World Baseball Classic Discussion Thread

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Wow, I went from unranked to fifth/tied for fourth.

As I posted earlier in the wrong thread, you're not tied for fourth. Milchama is at 2.90985, and you're at 2.90909. But since most hosts only use two decimals of ranking, close enough.

[Schiltzberg]

Ah, okay. I did not look that far into it, but still good!

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Ah, okay. I did not look that far into it, but still good!

In cases where two nations really are tied, the rank formula should list them both with the same rank.

[Super-Llamaland]

As detailed before, I am now resigning as WBC President and having Nova Anglicana take things over. Thanks for everything, guys.

What's nine plus ten?

My rank

[Nova Anglicana]

Based on this post, Cosumar and Southern Democratic States are eligible for election to the WBC Council.

Telegrams will be sent out to current council members. Please vote YES, NO, or ABSTAIN to the issue of their council membership. Voting will remain open for 96 hours, closing at approximately 2100 EST (UTC-4) on June 4, 2015. Please TG all votes to Gotalanda (my puppet). Votes that are sent to other accounts will not be counted.

Reposting Llama's Constitution draft here for further discussion:

Article I: Council Eligibility

Section 1. To be an eligible member of the WBC Council (hereafter referred to as the WBCC), a nation must have fullfilled one of the following criteria:
a.) posted a roster and at least one roleplay in the previous two Classics
b.) either hosted or co-hosted a WBC.

Section 2. To maintain membership in the WBCC, a nation must fulfill both of the following criteria:
a.) Posting a roster every Classic.
b.) Participating in host voting every Classic.

Section 3: Users who are bidding to host the World Baseball Classic may not vote on the host. These users will not be subject to removal from the Council under Article I, Section 2b.

Section 4. If a Member of the Council fails to maintain its membership criteria for consecutive Classics (by failure to fulfill either criteria) they will be removed from the Council for a minimum of one Classic and until both criteria are again met during the same WBC tournament. However, this may be appealed and put to a vote, with two-thirds majority reinstating said member to the Council.

Article II: Responsibilities of the Council

Section 1: The Council, and only the Council, will vote for the next Host or Hosts of the Classic and will choose from available bids.

Section 2: The Council will be the determining body for repealing or amending the Constitution. A two-thirds majority of the full WBCC membership (rounded down if necessary) shall be necessary to ratify a proposed constitutional amendment.

Section 3: Any member of the Council can withdraw from the Council, but will be subject to the above eligibility guidelines if they seek reinstatement.

Section 4: The Council is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the Classic. The Council will be held to any subsequent rights and/or responsibilities that are created henceforth into the WBC Constitution.

Section 5: Any member of the WBCC may move to submit a rule change, constitutional amendment, or other WBC related proposal. A vote on the submission will be held if one other WBCC member "seconds" the motion. Upon motion and seconding The WBCC president shall ensure that the vote is held in a timely manner.

Article III: Voting Procedures

Section 1: For a Council vote to be considered valid, a motion must have a simple majority of votes cast provided that a quorum of Council members votes in favour of or against the motion at vote. Any measure that receives the votes of one more than half the active Council membership will be automatically approved.

Section 2: For the purposes of this amendment, a "quorum" shall be defined as half the current voting membership of the Council, rounded down.

Section 3: Any Council vote that does not reach quorum will be considered invalid and re-voted upon.

Section 4: The President may veto any Council vote that does not reach a two-thirds majority, and the vote will be considered invalid.

Article IV: Impeachment Procedures

Section 1: In order to initiate impeachment and/or removal from office proceedings against a current member of the World Baseball Classic Council, another member in good standing must motion for impeachment. If a different member seconds the motion, the member is considered impeached.

Section 2: In the event that a Council member is impeached, the full Council will have one week to discuss whether or not to remove the impeached member. During that period, the impeached member is still considered a full voting member of the Council on any items other than those involving the impeachment proceedings.

Section 3: The council president will initiate the removal vote, which shall only take place in the event two thirds of votes cast are in favour of removal from office. If the president is the one being impeached, the vice-president will serve the same role as the president for the purposes of this section.

Section 4: In the event that two-third of votes cast are in favour of removal from office, the Council member shall be removed from the Council with immediate effect for a period of two World Baseball Classics. At the end of the two-Classic period, the member must petition to rejoin the Council and initiate a plan to address any concerns outlined in the impeachment proceedings in order to be reinstated to the Council.

Section 5: Any Council member removed due to impeachment proceedings must be nominated to rejoin the Council and must be formally seconded. If that occurs, the Council may vote on readmission when votes for new Council members are being taken. If a simple majority of votes cast are in favour of readmission, the impeached member shall rejoin the Council with immediate effect.

