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by Mundiferrum » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:10 pm
Coroscent wrote:Mundiferrum wrote:Um, what? Isn't voting on this resolution, and the resolution being repealed, a matter of nationstate democracy and international interference?
Again, what? "Void" and "in effect" are complete antonyms....
Mundiferrum has tentatively voted FOR, though we are considering deferring our support. We shall make a more official statement sometime later.
Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, I find it amusing that you're criticising my point, yet you aren't even sure whether it not to vote for or against this resolution. Make your mind up first, then and only then come talk to me.
by Louisistan » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:19 pm
Anozia wrote:A repeal not ending by "Hereby repeals [resolution identification]"?
HERESY!
Voting against.
That's a tradition I'm attached to.
by The Dark Star Republic » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:02 am
Louisistan wrote:That has always been the most weak of arguments (same goes for people in the silly proposal thread claiming that a repeal doesn't have an operative clause). The very first line in any repeal is
"WA General Assembly Resolution #XX: Foobar (Category: Foo; Strength: Bar) shall be struck out and rendered null and void."
That is operative enough.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:40 am
Defwa wrote:Coroscent wrote:
Mr Ambassador for Defwa, I agree with you! My reasons are contradictory! But they are contradictory to the resolution to repeal the National Economic Freedoms bill. I address the WA in general here, not just you Mr Ambassador for Defwa: in what way is it the duty and responsibility of the WA to monitor and control economic activity in any one of its member states? Whatever legitimate activity takes place within a member state's borders is the sole responsibility of the relevant government to control, not the international community. It's a bit like me sticking my nose into someone else's country and telling them they're not allowed to swap trading cards because they don't pay tax on them to the WA's benefit! The economic activity inside a sovereign state, WA member or not, is the responsibility of national, nationstate democracy and not of the delegates of the WA; not me, not you. And that, Mr Ambassador for Defwa, is your "contradictory" statement. But of course, you can't argue much really as the majority of voters agree with me and have voted AGAINST this resolution, and have therefore voted for free market economies as opposed to state regulated international communism.
Ambassador and Maestre Wizard Angela Landfree, whose information is clearly identifiable at the bottom of any correspondence from the Defwean Delegation in the form of a convenient fact book hyper link, allows her head to fall to the side out of exhaustion.
"That's not exactly what contradictory means. Your statements contradict each other. You're disputing yourself. And its quite sad that you don't realize that. Perhaps the assembly room translation matrix is being spotty if English is not your primary language or perhaps you have elected to attend drunk today but have not yet mastered drinking on the job."
"To your last statement, I would like to remind you where you are. The world assembly is a group of nations that agree to operate in full compliance with whatever the assembly deems I necessary. Its motto is to improve the world one resolution at a time and thus this assembly with legislate on every topic it can. Every nation in the assembly, by virtue of membership, agrees to comply in full with anything the assembly says and thus in those nations the subjects the assembly has authority on is limited only by what the assembly wants. And i want to reiterate- via being a member, you submit yourself to the authority of this organization. you agree to obey anything the majority says."
"Now were you to read the repeal, you would note that you share an agenda with the author. The author wants the World Assembly to have less control economically, however as written NEF has failed to do its intended duty. It cannot be reinforced because of legal precedent and thus in order for any blanket restriction on WA legislation, NEF must be replaced."
Mundiferrum wrote:Coroscent wrote:
Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, I find it amusing that you're criticising my point, yet you aren't even sure whether it not to vote for or against this resolution. Make your mind up first, then and only then come talk to me.
I'm criticizing your point because your point is, quite frankly, stupid. I may not have made up my point yet, but that sure as hell does not blind my reasoning from your obvious self-contradictions. What you're doing is akin to considering the scientific community as "stupid" if they're yet to make a conclusion on something.
