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[NEARING SUBMISSION] Plant Protection Products Act

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

The proposal should

focus on Plant Protection Products in agriculture only (as it is now), and I would support a later wider resolution on POPs in other industries
9
64%
focus on Plant protection products in agriculture only (as it is now), and I would NOT support a later wider resolution on POPs in other industries
3
21%
focus on all POPs for all industries
2
14%
 
Total votes : 14

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Aligned Planets
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[NEARING SUBMISSION] Plant Protection Products Act

Postby Aligned Planets » Mon May 12, 2014 2:28 pm

EDIT: Poll created 27th May - should scope be widened to include all Persistent Organic Pollutants (POPs) (All Businesses), or should focus be retained on Plant Protection Products (Agriculture)?

Something for y'all to chew your brains out on.

DRAFT 6
Plant Protection Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

AWARE that there are no regulatory requirements governing the manufacture of plant protection products (PPPs) and distribution across international boundaries, nor governing the effectiveness and toxicity of such products;

DEFINING PPPs as substances that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel plant pests,
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
ALSO DEFINING plant pests as non-sentient organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;

WISHING to protect sustainable agriculture and enhance global food security through the effective use of PPPs, and to protect the environment, ecosystems and biodiversity from unnecessary levels of toxicity;

SEEKING to facilitate economic and trade development amongst Member States through international standards that harmonize the use of PPPs;

HEREBY:

REQUIRES that PPPs be:
  • specific – only effective against the plant pests at which they are aimed,
  • short-lived – after having the desired effect, they should break down easily into simple harmless chemical components, without significant irreversible impacts on the environment;
FURTHER REQUIRES companies manufacturing PPPs for international distribution to publish data relating to toxicity, handling and safety information, possible side effects, dangerous levels of exposure, and other pertinent information;

ESTABLISHES the International Agricultural Board (IAB) to work with Member States to:
  • collect data on chemical toxicity of internationally distributed PPPs and publish trend information relating to usage, environmental impacts, and health factors,
  • develop phytosanitary certifications for internationally distributed PPPs,
  • develop criteria for approval of new internationally distributed PPPs,
  • conduct a review programme of existing internationally distributed PPPs;
AUTHORISES the IAB to liaise with relevant international agencies to monitor plant pest distribution and movement across international borders, to ensure appropriate use of PPPs, and to cleanse agricultural produce of PPPs prior to entry to market;

REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific PPPs in their territory.

DRAFT 5
Pest Control Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

AWARE that there are no regulatory requirements governing the manufacture of plant protection products and distribution across international boundaries, nor governing the effectiveness and toxicity of such products;

DEFINING plant protection products as substances that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel plant pests,
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
ALSO DEFINING plant pests as non-sentient organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;

WISHING to protect sustainable agriculture and enhance global food security through the effective use of plant protection products, and to protect the environment, ecosystems and biodiversity from unnecessary levels of toxicity;

SEEKING to facilitate economic and trade development amongst Member States through international standards that harmonize the use of plant protection products;

HEREBY:

REQUIRES that plant protection products be:
  • specific – only effective against the plant pests at which they are aimed,
  • short-lived – after having the desired effect, they should break down easily into simple harmless chemical components, without significant irreversible impacts on the environment;
FURTHER REQUIRES companies manufacturing plant protection products for international distribution to publish data relating to toxicity, handling and safety information, possible side effects, dangerous levels of exposure, and other pertinent information;

ESTABLISHES the International Agricultural Board (IAB) to work with Member States to:
  • develop phytosanitary certifications for internationally distributed plant protection products,
  • develop criteria for approval of new internationally distributed plant protection products,
  • conduct a review programme of existing internationally distributed plant protection products;
AUTHORISES the IAB to liaise with relevant international agencies to monitor plant pest distribution and movement across international borders, to ensure appropriate use of plant protection products, and to cleanse agricultural produce of plant protection products prior to entry to market;

REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

DRAFT 4
Plant Protection Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

AWARE that there are no regulatory requirements governing the manufacture of plant protection products and distribution across international boundaries, nor governing the effectiveness and toxicity of such products;

