NATION

PASSWORD

[Queued] Fair Industry Act

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

[Queued] Fair Industry Act

Postby Calladan » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:53 am

I have two questions regarding the queued proposal "Fair Industry Act" and since there doesn't seem to be a "draft" topic to discuss it, I thought I would raise them here.

Actually I have a number of questions, but these two seem the most compelling.

Member nations' corporations must not establish any private property of said corporations in another country without said country's consent.
- This regulation is exempted in an occupied state.


Firstly - and I realise this might be me just being picky - does "corporations" have a specific definition, or does it mean any company? Because in Calladan "corporations" and "companies" and "businesses" and so forth can all be defined differently, depending on their size, function and commercial structure. I won't bore you with the details, but suffice to say if Joe Bloggs wants to open up a corner shop in Genovia, Calladan would not consider that to be a "corporation" because it is one premise (premesis?) with two or three staff at most. However this proposal might consider it so and - well, we would like to know if that is the case.

Secondly - why is this regulation not applied in an occupied state?

If Genovia has been occupied by Calladan, then clearly it wouldn't matter whether we had consent or not, because for all intents and purposes Genovia no longer exists and it is part of Greater Calladan so we do not need consent to establish private property in our own territory.

But if Genovia has been occupied by Maryvilleland, then does this mean we do not need the consent of the government of Maryvilleland to establish private property in Genovia? Even though they are now the (for want of a better phrase) operational government of Genovia?

This seems like an important point to get cleared up - and it will also have an impact on the later points of the proposal.

If Calladan can establish a business (the definition of corporation notwithstanding) in a Maryvilleland occupied Genovia with or without the consent of the Maryvilleland government, then according to Clause 3.1 we are required to adhere to Calladan's labour laws (not Maryvilleland's) which seems to be a violation of national sovereignty (Maryvilleland's), according to Clause 3.2 we are required to uphold Genovia's Health and Safety Laws (which seems like a violation of both Maryvilleland's and Calladan's national sovereignty), according to Clause 3.3 we must enforce OUR minimum wage (see my objection to Clause 3.1) and Clause 3.4 seems to be dictating terms as to what WE must set OUR minimum wage at (because apparently if we invade and occupy a country we are required to care about the well being of the citizens of the country we just pillaged which seems a bit odd if you ask me - especially since the proposal SPECIFICALLY states we do NOT have to care about the union and socialised health care of the country).

Given the queue expires in 23 hours and it is about 60% shy of what it needs, this might end up being moot, but I just thought I would ask for clarification on my main point - why does the proposal not apply in countries under occupation and does it matter who is doing the occupying?
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump

User avatar
Tahkranul
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 102
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Tahkranul » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:08 am

OOC: Personally, I think it's someone's idea of a sick joke. Nationalist Socialist Republic of Poland proposing a law referencing business with regards to occupied states... Nazi Poland proposing laws about occupied... Nazi occupied Poland. Oy. Freaking. Vey.
Make all of NationStates RP again! ;)


User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:29 am

OOC: Next time, post the full text of the proposal, since what happened, often happens; it gets deleted for rules violation. And sometimes, in proposal text, context is the key to legality. Or sanity. Not that I think the target could've been legal either way, but there's usually a reason the rest of the text exists. There may be a definition with "for the purposes of this resolution" or something like that, which makes the following bits much more palatable.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:56 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Next time, post the full text of the proposal, since what happened, often happens; it gets deleted for rules violation. And sometimes, in proposal text, context is the key to legality. Or sanity. Not that I think the target could've been legal either way, but there's usually a reason the rest of the text exists. There may be a definition with "for the purposes of this resolution" or something like that, which makes the following bits much more palatable.


Apologies. The rest of it seemed reasonable (to me at least) - it was just the start that confused me :)
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump

User avatar
Hirota
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7528
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:25 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Next time, post the full text of the proposal, since what happened, often happens; it gets deleted for rules violation. And sometimes, in proposal text, context is the key to legality. Or sanity. Not that I think the target could've been legal either way, but there's usually a reason the rest of the text exists. There may be a definition with "for the purposes of this resolution" or something like that, which makes the following bits much more palatable.
The whole proposal was posted by Bears elsewhere
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.

Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:25 am

Hirota wrote:The whole proposal was posted by Bears elsewhere

OOC: Thank you. However, when posting a thread like this to discuss a failed proposal (we really should have a thread for doing that - the Illegal Proposals one isn't really the place to go into details), it helps to have the full text up, especially when particular excerpts are being used.

Quoting the post where it was posted to the Illegals (keep having to remind myself not call it Silly/Illegal anymore) would also work. :)
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Noahs Second Country
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 2047
Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:57 am

I'm surprised this achieved quorum
Westinor wrote:Who knew the face of Big Farma could be the greatest hero of the Cards Proleteriat?
Honeydewistania wrote:Such spunk and arrogance that he welcomes the brigade of hatred!
Orcuo wrote:The plan was foolproof! Unfortunately, I didn’t make it Noah-proof.
WeKnow wrote:I am not a fan of his in the slightest.
Benevolent 0 wrote:You can't seem to ever portray yourself straight.
Bormiar wrote: reckless and greedy, closer to a character issue than something to be rewarded.
Second Best™ - 7x Issues Author, 7x SC Author, Editor, Ex-Minister of Cards of the North Pacific

User avatar
Noahs Second Country
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 2047
Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:58 am