Article V: The President of the Council

Section 1: The Council will be headed by a president who will be elected by the members of the council, using the same election procedures as outlined in Article III.

Section 2: The president will be elected after every other World Baseball Classic, and will serve terms of two Classics. It is possible to serve multiple terms, however a president may not serve three consecutive terms.

Section 3: The president's duties are the following: opening the sign-up thread; opening and collecting host voting; opening and collecting constitutional proposal voting; keeping the council list updated; opening and collecting council member election voting; and making any other decisions which are not fit to be decided by the council as a whole.

Section 4: The president must appoint a vice-president to serve in his/her absence. If the president goes missing for an extended period of time, takes a break from NS, or ceases to exist, the vice-president has the right to step up and serve as the president pro tempore.

Section 5: The president may be impeached under the procedures of Article III. If the president is impeached and removed from the council, the vice-president becomes the new president and may appoint a new vice-president to take their place.

Article VI: Tournament Sportsmanship

Section 1: No team may voluntarily forfeit games or entire series after a World Baseball Classic has started.

Section 2: Only nations that have ceased to exist during the playoffs of the World Baseball Classic before being eliminated are deemed as forfeiting.

Section 3: Nations that cease to exist during a group stage or equivalent of the World Baseball Classic shall be prohibited from advancing beyond that stage, but must play out the remainder of their schedule in that stage. Nations that are subsequently re-founded prior to the end of the stage may advance beyond that stage.

Section 4: Forfeited games due to CTE by a nation are automatic victories for the opposing team and should be scorinated as such.

Section 5: The score of a forfeit is 9-0.

Article VII: Tournament Rankings

--insert blurb on rankings here when we decide what we're doing with them--

Article VIII: Miscellaneous Procedures

Section 1: When creating the signup thread, the thread creator is to provide (at minimum) a link to the winning bid of the last World Baseball Classic and set a definitive deadline for when host bids must be received by.

Also posting Saintland's modification of NSFS formula for xkoranate baseball scorinator in case anyone else wants to try it out:

So, based on CH's post, I've gone in and played around with the variables for the NSFS baseball and I think a .08 or .09 (as opposed to the default of .05) is probably ideal for the coeffs. That cuts the likelihood of a team with a rank+bonus of 0 defeating the team at max points to around 20%, which I think would probably cut the likelihood of such teams making it to the playoff rounds.

I'm surprised that it actually works the way I had proposed and had been under the impression that it was a modified version of the NSFS soccer scorinator, so I'm a little surprised (and embarrassed) that I had inadvertently reinvented the wheel without knowing that I had done so.

Here's the modified scorinator file:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<sport version="0.3">
   <name>Baseball—Adjusted NSFS3 formula</name>
   <discipline>Baseball</discipline>
   <event>Adjusted NSFS3 formula</event>
   <scorinator /> <!-- only one scorinator is needed for this event -->
   
   <paradigm>nsfs-baseball</paradigm>
   <paradigmOptions>
      <string type="resultStyle">periods</string>
      <int type="resultWidth">1</int>
      <double type="baseScoringProb">0.2815</double>
      <double type="baseScoringCoeff">0.09</double>
      <double type="extraScoringProb">0.4095</double>
      <double type="extraScoringCoeff">0.09</double>
      <list type="tiebreakers">
         <string>extratime</string>
      </list>
      <list type="tiebreakerNames">
         <string></string>
      </list>
      <int type="forceTieBreak">1</int>
      <int type="quietTieBreak">1</int>
      <int type="periods">9</int>
      <string type="tableHeaderGoalsFor">RF</string>
      <string type="tableHeaderGoalsAgainst">RA</string>
      <string type="tableHeaderGoalDifference">RD</string>
   </paradigmOptions>
</sport>

And, to illustrate what it looks like over a full season, here's the 1st Acedonian domestic baseball season (Actual Results) re-scorinated with the exact same ranks I used to scorinate that season nearly 2 years ago:

Example Season w/ Adjusted NSFS
                         Pld     W    L     RF    RA    RD 
1 Falcons                154   103   51    803   541  +262
2 Knights                154    94   60    752   634  +118
3 Bees                   154    86   68    731   621  +110
4 Bulls                  154    80   74    690   635   +55
5 Green Sox              154    71   83    603   735  −132
6 Storks                 154    70   84    682   675    +7
7 Tigers                 154    57   97    611   837  −226
8 Raptors                154    55   99    562   756  −194

[Super-Llamaland]

I will retain my council membership until I lose it for not participating.

