[PASSED] Anti-Counterfeiting Pact

[Araraukar]

Wait, I tried to make something like this awhile back, and you (and a bunch of other people) shot it down and said it was an awful idea from the start!

"What's your point, ambassador?

A desperate effort to pimp their draft, I'd guess. [OOC: Balenderg, it's very bad manners to do so.]

[Defwa]

"What's your point, ambassador?

A desperate effort to pimp their draft, I'd guess. [OOC: Balenderg, it's very bad manners to do so.]

OOC: Well we all do it on occasion buy my new album, Art Pop, on itunes

[Araraukar]

A desperate effort to pimp their draft, I'd guess. [OOC: Balenderg, it's very bad manners to do so.]

OOC: Well we all do it on occasion buy my new album, Art Pop, on itunes

OOC: That wouldn't be just bad manners, that'd be against the rules. Still:

[Balenderg]

You wanted my nation to engrave its chewing gum! This proposal makes no such preposterous restrictions on those nations who use consumables as currency.

Engrave didn't mean seriously engrave. We meant to engrave it by making it have tiny indentations at certain points.

[Balenderg]

"What's your point, ambassador?

A desperate effort to pimp their draft, I'd guess. [OOC: Balenderg, it's very bad manners to do so.]

OOC: Yeah, I only did that because my draft is over. It's not that I was pimping it or whatever, it's just that it seemed a little like copying my idea. I'm not saying it is, but it seems a little like it. Especially since they were one of the people who said it was a completely bad idea that couldn't be done.

[Balenderg]

Wait, I tried to make something like this awhile back, and you (and a bunch of other people) shot it down and said it was an awful idea from the start!

Link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=309242&hilit=Counterfeit

"What's your point, ambassador? This draft is entirely different. It approaches the problem from a fresh angle and uses entirely different mechanisms of enforcement which are infinitely more palpable then your draft was, I'm afraid."

My point is that you said my idea was not a good topic for a WA Resolution, and then used the same topic as a suggestion.

EDIT: OOC: Also, some person offered you the chance to take over it, and you refused. I'm not complaining about that, I would have let you take over it (so long as you gave me credit) but you did not and then later made this.

[Flamels Stone]

[OOC: Do you know a edit option exists? So you dont have to post 2 or even 3 times?]

[Defwa]

"What's your point, ambassador? This draft is entirely different. It approaches the problem from a fresh angle and uses entirely different mechanisms of enforcement which are infinitely more palpable then your draft was, I'm afraid."

My point is that you said my idea was not a good topic for a WA Resolution, and then used the same topic as a suggestion.

EDIT: OOC: Also, some person offered you the chance to take over it, and you refused. I'm not complaining about that, I would have let you take over it (so long as you gave me credit) but you did not and then later made this.

OOCwhy would you get credit for anything? You're not the first person to notice counterfeiting. You have done nothing to aid the development of this proposal. All you had was an essay that displayed a failure to comprehend the actual problem

[Balenderg]

[OOC: Do you know a edit option exists? So you dont have to post 2 or even 3 times?]

OOC: They were all replies to different things. I edited one of them two times as well.

[Balenderg]

My point is that you said my idea was not a good topic for a WA Resolution, and then used the same topic as a suggestion.

EDIT: OOC: Also, some person offered you the chance to take over it, and you refused. I'm not complaining about that, I would have let you take over it (so long as you gave me credit) but you did not and then later made this.

OOCwhy would you get credit for anything? You're not the first person to notice counterfeiting. You have done nothing to aid the development of this proposal. All you had was an essay that displayed a failure to comprehend the actual problem

OOC: I know I am not, I said I should get credit if he accepted the offer to take over my draft, which he did not.

[Defwa]

OOCwhy would you get credit for anything? You're not the first person to notice counterfeiting. You have done nothing to aid the development of this proposal. All you had was an essay that displayed a failure to comprehend the actual problem

OOC: I know I am not, I said I should get credit if he accepted the offer to take over my draft, which he did not.

