The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, Version IV)

[Jeruselem]

Nation zombie-ism time here

[Makalele]

I have a question, how do we know the scores, who won etc if we're not actually playing it but imagining it. Sorry, first timer.

[Flardania]

I have a question, how do we know the scores, who won etc if we're not actually playing it but imagining it. Sorry, first timer.

A scorinating program that take in consideration your rank, you roleplay bonuses, and randomness. I believe the specifics on roleplay bonus is in the op (opening post)

[Madesu]

I have a question, how do we know the scores, who won etc if we're not actually playing it but imagining it. Sorry, first timer.

Those hosting the tournament will have a separate thread for results only, and they'll usually provide the link for it once the RPing thread is made.

[Greater Rashland]

sorry pretty much you're just showing off your lineups talk about how energrtic your players are etc

[Cosumar]

sorry pretty much you're just showing off your lineups talk about how energrtic your players are etc

Basically, but that's really just scratching the surface. I would read through the last World Cup's RP thread to get an idea of all the things you can do with it. Many people write stories only tangentially related to the World Cup, others get really in-depth in describing the actual players/matches. There's a lot of freedom and you can get pretty creative with it.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

sorry pretty much you're just showing off your lineups talk about how energrtic your players are etc

Basically, but that's really just scratching the surface. I would read through the last World Cup's RP thread to get an idea of all the things you can do with it. Many people write stories only tangentially related to the World Cup, others get really in-depth in describing the actual players/matches. There's a lot of freedom and you can get pretty creative with it.

Yeah, I even fought a war one World Cup.

[Armeia]

Basically, but that's really just scratching the surface. I would read through the last World Cup's RP thread to get an idea of all the things you can do with it. Many people write stories only tangentially related to the World Cup, others get really in-depth in describing the actual players/matches. There's a lot of freedom and you can get pretty creative with it.

Yeah, I even fought a war one World Cup.

Without giving too much away, I'm going to be fighting a war during this World Cup cycle that ties into my storylines actually

But yeah there's a lot of stuff you can do, I've done RPs ranging from detailed tactical overviews to stories about what the players do off the pitch, or narrative accounts of the matches

[Frenline Delpha]

Okay, so it's time to decode this entire NSFS vs SQIS debate. I have gathered both of their codes, and I will post them down below. However, I don't know how to read the code Xkoranate is written in, so I'll need someone else to tell me what each one does, specifically.

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

-<sport version="0.3">

<name>Association football—NSFS formula</name>

<discipline>Association football</discipline>

<event>NSFS formula</event>

<scorinator/>

<!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->


<paradigm>nsfs</paradigm>


-<paradigmOptions>

<double type="homeAdvantage">7.5</double>

<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

<double type="etAttackCoeff">0.333333333333</double>

<double type="goldenGoalProb">0.4</double>

<double type="shootoutProb">0.65</double>

<double type="shootoutLength">5</double>

<double type="pointValues">1</double>

<double type="attackCoeffs">1</double>


-<list type="tiebreakers">

<string>extratime</string>

<string>shootout</string>

</list>


-<list type="tiebreakerNames">

<string>AET</string>

<string>pen.</string>

</list>

<!-- NSFS parameters -->


<double type="baseAttackCoeff">667.5</double>

<double type="rankDiffModifier">12</double>

<double type="rankCoeff">31.5</double>

<double type="rankScalar">0.5</double>

<double type="baseAttackSuccessThreshold">580</double>

<int type="baseAttacksSuperior">10</int>

<int type="baseAttacksInferior">10</int>

<double type="attackCoeffSuperior">10</double>

<double type="attackCoeffInferior">0</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffA">2.0991677816057</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffB">1.2442581729602</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleExponent">-0.42705203296846</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleOffset">0.072435335725325</double>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">GF</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">GA</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">GD</string>

</paradigmOptions>

<!-- the style modifier distribution is a bit wonky because negative modifiers are less likely to take effect -->



-<dataPoints name="style">

<dataPoint pos="0">-3</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.4">-1</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.5">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.65">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="1">3</dataPoint>

</dataPoints>

</sport>

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

-<sport version="0.3">

<name>Association football—SQIS formula</name>

<discipline>Association football</discipline>

<event>SQIS formula</event>

<scorinator/>

<!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->


<paradigm>sqis</paradigm>


-<paradigmOptions>

<double type="constantA">0.1</double>

<double type="constantB">0.07</double>

<double type="homeAdvantage">1.333333333333</double>

<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

<int type="attacks">12</int>

<double type="etAttackCoeff">0.333333333333</double>

<int type="shootoutLength">5</int>

<double type="goldenGoalProb">0.5</double>

<double type="shootoutProb">0.65</double>

<int type="pointValues">1</int>

<double type="attackCoeffs">1</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffA">2.0991677816057</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffB">1.2442581729602</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleExponent">-0.42705203296846</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleOffset">0.072435335725325</double>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">GF</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">GA</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">GD</string>


-<list type="tiebreakers">

<string>extratime</string>

<string>shootout</string>

</list>


-<list type="tiebreakerNames">

<string>AET</string>

<string>pen.</string>

</list>

</paradigmOptions>

<!-- the style modifier distribution is a bit wonky because negative modifiers are less likely to take effect -->



-<dataPoints name="style">

<dataPoint pos="0">-3</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.4">-1</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.5">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.65">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="1">3</dataPoint>

</dataPoints>

</sport>

[Osarius]

My understanding is that the actual relevant code -- the formulas used, primarily -- isn't in the xml files.
The bits you want are in the source code. The formulas are in the paradigm files, for a start.

[Jeruselem]

XML is just the storage/display format. The coding logic isn't in the XML files.

[Frenline Delpha]

XML is just the storage/display format. The coding logic isn't in the XML files.

Where do you find it? 'Cause I really want this debate solved. It's better for everyone.

[Saintland]

XML is just the storage/display format. The coding logic isn't in the XML files.

Where do you find it? 'Cause I really want this debate solved. It's better for everyone.

http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/xkoranate/x ... source.zip

[Frenline Delpha]

Where do you find it? 'Cause I really want this debate solved. It's better for everyone.

http://www.thirdgeek.com/ns/xkoranate/x ... source.zip

Thanks. Now, this is what I got from the source code.

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

-<sport version="0.3">

<name>Association football—NSFS formula</name>

<discipline>Association football</discipline>

<event>NSFS formula</event>

<scorinator/>

<!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->


<paradigm>nsfs</paradigm>


-<paradigmOptions>

<double type="homeAdvantage">7.5</double>

<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

<double type="etAttackCoeff">0.333333333333</double>

<double type="goldenGoalProb">0.4</double>

<double type="shootoutProb">0.65</double>

<double type="shootoutLength">5</double>

<double type="pointValues">1</double>

<double type="attackCoeffs">1</double>


-<list type="tiebreakers">

<string>extratime</string>

<string>shootout</string>

</list>


-<list type="tiebreakerNames">

<string>AET</string>

<string>pen.</string>

</list>

<!-- NSFS parameters -->


<double type="baseAttackCoeff">667.5</double>

<double type="rankDiffModifier">12</double>

<double type="rankCoeff">31.5</double>

<double type="rankScalar">0.5</double>

<double type="baseAttackSuccessThreshold">580</double>

<int type="baseAttacksSuperior">10</int>

<int type="baseAttacksInferior">10</int>

<double type="attackCoeffSuperior">10</double>

<double type="attackCoeffInferior">0</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffA">2.0991677816057</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffB">1.2442581729602</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleExponent">-0.42705203296846</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleOffset">0.072435335725325</double>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">GF</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">GA</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">GD</string>

</paradigmOptions>

<!-- the style modifier distribution is a bit wonky because negative modifiers are less likely to take effect -->



-<dataPoints name="style">

<dataPoint pos="0">-3</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.4">-1</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.5">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.65">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="1">3</dataPoint>

</dataPoints>

</sport>

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

-<sport version="0.3">

<name>Association football—SQIS formula</name>

<discipline>Association football</discipline>

<event>SQIS formula</event>

<scorinator/>

<!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->


<paradigm>sqis</paradigm>


-<paradigmOptions>

<double type="constantA">0.1</double>

<double type="constantB">0.07</double>

<double type="homeAdvantage">1.333333333333</double>

<double type="homeAdvantageGG">0.133333333333</double>

<int type="attacks">12</int>

<double type="etAttackCoeff">0.333333333333</double>

<int type="shootoutLength">5</int>

<double type="goldenGoalProb">0.5</double>

<double type="shootoutProb">0.65</double>

<int type="pointValues">1</int>

<double type="attackCoeffs">1</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffA">2.0991677816057</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleCoeffB">1.2442581729602</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleExponent">-0.42705203296846</double>

<double type="NSFSStyleOffset">0.072435335725325</double>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">GF</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">GA</string>

<string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">GD</string>


-<list type="tiebreakers">

<string>extratime</string>

<string>shootout</string>

</list>


-<list type="tiebreakerNames">

<string>AET</string>

<string>pen.</string>

</list>

</paradigmOptions>

<!-- the style modifier distribution is a bit wonky because negative modifiers are less likely to take effect -->



-<dataPoints name="style">

<dataPoint pos="0">-3</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.4">-1</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.5">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="0.65">0</dataPoint>

<dataPoint pos="1">3</dataPoint>

</dataPoints>

</sport>

[Starblaydia]

The various NSWC Signups flags are here. We're currently using the black, red and yellow one due to the fact that the reigning World Cup champs are Germany.

I'm assuming the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse will ride in and destroy the world once the United States becomes the basis for the NSWC sign-ups flag.

Honoured and a little confused there is a Dutch one. How many more finals must we lose?

For the World Cup I went through who were in the tournament at around the Last 16 stage and did all of those to fit the possibilities, hence there being a Cote D'Ivoire one, for instance. When the USA gets to the last 16 or last 8 on a regular basis then it might be time for an update

A bit awkwardly (since these things usually tend to work in the opposite direction) it's my sad duty to inform you all that who was to be Mrs. Stvoto Latoli is no longer part of my life. I'd been quite burned out, and planning on leaving NationStates, but now there's rather something of a hole where she used to be. You lot have, without knowing it, gotten me through trying circumstances in the past, and I (sheepishly) ask for your help once again. With a heavy heart, I'm very much back on NS. Thank you for being my friends.

Been there myself, pal, and have come out far better for it in the long run. You'll get there.

Okay, so it's time to decode this entire NSFS vs SQIS debate. I have gathered both of their codes, and I will post them down below. However, I don't know how to read the code Xkoranate is written in, so I'll need someone else to tell me what each one does, specifically.

May I suggest the person who wants to "decode this entire NSFS vs SQIS debate" is someone who actually is able to code?

[HUElavia]

I have a question: All the nations signing up for the WC are signing up for the qualifications, right?

[Frenline Delpha]

I have a question: All the nations signing up for the WC are signing up for the qualifications, right?

Yes. In fact only thirty teams (besides the two hosts) will make it into the World Cup proper.

[Saintland]

I have a question: All the nations signing up for the WC are signing up for the qualifications, right?

Yes. In fact only thirty teams (besides the two hosts) will make it into the World Cup proper.

In fact, its a constitutional requirement that every WC bid must use a 32 team format for the WC finals. There is, however, no rule that prohibits there from being more than 2 hosts or more than 2 hosts from automatically qualifying. We've had 2 recent WCs where there were 4 hosts for qualifying but only 2 of them *technically* hosted the WC. If either group of hosts had wanted to split the WC finals 4 ways instead of the conventional 2 ways and have just 28 spots contested in qualifying, the bid would have been legal (but less likely to win the host vote).

[Frenline Delpha]

Yes. In fact only thirty teams (besides the two hosts) will make it into the World Cup proper.

In fact, its a constitutional requirement that every WC bid must use a 32 team format for the WC finals. There is, however, no rule that prohibits there from being more than 2 hosts or more than 2 hosts from automatically qualifying. We've had 2 recent WCs where there were 4 hosts for qualifying but only 2 of them *technically* hosted the WC. If either group of hosts had wanted to split the WC finals 4 ways instead of the conventional 2 ways and have just 28 spots contested in qualifying, the bid would have been legal (but less likely to win the host vote).

That is true. I was just describing the standard situation, but this can happen as well.
And on that note, I think the 4-way style would be best used if a newer player wanted to host the World Cup. Less things to worry about, but better experience later on.

[Krytenia]

Nation zombie-ism time here

Please. I was coming back from long hiatuses (hiati?) before it was mainstream.

[NSWC Signups]

You have 56 hours (or 2 days and 6 hours) from this point to submit any further bids for the BoF and WC. Good hunting, people!

[Barunia]

You have 56 hours (or 2 days and 6 hours) from this point to submit any further bids for the BoF and WC. Good hunting, people!

24+24+6=56? That's some...interesting mathematics.

[Alasdair I Frosticus]

Nation zombie-ism time here

Please. I was coming back from long hiatuses (hiati?) before it was mainstream.

And I was doing it before most current WC participants had even been founded

[Osarius]

You have 56 hours (or 2 days and 6 hours) from this point to submit any further bids for the BoF and WC. Good hunting, people!

24+24+6=56? That's some...interesting mathematics.

Been studyin dem numbers 25/8, son!

[Apox]

24+24+6=56? That's some...interesting mathematics.

Been studyin dem numbers 25/8, son!

Lol my bad, should of course been 2 days and 8 hours from that point, particularly awkward as a physics student