[IDEA] Work-Life Harmony Accord

[Three Weasels]

Work-Life Harmony Accord
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant

---

The World Assembly,

Acknowledges the importance of work and its affect on livelihood;
Recognizes that many cultures of this august body prize dedication to one's profession or career;
Reasons that despite this, individuals may require personal time;
Believes rest is important for productivity as downtime will allow an individual to replenish their mental and physical batteries;

Considering these values, the WA hereby mandates,

1. That each nation grant their work force one day of rest per working week;
2. That individuals are permitted to retain 2/3rds of their day for personal time;
3. That any required overtime be reasonably compensated;
4. That individuals are entitled to determine their voluntary overtime;

Exempts from this requirement:
- Self-employed individuals
- Emergency workers, including health care professionals, firefighters, officers of the law
- Military personnel

We're aware -- we're neither the first nor the last to take a crack at this. However, we're trying a new approach. Rather than dictate a specific number of hours, we're trying to pie approach. With a pie, it doesn't matter how much you have. Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week.

The thirds is based on the idea of: 1/3 for work, 1/3 for rest (sleep, relax etc), 1/3 for everything else including errands.

We took a liberal approach. We felt we shouldn't prohibit any overtime, it is still permitted but with the benefit of compensation for time spent.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC

Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week.

If you're insistent on indulging the planetwankers, then not all nations have the same number of days per week or weeks per year. Why is "hour" an unreasonable unit of time for universal legislation, yet "day" and "week" reasonable?

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Category: Social Justice

Social Justice - A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

What necessarily do workplace restrictions (EDIT: aside from a single provision about overtime pay) have to do with redistribution of wealth?

[Macwick]

I hope my colleague from Tree Weasels is aware of the draft proposal put forward by my nation on a 30 hour working week. I expect this will face some of the issues raised against our proposal. We hope you will resist any suggestions to decrease the amount of personal time. We acknowledge that this is a much weaker proposal than ours.

To answer the representative from Omigodtheykilledkenny I would have thought that this proposal would fall under the Social Justice category because it increases the welfare of citizens and ensures that some workers do not have to work huge amounts of time compared to others and so improves equality.

In the mandate section, shouldn’t it be “at least one day of rest per working week”. Would you consider adding something that would say allow a worker to work more than 6 days in a row so long as they get the rest period at the end.

Something like “each nation to allow their work force to work ten days in a row so long as they have at least two rest days afterwards”.

We are also not happy that overtime has not been included. Studies have shown that if a human works for 80 hours in a week after about 4 weeks their productivity has dropped so much they can only produce what they could have produce in 40 hours. It takes I think about three weeks to return productivity of 40 hours back to normal levels. Would it be within the terms of your proposal to restrict overtime to a further third of the day averaged over say a week? I am not happy about two of your exemptions but I can understand why you have them.

I suggest you look again at the strength, personally I would have thought this would have mild effects, especially as our own proposal which we classified as significant goes much further than yours and we are still considering down grading it to mild.


OOC Just being nit-picky:
in reasons could you change it to “individuals are requireD personal time?
Also on a personal level I don’t like to see “Act” at the end of proposals, because these are resolutions.

[Flamels Stone]

OOC:
c)That any required overtime be reasonably compensated;
with personal time or with money?

btw seeing what appened to the 30 hour week proposal i dont think this will go well for you .....

[Jarish Inyo]

Don't listen to Macwick. He's against anything that allows employees to get more then the minimum to live on.

As for this proposal, I don't see anything in it that would stop me from voting for it. I would be interested in your opinion as what would be a reasonable compensation for working overtime. Also, how would you suggest compensating someone that is paid a salary and not hourly for working overtime?

[Three Weasels]

Don't listen to Macwick. He's against anything that allows employees to get more then the minimum to live on.

As for this proposal, I don't see anything in it that would stop me from voting for it. I would be interested in your opinion as what would be a reasonable compensation for working overtime. Also, how would you suggest compensating someone that is paid a salary and not hourly for working overtime?

OOC:
c)That any required overtime be reasonably compensated;
with personal time or with money?

btw seeing what appened to the 30 hour week proposal i dont think this will go well for you .....

We do not define reasonable compensation because we're taking cultural and financial differences into consideration. We don't dictate compensation because it's way too micro-manage-y. We're working with the "reasonable nation theory" and "good faith". After all, what's reasonable in one culture may be excessive or inadequate in another.

Ah, but you see, we're not limiting it to 30 hours. This accounts for nations with a longer solar rotation. It also accounts for nations where a 30 hour work week would be utterly unfeasible because of how closely they may rotate around the sun. There is also the potential for weeks or days to be longer or shorter. For example, our average work week is 80 hours. However, because of our solar cycle, our weeks are longer than most, 80 hours is entirely reasonable to us.

