[DRAFT] Rules On Wagering

[Tabcorp Park]

The World Assembly,

Accepts that gambling generates significant revenue streams in to their nations economy, whilst also creating employment opportunities and creates tourism opportunities to those nations who have a gambling holiday resort(s),

Believing that protection is required for both the consumer and the cross border gambling operators in the interest of fairness for all parties,

Concerned that there is no regulatory umpire to settle electronic gaming/gambling cross border disputes,

Affirms that this resolution does not legalize gambling in nations of which it is currently outlawed,

Defines:
A cross border wager as a transaction that accepts either money or electronic funds transfer at point of sale (EFTPOS) for the purpose of gambling with a legalized cross border operator on a selection(s) for the advancement of profit

Hereby:
Creates the Wager Fairness Committee (WFC) to act as an independent umpire for all cross border wager disputes, issuing of cross border wagering licences to gambling operators and to ensure the integrity of the rules of gambling,

Mandates:
All cross border gambling operators are required to have an active licence issued via the WFC.

Ensure any and all betting rules are readily accessible to the public

Ensure that any machine/terminal/device that is used in gambling is working as the manufacturer intended and not tampered with.

Ensure that access for any gambling assistance information is readily available in accordance with GAR #123 “Reduce Problem Gambling”

The World Assembly,

Accepts that gambling generates significant revenue streams in to their nations economy, whilst also creating employment opportunities and creates tourism opportunities to those nations who have a gambling holiday resort(s),

Believing that protection is required for both the consumer and the gambling operator in the interest of fairness for all parties,

Concerned that there is no regulatory umpire to settle cross border disputes,

Affirms that this resolution does not legalize gambling in nations of which it is currently outlawed,

Defines:
A wager is a transaction that accepts either money, a token(s) issued to the value of money or electronic funds transfer at point of sale (EFTPOS) for the purpose of gambling within a legalized operator on a selection(s) for the advancement of profit

Hereby:
Creates the Wager Fairness Committee (WFC) to act as an independent umpire for all wager disputes, issuing of wagering licences to gambling operators and to ensure the integrity of the rules of gambling,

Mandates:
All gambling operators are required to have an active licence issued via the WFC.

Display the betting rules in each cash outlet in a position readily accessible to the public.

Make a copy of the betting rules available at its principle place of business on demand by any person.

Provide/display the true odds of winning on any device that works on a probability basis.

Ensure that any machine/terminal/device that is used in gambling is working as the manufacturer intended and not tampered with.

Ensure that access for any gambling assistance information is readily available.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!

So the good? The bad? The ugly?

[Grays Harbor]

Because nations are too incompetent to run their own businesses?

[Defwa]

Because nations are too incompetent to run their own businesses?

Ambassador Landfree rubs her temples.

"Do you know... where you are..."

[Tabcorp Park]

Because nations are too incompetent to run their own businesses?

If a citizen of Tabcorp Park places a wager in Greys Harbour and that operator refuses to pay the bet, my citizen has no recourse for action. Are you arguing NatSov?

[Normlpeople]

"Before dissecting it, lets start it easy. Category/Strength? I would also take a serious look at your definition of "wager", since, under the current one, literally any transaction where money is exchanged counts as one. There is also duplication of the very act you attempted to repeal earlier."

[Tabcorp Park]

Category/Strength?

Gambling, Legalize? Only tag available under gambling

I would also take a serious look at your definition of "wager", since, under the current one, literally any transaction where money is exchanged counts as one.

Fixed

There is also duplication of the very act you attempted to repeal earlier."

How so? that was pointed out by mods as well as several people it was educational only, this completely swerves that resolution, however i will concede that one line may be duplicated which can easily be fixed.

Ensure that access for any gambling assistance information is readily available.

[Bears Armed]

1. Your definition of 'wager' would still cover such matters as minor (and possibly spontaneous) bets between friends.

2. What makes this an appropriate subject for regulation by the WA, rather than just on a more local basis?

[Tabcorp Park]

1. Your definition of 'wager' would still cover such matters as minor (and possibly spontaneous) bets between friends.

2. What makes this an appropriate subject for regulation by the WA, rather than just on a more local basis?

1. That can be easily fixed.

2. If a citizen from your nation has a sizable wager in Tabcorp Park, my operator can take your natives cash and refuse to pay out should it win. If you able to gamble across borders then it stops being natsov

[Bears Armed]

2. If a citizen from your nation has a sizable wager in Tabcorp Park, my operator can take your natives cash and refuse to pay out should it win. If you able to gamble across borders then it stops being natsov

The same argument applies for any other cross-border business transaction, too, if some nations currently let their businesses get away with ripping-off foreign customers like that. I'd prefer a proposal tackling the matter from that approach, instead.