That said, before you is our conclusion. We do want to eliminate the possible legal pitfalls and actual legislative redundancies maintained by NEF, but since this assembly doesn't seem to care about maintaining the general spirit of the resolution anymore, we do not see any immediate necessity in eliminating it. That said, pitfalls are pitfalls, and redundant things are, er, redundant things, and though we aren't specifically compelled to repeal NEF, simply feeling that way shouldn't push us to voting, as deemed by our judgement so far, unreasonably. Hence, the Benevolent Dominion of Mundiferrum shall be voting FOR, and duly so. We do hope, however, that if this repeal ever passes, someone would propose another, less ridiculous, and more inclusive blocker for ridiculous economic proposals, one that would not be ignored, and one that would be duly considered by the mods the next time proposals are submitted here.
Ooh, neat, the universal translator thingy didn't spaz out. Me and King Ozy took about a long-hour preparing that little speech. A long hour! Do you know how many mealtimes that is? One! ONE! Oh, but I do hope we didn't end up making daft conclusions, like, well, the ambassador I addressed before my-er, our little speech.
by Normlpeople » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:44 am
by Mundiferrum » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:30 am
Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, firstly I'd like to congratulate you for voting. But unfortunately you made the wrong decision. You say that the majority of people on this council don't care for maintaining the "spirit of this resolution" by which I presume you mean resolution #68, the National Economic Freedoms resolution.
But last time I looked which was mere seconds ago, most of the voters in this council have voted to kick this resolution into touch and keep the NEF. So are you honestly trying to tell me that this council has grown tired of economic freedom? Are you seriously telling me that people here want to appoint their own dictators? Are you seriously telling me that these member nations want to hire their own executioners for their own economies? It's absolute chutzpah! This is the WA, not the international Soviet council! I say passionately, keep your noses out of our economies and mind your own beeswax! I hope you enjoyed that meal you mentioned Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, because like your statement it is cold and stale.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:47 am
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:56 am
Mundiferrum wrote:Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, firstly I'd like to congratulate you for voting. But unfortunately you made the wrong decision. You say that the majority of people on this council don't care for maintaining the "spirit of this resolution" by which I presume you mean resolution #68, the National Economic Freedoms resolution.
By "maintaining the spirit of the resolution", I meant that most of this council does not care about voting against or repealing the resolutions contradicting this one, which is a point rather openly discussed in the repeal. Yes, people still care about economic freedom, but people don't try to work with "National Economic Freedoms". I was either unclear on that point, or you're strawmanning me.But last time I looked which was mere seconds ago, most of the voters in this council have voted to kick this resolution into touch and keep the NEF. So are you honestly trying to tell me that this council has grown tired of economic freedom? Are you seriously telling me that people here want to appoint their own dictators? Are you seriously telling me that these member nations want to hire their own executioners for their own economies? It's absolute chutzpah! This is the WA, not the international Soviet council! I say passionately, keep your noses out of our economies and mind your own beeswax! I hope you enjoyed that meal you mentioned Mr Ambassador for Mundiferrum, because like your statement it is cold and stale.
Hmm, are you suggesting that me voting FOR this resolution is me going against economic freedom in general? Are you suggesting that this resolution aims to remove people of economic freedoms, instead of removing a massive inconsistency in World Assembly legislature? Well, now you seem to be misunderstanding the whole resolution.
by Araraukar » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:49 am
Defwa wrote:The world assembly is a group of nations that agree to operate in full compliance with whatever the assembly deems I necessary.
Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Defwa, forgive me for my somewhat "intoxicated" rambling as you say
*snip*
the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Defwa » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:53 am
Araraukar wrote:Defwa wrote:The world assembly is a group of nations that agree to operate in full compliance with whatever the assembly deems I necessary.
Janis had decided to take a drink from her water bottle, and couldn't help but choke, splutter and cough when hearing that claim. Angela must've been drunk again... or intentionally ignoring all the nations bickering about what "full compliance" meant.
[OOC: I damn near choked on my drink with laughter irl when reading that.]Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Defwa, forgive me for my somewhat "intoxicated" rambling as you say
*snip*
the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice.
Eee-yup, "intoxicated" sounds about right here.
...or else you're very, very new here. I'm not 100% sure which.
[OOC: Also, Angela (Defwan ambssador) is a woman, so either "Mrs" or "Miss".]
Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Defwa, forgive me for my somewhat "intoxicated" rambling as you say, but the way I see it, YOU are the drunk one for voting FOR this resolution! You start drunkenly spattering on about the duties of WA membership, now let me make one thing clear: the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice. But I'm sure that many people in this chamber will agree with me that that common goal won't be achieved through all this interference and Soviet-style restriction. The economic matters of the sovereign state are a matter for nationstate democracy and not of the international community. The WA resolution #68 protects the sovereign economic interests of the state and I would hate to see a WA without it. And on that note, I fail to see where I am contradicting anything, but the minority voting FOR this resolution.
by Krioval » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:44 am
by The Dark Star Republic » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:59 am
Krioval wrote:...many proposals that escape the attention of the Secretariat while containing (or failing to contain) language that puts it at odds with NEF could be more vigorously challenged by national delegations, either through direct appeals to the Secretariat...
by The Dark Star Republic » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:13 am
Mousebumples wrote:I could have sworn I replied from my phone, but my apologies if that didn't actually happen.
Mousebumples wrote:the author of this repeal has been ... less than flattering of our region in the TRR Times.
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:35 am
The Dark Star Republic wrote: I'm reliably informed that "Mousebumples has convinced Europeia to vote against your resolution purely out of unadultered spite".
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:31 pm
Araraukar wrote:Defwa wrote:The world assembly is a group of nations that agree to operate in full compliance with whatever the assembly deems I necessary.
Janis had decided to take a drink from her water bottle, and couldn't help but choke, splutter and cough when hearing that claim. Angela must've been drunk again... or intentionally ignoring all the nations bickering about what "full compliance" meant.
[OOC: I damn near choked on my drink with laughter irl when reading that.]Coroscent wrote:Mr Ambassador for Defwa, forgive me for my somewhat "intoxicated" rambling as you say
*snip*
the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice.
Eee-yup, "intoxicated" sounds about right here.
...or else you're very, very new here. I'm not 100% sure which.
[OOC: Also, Angela (Defwan ambssador) is a woman, so either "Mrs" or "Miss".]
by Defwa » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 pm
Coroscent wrote:Araraukar wrote:Janis had decided to take a drink from her water bottle, and couldn't help but choke, splutter and cough when hearing that claim. Angela must've been drunk again... or intentionally ignoring all the nations bickering about what "full compliance" meant.
[OOC: I damn near choked on my drink with laughter irl when reading that.]
Eee-yup, "intoxicated" sounds about right here.
...or else you're very, very new here. I'm not 100% sure which.
[OOC: Also, Angela (Defwan ambssador) is a woman, so either "Mrs" or "Miss".]
Mr/Ms Ambassador for Araraukar, I notice you haven't really been following this debate very closely; you appear to be referring to a statement that is both irrelevant and expired.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:38 pm
Defwa wrote:Coroscent wrote:
Mr/Ms Ambassador for Araraukar, I notice you haven't really been following this debate very closely; you appear to be referring to a statement that is both irrelevant and expired.
OOC: Araraukar was referring to one of your inane comments made just a few posts ago. Not exactly irrelevant or expired. Due to the wibbly wobbly temporal nature of this chamber, not everyone is in the room at the same time. Calm the frack down.
by Araraukar » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm
Coroscent wrote:Mr/Ms Ambassador for Araraukar
Coroscent wrote:IC: *The Yakusan Ambassador awaits a response*
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Araraukar » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:58 pm
Defwa wrote:OOC: The idea that compliance is required has never been under debate, to my knowledge.
So nations must agree to obey but they don't always follow through.
Either Coroscent is not listening or is not role playing (which makes his claims of soviet incursion both amusing and frightening).
He's just confusing NS with RL, as most newbies do.Coroscent wrote:the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:24 pm
Araraukar wrote:OOC post. Apparently something ate my reply to you, in favour of Janis's IC rant.Defwa wrote:OOC: The idea that compliance is required has never been under debate, to my knowledge.
Oh, I know that it's in the gameside WA rules, and inescapable due to game mechanics, and that outright noncompliance is frowned upon on this forum, and that DSR will growl at me for repeating that one again, but...So nations must agree to obey but they don't always follow through.