Wait, no it didn't!
Why are we still discussing this?
Westinor wrote:Who knew the face of Big Farma could be the greatest hero of the Cards Proleteriat?
Honeydewistania wrote:Such spunk and arrogance that he welcomes the brigade of hatred!
Orcuo wrote:The plan was foolproof! Unfortunately, I didn’t make it Noah-proof.
WeKnow wrote:I am not a fan of his in the slightest.
Benevolent 0 wrote:You can't seem to ever portray yourself straight.
Bormiar wrote: reckless and greedy, closer to a character issue than something to be rewarded.
Second Best™ - 7x Issues Author, 7x SC Author, Editor, Ex-Minister of Cards of the North Pacific

User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:43 am

Noahs Second Country wrote:Wait, no it didn't!
Why are we still discussing this?


Some kind people were pointing out that it is helpful to post the entire text of a proposal when talking about it, so that if - as in this case - it disappears from the queue - there is something to refer back to.

And I, for one, am grateful for their advice and will do that next time.
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 12659
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:09 pm

Calladan wrote:
Noahs Second Country wrote:Wait, no it didn't!
Why are we still discussing this?


Some kind people were pointing out that it is helpful to post the entire text of a proposal when talking about it, so that if - as in this case - it disappears from the queue - there is something to refer back to.

And I, for one, am grateful for their advice and will do that next time.

I've always understood that [IN QUEUE] or [QUEUED] mean that it has achieved quorum. [SUBMITTED] would mean that it has not.

Author: 1 SC and 56+ GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
GenSec (24 Dec 2021 –); posts not official unless so indicated
Delegate for Europe
Elsie Mortimer Wellesley
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Twice-commended toxic villainous globalist kittehs

User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:59 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Calladan wrote:
Some kind people were pointing out that it is helpful to post the entire text of a proposal when talking about it, so that if - as in this case - it disappears from the queue - there is something to refer back to.

And I, for one, am grateful for their advice and will do that next time.

I've always understood that [IN QUEUE] or [QUEUED] mean that it has achieved quorum. [SUBMITTED] would mean that it has not.


Again - apologies. I am still learning the grammar and etiquette (?) of the forum :)
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump

User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:26 am

So - just to see if I have this clear :-

[DRAFT] means someone is writing it, but hasn't submitted it yet.

[SUBMITTED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA but hasn't got enough votes/support/etc

[QUEUED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA and HAS got enough votes/support/etc

[AT VOTED] means we are voting on it.

Is that it? Are there any other statuses/prefixes we can use? Or if you just want to open a discussion, do you not prefix it and just use a title that relates to what you wish to discuss? (Or is that not permitted?) (And would I be better asking these sorts of questions somewhere else?)
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump

User avatar
Merni
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1800
Founded: May 03, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Merni » Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:45 am

Calladan wrote:So - just to see if I have this clear :-

[DRAFT] means someone is writing it, but hasn't submitted it yet.

[SUBMITTED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA but hasn't got enough votes/support/etc

[QUEUED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA and HAS got enough votes/support/etc

[AT VOTED] means we are voting on it.

Is that it? Are there any other statuses/prefixes we can use? Or if you just want to open a discussion, do you not prefix it and just use a title that relates to what you wish to discuss? (Or is that not permitted?) (And would I be better asking these sorts of questions somewhere else?)

Right, though it's "At Vote" not "At Voted".

When you discuss something that's not legislation you can use [Discussion] or [OOC Discussion]. If it's something WA related you can do it here; it's not (very) frowned upon. ;)
Last edited by Merni on Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
2024: the year of democracy. Vote!
The Labyrinth | Donate your free time, help make free ebooks | Admins: Please let us block WACC TGs!
RIP Residency 3.5.16-18.11.21, killed by simplistic calculation
Political Compass: Economic -9.5 (Left) / Social -3.85 (Liberal)
Wrote issue 1523, GA resolutions 532 and 659
meth
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.' — Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)
You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. — Ardchoille
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion [...] but rather by its superiority in applying organised violence. — Samuel P. Huntington (even he said that!)

User avatar
Calladan
Minister
 
Posts: 3064
Founded: Jul 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Calladan » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:17 am

Merni wrote:
Calladan wrote:So - just to see if I have this clear :-

[DRAFT] means someone is writing it, but hasn't submitted it yet.

[SUBMITTED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA but hasn't got enough votes/support/etc

[QUEUED] means it is in the proposal list for the WA and HAS got enough votes/support/etc

[AT VOTED] means we are voting on it.

Is that it? Are there any other statuses/prefixes we can use? Or if you just want to open a discussion, do you not prefix it and just use a title that relates to what you wish to discuss? (Or is that not permitted?) (And would I be better asking these sorts of questions somewhere else?)

Right, though it's "At Vote" not "At Voted".


That was a typo - sorry :) I do try to check these things before clicking submit, but sometimes they get through :)


When you discuss something that's not legislation you can use [Discussion] or [OOC Discussion]. If it's something WA related you can do it here; it's not (very) frowned upon. ;)


Thank you.
Tara A McGill, Ambassador to Lucinda G Doyle III
"Always be yourself, unless you can be Zathras. Then be Zathras"
A Rough Guide To Calladan | The Seven Years of Darkness | Ambassador McGill's Facebook Page
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, providing they are Christian & white" - Trump


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General Assembly

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads