into account the voting history of their region or its overarching leftist political agenda and make an informed assumption.
How dare I. Just like how dare I use modern colloquialisms to point out an ambassador's stated goals of disruption.
OOC: And as far as I'm aware, you haven't been a voting member of the DSA for a while unless you have some WA puppet still hiding in there somewhere.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

How dare I. Just like how dare I use modern colloquialisms to point out an ambassador's stated goals of disruption.

Uh, excuse me? Where are these "stated goals of disruption" posted? Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish accusations?

For the record, my "goals" are to repeal this resolution. Nothing more.

But, if you wish to continue your goal of smearing players using an IC mask...

OOC: I honestly have no idea how else to address the delegation [IC].

...here: Omigodtheykilledkenny and Omigodtheyclonedkenny are the same nation IC.

[Louisistan]

Special Ambassador Schneider: "Oooooh this is gonna be so fun. I think I'll actually stick around here for that debate and vote. All hell's gonna break loose here. So much fun."

[Bananaistan]

We didn't have to think long at all about deciding that we will vote against this when it hits a vote. We are pleased to continue to be in favour of the unrestricted rights of women to decide what, how, when, why and where their bodies are used and we shall proudly stand with the international community in defending this right. Also, I am sure that Comrade Landfree has accurately predicted the future voting record of the Democratic Socialist Assembly.

[The Flood]

Clover sighs loudly. "There is much deception and mistruth in this repeal attempt, I expected better. That said, I am not sure I have it in me to fight for this again. I would like to ask the author where 'abortion' is mentioned in the original legislation however"

Don't be naive. The resolution mandates legal abortion in all nations save for those with extremely advanced technology.

[Nanualele]

The Lord Commander of Nanualele wishes to convey his appreciation and support for this repeal of a resolution that excessively meddles in nation's internal affairs and imposes atheist religious law. His people are celebrating in anticipation of the lives that will be saved if this passes.

[Eireann Fae]

"Obviously, we're opposed to this latest repeal attempt." Alexandra keeps her eyes on an electronic device in her hands as she speaks, her bare feet crossed atop the desk before her as she leans back in her chair. The young woman appears to be texting - presumably the rest of the Fae delegation, which are notably absent from the Chamber. "Many thanks to our allies for your continued support of Reproductive Freedoms. When 'piſkœ and Ro' get here, we'll give a better response."

(OOC: Alex said it IC, I'm saying it OOC - thanks for the continued support, Defwa, Bananaistan, Hakio, and Normlpeople. I'm hoping to have enough time for a proper response Thursday. I've been trying to be more active in NS - reviving this debate may be a suitable catalyst. I just hope the day or three out of a week that I may have the time will be enough :-)

[Louisistan]

Max looks up startled, staring at Alexandra. "What, what?! I could have sworn that desk was empty! I thought that desk just gathered dust. Welcome back to the assembly and cheers! Long time no see." He leans back and raises his glass at Alex.

[Honor and Glory]

After reviewing the Reproductive Freedoms Act we agree with reasoning behind this repeal and will vote for it

[Defwa]

How dare I. Just like how dare I use modern colloquialisms to point out an ambassador's stated goals of disruption.

Uh, excuse me? Where are these "stated goals of disruption" posted? Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish accusations?

For the record, my "goals" are to repeal this resolution. Nothing more.

But, if you wish to continue your goal of smearing players using an IC mask...

OOC: I honestly have no idea how else to address the delegation [IC].

...here: Omigodtheykilledkenny and Omigodtheyclonedkenny are the same nation IC.

OOC [From your FAQ
"So there you have it, just a regular, run-of-the-mill country, pushing around other regular, run-of-the-mill countries for fun, 'cause sometimes even governments get bored and need to entertain themselves somehow. Got any more questions to ask, Mr. Big Shot War-Crimes Tribunal Judge, with your frilly robe, and powdered wig, and serious attitude problem?"
Of course I know I'm feeding your ego by pointing that out but at least maybe one of these people are going to stop pretending you're motivated by moral outrage.

Yes, I know OMGTKK and OMGTCK are the same country. Doesn't change the fact that you've only ever referred to your people as Kennyites and introduce yourself as Kenny at the top of the thread. Your link doesn't provide how you're supposed to be addressed (you know, like with an ambassador name).]

[Railana]

Congratulations on reaching quorum, and best of luck. You have our support.