DEFINING plant protection products as substances that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel plant pests,
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
ALSO DEFINING plant pests as non-sentient organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;

WISHING to protect sustainable agriculture and enhance global food security through the effective use of plant protection products, and to protect the environment, ecosystems and biodiversity from unnecessary levels of toxicity;

SEEKING to facilitate economic and trade development amongst Member States through international standards that harmonize the use of plant protection products;

HEREBY:

REQUIRES that plant protection products be:
  • specific – only effective against the plant pests at which they are aimed,
  • short-lived – after having the desired effect, they should break down easily into simple, harmless chemical components, without harmful impact on the environment;
FURTHER REQUIRES companies manufacturing plant protection products for international distribution to publish data relating to toxicity, handling and safety information, possible side effects, dangerous levels of exposure, and other pertinent information;

ESTABLISHES the International Agricultural Board to work with Member States to:
  • develop phytosanitary certifications for internationally distributed plant protection products,
  • develop criteria for approval of new internationally distributed plant protection products,
  • conduct a review programme of existing internationally distributed plant protection products,
  • liaise with the International Food Welfare Organization to ensure plant protection products are used appropriately for plant pest control,
  • liaise with the World Assembly Science Program to monitor distribution and movement of plant pests across international borders,
  • liaise with the World Assembly Food and Drug Regulatory Agency to ensure all agricultural produce has been appropriately cleansed of plant protection products prior to entry to market;
REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

DRAFT 3
Plant Protection Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

SEEKING to secure coordinated international action to prevent and control the introduction and transnational spread of plant pests through the appropriate use of plant protection products;

DEFINING plant protection products as substances that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel plant pests to protect plants and crops before and after harvest,
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
ALSO DEFINING plant pests as non-sentient organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;

WISHING to protect sustainable agriculture and enhance global food security through the prevention of plant pest spread, and to protect the environment, ecosystems and biodiversity from plant pests;

DESIROUS of facilitating economic and trade development amongst Member States through international standards that harmonize the use of plant protection products;

HEREBY:

REQUIRES Member States to take such precautions as necessary to:
  • create effective mechanisms to minimise plant pest introduction,
  • create monitoring systems for detecting new plant pest infestations,
  • move rapidly to eradicate newly detected invaders,
  • prevent the spread of plant pests across international borders;
FURTHER REQUIRES companies manufacturing plant protection products to publish data relating to harmful chemicals contained within, handling and safety information, possible side effects, dangerous levels of exposure, and other pertinent information;

DECLARES that plant protection products must be removed from plants or crops designated as foodstuffs prior to entry to market;

ESTABLISHES the International Agricultural Board to work with Member States to:
  • develop phytosanitary certifications for plant protection products for import and export,
  • develop criteria for approval of new plant protection products and to assess the risks arising from their use,
  • conduct a review programme of existing plant protection products,
  • liaise with the International Food Welfare Organization to ensure plant protection products are used appropriately for plant pest control,
  • liaise with the World Assembly Food and Drug Regulatory Agency to ensure all agricultural produce has been appropriately cleansed of plant protection products prior to entry to market;
REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

DRAFT 2
Plant Protection Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

AIMING to secure coordinated, effective international action to prevent and control the introduction and spread of pests of plants through the appropriate use of plant protection products;

DEFINING plant protection products as substances that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel pests to protect plants and crops before and after harvest;
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
ALSO DEFINING pests as organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;

WISHING to protect sustainable agriculture and enhance global food security through the prevention of pest spread, and to protect the environment, ecosystems and biodiversity from pests;

SEEKING to prevent the entry and spread of pests within Member States and across international boundaries;

DESIROUS of facilitating economic and trade development through international standards that harmonize the use of plant protection products;

HEREBY:

ESTABLISHES the International Agricultural Board to work with Member States to:
  • develop phytosanitary certifications for plant protection products for import and export;
  • develop criteria for approval of new plant protection products and to assess the risks arising from their use;
  • conduct a review programme of existing plant protection products;
  • liaise with the International Food Welfare Organization to ensure plant protection products are used appropriately for pest control;
  • liaise with the World Assembly Food and Drug Regulatory Agency to ensure all agricultural produce has been appropriately cleansed of plant protection products prior to entry to market;
REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

