[New Draft Inbound] International Air Travel Regulation

[Lexicor]

snip

In that case, I would make sure the following are clearly stated in the resolution:

• Only areas in which international passengers may reside without clearing customs (i.e. "international areas") within international airports are extraterritorial bodies;
• Such areas remain extraterritorial bodies only so long as the "international area" is used as such (that is to say, the nation has the right to reclaim the territory if, for instance, it shuts down the airport); and
• The nation in which the international airport is located has the right to exercise jurisdiction over such areas.

One more thing - I'm quite interested in this proposal, and I may have several further comments to make in the near future.

Joseph Fulton
Chief Ambassador, Railanan Mission to the World Assembly

"These changes will be included in the next draft."

OOC: That might take a while. School week again. Character space will also be an issue. Ill try and cut down excess language and the like too.

[Jarish Inyo]

With those changes, the proposal becomes more acceptable.

[Lexicor]

With those changes, the proposal becomes more acceptable.

I am worried that it is currently in the wrong category. Should this be Free Trade or Advancement of Industry?

[The Two Jerseys]

With those changes, the proposal becomes more acceptable.

I am worried that it is currently in the wrong category. Should this be Free Trade or Advancement of Industry?

I'd say Free Trade.

[Noku]

I am for this as long as it gets revised i have territories already in place for emergency landing and international air ports in place they are allowed to fly over our nation so long as they do nt fly over capitol if they do a squadran of fighter jets will fly up to force them down failure to due so will result in being shot down

[Separatist Peoples]

I am for this as long as it gets revised i have territories already in place for emergency landing and international air ports in place they are allowed to fly over our nation so long as they do nt fly over capitol if they do a squadran of fighter jets will fly up to force them down failure to due so will result in being shot down

"Shot down? Over your Capitol? What a silly thing to do; you'd end up with a disabled jetliner full of fuel and kinetic energy slamming into the heart of your nation."

[Lexicor]

OOC: There are famous cases in which a refugees that are denied asylum status but cannot return home end up living in the extraterritorial terminals of international airports. I have been reading up on one particular case that is really quite fascinating. In 1977, two years before the Islamic Revolution came to the forefront of international media, the Shah and his US backed police state were dealing with sporadic but noticeable street demonstrations; particularly in the south-south east regions of the country.

Mehran Karimi Nasseri, was one such protester that was allegedly expelled during this period of unrest and because of his claimed ties to Scotland via his mother; he applied for refugee status to several different states and after an eleven year legal battle that went all the way to the UNHRC Commissioner was granted refugee status and his application was accepted by the British. He took a flight to Charles de Gaulle International Airport en route to London Heathrow where he either had his briefcase stolen or misplaced his immigration papers. Since this was pre 9/11 airport security he was allowed onto the flight.

When he landed in London he was immediately sent back to France for failing to show his immigration papers. After arriving in France he was originally arrested by the French Authorities. Then his entry was ruled legal and he took residence in the international airport of Terminal 1; being unable to go back to Iran and legally not being allowed to enter France. He lived in the airport from 1988-2007 and his story was the inspiration for the Tom Hanks movie "The Terminal."

I just found it fascinating!

[Normlpeople]

Asserts all international airliners freedoms to do the following:

I. The freedom to transport passengers and cargo from an transportation hubs homeland to other countries;
II. The freedom to transport passengers and cargo from other countries to an aircraft's homeland;
III. The freedom to carry air traffic between countries other than the aircraft's homeland;

Clover spoke up "I apologize for being absent from the debate, however, domestic matters required my attention. This is where I have the most problem with the draft. International Airliners, when they cross into a nations sovereign airspace, have the freedom to do what that nation says they do. The nation itself states rather a particular airline flies in and out of its territory, or rather air traffic originating from a particular nation is permitted within the airspace. While you attempt to maintain national sovereignty over a nations airspace, you effectively defeat it with this particular section.