Joseph Fulton
Chief Ambassador, Railanan Mission to the World Assembly

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

OOC [From your FAQ
"So there you have it, just a regular, run-of-the-mill country, pushing around other regular, run-of-the-mill countries for fun, 'cause sometimes even governments get bored and need to entertain themselves somehow. Got any more questions to ask, Mr. Big Shot War-Crimes Tribunal Judge, with your frilly robe, and powdered wig, and serious attitude problem?"
Of course I know I'm feeding your ego by pointing that out but at least maybe one of these people are going to stop pretending you're motivated by moral outrage.

Pointing what out? What wisdom is quoting a snippet from my (obviously in-character) Factbook supposed to convey about my "trollistic intentions" here?

[Bananaistan]

"Obviously, we're opposed to this latest repeal attempt." Alexandra keeps her eyes on an electronic device in her hands as she speaks, her bare feet crossed atop the desk before her as she leans back in her chair. The young woman appears to be texting - presumably the rest of the Fae delegation, which are notably absent from the Chamber. "Many thanks to our allies for your continued support of Reproductive Freedoms. When 'piſkœ and Ro' get here, we'll give a better response."

It is a pleasure for the People's Republic of Bananaistan to continue to be allies of the Community of Eireann Fae in this matter (and ofc no doubt in many, many other matters). We also wish to welcome you and the rest of the Fae delegation back to the proceedings here. I hope you won't mind us throwing a few opening salvoes across the boards of the Kennyites regarding the text of the repeal attempt.

I noted seven occurrences of the word abortion in the repeal text. This is despite the fact that the word doesn't once occur in the original resolution. The word termination, which is the key word in the original resolution, is not mentioned once. Not particularly important some ambassadors might think, but as we will now explain, the difference between termination of pregnancy and abortion is a vital distinction in the interpretation of the target resolution. Particularly when we come to the line in the repeal text: "Noting that the resolution, by the author's own admission, compels member states to legalize abortion at any point in a patient's pregnancy, even into the late term,".

This is blatantly false and is a misrepresentation of what the author stated during the debate on the original resolution. The Fae delegation and its supporters were at pains to point out that late term termination, as mandated by the original, does not necessarily have to include abortions. You can note the relevant part of the official transcript here (first paragraph). To suggest that the author's own admission was to compel complete legalisation of abortion even into late term, is incorrect. Hence the usage of the words terminate, termination, etc in the original rather than abortion.

In this rather fast perusal of the repeal text, I would also raise an issue with the contention that the target resolution effectively forces member states to view counselling as an impediment to termination of pregnancy. This just ignores the second from last clause of the target resolution: "PERMITS Member Nations to enact policies encouraging individuals to allow live delivery of their offspring, provided such policies do not ultimately hinder the individual from terminating their pregnancy".

We are unaware of the exact rulings of the secretariat regarding misrepresentation of the target resolution in a repeal text. We would be disappointed if it is allowable, especially with these two egregious examples, and we hope that someone might advise us of the rules regarding same.

[The Dark Star Republic]

We are unaware of the exact rulings of the secretariat regarding misrepresentation of the target resolution in a repeal text. We would be disappointed if it is allowable, especially with these two egregious examples, and we hope that someone might advise us of the rules regarding same.

OOC: I made that comparison before:

Your resolution is trying to claim that without the ICC, nations are required to prosecute and punish those guilty of the crimes within, yet most of the resolutions on those subjects ... don't contain any such requirement. ... It is a classic "Honest Mistake" misrepresentation: it would be similar to claiming that Reproductive Freedoms forces nations to permit abortions in the 39th week of pregnancy, when in fact the resolution permits induced delivery to be required instead.

So there's certainly precedent that "misrepresentation" is allowed as a "matter of interpretation" - but then, there's also a lot of precedent of such precedents being completely overturned and ignored.

[Frustrated Franciscans]

The Organic Vegan Commune of Frustrated Franciscans
Official Delegation to the World Assembly
“We praise You, Lord, for Sister Death!”
Friar John Sanders, OFM Ambassador and WA representative
Friar Tuck Ferguson, OFM Assistant Ambassador
Brother Maynard, TOR Keeper of the Holy Hand-grenade

We rise in strong support of the repeal of Resolution #286, Reproductive Freedoms, which has nothing to do with freedom in any manner whatsoever. The strong pro-life stance of Frustrated Franciscans is well known. The resolution itself combines a lot of "lip service" statements that are used selectively or half way. This results in nations not properly implementing the resolution as written.

For example:
"RECOGNISES that the termination of pregnancy is a medical procedure, with all the rights and protections afforded to such a practice,"

followed by:
"DEMANDS that Member Nations prohibit any impediment to the termination of pregnancy that is not applied to medical procedures of similar risk and complexity,"

Do people actually know what this means? What about "Informed Consent"

Increasing medico-legal litigation,1 and the desire to provide patients with more say concerning their own treatment, has highlighted the issue of informed consent and how it is obtained. In order for a patient to make a sensible decision concerning his or her treatment they need appropriate information. This may occur via discussions with medical/nursing staff, via the media/internet, or from speaking with friends who have undergone a similar procedure. However, it chiefly occurs during the acquisition of informed consent, during which the risks and benefits of any surgical procedure are explained.