[The Dark Star Republic]

2. If a citizen from your nation has a sizable wager in Tabcorp Park, my operator can take your natives cash and refuse to pay out should it win. If you able to gamble across borders then it stops being natsov

"If a citizen from my nation travels to Tabcorp Park and is robbed at gunpoint, that doesn't violate any WA resolutions. If a citizen from my nation invests in a company in Tabcorp Park, which then refuses to make any repayment on the investment, that doesn't violate any WA resolutions.

"The question is what is intrinsic to gambling that makes it important the WA become involved in a way it doesn't for any other kind of loss."

~ Vice-Colonel Truculent Bilgewater
Ambassador to the WA

[Grays Harbor]

Because nations are too incompetent to run their own businesses?

If a citizen of Tabcorp Park places a wager in Greys Harbour and that operator refuses to pay the bet, my citizen has no recourse for action. Are you arguing NatSov?

I'm arguing common sense. Not every little thing requires some WA committee to guide, license, and coo sweet nothings in your ear.

As for your example, because a person from country A places a bet in country B, and the person in country B doesn't pay up, are you suggesting that the legal system of country B would just laugh and point at the person from country A because they are an outlander? You assume too much.

[Araraukar]

I'm arguing common sense.

In this place? How much have you had to drink? I have a feeling "not enough" is most likely. I mean, after all, when do new authors ever listen to common sense when their first bright idea is shot down?

[Grays Harbor]

I'm arguing common sense.

In this place? How much have you had to drink? I have a feeling "not enough" is most likely. I mean, after all, when do new authors ever listen to common sense when their first bright idea is shot down?

"Not Enough" is the most likely thing, true. It is truly sad that some folks believe that common sense is so rare it must be strictly rationed.

[Tabcorp Park]

The same argument applies for any other cross-border business transaction, too, if some nations currently let their businesses get away with ripping-off foreign customers like that. I'd prefer a proposal tackling the matter from that approach, instead.

We both know that a one size fits all approach will never get through or work, there are just to many variables in different industries. You can't apply the same approach to gambling as finding a fingernail in a tin of beans.

"If a citizen from my nation travels to Tabcorp Park and is robbed at gunpoint, that doesn't violate any WA resolutions.

Does it need to be? I don't get the point.

If a citizen from my nation invests in a company in Tabcorp Park, which then refuses to make any repayment on the investment, that doesn't violate any WA resolutions.

Depends on your interpretation of GAR #205 "Freedom To Contract" as to whether it violates.

"The question is what is intrinsic to gambling that makes it important the WA become involved in a way it doesn't for any other kind of loss."

~ Vice-Colonel Truculent Bilgewater
Ambassador to the WA

It depends on your understanding of gambling industry and if you believe that all business disputes should be treated in a one size fits all approach. You're also focusing on something that is not specifically mentioned within the proposal itself, but rather focusing on one very simple example I used prior.

I'm arguing common sense. Not every little thing requires some WA committee to guide, license, and coo sweet nothings in your ear.

Same argument can be applied to several proposals that have been accepted that forms a W.A committee already, not to mention pages of W.A resolution that have been passed that coo sweet nothings in your ear generally.

As for your example, because a person from country A places a bet in country B, and the person in country B doesn't pay up, are you suggesting that the legal system of country B would just laugh and point at the person from country A because they are an outlander? You assume too much.

Are you assuming it would/could never happen? You assume too much

[Normlpeople]

"Now that my duties with the Advisers council have been dealt with, I can offer a more substantial commentary."

The World Assembly,

Accepts that gambling generates significant revenue streams in to their nations economy, whilst also creating employment opportunities and creates tourism opportunities to those nations who have a gambling holiday resort(s),

Believing that protection is required for both the consumer and the gambling operator in the interest of fairness for all parties,

Concerned that there is no regulatory umpire to settle cross border disputes,

"Cross border disputes in electronic gaming should probably be your focus, as this is written, it effects all gambling outlets. Many of these requirements are generally already followed

Affirms that this resolution does not legalise gambling in nations of which it is currently outlawed,

"This could cause issue, as many gamblers use electronic means to bypass local bans. Many sources of disputes involve governments of nations where gambling is banned going after gaming operators in other nations which are allowing their citizens to bypass the bans. Something to keep in mind."

