World Baseball Classic Discussion Thread

[Frenline Delpha]

As long as we're on a nostalgia kick, here's a fun fact. The Jolt forums got bought out by OMAC, NationStates parted ways with them, OMAC eventually deleted our forums, and then eventually went under themselves--all that was left was the ghosts of the forums for a different game, Utopia Kingdoms (but there were previously a bunch of different games whose forums were all shared, each a different subforum hosted by Jolt).

You might notice that nowhere in the process did they ever delete our account pages. In fact, in 2008 when Jolt tried to give us "NS2," they made them much snazzier than they'd been in the past!

Here's Zwangzug as it was, with lots of messages from 2008. (You can see a request for a post-qualifying friendly in WC42, conversations from WorldVision 6, avatars that didn't sync with flags, Yafor 2 posting as "The Gupta Dynasty" because some accounts just didn't sync with the Jolt forums for some reason.

Looks like the SuperCell forum I am on. Any chance Jolt runs off of VBulletin?

[Zwangzug]

As long as we're on a nostalgia kick, here's a fun fact. The Jolt forums got bought out by OMAC, NationStates parted ways with them, OMAC eventually deleted our forums, and then eventually went under themselves--all that was left was the ghosts of the forums for a different game, Utopia Kingdoms (but there were previously a bunch of different games whose forums were all shared, each a different subforum hosted by Jolt).

You might notice that nowhere in the process did they ever delete our account pages. In fact, in 2008 when Jolt tried to give us "NS2," they made them much snazzier than they'd been in the past!

Here's Zwangzug as it was, with lots of messages from 2008. (You can see a request for a post-qualifying friendly in WC42, conversations from WorldVision 6, avatars that didn't sync with flags, Yafor 2 posting as "The Gupta Dynasty" because some accounts just didn't sync with the Jolt forums for some reason.

Looks like the SuperCell forum I am on. Any chance Jolt runs off of VBulletin?

Yes, it did.

[Super-Llamaland]

I really like the Hall of Fame idea totally not just because I have 22 points.

I'm not sure how feasible a BBWAA (that votes on potential applicants (probably would require a lower base threshold of like 15 pts) so that really good RPers that just had a string of bad luck could get in) would be, especially since there wouldn't be enough people who have been RPing baseball for long enough. Maybe we could just auto-induct everyone with 20 points now, and then lower it/create a voting organization down the line?

[Super-Llamaland]

I really like the Hall of Fame idea totally not just because I have 22 points.

I'm not sure how feasible a BBWAA (that votes on potential applicants (probably would require a lower base threshold of like 15 pts) so that really good RPers that just had a string of bad luck could get in) would be, especially since there wouldn't be enough people who have been RPing baseball for long enough. Maybe we could just auto-induct everyone with 20 points now, and then lower it/create a voting organization down the line?

[Frenline Delpha]

I really like the Hall of Fame idea totally not just because I have 22 points.

I'm not sure how feasible a BBWAA (that votes on potential applicants (probably would require a lower base threshold of like 15 pts) so that really good RPers that just had a string of bad luck could get in) would be, especially since there wouldn't be enough people who have been RPing baseball for long enough. Maybe we could just auto-induct everyone with 20 points now, and then lower it/create a voting organization down the line?

Ummm...?

[Maklohi Vai]

I really like the Hall of Fame idea totally not just because I have 22 points.

I'm not sure how feasible a BBWAA (that votes on potential applicants (probably would require a lower base threshold of like 15 pts) so that really good RPers that just had a string of bad luck could get in) would be, especially since there wouldn't be enough people who have been RPing baseball for long enough. Maybe we could just auto-induct everyone with 20 points now, and then lower it/create a voting organization down the line?

I like the Hall of Fame idea. I think the requirements should be voted on by the Council. Councillors might double as the voters further down the line, but we may also want longer-tenured members too. That's something to think about.

All of this, of course, awaits Presidential approval. Also, speaking of the President, (paging NA) we may want to do council voting now?

[Saintland]

I really like the Hall of Fame idea totally not just because I have 22 points.

I'm not sure how feasible a BBWAA (that votes on potential applicants (probably would require a lower base threshold of like 15 pts) so that really good RPers that just had a string of bad luck could get in) would be, especially since there wouldn't be enough people who have been RPing baseball for long enough. Maybe we could just auto-induct everyone with 20 points now, and then lower it/create a voting organization down the line?