OOC who would volunteer for that?
By edit, he meant you can reply to multiple things in one post. Copy the response to one post and paste it under the quote for the other player.

[Balenderg]

OOC: I know I am not, I said I should get credit if he accepted the offer to take over my draft, which he did not.

OOC who would volunteer for that?
By edit, he meant you can reply to multiple things in one post. Copy the response to one post and paste it under the quote for the other player.

OOC: Thanks, I did not know I could do that. I tried once but it just showed the boxes that say [/quote] and what I copy-pasted in between them. And he did not volunteer, a person suggested he should. I was going to reply to say I was ok with him "helping" me (taking over the draft and giving me credit for the original concept), but he refused faster than I said my response.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: this draft is not based, in any way, on yours, Balenderg. I haven't taken over anything. I've started a draft of my own. None of the work can be credited to your effort, with the possible exception of the debate, and that can be credited moreso to the other participants then your contributions. Similar or identical topics are often the focus of multiple drafts in this forum. I'd you want credit as a coauthor, you will need to significantly and independently contribute to this draft's final version. I'm very sorry for the confusion. If you have further concerns, please feel free to TG me, as this thread isn't the place for this.

[Balenderg]

OOC: this draft is not based, in any way, on yours, Balenderg. I haven't taken over anything. I've started a draft of my own. None of the work can be credited to your effort, with the possible exception of the debate, and that can be credited moreso to the other participants then your contributions. Similar or identical topics are often the focus of multiple drafts in this forum. I'd you want credit as a coauthor, you will need to significantly and independently contribute to this draft's final version. I'm very sorry for the confusion. If you have further concerns, please feel free to TG me, as this thread isn't the place for this.

OOC: Ok, I know you did not take over my draft. I didn't want credit as a Co Author, because this was not my draft. I was just slightly annoyed that you said that the basis for my idea was bad, and then made one off of the same base.

[Araraukar]

I was just slightly annoyed that you said that the basis for my idea was bad, and then made one off of the same base.

OOC: A general idea, in this case anti-counterfeit, can be approached from different angles. Yours wasn't a very good angle, is all.

[Balenderg]

I was just slightly annoyed that you said that the basis for my idea was bad, and then made one off of the same base.

OOC: A general idea, in this case anti-counterfeit, can be approached from different angles. Yours wasn't a very good angle, is all.

OOC: Give me an example of how it was bad. I know people said it was, they just were not very specific.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC: A general idea, in this case anti-counterfeit, can be approached from different angles. Yours wasn't a very good angle, is all.

OOC: Give me an example of how it was bad. I know people said it was, they just were not very specific.

Well, for one thing, it doesn't actually seem to outlaw counterfeiting...

[Balenderg]

OOC: Give me an example of how it was bad. I know people said it was, they just were not very specific.

Well, for one thing, it doesn't actually seem to outlaw counterfeiting...

OOC: Well I thought that was a given.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Well I thought that was a given.

OOC: The resolution does what it says it does. So if it doesn't say "criminalize this", even if its name was "Criminalize This", it won't have that effect. The only one were you might get away with forgoing that, is a repeal, and even then it might get it removed.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Well, for one thing, it doesn't actually seem to outlaw counterfeiting...

OOC: Well I thought that was a given.

OOC: When writing laws, here as in real life, Captain Queeg turns out to be right: "You can't assume a GODDAMN THING in the [world assembly/congress/parliament/U***** N*****s/courtroom]!" There's an extraordinarily fine line between micromanagement and useless vagueness; even folks who've been here for years don't always tread it quite right. That's part of why it's actually a pretty big accomplishment to get something passed, and why those resolutions that do pass have typically been allowed to percolate in the GA forum for weeks if not months on end before being submitted to a vote. Writing good law means making sure all contingencies are covered and you haven't forgotten even the tiniest possibility, but simultaneously refraining from listing every. single. little. friggin. thing that might come up.