Defines:
A wager is a transaction that accepts either money, a token(s) issued to the value of money or electronic funds transfer at point of sale (EFTPOS) for the purpose of gambling on a selection(s) for the advancement of profit

"This could be cleared up. Purchasing chips is not a wager, until you use them for that purpose. This would also affect lotteries, office pools, even a private bet between friends."
Hereby:

Creates the Wager Fairness Committee (WFC) to act as an independent umpire for all wager disputes, issuing of wagering licences to gambling operators and to ensure the integrity of the rules of gambling,

Mandates:
All gambling operators are required to have an active licence issued via the WFC.

"So the one operating the aforementioned office pool has to be licensed? State lotteries are now overseen by a WA body?"

Display the betting rules in each cash outlet in a position readily accessible to the public.

"This is pointless, as the betting rules change based on game or machine. In some of our casinos, this would require a billboard."

Make a copy of the betting rules available at its principle place of business on demand by any person.

"This is in the interest of the business. After all, one cannot accuse someone of cheating or fraud when the rules are not readily availible, and one opens themselves up to lawsuits as a result of disputes when rules are not available."

Provide/display the true odds of winning on any device that works on a probability basis.

"Device? So table and card games are exempt?"

Ensure that any machine/terminal/device that is used in gambling is working as the manufacturer intended and not tampered with.

"The devices are programmed by the individual businesses. As such, this could well be referred to as 'tampering'. It is also in the best interests of the business to ensure that their machines are not tampered with, cheating and all" (OOC: During my brief stint as a Casino employee, one thing I did learn quick is a large slots win required an immediate diagnostic of the machine by a technician to ensure you didn't tamper with it before they pay it out. Tampering is also a wide-reaching term. Throw a fridge magnet on the side of a machine to cause minor chaos, just don't do it anywhere you plan on returning to....)

Ensure that access for any gambling assistance information is readily available.

"You have already addressed this duplication issue by stating your intent to remove the line."

"All in all, there is alot here that is common sense. I would focus on cross-border electronic gaming, since that seems to be your goal, and not so much on laws that affect local establishments."

[Tabcorp Park]

"Now that my duties with the Advisers council have been dealt with, I can offer a more substantial commentary."

"Cross border disputes in electronic gaming should probably be your focus, as this is written, it effects all gambling outlets. Many of these requirements are generally already followed"

I've made some amendments to reflect your suggestion. Removed any reference to premises gambling.

"This could cause issue, as many gamblers use electronic means to bypass local bans. Many sources of disputes involve governments of nations where gambling is banned going after gaming operators in other nations which are allowing their citizens to bypass the bans. Something to keep in mind."

If I add in an I.P blocker so to speak it could be regarded as NatSov so I've purposely avoided it

"This could be cleared up. Purchasing chips is not a wager, until you use them for that purpose. This would also affect lotteries, office pools, even a private bet between friends."

This has been tided to reflect cross border gambling.

"So the one operating the aforementioned office pool has to be licensed? State lotteries are now overseen by a WA body?"

My good friend GAR # 123 defined lotteries as a whole within gambling, however tided to restrict cross border operators.

"This is pointless, as the betting rules change based on game or machine. In some of our casinos, this would require a billboard."

I'd argue it would not. If your in a casino and go to play Hold'em, you'd only want the rules for the game your playing.

"This is in the interest of the business. After all, one cannot accuse someone of cheating or fraud when the rules are not readily available, and one opens themselves up to lawsuits as a result of disputes when rules are not available."

Removed to reflect cross border gambling

Provide/display the true odds of winning on any device that works on a probability basis.

"Device? So table and card games are exempt?"

Any game that uses a mechanism to determine the outcome would generally be regarded as a device where I reside.

"The devices are programmed by the individual businesses. As such, this could well be referred to as 'tampering'. It is also in the best interests of the business to ensure that their machines are not tampered with, cheating and all" (OOC: During my brief stint as a Casino employee, one thing I did learn quick is a large slots win required an immediate diagnostic of the machine by a technician to ensure you didn't tamper with it before they pay it out. Tampering is also a wide-reaching term. Throw a fridge magnet on the side of a machine to cause minor chaos, just don't do it anywhere you plan on returning to....)

I guess it comes down to your national regulations with this one. Its removed from the proposal tho

(OOC: Ah yes, the days I used to take the trusty magnet to the pub, I remember those. Using metal wheels on a FOBT was a stupid idea from the start.)

""You have already addressed this duplication issue by stating your intent to remove the line."

