International Domestic Soccer Discussion

[Eura]

Alright, so after some recent discussion on the IRC, I'm wondering when y'all want to have our "official" transfer window. Right now, I'm leaning in favor of this upcoming weekend (Friday Mar 6 - Sunday Mar , with the main event on the IRC on Saturday afternoon/evening.

And for those of you who want to post your available free transfers and some rumors early, the sheet for the next window can be found here.

I personally think it should be later, maybe a week or so later. The last few windows have been really early which reduces participation as far as I can tell, especially for users who find it difficult to start doing their league RP early.

[Taeshan]

Alright, so after some recent discussion on the IRC, I'm wondering when y'all want to have our "official" transfer window. Right now, I'm leaning in favor of this upcoming weekend (Friday Mar 6 - Sunday Mar , with the main event on the IRC on Saturday afternoon/evening.

And for those of you who want to post your available free transfers and some rumors early, the sheet for the next window can be found here.

I personally think it should be later, maybe a week or so later. The last few windows have been really early which reduces participation as far as I can tell, especially for users who find it difficult to start doing their league RP early.

I agree with this. I just kind of lost track of time and got my stuff in last minute, i feel doing it so early kinda forces us right back into everything. Give it a week or so, the cups haven't even finished. Also, next week will be the first time i get a chance to go through everything with it being my break.

[Kernansquillec]

I wouldn't mind an extra week or two since I'm still finalizing the full list of players in my top two divisions, along with a brand new ranking system, all in a beautiful excel

[95X]

+1 for giving it a few weeks so more people have the chance to prepare/schedule. As I've helped myself to mention on the spreadsheet w/o a Google account, the other nine Soccer League X teams are looking for more national and international relevancy, and figure that a league that gives four regular season chances against each opponent (9 opponents x 4 = 36 games) without the pressures of relegation would give something unique to the mix. And, yes, the point of setting up actual roster lists (which I have for all 10 teams, just not actually formatted) is to have something to go off of. That and it makes no sense for the #19-ranked League in the multiverse to operate as if it were in a vacuum.

[Apox]

Seems we're pretty strongly in favour of pushing things back a week then - while I originally gave my support to this weekend, I'm not particularly fussed about the date, even though next weekend there is quite a strong likelihood I won't be around much to participate fully.

[Nephara]

But pushing it back a week gives people a week less time to start their RPs. I'd say to wait until the deadline. If it's very close, like it was for this season, it's likely people are going to need all the time they can get. Pushing one or two domestic leagues into three weeks in any detail is going to be impossible to deal with.

It also delays truly up-to-date rosters being posted. Just a huge knock-on effect, honestly - and I'm convinced it isn't worth it.

[95X]

Pushing one or two domestic leagues into three weeks in any detail is going to be impossible to deal with.

And here we touch on the issue that NS Sports has always had—namely, that some would prefer events like the NSWC and UICA competitions (which CH doesn't get enough credit for, IMHO) to run continuously, maybe even up to the point where MD1 of the next competition takes place the RL day after the previous championship game is played, while others would like a more spread-out schedule.

I, for one, have enjoyed having the UICA Championships take place less often. Right now (first week of March), we're on CC 58/GC 55/SBCC 55/YC 10; the last one took place the end of December. That gave two months to put things together for this last one, as an example.

It might be interesting to run a survey of those with domestic leagues, along the likes of: 1) how much time do various users spend on their domestic leagues, 2) what is their favorite part of running their domestic league, 3) do they feel UICA competitions take place too often/just right/too seldomly, 4) How many other leagues do others follow, and how far in-depth do they follow them.

[Nephara]

The fact that they run more or less at the rate of 2 UICA per WC cycle allows a coherent timescale to form. That's too important to throw away.

[Cosumar]

I concur with Nephara. UICA needs to continue at its current rate of two cycles per Cup. That's essential to the very IC framework as it currently exists for many nations. Accordingly, I would prefer the window take place not later than next week (Mar 13-16?).

