Nationstates Olympic Games Discussion Thread

[Eonstar]

Surely we can request that CH have the previous champions go through the qualifying stages, same as everyone else? I don't see how that would be a big burden or an unfair request...

You can request that CH rename his nation "Magical Donut Land" if you want. It's a free country and you can request whatever you want. That doesn't mean he has to agree to it on your say so. The request has been made and answered. If you don't like the answer, tough. What you can't do is demand CH do anything, so now that you've made your request and it's been answered, stop.

Now, that's enough. We don't need to keep repeating the same things. Enough is enough.

As far as I can tell going back through the thread, CH has yet to respond to the issue of previous champions automatically qualifying. As such, I have added my 2 cents to the issue in the hopes that CH will consider not using automatic qualification for previous champions. If CH's response is that he will retain the automatic qualification, I will drop the matter (though my nation might complain about down the road in-character).

[95X]

Automatic qualification for the previous champion is deeply unfair.

I can understand your concerns as a newcomer. Please understand that Commerce Heights is one of the most respected tournament hosts in the community and runs the UICA association football/soccer competitions on a regular basis, which very closely matches the RL UEFA competitions. CH has also programmed the most widely-used scorinator in NS Sports history.

I would like to inform you that automatic qualifiers are in use at the RL 2016 Summer Olympics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men's_qualification
Furthermore, the current world champion, United States qualified automatically by winning at the 2014 FIBA Basketball World Cup.

Furthermore, the RL competition even provides "invitational places," such as those in this article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Qualification, to refugees and athletes whose nation is barred from entering.

Thank you, have an excellent day.

[West Phoencia]

Just a quick question with this talk of Region Qualifiers.

As I am the only one from my region participating in the Games. Is there anything that I need to do that I haven't?

I have posted My delegation.

A lot of the above posts have confused me a little.

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

Just a quick question with this talk of Region Qualifiers.

As I am the only one from my region participating in the Games. Is there anything that I need to do that I haven't?

I have posted My delegation.

A lot of the above posts have confused me a little.

Don't worry man. Here's your answer for that:

I wrote this response to some questions someone asked by TG; I’ll post it here in case it helps to better explain what I’m doing.

Anyone can host a qualifying event, whether they’re in a big or small region. The only effect that regional affiliation has is that if a qualifying event is being held in a region, any entrants from that region will be sent there and not somewhere else.

I will be hosting one qualifying event (“Olympic test event”) in Aeropag for each sport. In the event that no one else decides to host a qualifying event in a sport, then all the entrants will go to that one event. If one or more people have stepped up to host qualifying events, then the entrants in those regions will be assigned to the events in their own regions, and all of the remaining entrants will be assigned in such a way that each event will have roughly equal size and strength.

In short, these are not strictly regional qualifiers, I’ve just sprinkled a bit of regional flavor on a qualifying system that I’ve chosen to implement for other reasons.

[West Phoencia]

All good thank you.

As this is the Olympics. Can people just agreed to disagree and move on. It's a fun sporting event. In Rl the host nation usually qualifies. Doesn't mean they win. When the Olympics were hosted in Sydney we were in every event, But still sucked at most of the sports we are not good at.

And I was reading about the Australian Paralympics team where they qualified as they won gold at the previous games. Again does not mean they in again. It's giving them kudos from their previous win.

As Water Polo is about to have their own championship coming up, before the Olympics. Will the winning team be granted automatic qualifying entry also?

[The Royal Kingdom of Quebec]

All good thank you.

As this is the Olympics. Can people just agreed to disagree and move on. It's a fun sporting event. In Rl the host nation usually qualifies. Doesn't mean they win. When the Olympics were hosted in Sydney we were in every event, But still sucked at most of the sports we are not good at.

And I was reading about the Australian Paralympics team where they qualified as they won gold at the previous games. Again does not mean they in again. It's giving them kudos from their previous win.

As Water Polo is about to have their own championship coming up, before the Olympics. Will the winning team be granted automatic qualifying entry also?