DRAFT 1
Plant Protection Products Act
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

CATEGORY: Environmental
INDUSTRY AFFECTED: Agriculture
PROPOSED BY: Aligned Planets

DESCRIPTION:

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY,

DEFINING plant protection products as pesticides to protect plants/crops;

FURTHER DEFINING pesticides as chemical compounds that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel pests to protect crops before and after harvest;
  • influence the life processes of plants other than as a nutrient (i.e. plant growth regulators, rooting hormones);
  • destroy weeds or prevent their growth;
  • preserve plant products (i.e. extending the life of cut flowers);
ALSO DEFINING:
  • active substances as the chemicals in plant protection products that kill, control, or repel pests;
  • safeners as chemicals used in conjunction with active substances to reduce their effect on crop plants;
  • synergists as chemicals that, while not possessing inherent pesticidal attributes, nonetheless promote or enhance the effectiveness of active substances when combined;
CONCERNED due to the risks to operators, workers, consumers, the environment and non-target plants and animals through the use of non-suitable plant protection products;

AWARE that there is an international trade of active substances, safeners and synergists between Member States;

WISHING to ensure a high level of protection of health and the environment as well as the free movement of active substances, safeners, and synergists, on their own, and of formulated plant protection products, while enhancing competitiveness and innovation;

HEREBY:

REQUIRES all active substances, safeners and synergists be approved at a WA level, following assessment against a set of agreed criteria;

MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health, have no unacceptable effects on the environment, and are effective against pests may be used within Member States;

ESTABLISHES the Pesticide Regulation Committee to:
  • agree criteria for approval of active substances, safeners and synergists and assess the risks arising from the use of plant protection products which contain them;
  • conduct a review programme of existing active substances, safeners and synergists;
  • approve active substances, safeners and synergists;
REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.
Last edited by Aligned Planets on Tue May 27, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Aligned Planets
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Postby Aligned Planets » Mon May 12, 2014 2:29 pm

Holding posts for questions, thoughts, etc.
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Wrapper
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Postby Wrapper » Mon May 12, 2014 2:37 pm

Your definition of pesticide is WAAAAAAY off. A pesticide kills pests. It is not a nutrient, nor does it kill weeds or preserve plants.

Also:
MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health

As written, this would outlaw most pesticides. They are poisons, after all.

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Postby The Dark Star Republic » Mon May 12, 2014 2:50 pm

OOC: What does "adverse effect" mean? If I drink a pint of weedkiller, I'm pretty sure it's not going to be great for my health.

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Postby Aligned Planets » Mon May 12, 2014 2:57 pm

Wrapper wrote:Your definition of pesticide is WAAAAAAY off. A pesticide kills pests. It is not a nutrient, nor does it kill weeds or preserve plants.

Yep, you're right - this could be tightened. I'd suggest reforming DEFINING, FURTHER DEFINING, and ALSO DEFINING into the below:

DEFINING plant protection products as formulated products consisting of, or containing, active substances, safeners or synergists that are used to:
  • kill, control, or repel pests to protect plants and crops before and after harvest;
  • influence the life processes of plants other than as a nutrient (i.e. plant growth regulators, rooting hormones);
  • destroy weeds or prevent the growth of undesired plants;
  • preserve plant products (i.e. extending the life of cut flowers);

ALSO DEFINING:
  • active substances as the chemicals in plant protection products that kill, control, or repel pests;
  • safeners as chemicals used in conjunction with active substances to reduce their effect on crop plants;
  • synergists as chemicals that, while not possessing inherent pesticidal attributes, nonetheless promote or enhance the effectiveness of active substances when combined;


Wrapper wrote:Also:
MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health

As written, this would outlaw most pesticides. They are poisons, after all.

Not sure on this - happy to take thoughts. The active substances may be poisons, but the PRC would have responsibility for assessing the risks arising from use of specific active substances.. Member States are then free to decide which products they wish to use directly, as well as trading in active substances, safeners and synergists with non-Member States.
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Postby Aligned Planets » Mon May 12, 2014 2:59 pm

The Dark Star Republic wrote:OOC: What does "adverse effect" mean? If I drink a pint of weedkiller, I'm pretty sure it's not going to be great for my health.


