The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, version III)

[Vilita]

Dramatic. Welcome back?

[NSWC Signups]

Voting on two items.

[West Angola]

On a lighter note, I would like to complain about the current tournament results over the last few matchdays:

Spain 1 - 2 Slovakia
Poland 2 - 0 Germany
Iceland 2 - 0 Netherlands
Greece 0 - 2 Northern Ireland
Germany 1 - 1 Ireland
Russia 1 - 1 Moldova

I also see that Wales are currently topping their group while the current World Champions are in fourth in another group.

While I appreciate that Margaret is an unpredictable whore, surely these results indicate that random is being given too much emphasis in the present tournament over rank and roleplay (I particularly like Gibraltar's current RP theme, where he claims to be playing on a precipitous rock where every team has to play on a cramped artificial turf pitch; wacky!).

I would therefore like to ask that the hosts take a look at their scorinator to see if they need to re-balance these factors.

Northern Ireland's RP lines are always compelling, and Germany has been largely inactive this cycle, (probably rank-coasting) so I don't see much amiss.

[Greater Watford]

Also, getting a game to be abandoned by flying a flag attatched to a drone into your opponents ground? Surely that's unrealistic

[Nephara]

Well what do you expect from these nations with godmodding 'other events' turned on? Blatantly unrealistic in my view, breaks the suspension of disbelief for all the rest of us.

[San Jose Guayabal]

On a lighter note, I would like to complain about the current tournament results over the last few matchdays:

Spain 1 - 2 Slovakia
Poland 2 - 0 Germany
Iceland 2 - 0 Netherlands
Greece 0 - 2 Northern Ireland
Germany 1 - 1 Ireland
Russia 1 - 1 Moldova

I also see that Wales are currently topping their group while the current World Champions are in fourth in another group.

While I appreciate that Margaret is an unpredictable whore, surely these results indicate that random is being given too much emphasis in the present tournament over rank and roleplay (I particularly like Gibraltar's current RP theme, where he claims to be playing on a precipitous rock where every team has to play on a cramped artificial turf pitch; wacky!).

I would therefore like to ask that the hosts take a look at their scorinator to see if they need to re-balance these factors.

Northern Ireland's RP lines are always compelling, and Germany has been largely inactive this cycle, (probably rank-coasting) so I don't see much amiss.

What about Sweden's RP bonus? Simply mediocre and also the scorinator could have a wrong style mod of Sweden's NT, but otherwise what a mediocre qualifying start!!!

[The Dortios]

Rekt Skeletons

[Semarland]

Rekt Skeletons

If you say so.

[Red Blackiland]

One Iceland RP post buy a World Cup Trophy

[Jeckland]

Hello! I have an amendment for you to consider. Please let me know if I'm doing this wrong, I don't think there's even been one of these in my time on here

1.2 The Executive World Cup Committee

1.2.1 Entry
Users of nations which have hosted a World Cup to its completion, or been elected as WCC President or Vice President are admitted permanently to the EWCC. However, that user may only exercise their privileges as an EWCC member as long as one of their nations has participated in the most recent World Cup.

Amendment is bolded.

The reasoning behind this is fairly simple. A user who has been voted into either of these positions is going to be a well respected member of the WCC, but may not be on the EWCC. The fact that they have been given such a high position is reason enough for them to be on the EWCC. Although I confess it is not awfully likely that this will make a difference, it could well do (as NSI, who isn't on the EWCC, showed by almost getting VP in the most recent election)

[Semarland]

Hello! I have an amendment for you to consider. Please let me know if I'm doing this wrong, I don't think there's even been one of these in my time on here

1.2 The Executive World Cup Committee

1.2.1 Entry
Users of nations which have hosted a World Cup to its completion, or been elected as WCC President or Vice President are admitted permanently to the EWCC. However, that user may only exercise their privileges as an EWCC member as long as one of their nations has participated in the most recent World Cup.

Amendment is bolded.

The reasoning behind this is fairly simple. A user who has been voted into either of these positions is going to be a well respected member of the WCC, but may not be on the EWCC. The fact that they have been given such a high position is reason enough for them to be on the EWCC. Although I confess it is not awfully likely that this will make a difference, it could well do (as NSI, who isn't on the EWCC, showed by almost getting VP in the most recent election)

Fully supporting this. Nice idea Jeck

[San Jose Guayabal]

Supporting Jeckland's motion, considering that despite just being in WCC and not having hosted a WC, NSI was capable to be until the last moment in contention for the VP spot, the good image and work from him did that for him. It'd sound like something meritocratic but as I said, his contribution to the community has been massive, and we should give this chance to any member who did or will do something like NSI did, a new chance of representation in the EWCC will be good.

[United Eastedge]

Is this possible?