...this was more the cause of my amusement and IC reaction, as creative compliance has been around an age and a half.Either Coroscent is not listening or is not role playing (which makes his claims of soviet incursion both amusing and frightening).
What did you expect? He's a confused newbie (and most likely a teen from USA who's only read the propagandist material of how Soviet Russia was the embodiment of evil - sorry, Coros, but that's how you come off with your statements) that thinks, to literally quote:He's just confusing NS with RL, as most newbies do.Coroscent wrote:the WA is a cooperation of nations in the name of economic progress and common justice.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:28 pm
Defwa wrote:Coroscent wrote:
Mr/Ms Ambassador for Araraukar, I notice you haven't really been following this debate very closely; you appear to be referring to a statement that is both irrelevant and expired.
OOC: Araraukar was referring to one of your inane comments made just a few posts ago. Not exactly irrelevant or expired. Due to the wibbly wobbly temporal nature of this chamber, not everyone is in the room at the same time. Calm the frack down.
by Scavara » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:36 pm
by Defwa » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:43 pm
Ambassador Landfree, being forces to leave the office requests a defwean telepresense drone. With one not being available, an intern puts his phone on the table and puts the Ambassador on speaker.Coroscent wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC post. Apparently something ate my reply to you, in favour of Janis's IC rant.
Oh, I know that it's in the gameside WA rules, and inescapable due to game mechanics, and that outright noncompliance is frowned upon on this forum, and that DSR will growl at me for repeating that one again, but...
...this was more the cause of my amusement and IC reaction, as creative compliance has been around an age and a half.
What did you expect? He's a confused newbie (and most likely a teen from USA who's only read the propagandist material of how Soviet Russia was the embodiment of evil - sorry, Coros, but that's how you come off with your statements) that thinks, to literally quote: He's just confusing NS with RL, as most newbies do.
OOC:
1. I'm British. How dare you call me an American surely you can tell from mine spelling "organisation" not "organization", the correct way.
2. I'm most likely older than you.
3. I am not a newbie. Oh no.
4. I actually agree with some of the USSR's policies, but it's too bad they didn't work out.
5. Please stay in character; OOC posts ruin debates.
IC:
I'm glad that the Ararakuaran Ambassador has been removed from the chamber to calm down, hopefully he... I mean she can rejoin us when calmed down a little. But again I have to reiterate myself here: this resolution is being defeated without mercy! We the voters in favour of free market economies and nationstate democracy are winning, and it's inevitable that we will win this fight. The iron fist PC do-gooders as they probably like to think of themselves have lost this argument and there is no way that you can win this either. The majority of voters agree with me, and THAT is that.
by Coroscent » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:34 pm
Defwa wrote:Ambassador Landfree, being forces to leave the office requests a defwean telepresense drone. With one not being available, an intern puts his phone on the table and puts the Ambassador on speaker.Coroscent wrote:
OOC:
1. I'm British. How dare you call me an American surely you can tell from mine spelling "organisation" not "organization", the correct way.
2. I'm most likely older than you.
3. I am not a newbie. Oh no.
4. I actually agree with some of the USSR's policies, but it's too bad they didn't work out.
5. Please stay in character; OOC posts ruin debates.
IC:
I'm glad that the Ararakuaran Ambassador has been removed from the chamber to calm down, hopefully he... I mean she can rejoin us when calmed down a little. But again I have to reiterate myself here: this resolution is being defeated without mercy! We the voters in favour of free market economies and nationstate democracy are winning, and it's inevitable that we will win this fight. The iron fist PC do-gooders as they probably like to think of themselves have lost this argument and there is no way that you can win this either. The majority of voters agree with me, and THAT is that.
"The only thing you and the voters have in common is a lack of understanding about what's going on. The only difference is the majority of voters are not here and thus not learning. I don't know what your problem is. First we're soviet and now were politically correct? Are you just throwing out buzzwords hoping one will stick and be considered an insult? Would you mind addressing my last statement regarding the fact that political precedent makes this resolution do nothing? It needs to be replaced so its intent can be enforced."
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