Agreed TDSR, I think this needs tightening really.

Essentially, that the plant protection products are "safe" for commercial use. I guess if one was to drink a pint of petrol or bleach, it wouldn't be great for health either. Recommendations for rephrasing welcomed :)
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Postby Defwa » Mon May 12, 2014 3:37 pm

Don't we already have a WA agricultural commission? (can't check on my phone, but I like reusing committees)

EDIT: Turns out we don't! Lets make one now
Last edited by Defwa on Mon May 12, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cardoness » Mon May 12, 2014 6:26 pm

Defwa wrote:Don't we already have a WA agricultural commission? (can't check on my phone, but I like reusing committees)

There is a list of committees floating around here somewhere, I'll see if I can track it down.
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Postby Defwa » Mon May 12, 2014 6:29 pm

Cardoness wrote:
Defwa wrote:Don't we already have a WA agricultural commission? (can't check on my phone, but I like reusing committees)

There is a list of committees floating around here somewhere, I'll see if I can track it down.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=292517&hilit=bureaucracy

I double and triple checked. Somehow we don't have one, really. So we should probably get on that instead of adding to this list of groups that are kind of agricultural
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Postby Goddess Relief Office » Mon May 12, 2014 7:56 pm

Aligned Planets wrote:
MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health, have no unacceptable effects on the environment, and are effective against pests may be used within Member States;


*GRO appears in a blinding light*

Ambassador, wouldn't it be very difficult to find a plant protection product (i.e. insecticide) that kills pests but at the same time, have "no adverse effect on people's health"?

It's common knowledge that if you drink a bottle of pesticide/insecticide you would die. So to me, it is more a case of personal responsibility rather than asking Industry to come up with a miracle product that won't harm humans but at the same time effective against pests. I don't see how they can do it, and I'm not aware of anything in the market (in RL) that fits the bill. Sure there are products that degrade over time such that the harmful products wears off after a month or two after application. But still, most agricultural products need to be washed before they enter the supermarket. E.g. we know apples are washed and waxed.

If this is what you meant (i.e. pesticides that degrade with time), the clause need to be clearer. At it stands it reads like we are looking for a miracle product that is safe for humans but not pests in the same span of time. The "time difference" may be technical point but it is a crucial point to make so that we are not asking the impossible from Industry.

As an aside I wonder if there's a requirement in existing legislation for the food processing industry to properly clean agricultural produce before they enter the market? If that hasn't been covered yet, perhaps it's something you would consider including?


*GRO rests*

:)
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Postby Bears Armed » Tue May 13, 2014 10:14 am

Goddess Relief Office wrote:Ambassador, wouldn't it be very difficult to find a plant protection product (i.e. insecticide) that kills pests but at the same time, have "no adverse effect on people's health"?

Especially as we've had at least one nation around here (OOC: No, not one of mine...) whose people are insects...
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Postby Aligned Planets » Tue May 13, 2014 10:19 am

Bears Armed wrote:Especially as we've had at least one nation around here (OOC: No, not one of mine...) whose people are insects...

Indeed. I want to make clear that the proposal REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

Basically, I'm looking to establish a “dual” system on plant protection products:
  • The WA (through a form of committee) approves the active substances contained in the products;
  • Member States authorise the use of specific products in their territory and ensure compliance with WA rules.

Does that make sense?

There's been a fair few good ideas so far on this - I need to update the draft and will probably look to do that this evening.
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Postby The Dark Star Republic » Wed May 14, 2014 12:18 pm

MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health, have no unacceptable effects on the environment, and are effective against pests may be used within Member States;

"I'm going to make a national sovereignty argument here, for a change. The emphasis of this should be on transnational impact. If people want to poison their own countries with plant protection products, then let them; it's not the WA's job to intervene there. What the WA should be doing is making sure that plant protection products do not affect other countries; that is already basically covered by Article 3, section IV of the Transboundary Water Use Act, which clearly applies to plant protection products:
[Member nations shall] ... Adopt measures to eliminate pollution from agriculture or industrial activities entering transboundary rivers and groundwater basins;

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Postby Aligned Planets » Wed May 14, 2014 12:27 pm

The Dark Star Republic wrote:"I'm going to make a national sovereignty argument here, for a change. The emphasis of this should be on transnational impact. If people want to poison their own countries with plant protection products, then let them; it's not the WA's job to intervene there.

