[DRAFT] Repeal "Living Wage Act"

[Defwa]

I support proposals to repeal the Living Wage Act as I've tried to do this myself in the past.

In the real-world United States, this resolution would require a minimum wage of about $12.60 per hour.

OOC: Oh no, that would be awful. It'd be almost like people who worked deserved to eat every once in a while.

[Separatist Peoples]

I support proposals to repeal the Living Wage Act as I've tried to do this myself in the past.

In the real-world United States, this resolution would require a minimum wage of about $12.60 per hour.

OOC: Oh no, that would be awful. It'd be almost like people who worked deserved to eat every once in a while.

Ooc: That's roughly 25k/year, which is a shitload to pay out. That may be even more for NS nations to pay out per person per year.

[Christian Democrats]

OOC: Oh no, that would be awful. It'd be almost like people who worked deserved to eat every once in a while.

Ooc: That's roughly 25k/year, which is a shitload to pay out. That may be even more for NS nations to pay out per person per year.

And to add to Separatist Peoples' comment, the majority of WA members are not as economically well-off as the real-world United States. This Assembly should take into account the situations of its less developed nations too.

Even in the U.S., a minimum wage of $25,000 per year would kill employment in some areas.

http://www.mdes.ms.gov/media/8639/pci.pdf

[Defwa]

Ooc: That's roughly 25k/year, which is a shitload to pay out. That may be even more for NS nations to pay out per person per year.

And to add to Separatist Peoples' comment, the majority of WA members are not as economically well-off as the real-world United States. This Assembly should take into account the situations of its less developed nations too.

Even in the U.S., a minimum wage of $25,000 per year would kill employment in some areas.

http://www.mdes.ms.gov/media/8639/pci.pdf

OOC But it does- the living wage is only set to be how ever much it costs to live in that country. That may be $25,000 in the US, but in Malaysia and Nicaragua, the dependent poverty line would be ~$12,000.
I'm not sure what that image is supposed to show other than some places in America could really use some effective wealth redistribution but here's one showing a reversed relationship between minimum wage hikes and the employment rate than the one you're providing [linkidy] (with the exception being the recession of 2008 caused by unrelated circumstances but the 60s, late 70s, and late 90s show it pretty clearly). What happens is low level employees gain disposable income which goes into small businesses and creating need for additional people to service them. Price increase but not as much as one might assume because the middle income level has not changed and prices are targeted to that income bracket.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I don't think anybody is arguing, ICly, that there should be no living wage. The argument is being made that the current amount is too much, and fails to consider the full range of effects of minimum living wage as LWA determines it. I'm on the fence myself, but I can definitely agree that 25k/year minimum for a US equivalent nation is probably too much in many places, especially when compounded by LWA's wording.

Though, it's worth pointing out that the US poverty line (I assume all 48 contiguous states averaged) is ~25k for a household of four. For one person, it's about $11K Were the US a WA member, LWA would require 25k much for one person, unless I misunderstand CD's statistic.

[Christian Democrats]

<snip>

That chart doesn't prove anything. It's true that a small increase in the minimum wage can stimulate some economic activity in the way that you say. A large increase, on the other hand, can collapse an economy ("too much of a good thing").

Unless you're living in an imaginary world divorced completely from reality, I don't think you'll deny, for example, that a minimum wage increase to $30 or $40 would not increase employment and make everyone more wealthy.

The minimum wage is about striking a balance for a particular economic and social context, something for which the LWA does not account given its one-size-fits-all mandate.

Though, it's worth pointing out that the US poverty line (I assume all 48 contiguous states averaged) is ~25k for a household of four. For one person, it's about $11K Were the US a WA member, LWA would require 25k much for one person, unless I misunderstand CD's statistic.

The LWA requires employers to pay 125% of the two-person poverty line based on a 30-hour workweek.