I like the Hall of Fame idea. I think the requirements should be voted on by the Council. Councillors might double as the voters further down the line, but we may also want longer-tenured members too. That's something to think about.

All of this, of course, awaits Presidential approval. Also, speaking of the President, (paging NA) we may want to do council voting now?

What about automatic induction for those who get to 20 points but a vote for those who have entered 10 WBCs and haven't qualified for the HoF yet? Maybe Hall of Famers should have a vote for the Hall of Fame whether or not they're currently Council members? If we put everybody who entered 10 WBCs but didn't get 20 points up to vote, maybe we'll need a temporary Veterans Committee to judge whether or not former WBC participants should get in? Maybe there should also be some sort of provision for a revote after 15, 20, 25, etc. WBCs for those that lose their HoF vote after 10?

One of the biggest potential issues with voting is that almost everybody who was around during the early days of the WBC isn't active anymore. Among the current cycle, about half first entered the WBC 10-15 cycles ago and the other half first entered sometime during the 30s. This probably won't be as much of a problem going forward because we won't be dealing with decisions on individuals whom we don't remember but it could be a problem early on (which is why a temporary Veterans Committee, if we went that route, would need to be comprised of those willing to dig through old WBC threads and read old RPs moreso than those who were actually around in those days).

[Maklohi Vai]

I like the Hall of Fame idea. I think the requirements should be voted on by the Council. Councillors might double as the voters further down the line, but we may also want longer-tenured members too. That's something to think about.

All of this, of course, awaits Presidential approval. Also, speaking of the President, (paging NA) we may want to do council voting now?

What about automatic induction for those who get to 20 points but a vote for those who have entered 10 WBCs and haven't qualified for the HoF yet?

I think some sort of threshold like this, maybe 10, maybe 15, is a good idea.

Maybe Hall of Famers should have a vote for the Hall of Fame whether or not they're currently Council members? If we put everybody who entered 10 WBCs but didn't get 20 points up to vote, maybe we'll need a temporary Veterans Committee to judge whether or not former WBC participants should get in?

I approve of both of these ideas.

Maybe there should also be some sort of provision for a revote after 15, 20, 25, etc. WBCs for those that lose their HoF vote after 10?

Could you clarify this a bit? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

One of the biggest potential issues with voting is that almost everybody who was around during the early days of the WBC isn't active anymore. Among the current cycle, about half first entered the WBC 10-15 cycles ago and the other half first entered sometime during the 30s. This probably won't be as much of a problem going forward because we won't be dealing with decisions on individuals whom we don't remember but it could be a problem early on (which is why a temporary Veterans Committee, if we went that route, would need to be comprised of those willing to dig through old WBC threads and read old RPs moreso than those who were actually around in those days).

Yeah, this will be a challenge. Heck, I'm one of the longest tenured active members of the WBC now, and I've only been around for 14 tournaments. If we can get Zwang, Milchama, Saugeais, some of those folk to come back and provide their opinions and votes, that would be ideal, but otherwise we may need people to go back and dig through threads.

[Schiltzberg]

What about automatic induction for those who get to 20 points but a vote for those who have entered 10 WBCs and haven't qualified for the HoF yet?

I think some sort of threshold like this, maybe 10, maybe 15, is a good idea.

Maybe Hall of Famers should have a vote for the Hall of Fame whether or not they're currently Council members? If we put everybody who entered 10 WBCs but didn't get 20 points up to vote, maybe we'll need a temporary Veterans Committee to judge whether or not former WBC participants should get in?

I approve of both of these ideas.

Maybe there should also be some sort of provision for a revote after 15, 20, 25, etc. WBCs for those that lose their HoF vote after 10?

Could you clarify this a bit? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

One of the biggest potential issues with voting is that almost everybody who was around during the early days of the WBC isn't active anymore. Among the current cycle, about half first entered the WBC 10-15 cycles ago and the other half first entered sometime during the 30s. This probably won't be as much of a problem going forward because we won't be dealing with decisions on individuals whom we don't remember but it could be a problem early on (which is why a temporary Veterans Committee, if we went that route, would need to be comprised of those willing to dig through old WBC threads and read old RPs moreso than those who were actually around in those days).

Yeah, this will be a challenge. Heck, I'm one of the longest tenured active members of the WBC now, and I've only been around for 14 tournaments. If we can get Zwang, Milchama, Saugeais, some of those folk to come back and provide their opinions and votes, that would be ideal, but otherwise we may need people to go back and dig through threads.