2.3 The World Cup
The World Cup is the second, and most important, event in the World Cup Cycle. It will always consist of 32 teams (including the co-hosts), who have been whittled down by the Qualifying Process to turn scores of hopeful countries into thirty relieved ones and countless disappointed ones. It is the longest running sports competition on Nationstates, dating back to early 2003 when internet piracy barely existed, and Max Barry was still trying to simply promote a book.

2.3.2 Hosting
i) Any nation that has previously participated in a World Cup, and participated in its most recently completed edition, may bid to host the World Cup, except if the user has co-hosted the previous World Cup.
ii) Two-host bids are the preferred format, though any number of hosts are acceptable.
iii) The WCC will be directed by the President to vote: a) for one of the offered bids, b) to officially abstain, or c) to re-open the process for new bids.
iv) Friendlies are not the responsibility of the hosts beyond basic organisation. Co-hosts may not include as part of their proposal any information on the organisation of friendlies, nor may they answer questions on friendly organisation. Co-hosts may choose to start a thread for friendly organisation, may choose to schedule slots in World Cup qualification for friendlies, and may limit the number of friendlies; but there is no presumption that co-hosts will scorinate any friendly matches, and nations holding friendlies should assume that they are responsible for arranging their own friendly scorination unless otherwise specified.

[Jeckland]

Without going into the reasons that clause is there in the first place, to be honest even in the highly unlikely event that your amendment (which you cannot officially propose, as you are not yet a WCC member) comes to fruition, I doubt there will be anyone out there willing to host an entire World Cup on their own.

[Super-Llamaland]

This amendment is basically saying "we disapprove of four-host bids, sort of" since nobody in their right mind would solo host a world cup with a three-digit number of participants.

[Osarius]

Pretty sure the logic behind "at least two" hosts is that the show can still go on if something (like RL) befalls one of the hosts.

[Legalese]

Pretty sure the logic behind "at least two" hosts is that the show can still go on if something (like RL) befalls one of the hosts.

World Cup 22 is an example of this - what was a standard situation became a three-host affair when one of the hosts dropped out, and was replaced jointly by the co-hosts of the competing bid - this being myself and Vilita joining Liverpool England (aka. Adihan, Liventia, etc.) with Vil and I splitting the co-hosting duties.

As for the wording put out by UE, the only thing it actually changes is to allow for single host bids. While there could be a day where that, in theory, would make sense, there would be so many other issues that would have to befall the World Cup for there to be a scenario where I could even imagine a solo host being capable of handling the duties on their own being a good idea. It's a solution seeking a problem, and doesn't really make much sense to modify.

As for Jeckland's proposal, it's worth noting that in the early days of the WCC (as in, the version that was - like the current EWCC - nothing but former hosts) did have a time where the President was not a member, so membership in the EWCC is hardly a prerequisite for Pres/VP duties. Considering that the EWCC has only two powers - the ability to step in if a WCC event goes so far off the rails that it needs to be saved (which has happened only once, that I can recall - and not the one described above), as well as the ability to pick the BoF hosts - it's more ceremonial than anything.

That said, hosting a World Cup is not exactly an easy thing to do, and it is debatable if serving as the WCC President for three cycles is worth earning a permanent slot in the EWCC or the WCC. I would say, speaking as a two-time former VP, that the Vice President role is certainly not one that merits a place in the EWCC by being slotted in that spot alone. In either case, I don't feel that the WCC should be conferring EWCC membership without a majority level of support amongst current EWCC members, but that's another ball of wax.

[Nephara]

Pretty sure the logic behind "at least two" hosts is that the show can still go on if something (like RL) befalls one of the hosts.

Considering that the EWCC has only two powers - the ability to step in if a WCC event goes so far off the rails that it needs to be saved (which has happened only once, that I can recall - and not the one described above)

If the minor derail is alright, what was the incident? Was it Spaamgate?

[Legalese]

Considering that the EWCC has only two powers - the ability to step in if a WCC event goes so far off the rails that it needs to be saved (which has happened only once, that I can recall - and not the one described above)

If the minor derail is alright, what was the incident? Was it Spaamgate?

Nope, this was a case where the actual hosts went AWOL. CoH XIII, I want to say.

[Starblaydia]

I would say, speaking as a two-time former VP, that the Vice President role is certainly not one that merits a place in the EWCC by being slotted in that spot alone.

Fully agreed, and thereby not approving of Jackland's proposal. Based on some previous numbers, it could only take four or five WCC users working together to get someone into that VP spot, and therefore potentially on the EWCC in this proposal, by both nominating them in sufficient numbers and then voting for them in the actual election.

They're two distinct skillsets: Being El Prez is about being level-headed, reliable and responsible during WCDT and IRC channel debates. The EWCC members are those who are supposed to know how to (and how not to) run a BoF, WC and CoH.