Two-person poverty line = $15,730
$15,730 x 1.25 = $19,662.50
30 hours x 52 weeks = 1560 hours
$19,662.50 / 1560 hours = $12.60/hr

[Separatist Peoples]

<snip>

That chart doesn't prove anything. It's true that a small increase in the minimum wage can stimulate some economic activity in the way that you say. A large increase, on the other hand, can collapse an economy ("too much of a good thing").

Unless you're living in an imaginary world divorced completely from reality, I don't think you'll deny, for example, that a minimum wage increase to $30 or $40 would not increase employment and make everyone more wealthy.

The minimum wage is about striking a balance for a particular economic and social context, something for which the LWA does not account given its one-size-fits-all mandate.

Though, it's worth pointing out that the US poverty line (I assume all 48 contiguous states averaged) is ~25k for a household of four. For one person, it's about $11K Were the US a WA member, LWA would require 25k much for one person, unless I misunderstand CD's statistic.

The LWA requires employers to pay 125% of the two-person poverty line based on a 30-hour workweek.

Two-person poverty line = $15,730
$15,730 x 1.25 = $19,662.50
30 hours x 52 weeks = 1560 hours
$19,662.50 / 1560 hours = $12.60/hr

Ah, a 30 hour workweek, not 40. My math is incorrect, then, but my point stands.

[Bears Armed]

The LWA requires employers to pay 125% of the two-person poverty line based on a 30-hour workweek.

No, that's for a 30-or-more hour workweek: 30 hours is just the minimum length specified as counting as "full-time" employment.

[Christian Democrats]

The LWA requires employers to pay 125% of the two-person poverty line based on a 30-hour workweek.

No, that's for a 30-or-more hour workweek: 30 hours is just the minimum length specified as counting as "full-time" employment.

Thus, to comply with the LWA, a NationState identical to the real-world United States would have to set its minimum wage at $12.60 per hour; otherwise, not every worker would receive the wage to which he is legally entitled.

[Chester Pearson]

Even in the U.S., a minimum wage of $25,000 per year would kill employment in some areas.

OOC: And where I am from, you couldn't pay rent and eat at the same time on that....

[Christian Democrats]

Even in the U.S., a minimum wage of $25,000 per year would kill employment in some areas.

OOC: And where I am from, you couldn't pay rent and eat at the same time on that....

This supports the repeal effort: the minimum wage is a national or local issue.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC: And where I am from, you couldn't pay rent and eat at the same time on that....

This supports the repeal effort: the minimum wage is a national or local issue.

NOTES that the Poverty Lines are defined on an area basis, and sets no limits as to how any nation may define such areas save that they must lie wholly within the nation's boundaries;

I'm afraid I don't see how internal or sectional disparities necessitate a repeal. The target resolution specifically allows for differences in wages depending on what the numbers are locally.

[Christian Democrats]

I'm afraid I don't see how internal or sectional disparities necessitate a repeal. The target resolution specifically allows for differences in wages depending on what the numbers are locally.

The resolution does not allow for nearly enough leeway. If you read it, what it requires is actually quite mindboggling.

For one thing, the LWA requires employers to pay workers based on the cost of an AVERAGE dwelling and based on the cost of AVERAGE transportation. Now, for a moment, just think about what this sort of policy would do in a real-world nation: every time the average increases, the minimum wage would need to be increased, which in turn would drive up the average, which in turn would necessitate another minimum wage increase, which in turn would drive up the average, until the economy collapses from inflation. (Price controls might be able to prevent such a spiral, but this would mean the government would be forcing thousands or millions of families to live below their means.)

That the LWA makes a welfare exception doesn't help because that exception applies only to "income or benefits provided to all workers."

[Chester Pearson]

I'm afraid I don't see how internal or sectional disparities necessitate a repeal. The target resolution specifically allows for differences in wages depending on what the numbers are locally.

The resolution does not allow for nearly enough leeway. If you read it, what it requires is actually quite mindboggling.