Could somebody run some tests on the Saintland file?

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Nova now needs to select a VP for the remainder of the term, I believe.

[Nova Anglicana]

Nova now needs to select a VP for the remainder of the term, I believe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term lasts until the next WBC is over?

In any case, I am appointing Gregoryisgodistan, being the other most active member of the Council, as Vice President.

Congratulations and serve the community well.

[Frenline Delpha]

Nova now needs to select a VP for the remainder of the term, I believe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term lasts until the next WBC is over?

In any case, I am appointing Gregoryisgodistan, being the other most active member of the Council, as Vice President.

Congratulations and serve the community well.

Good Job, Gregoryisgodistan. You earned it.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Nova now needs to select a VP for the remainder of the term, I believe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term lasts until the next WBC is over?

In any case, I am appointing Gregoryisgodistan, being the other most active member of the Council, as Vice President.

Congratulations and serve the community well.

Thank you, I'm honored. And yes, that's correct. The term expires at the end of WBC 34, though the constitution is unclear as to whether you can run for re-election. It says you can't serve two consecutive terms, but it doesn't say if that means full terms or not.

[Gotalanda]

On the matter of Cosumar and Southern Democratic States joining the WBC Council, here are the votes:

Cosumar: 7 YES, 0 NO, 0 ABSTAIN
Southern Democratic States: 5 YES, 0 NO, 2 ABSTAIN

Therefore, both nations are duly admitted to the World Baseball Classic Council and enjoy all rights and responsibilities of the position. Congratulations and serve the community well.

[Schiltzberg]

Hey, I am not sure when WBC 34 will start, but I think that it will be when I am on vacation, so can I sign up in advance so that I do not miss sign ups, or do I have to miss it?

[Frenline Delpha]

Hey, I am not sure when WBC 34 will start, but I think that it will be when I am on vacation, so can I sign up in advance so that I do not miss sign ups, or do I have to miss it?

Depends. Will you be able to RP the tournament?

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Hey, I am not sure when WBC 34 will start, but I think that it will be when I am on vacation, so can I sign up in advance so that I do not miss sign ups, or do I have to miss it?

Depends. Will you be able to RP the tournament?

You can sign up once the signup thread opens. Even if you're not sure you'll be able to RP in the tournament, you can do that. But you have to wait until the signup thread opens.

Even if you can only get on for two seconds, on a smartphone or in your hotel's business center, to post in the signup thread, that's fine. I don't know when Nova plans to open next signups, but in the past it's been about 90 days after the previous tournament ended, so late August or early September. It will probably stay open for at least a couple weeks - this tournament took so long because RON won the first host vote, but don't expect that to happen again. I've seen it maybe three times in two years on this forum (and I was on the losing end of one of those.)

[Southern Democratic States]

I've just realised that I'm on the WBC council so thanks for admitting me on it!

[Schiltzberg]

Depends. Will you be able to RP the tournament?

You can sign up once the signup thread opens. Even if you're not sure you'll be able to RP in the tournament, you can do that. But you have to wait until the signup thread opens.

Even if you can only get on for two seconds, on a smartphone or in your hotel's business center, to post in the signup thread, that's fine. I don't know when Nova plans to open next signups, but in the past it's been about 90 days after the previous tournament ended, so late August or early September. It will probably stay open for at least a couple weeks - this tournament took so long because RON won the first host vote, but don't expect that to happen again. I've seen it maybe three times in two years on this forum (and I was on the losing end of one of those.)

Okay, I will be back by then. Thanks!

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Does the WBC Constitution rule prohibiting Presidents from serving two consecutive terms also apply to partial terms, or is Nova Anglicana eligible for a full term after WBC 34? My understanding is that "terms" means full terms, so Nova is eligible, but this isn't fully clear. This is something we should consider in the new Constitution when discussing term limits. The proposed draft currently says "no President may serve three consecutive terms" but that doesn't solve the problem. I'd propose changing it to "no President may be elected to three consecutive terms" meaning someone who was VP and became President could be elected twice more. We could also go the route of the 22nd Amendment and say it depends on how long the partial term was, but with terms being dependent on the WBC cycle rather than the calendar, that gets tough.

[Maklohi Vai]

Does the WBC Constitution rule prohibiting Presidents from serving two consecutive terms also apply to partial terms, or is Nova Anglicana eligible for a full term after WBC 34? My understanding is that "terms" means full terms, so Nova is eligible, but this isn't fully clear. This is something we should consider in the new Constitution when discussing term limits. The proposed draft currently says "no President may serve three consecutive terms" but that doesn't solve the problem. I'd propose changing it to "no President may be elected to three consecutive terms" meaning someone who was VP and became President could be elected twice more. We could also go the route of the 22nd Amendment and say it depends on how long the partial term was, but with terms being dependent on the WBC cycle rather than the calendar, that gets tough.