[Valanora]

I hardly think moving the transfer window back a week (or two) will drastically influence the ability for people to RP their leagues, as evidenced during almost every window, the vast majority wait until CH posts the deadline before they begin organizing their leagues.

[Apox]

I hardly think moving the transfer window back a week (or two) will drastically influence the ability for people to RP their leagues, as evidenced during almost every window, the vast majority wait until CH posts the deadline before they begin organizing their leagues.

I would agree with Valanora that moving the window back a week is no bad thing - however, moving it back any further back than that would cause trouble for me personally. This window I barely had time to finish RPing my league to the standard I expect - for each cycle I imagine I put roughly 15-20 hours into those 4 posts I do, and I imagine others would do likewise, and therefore we need a fair bit of time to sufficiently RP everything. It can also be shown how many leagues these days are forced to placeholder their leagues extensively and not RP them to the standard they hope.

And yet, having UICA twice per WC is also important. There is a balance to be struck. Therefore, I think, having the "official" transfer window fairly promptly after UICA finishes is important.

[Stvoto Latoli]

I hardly think moving the transfer window back a week (or two) will drastically influence the ability for people to RP their leagues, as evidenced during almost every window, the vast majority wait until CH posts the deadline before they begin organizing their leagues.

I completely agree. How much effect would bumping the window one measly week really have? Isn't this a bit of a storm in a teacup? Not long ago we had no window at all, people just did transfers with whoever whenever however and for the most part things worked completely fine.

EDIT: I'll also echo 95X's sentiments - we've been bickering since time eternal about how fast or slow things should move, not only here but in the WC. This discussion is not new. Personally, I've never really found the "things should move quickly" argument terribly persuasive (there's nothing that shoves people out of NS more consistently than RP fatigue), but I acknowledge that other people might have valid, different views.

[Eura]

But pushing it back a week gives people a week less time to start their RPs. I'd say to wait until the deadline. If it's very close, like it was for this season, it's likely people are going to need all the time they can get. Pushing one or two domestic leagues into three weeks in any detail is going to be impossible to deal with.

It also delays truly up-to-date rosters being posted. Just a huge knock-on effect, honestly - and I'm convinced it isn't worth it.

I prefer two cycles per cup as well, but the transfer window system should be more flexible when its not official and when we brought it in the first place just to give people more options and to create another RPing opportunity for domestic leagues. Maybe I'm not the only one but these days the windows are so early that if you miss them due to other circumstances its difficult to conduct many international transfers.

For me it seems like a good solution would be to have two transfer window events, one early after the UICA cycle is scored and one nearer the next UICA cutoff. Either way I don't think it would be particularly healthy if we all started constraining ourselves to a fixed window cycle based on the RP time cycle of a significant portion of but not all users, and I say that as someone who would be using the two UICA per WC system ideally and I plan to get back on to it.

Either way, as Valanora pointed out, moving it back would not be the end of the world. You could always do most of your writeup without all of the transfer window you want anyway, or you could prearrange stuff - it is possible at least to be able to be too early for the window, if you see what I mean, and still be able to take advantage of it. The numerous leagues which are scored or RP'ed a bit later and not straight away however will simply miss out.

EDIT - Also, I once again think the optimum time if we only do one window is the weekend after this one, so about a week after UICA wraps up - I don't think that a one week gap is unreasonable at all. Whether or not it should be longer than that (which Apox is against and I might be) is another matter.

[Nephara]

Fair points. In that event, a week later is probably the right compromise - that's still time that can be spent writing previews for weak relegation battlers that likely aren't exactly going to be active in buying internationals - but later than that just won't leave enough time, I stand by that.

Do we have sufficient consensus to start it on the 13th/14th, then?

[Stvoto Latoli]

Fair points. In that event, a week later is probably the right compromise - that's still time that can be spent writing previews for weak relegation battlers that likely aren't exactly going to be active in buying internationals - but later than that just won't leave enough time, I stand by that.

My relegation battlers are always trying to be active in transfers - but then maybe I've taken a few too many pages out of the QPR playbook.