In your proposal, the centralized WA bureau for currency inspection and counterfeit detection isn't a bad idea; but the rest of it... well, you're requiring nations to, in some cases, drastically overhaul their currency to prevent something that you haven't even bothered to prohibit(!), you've created a committee but not required nations to do anything in particular with respect to it beyond simply giving it samples of counterfeit currency (e.g. no provision for it to aid investigations, no requirement that nations aid each others' investigations or the committee's...), and your punctuation is inconsistent.

So now if your proposal were to pass, but someone else came along later with a better and more comprehensive scheme for handling the same problem, we'd have to go through a repeal of yours first before we could get anything done (since both amendments and duplications are illegal).

In other words, there's room for legislation in the area that you noticed; but your proposal was very far from ready for enactment. This one is a lot closer.

I hope that's all helpful; if you've got further questions, it's best to address them either by telegram or in a different thread.

[Balenderg]

OOC: Well I thought that was a given.

OOC: When writing laws, here as in real life, Captain Queeg turns out to be right: "You can't assume a GODDAMN THING in the [world assembly/congress/parliament/U***** N*****s/courtroom]!" There's an extraordinarily fine line between micromanagement and useless vagueness; even folks who've been here for years don't always tread it quite right. That's part of why it's actually a pretty big accomplishment to get something passed, and why those resolutions that do pass have typically been allowed to percolate in the GA forum for weeks if not months on end before being submitted to a vote. Writing good law means making sure all contingencies are covered and you haven't forgotten even the tiniest possibility, but simultaneously refraining from listing every. single. little. friggin. thing that might come up.

In your proposal, the centralized WA bureau for currency inspection and counterfeit detection isn't a bad idea; but the rest of it... well, you're requiring nations to, in some cases, drastically overhaul their currency to prevent something that you haven't even bothered to prohibit(!), you've created a committee but not required nations to do anything in particular with respect to it beyond simply giving it samples of counterfeit currency (e.g. no provision for it to aid investigations, no requirement that nations aid each others' investigations or the committee's...), and your punctuation is inconsistent.

So now if your proposal were to pass, but someone else came along later with a better and more comprehensive scheme for handling the same problem, we'd have to go through a repeal of yours first before we could get anything done (since both amendments and duplications are illegal).

In other words, there's room for legislation in the area that you noticed; but your proposal was very far from ready for enactment. This one is a lot closer.

I hope that's all helpful; if you've got further questions, it's best to address them either by telegram or in a different thread.

OOC: I didn't even expect any nation to allow counterfeiting. Why allow something that will ruin your economy?

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: let's drag this back on topic, my draft. Balenderg's draft should be discussed in Balenderg's thread or TG. I'm going to look at having a mod clean this up. Thanks for your patience.

[Balenderg]

OOC: let's drag this back on topic, my draft. Balenderg's draft should be discussed in Balenderg's thread or TG. I'm going to look at having a mod clean this up. Thanks for your patience.

OOC: That sounds like a good idea. I was out of argument juice (a.k.a, I lost) anyway.

[Hakio]

"I'm still of the opinion that a formal definition of the crime at hand, i.e. counterfeiting, should be formally and specifically defined." Sia states while adjusting her papers on her desk. "I prefer the resolutions I support to be as airtight and specific as possible."

[Separatist Peoples]

"I'm still of the opinion that a formal definition of the crime at hand, i.e. counterfeiting, should be formally and specifically defined." Sia states while adjusting her papers on her desk. "I prefer the resolutions I support to be as airtight and specific as possible."

"Ambassador, the term counterfeiting has a very specific use in most, possibly all, vernacular. Much like "murder" directly implies an unlawful killing, counterfeiting implies devious or unlawful duplication. Thus why the term "duplicate" isn't used. I feel that this term obviates the need for a definition, as dictionary-abusing delegations will simply distort a different term to avoid compliance if so inclined. If you can provide an example of any confusion, ambassador, I'll happily address it."