This is an interesting point and one that, as a NatSov'ist myself, I am happy to take on board. Through the proposed legislation, the WA is going to have responsibility for agreeing criteria for approval of active substances, safeners and synergists and assess[ing] the risks arising from the use of plant protection products which contain them.

Point three of ESTABLISHES could be extended to approve active substances, safeners and synergists that have no unacceptable effects on the environment, and are effective against pests.

An additional point could then be added to ESTABLISHES to proscribe active substances, safeners and synergists that do not meet agreed criteria for usage, and to levy appropriate fines against Member States found to be using proscribed substances. This would not, however, impact upon the ability of Member States to trade in the proscribed substances.
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Postby Potted Plants United » Wed May 14, 2014 1:21 pm

A large potted plant in a big plantpot with wheels suddenly comes to life, revealing a large leaf curled up to form a cone, from which a somewhat hissing voice can be heard:

"For us, many herbicides would count as chemical weapons, and if such are used against our selves, we will consider this to be an act of voluntarily relinguishing your status as a sentient being.*

That said, we do acknowledge that most sentient species of fauna will need to resort to the use of such to protect their food crops, as they are unable or unwilling to use genetic modification instead.

Now, there are a few things that baffle us in this proposal, so we shall address them here."


WISHING to ensure a high level of protection of health and the environment as well as the free movement of active substances, safeners, and synergists, on their own, and of formulated plant protection products, while enhancing competitiveness and innovation;

"Now, this sounds as though the chemicals themselves were able to move on their own, and this reads as though one was capable of producing mulch from one's mouth. We do understand that this is still in the preamble and as such doesn't mean much, but it makes no sense to have weaselwords in a proper proposal."

REQUIRES all active substances, safeners and synergists be approved at a WA level, following assessment against a set of agreed criteria;

"Would this not act against your wishes to "enhance competitiveness and innovation", as it would require companies to disclose their ingredients used on their products? And as this would operate on the WA level, we presume it would be a matter of public record? Additionally, the fact that a gnome committee can set the criteria for acceptable and unacceptable begs the question of whether such measurements should only be applied on internationally sold substances."

MANDATES that only plant protection products that do not have an adverse effect on people's health, have no unacceptable effects on the environment, and are effective against pests may be used within Member States

"In many cases, the substances that are effective, by their very nature will have effects on the environment - one could consider the pests themselves as part of the environment, and additionally substances such as pesticides also often kill numerous beneficial creatures (OOC: for example bees in real life) though it hardly is their intended use. Again, perhaps these provisions should only affect substances that either are sold internationally or which have a danger of spreading over international borders."

ESTABLISHES the Pesticide Regulation Committee to:
* agree criteria for approval of active substances, safeners and synergists and assess the risks arising from the use of plant protection products which contain them;


OOC: I think that's meant to read "agree on criteria" or something similar.

REAFFIRMS the right of Member States to authorise the use of specific plant protection products in their territory.

"This is not what you say above, where you say that only products that meet the set criteria can be used in the Member States.

And now we come to wonder why you have set the clause requiring the substances to be allowed by the committee before the creation of the committee - if it is an attempt to mask the fact that it is entirely dependent on the committee, it is poor conduct on your part.

You do have your one independent clause, the "MANDATES" one - though one has to wonder why the committee is needed at all, since you mandate the criteria separately from it. Can the committee reach a decision that contradicts this clause? We suggest you re-think this through."