[Darmen]

It might be interesting to run a survey of those with domestic leagues, along the likes of: 1) how much time do various users spend on their domestic leagues, 2) what is their favorite part of running their domestic league, 3) do they feel UICA competitions take place too often/just right/too seldomly, 4) How many other leagues do others follow, and how far in-depth do they follow them.

1. Depends on how much I procrastinate and how much time I have on my hands. If I work hard from start to finish, I could probably get my league done in a week, maybe week and a half. With the cups and other postseason competitions, that time frame goes up to around two to two and a half weeks. Currently, I run one of my seasons over three cycles (this last time however I simply reentered my same teams from last time, since I'm migrating to a new ranking system and its taking longer than I expected (okay so I'm just really lazy)). So I guess the real answer for me is that it varies greatly.

2. The lower league promotion and relegation battles. Although this may change with my new ranking system, which will hopefully make for a more competitive Premier League and Championship. The Cups are also fun, especially when I see one of my Premier League sides fall to a team from the fourth division or lower.

3. I think the current rate is just fine.

4. I don't necessarily follow leagues as much as I do teams: SK Franz Josef City (PIS), Kiano Locals (TUR), Therakham (SVL), Edmonton United (VLD) as well as other clubs from the Westlands , Bob's Towing (LGL), Crash Bandicoot (CPV) and Arsenrall (MAN). I prefer leagues however that are scorinated one matchday at a time (Stvoto Latoli), or that list matchday by matchday results (Polar Islandstates and Valladares), or that offer detailed revies of the season (V-League).

[Dainer]

Crash Bandicoot (CPV)

What?
If only they were actually winning shit these days.

[Affiliated South Califan Sprawls]

It might be interesting to run a survey of those with domestic leagues, along the likes of: 1) how much time do various users spend on their domestic leagues, 2) what is their favorite part of running their domestic league, 3) do they feel UICA competitions take place too often/just right/too seldomly, 4) How many other leagues do others follow, and how far in-depth do they follow them.

1. Hard to say off the top of my head, but probably several hours over about 8-12 days? I'll have to pay more attention. 2. Tracking the qualification race. 3. No opinion except applause for CH: 4. A small handful. I barely pay any attention to them. I read a couple of interesting-looking RPs and loosely follow the rise and fall of teams that are either famous or interesting to me for some reason.

[Valanora]

It might be interesting to run a survey of those with domestic leagues, along the likes of: 1) how much time do various users spend on their domestic leagues, 2) what is their favorite part of running their domestic league, 3) do they feel UICA competitions take place too often/just right/too seldomly, 4) How many other leagues do others follow, and how far in-depth do they follow them.

1) If I am just doing a short summary or RP and not something more detailed, the actual process of changing rosters, updating ranks, scorinating, and posting takes between one and two hours.
2) The random results or teams that unexpectedly do well (ex. Ibini becoming a power in Vanorian football)
3) I feel like the last few have perhaps been too seldomly, but on the whole, they happen at a nice consistent base of two per WC, so it is perfect for me.
4) I try to follow leagues that my players play in and usually read the previews and the final table, while taking in seasonal RP when I can.

[Nephara]

1. A long fucking time. Maybe 24-30 hours between the 1.5 leagues I run.
2. The amount it fleshes out the world. The fact that it's just kind of a sandbox.
3. As long as it's keeping pace with 2-per-WC, it's doing fine. Seems to have caught up after a couple late cycles, so it's fine.
4. The higher-detail ones. LigAnaia, Buyan, Apox, PIS (when active) and such, though I'll at least skim most of the significant others.

[Dainer]

1) A few hours at most.
2) Tallying the best players and top scorers.
3) No opinion.
4) I follow leagues that interact with mine or that have players of my nations.

[Buyan]

1 - Too much. With what I've got in mind for next season, I hope it goes down to an hour or twenty-five because I never completely make the finishing line.
2 - Picking up old storylines, having as many intertwined as there are players, as in RL.
3 - I think that the current pace is as it should be. Just for the fact that CH manages to keep that up, we should all throw in a few bucks for a mighty present.
4 - Those with some of my players in, top of mind I'ld say Nephara, Apox, Felix, SJG, EQS, Sieg, ... And of course I keep track of teams my teams play against. Maybe a bit too much, in hindsight.