We also don't prohibit any overtime. It is simply designed to ensure that overtime is not forced on individuals without compensation, while allowing others to work to their heart's content. 30 hours is unreasonable. 100 hours is unreasonable. a percentage or fractional value allows the nation to work with the law without sacrificing production. The value of 2/3rds can be tinkered with but it's a working ball park value. 3-3-3 - work-sleep-errands. The other thing is, we deliberately left it so it's up to the nation if it wants to count worked as as those strictly on the clock without breaks.

OOC

Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week.

If you're insistent on indulging the planetwankers, then not all nations have the same number of days per week or weeks per year. Why is "hour" an unreasonable unit of time for universal legislation, yet "day" and "week" reasonable?

OOC: Because we are a planetwanker.

We don't define a specific set of hours because of reasons stated.

[The Dark Star Republic]

We don't define a specific set of hours because of reasons stated.

OOC: Your only "reasons stated" are that "[n]ot all nations have the same number of hours per day or week", and to repeat, by the same logic not all nations have the same number of days per week or weeks per year! A day on Mercury lasts far, far longer than an Earth day.

If time isn't universal, then time isn't universal and the particular measure of time - hour, day, week - isn't relevant. But the WA has recognised hours per week before, and every resolution comes stamped with a time in days, months, years, so it's pretty flimsy to claim anyway.

[The Eternal Kawaii]

Category: Social Justice

Social Justice - A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

What necessarily do workplace restrictions (EDIT: aside from a single provision about overtime pay) have to do with redistribution of wealth?

Perhaps "Human Rights" would be a better category? The proposal seems to be about the right not to be overworked.

[Macwick]

I have a couple of questions for the representative from Jarish Inyo. What is the current average weekly working time in your nation?

Please can you explain how this proposal in your opinion gets round GAR 68 National Economic Freedoms:

DEFINES "commerce" to include the sale, production, and consumption of a product or service
...

REQUIRES that no commerce be generally restricted by the WA unless:

1. Restricted by prior legislation, or
2. The enterprise causes an extreme hazard to national populations

I am wondering if the representative from Three Weasels is taking the advice of the representative from Jarish Inyo and just ignoring my comments.

I do note that he has changed

Reasons that despite this, individuals are require personal time;

TO

Reasons that despite this, individuals may require personal time;

And “ACT” to “ACCORD” both without even saying he was making any changes! I wonder if there were any other changes that I might have missed? I didn’t even get a thank you for my supportive comments.

I suggest removing “may” to retain its former unconditional strength.

I image he has a reason why he has rejected my suggestion of “each nation to allow their work force to work ten days in a row so long as they have at least two rest days afterwards” but he is just keeping it a secret from everyone. However my interpretation of “each nation grant their work force one day of rest per working week” means that my people will no longer to be able to have two of three days of rest per week. Which really just makes their welfare worse.

[Normlpeople]

Work-Life Harmony Accord
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant

---

The World Assembly,

Acknowledges the importance of work and its affect on livelihood;
Recognizes that many cultures of this august body prize dedication to one's profession or career;
Reasons that despite this, individuals may require personal time;
Believes rest is important for productivity as downtime will allow an individual to replenish their mental and physical batteries;

Considering these values, the WA hereby mandates,

1. That each nation grant their work force one day of rest per working week;
2. That individuals are permitted to retain 2/3rds of their day for personal time;
3. That any required overtime be reasonably compensated;
4. That individuals are entitled to determine their voluntary overtime;

Exempts from this requirement:
- Self-employed individuals
- Emergency workers, including health care professionals, firefighters, officers of the law
- Military personnel

Clover smiles as she reads the draft. "While I find some aspects of this acceptable, I do feel you have some issues that require addressing. My first issue would be the 2nd clause. I personally find specifying maximum shifts to be a very bad idea. Doing so is not only incredibly micro-managing, but also fails to take into account such things as unpaid break times, lunch hours, and longer shifts. It is common in my nation for workers to work 12 hour days, and doing so allows for more days off in between. This would end the practice.

I also note you do not take averaging into account. It is also common practice in my nation to determine overtime based on the number of hours worked in a pay period, not in one day. This also seems to be the custom in many nations. There is nothing wrong with being forced to work more each day, provided that the worker receives the time off, or compensation, at another time.

I have no issue with granting a day of rest a week, nor compensating employees for overtime worked. I do not, however, believe the WA is in a place to micro-manage the employment law down to the point where they determine shift length."

[Bears Armed]

Usual question: Why is this an international issue?

Also as usual with such proposals: But what about harvest-time?

And

Considering these values, the WA hereby mandates,

a.That each nation grant their work force one day of rest per working week;

If you do go ahead, shouldn't it say "at least" before "one day"?