For one thing, the LWA requires employers to pay workers based on the cost of an AVERAGE dwelling and based on the cost of AVERAGE transportation. Now, for a moment, just think about what this sort of policy would do in a real-world nation: every time the average increases, the minimum wage would need to be increased, which in turn would drive up the average, which in turn would necessitate another minimum wage increase, which in turn would drive up the average, until the economy collapses from inflation. (Price controls might be able to prevent such a spiral, but this would mean the government would be forcing thousands or millions of families to live below their means.)

That the LWA makes a welfare exception doesn't help because that exception applies only to "income or benefits provided to all workers."

That line of reasoning is actually pretty sound. I don't believe I am saying this, but I will actually support this repeal.... (Let's not make a habit of agreeing on things okay? The world may blow up if the trend continues.....)

[Defwa]

I hadn't ever noticed the implications of the word average. While the Christian Democrats are still using and invalid economic theory [raising minimum wage will mean you have to raise minimum wage more] in their argument, the possible abuse of the word average does extend far above regular needs and on those grounds, I will advise the WA of such an issue.

However I cannot support a repeal that claims that simply because someone is in seasonal employment or has alternative income, they should not be paid a fair wage. Thus I would prefer that clauses A and B be struck out and replaced with something else.

[Old Hope]

I hadn't ever noticed the implications of the word average. While the Christian Democrats are still using and invalid economic theory [raising minimum wage will mean you have to raise minimum wage more] in their argument, the possible abuse of the word average does extend far above regular needs and on those grounds, I will advise the WA of such an issue.

However I cannot support a repeal that claims that simply because someone is in seasonal employment or has alternative income, they should not be paid a fair wage. Thus I would prefer that clauses A and B be struck out and replaced with something else.

What should we do? Amend the resolution
There is no method in the World Assembly for amendments, so we have to repeal this if we want to improve it.

[Defwa]

I hadn't ever noticed the implications of the word average. While the Christian Democrats are still using and invalid economic theory [raising minimum wage will mean you have to raise minimum wage more] in their argument, the possible abuse of the word average does extend far above regular needs and on those grounds, I will advise the WA of such an issue.

However I cannot support a repeal that claims that simply because someone is in seasonal employment or has alternative income, they should not be paid a fair wage. Thus I would prefer that clauses A and B be struck out and replaced with something else.

What should we do? Amend the resolution
There is no method in the World Assembly for amendments, so we have to repeal this if we want to improve it.

Okay, first off, dear- don't try to talk to me like I'm the idiot in the room until you can bring together four words in a proposal that aren't illegal.

Second, nowhere did I suggest an amendment to the LWA. I merely said I cannot support the current basis for repeal as written.
Calm your tits, watch and learn.

[Chester Pearson]

Okay, first off, dear- don't try to talk to me like I'm the idiot in the room until you can bring together four words in a proposal that aren't illegal.

How about I talk dirty to you instead.....

[Separatist Peoples]

I hadn't ever noticed the implications of the word average. While the Christian Democrats are still using and invalid economic theory [raising minimum wage will mean you have to raise minimum wage more] in their argument, the possible abuse of the word average does extend far above regular needs and on those grounds, I will advise the WA of such an issue.

However I cannot support a repeal that claims that simply because someone is in seasonal employment or has alternative income, they should not be paid a fair wage. Thus I would prefer that clauses A and B be struck out and replaced with something else.

What should we do? Amend the resolution
There is no method in the World Assembly for amendments, so we have to repeal this if we want to improve it.

"God damn, you are just determined to burn as many bridges as you possibly can here, aren't you? You should take the old Jakusan office, ambassador, and contemplate how silly it was to try to educate a GA Resolution author and longtime GA veteran on how the WA works."

[Defwa]

*blows an appreciative kiss to Bell*

Okay, first off, dear- don't try to talk to me like I'm the idiot in the room until you can bring together four words in a proposal that aren't illegal.

How about I talk dirty to you instead.....

Is it warm in here? I am warm.