Informed consent for elective surgery is often obtained by junior medical staff, during pre-assessment clinics, or on the day of surgery. This may include pre-registration House Officers (PRHOs) (F1 grade—Modernizing Medical Careers) or Senior House Officers (SHOs). Current guidance states that the person obtaining consent must either be capable of performing the procedure themselves; or have received specialist training in advising patients about the procedure.

For consent to be valid the patient must (1) be competent to take the particular decision; (2) have received sufficient information to make a decision; and (3) not be acting under duress.

The last point may be an issue if consent is obtained upon the day of surgery. Most patients will have firmly decided to proceed before attending for surgery. However, a minority may develop doubts upon learning about the procedure in more detail, during the consent process. If these doubts arise on the day of surgery the patient may feel under duress to proceed, as all the arrangements have been made. Therefore it would be wiser to obtain informed consent at the time of listing in clinic, when the risks and benefits are often explained. The patient will feel under less pressure to proceed, and hence will not be acting under duress.

This becomes complex because it is far too easy to dismiss the risk and complexity of such procedures, for the sake of promoting such procedures. Indeed if such procedures are "medical procedures" should not the "standards and requirements" of such procedures be enforced as well as the "rights" and "protections?" Are not the "protections" also for the safety of the patient in these procedures which, as in any surgical procedure, carries risks of complications and even death?

I would also point out that the "Yearning" is not a active clause. There is nothing here which prohibits the state from forcing abortion on a person, pursuant to clause IV of WA #29, Patient's Rights Act, "in the presence of a legal instrument issued by a court of jurisdiction stating that the patient is not competent to make decisions."

There are many reasons to repeal this horrid resolution. I applaud the current attempt to do so. As for a proper replacement ... I strongly doubt any proper replacement could ever be written so as to be passable.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

*snip*

We are delighted to witness an opponent to this measure actually attempting to argue on its merits, however unnerved we are that in this era of "Discarding" resolutions, it seeks to rules-lawyer it to death.

We believe the authors were quite clear about their intentions when they introduced this act back in February:

Does this proposal allow late-term termination of pregnancy?
Yes, but it should be noted that such circumstances are exceedingly rare, and often only performed when there is a dire need anyway. Termination of pregnancy gets more complicated the longer one waits to perform the procedure, and pregnant individuals are quite aware of this fact. Even in places where such terminations are currently allowed, they are almost always performed for medical reasons - generally when continuation of the pregnancy would put the individual's life at risk. Even though this proposal would allow such terminations to occur, it is our firm belief that such procedures would still be quite rare.

Can individuals be subjected to forced sonograms or extensive counselling?
The third active clause in our proposal demands that procedures to terminate pregnancy can not be hindered by any measures not taken for other medical procedures of similar risk and complexity. If you require extensive counselling for every minor surgery or prescribed drug, you can apply the same practice to the procedures in question; however, we doubt your citizens would appreciate such measures.

True to what the repeal states, "impediments" to abortion could include counseling. And although the author states her resolution merely "allows" late-term abortions, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that late-term abortions are no more mandatory under the terms of the resolution just because it permits states to "encourage" live births as an alternative. The relevant clause makes clear that the choice remains the "individual's." If the individual demands a late-term abortion, the state must allow it.

...Although these developments are sure to hasten the Mystery Moderator Who Wishes to Remain Nameless' inevitable removal of our repeal.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Poll added.

[Mesogiria]

"Obviously, we're opposed to this latest repeal attempt." Alexandra keeps her eyes on an electronic device in her hands as she speaks, her bare feet crossed atop the desk before her as she leans back in her chair. The young woman appears to be texting - presumably the rest of the Fae delegation, which are notably absent from the Chamber. "Many thanks to our allies for your continued support of Reproductive Freedoms. When 'piſkœ and Ro' get here, we'll give a better response."

(OOC: Alex said it IC, I'm saying it OOC - thanks for the continued support, Defwa, Bananaistan, Hakio, and Normlpeople. I'm hoping to have enough time for a proper response Thursday. I've been trying to be more active in NS - reviving this debate may be a suitable catalyst. I just hope the day or three out of a week that I may have the time will be enough :-)

"What an awkward time to find out you're still around," said Delegate Battlesmere, having only moments before submitting his nation's approval of this repeal effort. "Still, its nice, I guess..."