On a related note, I'll be rather inactive this transfer period. Due to the reasons described in the IDSN thread, my league kind of 'reboots' last season, with the clausule that most contracts are expanded for a season. If you have a question upon that (one of your players you'ld like to switch), TG me. Nonetheless, I won't mind if you try to sell me a player, always room for one more. And if you really want to buy player X or Y from my competition, TGs welcome.

[Eastfield Lodge]

It might be interesting to run a survey of those with domestic leagues, along the likes of: 1) how much time do various users spend on their domestic leagues, 2) what is their favorite part of running their domestic league, 3) do they feel UICA competitions take place too often/just right/too seldomly, 4) How many other leagues do others follow, and how far in-depth do they follow them.

1) As much as I have time for. Which at the moment is barely any time.
2) The upsets I'd say. The way my team rankings have been set up for the leagues, there were only 15 points separating 4th and 14th in my top division (16 teams). Also, the cup is brilliant (straight knockout, everybody starting from the first round), just a great mix of upsets and demolitions.
3) I'd say just about right. If I ever had time to RP my leagues properly, then that sentiment may change.
4) I'd say Osarius's is the only one I've ever followed in detail, purely due to my former NT manager being Firewood City's manager for a while. I'd read any of the top leagues if they happen to be on the page, but that's about it.

[95X]

LOL in lolsauce, the "survey" was merely myself thinking aloud!

For the record:
1. Not sure, probably a few hours total. Generating rosters made me spend more time this season, and I have the remainder, just not in postable format yet.
2. Simming the league. As in, running xkoranate.
3. About right. I had no intention of breaking the syncronicity with the NSWC.
4. I'll glance at other leagues as they're posted. Usually if someone on IRC posts a link to their latest while I'm also on, I'm most likely to look.

But pushing it back a week gives people a week less time to start their RPs. I'd say to wait until the deadline. If it's very close, like it was for this season, it's likely people are going to need all the time they can get. Pushing one or two domestic leagues into three weeks in any detail is going to be impossible to deal with.

TBH, I didn't realize your league was so-finely RPd until I took a look at your thread! And a 46-game season is much longer than the ones I run. So I completely understand what your concern was/is.

One other important thing this weekend, it's one of my favorites: Daylight Savings Time begins over most of North America! So expect panic and pandemonium as people adjust to the difference. At least I enjoy it.

[Osarius]

Interesting discussion...

These days I don't spend as much time on my domestic leagues, because LigAnaia (though I do try to contribute where I can). I mostly use my league as a vehicle to drive some of my programming tests now (like the auction system, for example; which I specifically designed knowing I probably wouldn't have time to do the transfer window stuff in future) or to fiddle with stats (which I'm still working on generating reasonably accurately). I dunno, I guess it's just easier to commit time to a project if it's something you're really interested in. Like this.

For me, that's the real fun of running a domestic league. The building. It's awesome. I get to watch things happen and build a world within a world within a game within a game. I get to construct the narrative. If something goes a way I don't like, I can alter it. If I'm stuck for ideas, I can just let the world develop itself by running a season's worth of results and tracking back to construct the story of the title race (or non-race, in some cases).

I think this is part of the reason I have favourite teams within my own league (not exactly hard to figure out either), they're more the interesting ones. Same goes for other leagues. Certain nations have quite a few of my players, or RP them pretty well so it's really fun watching their fortunes fluctuate, and reading/writing narratives based on them. With my time limited compared to before, though, I sort of prefer following the various players I have in other leagues over running my own. It's a little sad, because I have a lot of ideas I don't really get a chance to develop properly. But you know... adulthood, full time job, social life etc etc

With all that in mind, I quite like the current balance we have. Two UICA seasons per World Cup fits nicely in with my chosen timescales, and doesn't give me too much to read/write between my other commitments, but still gives plenty of scope to develop more stuff if I have more free time.

...as you were.