Can confirm, especially with how bad the British NT was in basketball for London 2012

With water polo.....you'll have to ask CH about that, since that competition you're talking about is pretty new.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Based on the ruling that titles and serial numbers are not valid names, does this mean our delegation is invalid since that's how commoner names work in our country? Or is our existing delegation grandfathered in because Saintland allowed it but we can't submit any more with that format? Or are we good since, you know, the title and serial number is their actual name and it's unrealistic to expect us to give them new names just for the Olympics?

[Commerce Heights]

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I feel it needs to be said:

Your opinions don’t matter.

I’m not saying that to be mean to you (whoever you are). It’s just a reality of the way that NS Sports operates. Every event in this forum is run by someone who has voluntarily taken on the responsibility of hosting it for their own personal enjoyment. No one has the right, or even the capacity, to make a host do anything they don’t personally want to do. As Coraspia said, in a different context:

My CV indicates that I'm a good computer programmer. If I don't want to write you a program, however, I won't. It matters less than you believe, because motivation comes into this.

Now, despite this, NS Sports is not an absolute dictatorship of event hosts. If anyone is dissatisfied with how someone proposes to host an event, they have two remedies: decline to participate in that event, or vote for a more preferable host.

The second is rarely an option for the Olympic Games. Very few people are willing to host the Olympic Games because it is exceptionally difficult. In this instance, it was made even more difficult because signups were already in progress when the original host withdrew. As such, the vote for a replacement host was, like the majority of host votes in the history of this event, uncontested. (Indeed, the majority of the five previous Olympic Games I hosted were during a period when there were no host votes at all, because there was no likelihood of a contested vote, and so no one saw any point to maintaining the Olympic Council as an entity.)

Consequently, hosts of the Olympic Games have very broad discretion over the organization of the event, and anyone who disagrees with their decisions has the option to either accept those decisions, or withdraw their participation. (Note that this is one more option than people are generally afforded in real-life politics.) Many past hosts have made decisions that I disagreed with, and I’m sure many of them have disagreed with decisions that I’ve made, or will make as these Games progress. But I’ve accepted their decisions, and they’ve accepted mine.

If you would like to politely suggest that I have made an error in judgement, then you’re welcome to do so. It’s likely that I’ve already considered your preferred alternative and decided against it, but I would be happy to explain my reasoning if you ask nicely. But I will surely not be swayed by aggressive or sustained demands, or attacks on my character or competence. If you truly find my decisions intolerable, your only recourse is to withdraw from the Olympic Games.

---

Now, to address some more specific issues:

I'd be perfectly willing to host the demonstration events, however their was no question of anyone else being allowed to do this. If people want to send in teams for the demonstration events, why change the goalposts?

While the cancellation of blitzball, pankration, men’s baseball, and women’s softball was implicitly approved by the Executive Committee, and it is clearly far too late to be raising this issue again, I will address it once more:

If someone were to organize these demonstration events and hold them in Aeropag, without my consent, that would be godmodding.

If someone were to organize these demonstration events and hold them in another nation, it would be hard to see how they were in any way connected to the Olympic Games.

It is not a 'win-win,' it's a way of making the host have to do less work. If he was not prepared for the job of hosting the Olympics, he should have not hosted the Olympics. It really is as simple as that.

I have accepted the full responsibility of organizing these Games. I have merely offered to delegate a portion of that responsibility to others. If no one accepted that offer, I would retain the responsibility of organizing all qualifying events. If someone who has chosen to host a qualifying event fails to complete it, I will be responsible for completing it.

The way heats have always worked did not benefit the winners from previous Olympics/world championships/the host, they weren't separate from the main Olympics, and they were in a bid we could all scrutinise.

It is manifestly not the norm for bids to host the Olympic Games to give any details about the formats of particular events. No such information can be found in Ilyseum’s original bid.

It would be utterly absurd to expect that a bid would give, for example, 21 pages of details on the possible formats for rowing events (see Appendix 6, pp. 159–179) (see also this FISA memorandum which altered one of those formats), and similar details for twenty-seven other sports plus demonstration events. While it is generally accepted that event formats should resemble those used at the real-life Olympic Games, hosts have historically been free to decide the best way to achieve that.

Automatic qualification for the previous champion is deeply unfair.