Struck it out

"All in all, there is alot here that is common sense. I would focus on cross-border electronic gaming, since that seems to be your goal, and not so much on laws that affect local establishments."[/quote]

I've changed it now to reflect cross border electronic gaming which hopefully gets a little more support.

[Chester Pearson]

Category/Strength?

Gambling, Legalize? Only tag available under gambling

How exactly does this loosen restrictions on gambling? Also.... Now we have to clear all wagers through a committee of gnomes? Are they going to set the odds as well?

[Tabcorp Park]

How exactly does this loosen restrictions on gambling?

What other tag could this be applied to?

Also.... Now we have to clear all wagers through a committee of gnomes? Are they going to set the odds as well?

Where does it state that?

[Chester Pearson]

How exactly does this loosen restrictions on gambling?

What other tag could this be applied to?

I don't know, as I am not writing the resolution. It is common place to pick a category, and write a resolution around it, not write a resolution, and then try to stick it into a category....

Also.... Now we have to clear all wagers through a committee of gnomes? Are they going to set the odds as well?

Where does it state that?

Hereby:
Creates the Wager Fairness Committee (WFC) to act as an independent umpire for all cross border wager disputes, issuing of cross border wagering licences to gambling operators and to ensure the integrity of the rules of gambling,

Right there.....

[Tabcorp Park]

I don't know, as I am not writing the resolution. It is common place to pick a category, and write a resolution around it, not write a resolution, and then try to stick it into a category....

Barring any clear definitions of what exactly is allowed in a particular category or assistance, I'll leave it gambling.


Creates the Wager Fairness Committee (WFC) to act as an independent umpire for all cross border wager disputes, issuing of cross border wagering licences to gambling operators and to ensure the integrity of the rules of gambling,[/quote]

Right there.....

Sorry, you must work off a different version of an English dictionary than me. Your highlight proves no argument other than your fine ability to highlight passages contained within a proposal.

[Chester Pearson]

I don't know, as I am not writing the resolution. It is common place to pick a category, and write a resolution around it, not write a resolution, and then try to stick it into a category....

Barring any clear definitions of what exactly is allowed in a particular category or assistance, I'll leave it gambling.

A resolution to legalize or outlaw gambling

Once again.... How does this do either?

But hey, what the hell do I know after all? You know what? Go ahead with this as is. When it gets yanked for being illegal, and you get booted out, or it goes down in flames on the floor, as us Natsov'ers will crush this into paste, maybe you will learn a thing or two....

[Tabcorp Park]

Once again.... How does this do either?

But hey, what the hell do I know after all? You know what? Go ahead with this as is. When it gets yanked for being illegal, and you get booted out, or it goes down in flames on the floor, as us Natsov'ers will crush this into paste, maybe you will learn a thing or two....

How kind of you to leave such wonderful helpful feedback Ambassador. I will be sure to add you helpful suggestions to the draft, to hopefully ensure it's passage....

[Chester Pearson]

Once again.... How does this do either?

But hey, what the hell do I know after all? You know what? Go ahead with this as is. When it gets yanked for being illegal, and you get booted out, or it goes down in flames on the floor, as us Natsov'ers will crush this into paste, maybe you will learn a thing or two....

How kind of you to leave such wonderful helpful feedback Ambassador. I will be sure to add you helpful suggestions to the draft, to hopefully ensure it's passage....

Are you going to answer my question, or spout rhetoric?

[Tabcorp Park]

Are you going to answer my question, or spout rhetoric?

I shall.

But hey, what the hell do I know after all?

I cannot possibly answer that question because I do not know what you know or don't know, you know?

You know what?

Is the a rhetorical question?

Go ahead with this as is. When it gets yanked for being illegal, and you get booted out, or it goes down in flames on the floor, as us Natsov'ers will crush this into paste, maybe you will learn a thing or two....

You answered your question

Are you going to answer my question, or spout rhetoric?

What question would you like answering?

[Chester Pearson]

Are you going to answer my question, or spout rhetoric?

I shall.

But hey, what the hell do I know after all?

I cannot possibly answer that question because I do not know what you know or don't know, you know?

You know what?

Is the a rhetorical question?

Go ahead with this as is. When it gets yanked for being illegal, and you get booted out, or it goes down in flames on the floor, as us Natsov'ers will crush this into paste, maybe you will learn a thing or two....

You answered your question

Are you going to answer my question, or spout rhetoric?

What question would you like answering?

You clearly are the superior debater here, so I will leave this in your capable hands....

/sarcasm