This requires correction, or complete overhaul. I do understand what you are attempting to do here, however, I do think it is overstepping boundaries in some cases, starting with this."

[Lexicor]

I could add the boilerplate: "subject to regulation and approval from the flights final destination" to clarify that freedom to fly does not force you to allow flights into your airspace.

Would that placate your concerns Clover?

[Tinfect]

:snip:
Designates areas within international airports prior to clearance by relevant government body or private contractor as extraterritorial bodies under the legal jurisdiction of the nation in which the airport lies;

Establishes those areas now deemed extraterritorial as free trade zones exempt from all taxes, duties and levies;
:snip:

Now hold on a minute, you want me to just give up the territory around an airport, that happens to allow international flights, and establish a free-trade zone, which I am unable to tax, or regulate?
Are you high?
Perhaps I am just misunderstanding, but through my reading of this, it looks like I would have no control over what comes in or out of my nation through these airports.

You mention how I would be able to re-direct, or deny landing to flights that I have legitimate suspicions of carrying bombs, or other such weapons of terrorism, but, how would I even be able to do that, if I cannot station my own Security Forces in the airport when the craft comes in? People could just come right off the plane with legally obtained machinegun from a neighboring nation, and hold the whole undefended place hostage. In the event of such a Crime, would I be able to send in my own forces to stop the attack? Because you certainly are not suggesting an International Peacekeeping Force for this, and I sincerely hope you do not intend for me to allow a foreign security force into, or near, as it would be should this pass, my borders.

Another point of contention, is the creation of a free trade zone.
Now, why in all the nine hells would I want to allow anyone to come into my nation, and sell whatever they like, free from taxation, or consequence? This does not benefit me in any way.
From my reading, all I can tell is that this resolution would allow literally anything to be sold, and bought within the International Airports.
This is absolutely unacceptable. I would lose out on Trade Revenue, and the tariffs from the admittedly limited private trade.
Or, if I were allowed to preform a check outside the extraterritorial zone, it would totally defeat the point of forcing a free-trade zone in the first place. Controlled goods would be confiscated, and/or destroyed as required by law, money would be lost by tourists, or returning citizens, and many of these people would be arrested on ownership charges.
I can see no way that forcing a free-trade zone onto a nation could possibly result in anything good for Socialist/Communist nations.

[Jarish Inyo]

Forcing free trade zones is unacceptable. They do not benefit any nation.

[Lexicor]

Forcing free trade zones is unacceptable. They do not benefit any nation.

Theoretically those areas that are extraterritorial (i.e the terminals of international airports before and after customs) are not under your de jure sovereignty. It just means you can't add a sales tax onto the products being purchased in these international zones (read: Duty Free), but the companies are still regulated by your state and you can tax their income.

I might well remove that clause at some point if it really is a sticking point or water it down as optional. I mean you don't apply property taxes to embassies do you?

[Vancon]

A lot of the things you mentioned already exist in the world of aviation, such as a universal language (english) and a universal time (Zulu time)

In terms of what an airport is, it's pretty simple. It's an aerodrome with a special certificate that allows it to call itself an airport. the certificate is vitally important and almost like a bible for airport workers since it is the lifeline that they have to be able to work there. There is a list a mile high of things that airports need to have so that they can have their certificate.

Look through this for some info taht might help you a bit.

[Tinfect]

Theoretically those areas that are extraterritorial (i.e the terminals of international airports before and after customs) are not under your de jure sovereignty. It just means you can't add a sales tax onto the products being purchased in these international zones (read: Duty Free), but the companies are still regulated by your state and you can tax their income.

I might well remove that clause at some point if it really is a sticking point or water it down as optional. I mean you don't apply property taxes to embassies do you?

If you take out the Free-Trade Zone requirement, you would likely see quite a bit less opposition, although it would not ease concerns over the security of these newly extraterritorial airports (See my earlier post for details).