I agree with your proposed change.

[Super-Llamaland]

Article I: Council Eligibility

Section 1. To be an eligible member of the WBC Council (hereafter referred to as the WBCC), a nation must have posted a roster and at least one roleplay in the previous two Classics.

Section 2. To maintain membership in the WBCC, a nation must fulfill both of the following criteria:
a.) Posting a roster every Classic.
b.) Participating in host voting every Classic.

Section 3: Users who are bidding to host the World Baseball Classic may not vote on the host. These users will not be subject to removal from the Council under Article I, Section 2b.

Section 4. If a Member of the Council fails to maintain its membership by failure to fulfill either criteria, they will be removed from the Council for a minimum of one Classic and until both criteria are again met during the same WBC tournament. However, this may be appealed and put to a vote, with two-thirds majority reinstating said member to the Council.

Article II: Responsibilities of the Council

Section 1: The Council, and only the Council, will vote for the next Host or Hosts of the Classic and will choose from available bids.

Section 2: The Council will be the determining body for repealing or amending the Constitution. A two-thirds (rounded up if necessary) majority will be needed to amend or repeal any part of the WBC Constitution.

Section 3: Any member of the Council can withdraw from the Council, but will be subject to the above eligibility guidelines if they seek reinstatement.

Section 4: The Council is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the Classic. The Council will be held to any subsequent rights and/or responsibilities that are created henceforth into the WBC Constitution.

Article III: Impeachment Procedures

Section 1: In order to initiate impeachment and/or removal from office proceedings against a current member of the World Baseball Classic Council, another member in good standing must motion for impeachment. If a different member seconds the motion, the member is considered impeached.

Section 2: In the event that a Council member is impeached, the full Council will have one week to discuss whether or not to remove the impeached member. During that period, the impeached member is still considered a full voting member of the Council on any items other than those involving the impeachment proceedings.

Section 3: The council president will initiate the removal vote, which shall only take place in the event two thirds of votes cast are in favour of removal from office. If the president is the one being impeached, the vice-president will serve the same role as the president for the purposes of this section.

Section 4: Should the President be impeached while the Vice Presidency is vacant, or should both the President and Vice President be impeached simultaneously, the initiating officer shall be the first-listed user from the following list who is an active WBCC member, is not being impeached, and did not propose the impeachment. In the event more than one nation fulfills the same requirement, such as in the case of co-hosts, the one who is alphabetically first shall serve this role.
a) The host of the most recent World Baseball Classic
b) The host of the second-most recent World Baseball Classic
c) The host of the third-most recent World Baseball Classic, followed by the host of the fourth-most recent World Baseball Classic and so on.
d) The alphabetically first eligible member of the WBCC

Section 5: In the event that two-third of votes cast are in favour of removal from office, the Council member shall be removed from the Council with immediate effect for a period of two World Baseball Classics. At the end of the two-Classic period, the member must petition to rejoin the Council and initiate a plan to address any concerns outlined in the impeachment proceedings in order to be reinstated to the Council.

Section 6: Any Council member removed due to impeachment proceedings must be nominated to rejoin the Council and must be formally seconded. If that occurs, the Council may vote on readmission when votes for new Council members are being taken. If a simple majority of votes cast are in favour of readmission, the impeached member shall rejoin the Council with immediate effect.

Section 7: In the event the President is impeached and removed from office under Section 4, the initiating officer shall be president pro tempore and immediately call a special election for the remainder of the term under the procedures specified in Articles IV and V.

Article IV: Voting Procedures

Section 1: For a Council vote to be considered valid, a motion must have a simple majority of votes cast provided that a quorum of Council members votes in favour of or against the motion at vote. Any measure that receives the votes of one more than half the active Council membership will be automatically approved.

Section 2: For the purposes of this amendment, a "quorum" shall be defined as half the current voting membership of the Council, rounded down.

Section 3: Any Council vote that does not reach quorum will be considered invalid and re-voted upon.

Section 4: The President may veto any Council vote that does not reach a two-thirds majority, and the vote will be considered invalid.

Article V: The President of the Council

Section 1: The Council will be headed by a president who will be elected by the members of the council, using the same election procedures as outlined in Article IV.

Section 2: The president will be elected after every other World Baseball Classic, and will serve terms of two Classics. It is possible to serve multiple terms.