Not that those skills can't be found in the same person, of course.

[Bandwagon]

I was going to wait until tomorrow to announce this, but now that I've rank-coasted to a repeat IBC title, I've decided that I might as well get this announcement out of the way now:

I've decided to announce my impending retirement from NS Sports. Although both Saintland and Free Republics/Holy Republican Empire have both already played their final soccer matches, I will stick around long enough to finish out the current season of NSCF, ensure that the next Maple Leaf Bowl begins and update the IBC, WCoH and HWC rankings to reflect the results of the current cycle. After that, I will no longer be involved in NS Sports in any capacity, for the foreseeable future. However, I will probably stick around NS, in a different capacity.

There are a number of reasons behind this decision, which is one that I came very close to making on several other occasions during the past year or so. Between my own RP burnout and a number of changes in the atmosphere and culture around here that have been, at least in my opinion, for the worse, I've decided that it is time to move on rather than continue on in my current state. The current situation with the WC bid (and the total lack of interest in opposing it) has merely helped to bring me to a realization that I probably should have come to around 6 months ago and that I would have eventually reached the same conclusion regardless. Since that bid was posted, what little desire I still had to RP has completely disappeared and I don't expect it to return anytime soon, so given the circumstances, it is clearly time for a change on my part. To the extent that I RP at all over the next month or so before all of my nations leave NS Sports, I will only be RPing to provide an IC rationale for the absence of my nations from future tournaments. Therefore, I ask that the impending departure of my nations from NS Sports not be acknowledged ICly until they announce it ICly.

The Maple Leaf Bowl and Confederations Cup (along with any other tournaments and/or events I may have created, but forgotten about at this moment) may be continued by anyone who wishes to continue them. I grant full permission for those to be continued, if somebody wishes to continue them.

It' a sad day for NS Sports.
Hopefully we'll be alright without Saintland or this could be the start of a slow death for NS Sports.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

I was going to wait until tomorrow to announce this, but now that I've rank-coasted to a repeat IBC title, I've decided that I might as well get this announcement out of the way now:

I've decided to announce my impending retirement from NS Sports. Although both Saintland and Free Republics/Holy Republican Empire have both already played their final soccer matches, I will stick around long enough to finish out the current season of NSCF, ensure that the next Maple Leaf Bowl begins and update the IBC, WCoH and HWC rankings to reflect the results of the current cycle. After that, I will no longer be involved in NS Sports in any capacity, for the foreseeable future. However, I will probably stick around NS, in a different capacity.

There are a number of reasons behind this decision, which is one that I came very close to making on several other occasions during the past year or so. Between my own RP burnout and a number of changes in the atmosphere and culture around here that have been, at least in my opinion, for the worse, I've decided that it is time to move on rather than continue on in my current state. The current situation with the WC bid (and the total lack of interest in opposing it) has merely helped to bring me to a realization that I probably should have come to around 6 months ago and that I would have eventually reached the same conclusion regardless. Since that bid was posted, what little desire I still had to RP has completely disappeared and I don't expect it to return anytime soon, so given the circumstances, it is clearly time for a change on my part. To the extent that I RP at all over the next month or so before all of my nations leave NS Sports, I will only be RPing to provide an IC rationale for the absence of my nations from future tournaments. Therefore, I ask that the impending departure of my nations from NS Sports not be acknowledged ICly until they announce it ICly.

The Maple Leaf Bowl and Confederations Cup (along with any other tournaments and/or events I may have created, but forgotten about at this moment) may be continued by anyone who wishes to continue them. I grant full permission for those to be continued, if somebody wishes to continue them.

It' a sad day for NS Sports.
Hopefully we'll be alright without Saintland or this could be the start of a slow death for NS Sports.

You missed him unquitting. Though in fairness, he did withdraw from the World Cup.

[Polar Islandstates]

Just the current president's opinion on those two proposals...

a) I am thoroughly against the idea of any amendment that makes it possible for a solo WC host bid.

b) with respect to Zwang, Legal, and Apox, I don't think anything I've asked from any of them equates even slightly to the level of work required to be a WC co-host, and I like the idea of the EWCC remaining a ceremonial thing.

[New North Aqmuland]

"Childhood: Officially endorsed and wholly recommended by NS Sports"
I'll inform Ban Ki-moon, he can add it to the posters or something.

I can get behind that.

Also, it' so cool to see that I'm not the only one who did(does) that sort of thing, with the maps and the kits and the leagues.

[Yttribia]

It' a sad day for NS Sports.
Hopefully we'll be alright without Saintland or this could be the start of a slow death for NS Sports.

You're joking about the fact that NS Sports is going to die with Saintland "leaving" (better yet abstaining from WCQ competition) correct?