I like the idea of a vote on people 10/15 with a guaranteed in at 20. I think that it would be tricky with the vote, especially with active players, because, say we vote on Western Cuba, for example, who I believe would fall in that 10-20 point area. Say we vote that Western Cuba should not be in the Hall of Fame, but then say he wins another WBC and a lot of people change their minds. Maybe we could make a rule with the voting that any time that anyone gets more points and is still in the 10-20 point range, then we revote on their candidacy, until they get voted in. I think that anyone who has 20 should be guarenteed a shot in it, just because there are so few people at that level. I know that probably not everyone on the council remembers who Az-cz and Newmanistan and Qazox are, but I think that they should be guarenteed a spot in, even if they have been forgotten. I think that this rule of guaranteeing everyone that has 20 or more points would solve the problem of the people from the older WBCs being forgotten.

[Super-Llamaland]

Maybe there should also be some sort of provision for a revote after 15, 20, 25, etc. WBCs for those that lose their HoF vote after 10?

Could you clarify this a bit? I'm not quite sure what you mean.[/quote]

I think he means that if a nation is up to vote after 10 WBCs and they aren't voted in, they can still be voted in after 15 WBCs and so on.

Yeah, this will be a challenge. Heck, I'm one of the longest tenured active members of the WBC now, and I've only been around for 14 tournaments. If we can get Zwang, Milchama, Saugeais, some of those folk to come back and provide their opinions and votes, that would be ideal, but otherwise we may need people to go back and dig through threads.

My original idea was to only start this retroactive voting in a few classics (maybe five?)

[Maklohi Vai]

Could you clarify this a bit? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I think he means that if a nation is up to vote after 10 WBCs and they aren't voted in, they can still be voted in after 15 WBCs and so on.

Ah, I see. Makes sense to me.

Yeah, this will be a challenge. Heck, I'm one of the longest tenured active members of the WBC now, and I've only been around for 14 tournaments. If we can get Zwang, Milchama, Saugeais, some of those folk to come back and provide their opinions and votes, that would be ideal, but otherwise we may need people to go back and dig through threads.

My original idea was to only start this retroactive voting in a few classics (maybe five?)

Also makes sense. Five seems about right.

[Nova Anglicana]

My two cents:

I really like the idea of a Hall of Fame. And I do like the idea of allowing people to be revoted on after a certain amount of time. To me, the way the MLB HOF does things (75% threshold, only 10 votes for dozens of candidates) is a little restrictive. I think having the ability to consider more people and revisit candidates is fair. And whatever we need to do (automatic 20 pt induction, Veterans' Committee) to get some of the all-time greats that are no longer here into the HOF is good with me. And in terms of when to start the voting, why not for the 40th anniversary, so in four classics? That way I can come in 3rd to celebrate.

[Frenline Delpha]

My two cents:

I really like the idea of a Hall of Fame. And I do like the idea of allowing people to be revoted on after a certain amount of time. To me, the way the MLB HOF does things (75% threshold, only 10 votes for dozens of candidates) is a little restrictive. I think having the ability to consider more people and revisit candidates is fair. And whatever we need to do (automatic 20 pt induction, Veterans' Committee) to get some of the all-time greats that are no longer here into the HOF is good with me. And in terms of when to start the voting, why not for the 40th anniversary, so in four classics? That way I can come in 3rd to celebrate.

Lol. Touche.

[Schiltzberg]

My two cents:

I really like the idea of a Hall of Fame. And I do like the idea of allowing people to be revoted on after a certain amount of time. To me, the way the MLB HOF does things (75% threshold, only 10 votes for dozens of candidates) is a little restrictive. I think having the ability to consider more people and revisit candidates is fair. And whatever we need to do (automatic 20 pt induction, Veterans' Committee) to get some of the all-time greats that are no longer here into the HOF is good with me. And in terms of when to start the voting, why not for the 40th anniversary, so in four classics? That way I can come in 3rd to celebrate.

That sounds good to me. Maybe between now and then we could write and vote on an amendment to the WBC constitution concerning this and outlining the procedure, just so that the rules are defined and clear and there isn't confusion or controversy surrounding the system when it comes to voting.