On another note, no, we do not charge property taxes on embassies, we charge a Diplomatic Mission Tax, it is much higher.

[Lexicor]

1. The metagame mechanics of NS already make English the working language and make the "times" in RP all Zulu Times.
2. I really don't want to go into specifics of regulation in this resolution. That is best a project left for someone with the patience for legalese and nuance rather than abstract principles.
3. The clause pertaining to Free Trade Zones will be watered down to an "Urges".

[Normlpeople]

I could add the boilerplate: "subject to regulation and approval from the flights final destination" to clarify that freedom to fly does not force you to allow flights into your airspace.

Would that placate your concerns Clover?

"It would indeed, yes."

OOC: The most recent example of this in action was missed: Snowden.

[Lexicor]

I could add the boilerplate: "subject to regulation and approval from the flights final destination" to clarify that freedom to fly does not force you to allow flights into your airspace.

Would that placate your concerns Clover?

"It would indeed, yes."

OOC: The most recent example of this in action was missed: Snowden.

"The changes have been made."

OOC: Snowden was in Hong Kong when he gave the information he had to Glen Greenwald. Not sure what happened but I am pretty sure he then took a flight to Domadavo Airport in Moscow while his claims for asylum were reviewed by our glorious Czar Putin!

[Normlpeople]

OOC: Snowden was in Hong Kong when he gave the information he had to Glen Greenwald. Not sure what happened but I am pretty sure he then took a flight to Domadavo Airport in Moscow while his claims for asylum were reviewed by our glorious Czar Putin!

OOC: IIRC, he was bound for somewhere else (I want to say Ecuador, but its not important) and got held up at the airport when his visa was cancelled or something to that effect. Either way, he lived in this area for quite some time before he went to Russia and asked for asylum...

IC: Clover spoke up "I hate to be such a pain on this point, but coffee has improved my clear thinking on the new line. Final destination of the flight could very well lead to situations where nations are giving approval for stopovers within other sovereign nations where they have no jurisdiction. Perhaps "Approval of the nation where the landing is to take place" or something to that effect?"

[Lexicor]

OOC: Snowden was in Hong Kong when he gave the information he had to Glen Greenwald. Not sure what happened but I am pretty sure he then took a flight to Domadavo Airport in Moscow while his claims for asylum were reviewed by our glorious Czar Putin!

OOC: IIRC, he was bound for somewhere else (I want to say Ecuador, but its not important) and got held up at the airport when his visa was cancelled or something to that effect. Either way, he lived in this area for quite some time before he went to Russia and asked for asylum...

IC: Clover spoke up "I hate to be such a pain on this point, but coffee has improved my clear thinking on the new line. Final destination of the flight could very well lead to situations where nations are giving approval for stopovers within other sovereign nations where they have no jurisdiction. Perhaps "Approval of the nation where the landing is to take place" or something to that effect?"

"The changes have been made."

OOC: *shrugs*

[Lexicor]

OOC: ((bumping this))

[Separatist Peoples]

"It is the firm position of my delegation to object strenuously to titles that begin with the preposition "On". "On X" is a title generally reserved for essays. I would be quite pleased to see literally any other title, ambassador."

[The Dark Star Republic]

"Agreed, Ambassador Bell!

"Regarding the draft, I'm not sure about 'absolute sovereignty over its own airspace' without defining what that actually means."

~ Daisy Chimusic
Legislative Intern and Professional Pedant

[Lexicor]

"Agreed, Ambassador Bell!

"Regarding the draft, I'm not sure about 'absolute sovereignty over its own airspace' without defining what that actually means."

~ Daisy Chimusic
Legislative Intern and Professional Pedant

OOC: IRL has held this up for a bit, but im coming back to this. I am working on a definition of "absolute sovereignty" and it will take a few more days of playing around and simmering to get one to paste in the draft. I am near the character limit ceiling so not too much more is going to be able to fit into this draft.

[Lexicor]

Coming back around to this!