[Jarish Inyo]

I have a couple of questions for the representative from Jarish Inyo. What is the current average weekly working time in your nation?

Please can you explain how this proposal in your opinion gets round GAR 68 National Economic Freedoms:

DEFINES "commerce" to include the sale, production, and consumption of a product or service
...

REQUIRES that no commerce be generally restricted by the WA unless:

1. Restricted by prior legislation, or
2. The enterprise causes an extreme hazard to national populations

I am wondering if the representative from Three Weasels is taking the advice of the representative from Jarish Inyo and just ignoring my comments.

I do note that he has changed

Reasons that despite this, individuals are require personal time;

TO

Reasons that despite this, individuals may require personal time;

And “ACT” to “ACCORD” both without even saying he was making any changes! I wonder if there were any other changes that I might have missed? I didn’t even get a thank you for my supportive comments.

I suggest removing “may” to retain its former unconditional strength.

I image he has a reason why he has rejected my suggestion of “each nation to allow their work force to work ten days in a row so long as they have at least two rest days afterwards” but he is just keeping it a secret from everyone. However my interpretation of “each nation grant their work force one day of rest per working week” means that my people will no longer to be able to have two of three days of rest per week. Which really just makes their welfare worse.

It's funny that you bring up GAR 68 as your completely ignore it. This proposal doesn't effect commerce, unlike your proposal. It is more inline with the practices of many WA member states.

Many of my citizens work a 40 hour week. Some work more if they choose too.

If the representative of Macwick wishes to know more about my nations economic policy, please send me a telegram. I will be happy to explain it to him.

[Defwa]

Let's remember species and tech level as a factor as well. Not everyone requires a third or their time for sleep. Some night multitask sleep and work simultaneously. This is simply not possible to estimate effectively at an international level in such limited space

[Araraukar]

OOC

Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week.

If you're insistent on indulging the planetwankers

OOC: Romans had an 8-day week. On Earth.

EDIT: Also, you're again, intentionally, confusing roleplay with real life. In roleplay form any nation can insist on any reason they want to argue for or against a proposal. It is allowed. The proposal writer can ignore it if they want, but IC reasoning is valid in IC context.

I hope my colleague from Tree Weasels is aware of the draft proposal put forward by my nation on a 30 hour working week.

OOC: Pimping your own proposal in someone's else thread is bad form.

IC: I don't see how either of these proposals is anything close to an international issue, nor anything but micromanagery.

A day on Mercury lasts far, far longer than an Earth day.

OOC: A day on Mercury is longer than its year.

Wikipedia wrote:
An observer on Mercury would therefore see only one day every two years.

[Wrapper]

OOC: Romans had an 8-day week. On Earth.

OOC: and the Mayans had two different types of weeks, one with 13 days and one with 20.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: And the Norse week was 5 days long. So? This is all supporting the idea that assuming 7 days per week or 52 weeks per year is just as arbitrary as assuming 24 hours per day.

[Araraukar]

OOC: And the Norse week was 5 days long. So? This is all supporting the idea that assuming 7 days per week or 52 weeks per year is just as arbitrary as assuming 24 hours per day.

OOC: You were complaining about planetwankers having different-lengths of week. What you probably meant was "culturewankers", since 7-day week hasn't always been the norm even on Earth.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: And the Norse week was 5 days long. So? This is all supporting the idea that assuming 7 days per week or 52 weeks per year is just as arbitrary as assuming 24 hours per day.

OOC: You were complaining about planetwankers having different-lengths of week.

OOC: No, I wasn't. I think you need to reread my post if that's what you took from it.

Either
- "Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week" and therefore a requirement of "one day of rest per working week" is unreasonable
Or
- Hours, days, weeks, years are universally comparable reference points for the WA and therefore not having "the same number of hours per day" is irrelevant.

But it can't be both.

[Lexicor]

Why does the WA hate free market capitalism of late?

Also, how does not having a work-life harmony pose an extreme hazard to national populations?

My support is contingent upon how these questions are answered. Abstaining for now, assuming this gets to vote. Will leave draft commentary later.

[Araraukar]

OOC post.

Either
- "Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week" and therefore a requirement of "one day of rest per working week" is unreasonable

This is basically my stance - the whole thing, this and the 30-hours one both, is just ridiculous micromanagery, because of the RP realities.

- Hours, days, weeks, years are universally comparable reference points for the WA and therefore not having "the same number of hours per day" is irrelevant.

And this is what those who would argue that RP doesn't matter (and often call the RPers [insert word]wankers) and RL definitions should be good enough, go for. Since you resort to the word-wanker-use, I've pegged you as to being in this category.

But it can't be both.