I have done a good amount of research on the WBC history to make this kind of thing. I originally was just going to make my own personal hall of fame for the WBC, but since the idea caught on, it would be even better to have it as an official WBC thing. I have researched so far through WBC 19, and I have only updated it to WBC 11 on my factbook so far, but you guys can check out my progress so far at this link. I created this factbook for anyone who wants to use WBC history in their RPs, because I myself wanted to do that. Anyway, if we have an automatic induction at 20 points, based off of the point system that we all seem to be in agreement on, I know that at least these people would be in, and probably more that I am missing:
Az-cz (3-time winner and host)
Milchama (3-time winner, plus enough close finishes)
Qazox (3-time winner and many time host)
Zwangzug (2-time winner, plus one-time host and various close finishes. I think he just barely makes it over 20 points.)
Newmanistan (4-time winner, plus so much else)
Cassadaigua (3-time winner, host, and many close finishes)
Super-Llamaland (3-time winner and host, but we would have to decide if we are allowed to induct active players or not. I personally say we should be able to.)
Probably more. Like I say, I have not researched WBCs 20-36, so there are probably some in that era.

[Schiltzberg]

Omg, I just found out that WBC 30 had a poetry contest for an RP bonus. We should totally do that again!

[Super-Llamaland]

Omg, I just found out that WBC 30 had a poetry contest for an RP bonus. We should totally do that again!

That was New Wolfopolis' idea IIRC, but I wouldn't object to one

If we want to go forwards with the HOF idea, writing up an amendment would the logical next step. I'm busy with exams right now but will have some time over the summer to work on things.

[Maklohi Vai]

If we want to go forwards with the HOF idea, writing up an amendment would the logical next step. I'm busy with exams right now but will have some time over the summer to work on things.

I am in the exact same boat. If you'd like, we should coordinate on writing that in a few weeks.

[Frenline Delpha]

If we want to go forwards with the HOF idea, writing up an amendment would the logical next step. I'm busy with exams right now but will have some time over the summer to work on things.

I am in the exact same boat. If you'd like, we should coordinate on writing that in a few weeks.

I'm available now. If you guys want my help, I am willing to give it.

[Maklohi Vai]

I am in the exact same boat. If you'd like, we should coordinate on writing that in a few weeks.

I'm available now. If you guys want my help, I am willing to give it.

Any help is welcome! This is a big thing for the community, so I hope we'll have be as open as possible.

[Schiltzberg]

If we want to go forwards with the HOF idea, writing up an amendment would the logical next step. I'm busy with exams right now but will have some time over the summer to work on things.

I am in the exact same boat. If you'd like, we should coordinate on writing that in a few weeks.

I have finals too. Frenline, if you want to write something up, go for it.

[Frenline Delpha]

viewtopic.php?p=18096826#p18096826

Just to be clear, this is the current constitution, right?

[Saintland]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18096826#p18096826

Just to be clear, this is the current constitution, right?

Actually, there was an amendment that passed in 2014, so the current version is here. The amendment altered the forfeit rule to clarify the score of a forfeit and restrict that rule's application to playoff rounds.

It isn't exactly the easiest to find since that was right after Qazox (who posted the OP of this thread) left NS. Maybe we should consider creating a new WBCDT with a WBC nation as thread OP so we can ensure the Constitution and the rankings are easy to find?

[Frenline Delpha]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18096826#p18096826

Just to be clear, this is the current constitution, right?

Actually, there was an amendment that passed in 2014, so the current version is here. The amendment altered the forfeit rule to clarify the score of a forfeit and restrict that rule's application to playoff rounds.

It isn't exactly the easiest to find since that was right after Qazox (who posted the OP of this thread) left NS. Maybe we should consider creating a new WBCDT with a WBC nation as thread OP so we can ensure the Constitution and the rankings are easy to find?

Agreed. I think this would be for the benefit of the entire WBC organization.

[Frenline Delpha]

What about automatic induction for those who get to 20 points but a vote for those who have entered 10 WBCs and haven't qualified for the HoF yet?

I think we should require that they posted at least a roster in ten (non-consecutive or otherwise) WBCs, that way we don't end up voting on someone who signed up for ten WBCs but didn't do squat.

NM, saw the Elder Council idea. I like it.

The first draft of the proposed article is done. I'd like every council member to send an e-mail to 18berstchj@nadams.gaggle.net in order to be granted access to edit the document. This is to ensure that no non-council members edit the document.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1a9T ... sp=sharing

[Ethane]

I like this 'hall of fame' idea.

Also, just to clarify, am I in the council?