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Aligned Planets
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Draft 2 posted

Postby Aligned Planets » Wed May 14, 2014 3:59 pm

Potted Plants United, thank-you for the excellent critique of the proposal. I have made some substantial changes to the first draft. I hope you will forgive me for not addressing each of the points you raised as I believe they have all been corrected in the second draft in its entirety; you gave me much food for thought though and I believe the new draft is much stronger because of your comments. In lieu of a more detailed response from me on each point, as that would be now somewhat redundant, I await your thoughts on the new content of the draft proposal. Might I offer you a funnel of water, or other nutrient of choice, to keep your roots fresh and your foliage green?

Honourable Inky Fungschlammer, of The Dark Star Republic, I hope that I too have addressed your concerns and made a stronger international argument in the proposal. I would, of course, be interested in your thoughts on how to strengthen this even further.

Bears Armed and the ever-lovely Goddess Relief Office, your points on the MANDATE were well-taken and that has been removed from the draft in its entirety. The point about agricultural produce being washed was excellently made and is an area of common ground with the extant World Assembly Food and Drug Regulatory Agency.

Wrapper, the same applies to your point on the MANDATE - thank you for your comments - and I additionally hope that the new definitions are more appropriate and to your liking.

Defwa and Cardoness, I've changed the committee to the International Agricultural Board (OOC: as this will give a lot more scope for any future committees needed in this category) and enlarged its remit. Thank-you for your thoughts on this.

I look forward to the next round of feedback.
Last edited by Aligned Planets on Wed May 14, 2014 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cardoness
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Postby Cardoness » Thu May 15, 2014 3:49 am

It looks good, but I have two concerns.

My first is with your "also defining" clause:
ALSO DEFINING pests as organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;
This definition is too broad. As worded it would include even those who are cultivating the plants for harvest, as the act of harvest damages the plant.

My second concern is that you are lacking an operative clause outside of the creation of the committee. You need something independent of the committee compelling all member states to action. My personal recommendation is requiring companies to publish"Material Safety Data" which list what potentially harmful chemicals are in it, what the side affects are, and what to do if exposed, and to make this data available to whoever uses the product.
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Aligned Planets
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Postby Aligned Planets » Thu May 15, 2014 4:13 am

Cardoness wrote:with your "also defining" clause:
ALSO DEFINING pests as organisms that may directly or indirectly cause disease, spoilage, or damage to plants, plant parts or processed plant materials;
This definition is too broad. As worded it would include even those who are cultivating the plants for harvest, as the act of harvest damages the plant.
Yes, this could certainly be tightened; as you say, agricultural workers are "organisms" by the broadest definition and could be construed as pests under this definition. I'll seek a more tightened wording in the next draft, and would welcome suggestions or thoughts in the meanwhile on how to word this.

Cardoness wrote:you are lacking an operative clause outside of the creation of the committee. You need something independent of the committee compelling all member states to action.
I have, inadvertently, fallen foul of one of my own pet hates. Resolutions that do nothing more than establish committees are anathema to me, so it is ironic that my own proposal seeks to do this. I will rectify appropriately in the second draft, incorporating some elements associated with the work of the committee and seeking to establish firmly requirements for member states under the resolution. I like your ideas, I'm sure there's a way to fulfil them properly.

Thanks for the input!
What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the United Federation has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?
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The Dourian Embassy
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Postby The Dourian Embassy » Thu May 15, 2014 4:15 am

As much as I like the idea of a resolution that doesn't do anything but block future resolutions on a subject... I feel I would be remiss not to point out that this doesn't do anything. Most of the work is being done by the IAB. I think you need some active clauses that aren't about the committee or about reaffirming my right to make this legal or illegal in my nation.
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Postby Aligned Planets » Thu May 15, 2014 4:20 am

The Dourian Embassy wrote:As much as I like the idea of a resolution that doesn't do anything but block future resolutions on a subject... I feel I would be remiss not to point out that this doesn't do anything. Most of the work is being done by the IAB. I think you need some active clauses that aren't about the committee or about reaffirming my right to make this legal or illegal in my nation.

Absolutely agree TDE - I'd got so excited about beefing up the work of the IAB and internationalising the issue that I'd removed any reference to requirements of member states.