Section 3: The president's duties are the following: opening the sign-up thread; opening and collecting host voting; opening and collecting constitutional proposal voting; keeping the council list updated; opening and collecting council member election voting; and making any other arbitrary decisions which are not fit to be decided by the council as a whole.

Section 4: The president must appoint a vice-president to serve in his/her absence. If the president goes missing for an extended period of time, takes a break from NS, or ceases to exist, the vice-president has the right to step up and serve as the president pro tempore.

Section 5: The president may be impeached under the procedures of Article III. If the president is impeached and removed from the council, the vice-president becomes the new president and may appoint a new vice-president to take their place.

Article VI: Tournament Sportsmanship

Section 1: No team may voluntarily forfeit games or entire series after a World Baseball Classic has started.

Section 2: Only nations that have ceased to exist during the playoffs of the World Baseball Classic before being eliminated are deemed as forfeiting.

Section 3: Nations that cease to exist during a group stage or equivalent of the World Baseball Classic shall be prohibited from advancing beyond that stage, but must play out the remainder of their schedule in that stage. Nations that are subsequently re-founded prior to the end of the stage may advance beyond that stage.

Section 4: Forfeited games due to CTE by a nation are automatic victories for the opposing team and should be scorinated as such.

Section 5: The score of a forfeit is 9-0.

Article VII: Tournament Rankings


Section 1: For each Classic, divide the number of games a team won by the number of games played by the team playing the most games.

Section 2: A team's ranking is the sum of:
Clause a. Four times their Section 1 quotient for the most recently completed Classic;
Clause b. Twice their Section 1 quotient for the next-most-recent completed Classic; and
Clause c. The unmodified Section 1 quotient for the third-most-recent completed Classic.

Section 3: When calculating the rankings, any games won due to forfeit are still treated as bona fide wins.

Section 4: Hosts must factor in both ranking and RP Bonus when calculating scorination coefficients. Hosts are free to determine how much weight to give to each factor.

Article VIII: Miscellaneous Procedures

Section 1: When creating the signup thread, the thread creator is to provide (at minimum) a link to the winning bid of the last World Baseball Classic and set a definitive deadline for when host bids must be received by.

This will require a 2/3 majority to pass.

le'bumpbumpbump

We should vote on this soon. I added the rank bit into the constitution because I honestly don't see the point of voting on it

Anyone with feedback?

[Maklohi Vai]

I disagree with Article I, Section 2b. Host voting is important, but it should not be considered as important as roster+RP participation, which I believe should be the only factors for maintaining membership.

[Super-Llamaland]

I don't think one vote is too big of a deal, and letting people choose whether or not they want to vote runs of the risk of this happening again

Vote for Taxachusetts' Bid - 2
Re-open Host Votes - 3
Abstain from Voting - 0

[Maklohi Vai]

I don't think one vote is too big of a deal, and letting people choose whether or not they want to vote runs of the risk of this happening again

Vote for Taxachusetts' Bid - 2
Re-open Host Votes - 3
Abstain from Voting - 0

5 voters is bad, yes, but it for the most part ensures that the only people voting are those who are actually engaged with the WBC. If you make it a requirement of council membership, you'll create more uninformed voters AND for those who simply don't have the time (or know they're uniformed and so don't feel comfortable casting a ballot), they'll lose their membership even if they are participating in the Classic itself actively.

[South Yerfilag]

Seeing this forum post, I'd love to participate in the next WBC.
But knowing that, how often do WBC cycles take place? I feel like it's been ages since we did the last one...

[The Central Shadow Nation]

Sadly,I must announce for the next WB classic,the Ridora Fruitbat Mafia will not be participating. However,The Ridora Rhinos are here,with that new rookie..Hm..Oh,yeah,Eli Williams. And they have pretty much the same roster as the Fruitbat Mafia,who are currently a dormant out of business.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

We're also due to elect a new President this cycle (for the term beginning next cycle), and ideally we would conduct nominations concurrently with host voting and elections immediately after so it doesn't get pushed back like everything else.

That being said, first we need to clarify whether Nova Anglicana is eligible as he only served a part of Llama's term. As Vice President, I'm of the opinion that he is, and although Nova is president, I'm not sure he should be making rulings that directly concern him. That being said, if you don't want Nova serving 1 1/3 consecutive terms, don't vote for him or nominate him. I'm going to talk this over with Nova and see what we're going to do.

Edit: Nevermind - precedent is to do so after the WBC is complete. So we wait. But we still need to figure out whether Nova's eligible eventually.