As with most things around here, it's one or the other depending on your POV, so it's both at once as a whole. Like how the glass can be half empty and half full at the same time, just depending on your POV.

But, as usually, none of what I say will change your mind, so going to stop the OOC threadjack here on my part.

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC:

"Not all nations have the same number of hours per day or week" and therefore a requirement of "one day of rest per working week" is unreasonable

This is basically my stance - the whole thing, this and the 30-hours one both, is just ridiculous micromanagery, because of the RP realities.

Conveniently ignoring that the WA has multiple times acknowledged such concepts of time. For example, the Diplomat Protection Act permits:

A diplomat may be detained for nonmedical reasons for 24 hours in cases where they serve a direct threat to the wellbeing of others, such as driving while intoxicated or other similarly dangerous activities, or longer, with the agreement of the nation they serve

and more pertinently, the Living Wage Act considers:

a person working on average 30 hours or more per week to be in full-time employment, counting paid holiday as time worked;
...
a person working on average between 10 and 30 hours per week to be in part-time employment, counting paid holiday as time worked;

Cob & Gobbles engaged in a great deal more roleplaying than anyone here, so you'll excuse me if I don't put much stock in the argument that including a reference to such concepts of time would completely destroy RP fictions.

[Araraukar]

Conveniently ignoring that the WA has multiple times acknowledged such concepts of time. For example, the Diplomat Protection Act permits:

A diplomat may be detained for nonmedical reasons for 24 hours in cases where they serve a direct threat to the wellbeing of others, such as driving while intoxicated or other similarly dangerous activities, or longer, with the agreement of the nation they serve

and more pertinently, the Living Wage Act considers:

a person working on average 30 hours or more per week to be in full-time employment, counting paid holiday as time worked;
...
a person working on average between 10 and 30 hours per week to be in part-time employment, counting paid holiday as time worked;

IC: The first refers just to a length of time someone can be held, it doesn't set a recurring daily/weekly limit, nor does it specify the length of an hour, if that was your additional argument.

Living Wage Act only defines what counts as full-time and part-time, it doesn't seek to restrict the working hours to fit those limits. Nor does it make any mention of to the length of a week. If a nation's week is shorter than 30 (or 10) of their hours, that will of course create an issue that will be hard to solve with international legislation.

To the author; my main argument still isn't the length of the week, day or hour. It's the fact that this type of proposal seeks a one-size-fits-all restriction to put on the the WA nations. At least this one deems it fit to leave certain types of working people outside of the restriction - which to me reads as accepting it is at least partially silly/unviable. The proposal doesn't prove that lack of free time is a prevalent problem in the member nations as is. Neither does the other proposal currently up for debate. I would suggest that this is because it isn't a problem, and both proposals are attempting to solve an issue that isn't an issue.

Creating a problem just so you can solve it with a WA-wide resolution isn't sensible, and will lead to issues like the various lengths of weeks/days/hours in some nations. If proof can be provided that the issue is real, I'll be ready to reconsider my position.

[Three Weasels]

Creating a problem just so you can solve it with a WA-wide resolution isn't sensible, and will lead to issues like the various lengths of weeks/days/hours in some nations. If proof can be provided that the issue is real, I'll be ready to reconsider my position.

Does a problem need to occur? Does law need to be reactionary? Can't it be proactive? Yes, there is no "problem" to speak of, but that doesn't mean there isn't likely to be one in the foreseeable future. It seems most if not the majority of World Assembly legislation hinges on the knee-jerk reaction principle. We wait for a problem to rear it's ugly head then we scratch our collective heads and wonder how to address it.

We know that there are various lengths for hours/day/weeks. Hence, we wouldn't define a these items. These terms are common - even if you want to call it quatloots, purquats, and friglums. These are universally understood terms but the lengths aren't.

[Araraukar]

Does law need to be reactionary? Can't it be proactive?

It can. In international issues.

Yes, there is no "problem" to speak of, but that doesn't mean there isn't likely to be one in the foreseeable future.

And proof of that is... what? Also, how is it an international issue if one nation's workforce is unhappy? What international problem does it cause?

Also, one could make the case that since this places restrictions on commerce (via restricting people's working hours and thus the company's overall production, unless they hire more people, which in turn means more costs to the company), the last clause of NEF might come into play. And, as stated, there is no "extreme hazard to national populations", as there is no issue in existence.

I think that most of this issue would go away if you removed the clause b. It smells of nothing but micromanagement, and your list of excemptions means that even you see how it can be a stupid requirement. There is nothing in the books that doesn't stop companies getting around this by making all their employees "private contractors" to the company, thus making them self-employed. [OOC: This has happened in RL.] As it is, it seems to be aimed at large corporations, which raises the question, why? What do you have against large corporations?