As mentioned above to Cardoness, I'll sort this out in the next draft - I have a few ideas myself, as well as those of Cardoness, but happy to discuss / entertain suggestions from colleagues.
What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the United Federation has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?
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The Dourian Embassy
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Postby The Dourian Embassy » Thu May 15, 2014 4:44 am

Aligned Planets wrote:
The Dourian Embassy wrote:As much as I like the idea of a resolution that doesn't do anything but block future resolutions on a subject... I feel I would be remiss not to point out that this doesn't do anything. Most of the work is being done by the IAB. I think you need some active clauses that aren't about the committee or about reaffirming my right to make this legal or illegal in my nation.

Absolutely agree TDE - I'd got so excited about beefing up the work of the IAB and internationalising the issue that I'd removed any reference to requirements of member states.

As mentioned above to Cardoness, I'll sort this out in the next draft - I have a few ideas myself, as well as those of Cardoness, but happy to discuss / entertain suggestions from colleagues.


OOC: Yeah as I was writing it I went to post and saw you'd beat me to the punch by a couple of minutes but I hit submit anyway. ;) I'll see what the next draft brings.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Thu May 15, 2014 7:27 am

Aligned Planets wrote:
Cardoness wrote:This definition is too broad. As worded it would include even those who are cultivating the plants for harvest, as the act of harvest damages the plant.
Yes, this could certainly be tightened; as you say, agricultural workers are "organisms" by the broadest definition and could be construed as pests under this definition. I'll seek a more tightened wording in the next draft, and would welcome suggestions or thoughts in the meanwhile on how to word this.

You might make it "non-sentient organisms" - that would exclude the people doing the harvesting, and would avoid you being able to spray pesticides on the pesky neighbour's kids who are trying to steal your apples.
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Defwa
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Postby Defwa » Thu May 15, 2014 7:28 am

I know this might not be considered an international issue based on the rights of nations to poison their own people but I'd like to see something that says in minimal concentrations useful to duties of pest controls, these chemicals should not surpass the toxicity tolerance the average person in that nation and that the poison must be removed at some point before going to the consumer.
Avoids arbitrary numbers but I think it protects others from people who may misuse pesticides or even those who accidentally stumble into a poisoned area.

Araraukar's suggestion would remove my concerns about the pest definition.
Last edited by Defwa on Thu May 15, 2014 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
__________Federated City States of ____________________Defwa__________
Federation Head High Wizard of Dal Angela Landfree
Ambassadorial Delegate Maestre Wizard Mikyal la Vert

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Defwa offers assistance with humanitarian aid, civilian evacuation, arbitration, negotiation, and human rights violation monitoring.

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu May 15, 2014 7:35 am

Defwa wrote:but I'd like to see something that says in minimal concentrations useful to duties of pest controls, these chemicals should not surpass the toxicity tolerance the average person in that nation

Again, this would render most pesticides unusable, as they tend to be toxic at high concentrations. Perhaps simply "mandate that they be used in a manner that does not intentionally cause harm to sentient beings (that allows migrant workers from another nation to come help with harvesting, for example), environment, and non-pest organisms" or something similar.

and that the poison must be removed at some point before going to the consumer.

This I agree with. Or perhaps even "before going to the consumer or further processing" or such.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
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Defwa
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Postby Defwa » Thu May 15, 2014 7:43 am

Araraukar wrote:
Defwa wrote:but I'd like to see something that says in minimal concentrations useful to duties of pest controls, these chemicals should not surpass the toxicity tolerance the average person in that nation

Again, this would render most pesticides unusable, as they tend to be toxic at high concentrations. Perhaps simply "mandate that they be used in a manner that does not intentionally cause harm to sentient beings (that allows migrant workers from another nation to come help with harvesting, for example), environment, and non-pest organisms" or something similar.

and that the poison must be removed at some point before going to the consumer.

This I agree with. Or perhaps even "before going to the consumer or further processing" or such.

As long as when they are applied, they are not in dangerous concentrations. I'd prefer that eating an apple that was recently sprayed does not cause immediate death. Vomiting maybe, but nothing worse than losing consciousness.

OOC: I never feel comfortable suggesting the exact language- makes me feel like I'm being rude or doing too much.
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Ambassadorial Delegate Maestre Wizard Mikyal la Vert

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