There’s no need to exaggerate. It is slightly unfair to people who don’t participate in those world championships. I have, of course, considered that, since I don’t participate in any of these world championships myself. (Yes, I’ve given myself automatic qualification as host, but I’ve also thought about the precedent this could set for future Games.) To me, the benefits of creating a more realistic competition outweigh that minor inequity.

As far as I can tell going back through the thread, CH has yet to respond to the issue of previous champions automatically qualifying. As such, I have added my 2 cents to the issue in the hopes that CH will consider not using automatic qualification for previous champions. If CH's response is that he will retain the automatic qualification, I will drop the matter…

My decision stands.

…(though my nation might complain about down the road in-character).

You’re certainly welcome to do so.

As Water Polo is about to have their own championship coming up, before the Olympics. Will the winning team be granted automatic qualifying entry also?

I chose to only recognize the champions of established recurring championships. Since it is likely that many people weren’t aware of the Water Polo Cup or didn’t consider it important, it would be more unfair to grant qualification to its champion that it is to grant qualification to the champions of well-known events like the World Cup or International Basketball Championships.

It doesn’t look like the Water Polo Cup is even going to be finished before the start of Olympic qualifying, so it wouldn’t be possible anyway.

On a slightly different note, CH, how will Olympic records be handled during the qualifiers?

Performances at athletics qualifying events will not be considered Olympic records, since the qualifying events are being held separately from the Olympic Games. However, I will recognize performances which surpass the current Olympic records as world records.

If—using the same principle as I did to select the automatic qualifiers—there were an established recurring world championship in any sport for which Olympic records are kept, I would also recognize performances at that championship as world records…but there are none. (The only candidate I can think of would be Civil Citizenry’s Water World Championships, for swimming records, but that competition is sufficiently dead that I’m going to ignore it.) Thus, the athletics qualifying events will be the only non-Olympic events from which I will recognize world records.

Based on the ruling that titles and serial numbers are not valid names, does this mean our delegation is invalid since that's how commoner names work in our country? Or is our existing delegation grandfathered in because Saintland allowed it but we can't submit any more with that format? Or are we good since, you know, the title and serial number is their actual name and it's unrealistic to expect us to give them new names just for the Olympics?

Gregoryisgodistani names are not serial numbers in the literal sense, and clear the minimum threshold for names that I am willing to accept.

---

So far, I have not received any offers to host qualifying events in basketball, hockey, American football, or baseball-softball. While I am willing to host the entire qualifying competition for these sports myself if necessary, I would prefer that there be at least one event other than my own for each sport.

[Qasden]

So far, I have not received any offers to host qualifying events in basketball, hockey, American football, or baseball-softball. While I am willing to host the entire qualifying competition for these sports myself if necessary, I would prefer that there be at least one event other than my own for each sport.

I'll gladly host a qualifying event. Just grab a sport out of a hat and I'll do it. At least, try to do it X3

[Barunia]

Barunia will be happy to host hockey. We hosted the Celebration Of Field Hockey, the last major Field Hockey tournament on these forums.

[Fluvique]

So far, I have not received any offers to host qualifying events in basketball, hockey, American football, or baseball-softball. While I am willing to host the entire qualifying competition for these sports myself if necessary, I would prefer that there be at least one event other than my own for each sport.

You can count with me to host basketball, if needed

[CoraSpia]

I'd be happy to host American football.

My point with the demonstration events had more to do with what happened when Kytler hosted the games, where someone else scorinated some of the events. Why could this not happen here?

[Qasden]

I suppose I'll scorinate the baseball-softball qualifying event for AO/the multiverse :3

[Liventia]

My point with the demonstration events had more to do with what happened when Kytler hosted the games, where someone else scorinated some of the events. Why could this not happen here?

Fairly sure CH said this somewhere, but I can't find it exactly at the moment.

Basically demonstration events, at least IRL, at meant to show off sports with close links to the host country. CH felt he could offer no in-character justification for a Games in Aeropag to include the events he cut because they are not widely practised in Aeropag.

Also, moving these demonstration events away from Aeropag and having someone else host them pretty much means they aren't demonstration events at an Olympics.

So the decision was made to cut them, and all three ExCo members were happy with the proposal put forward.

When Kytler hosted the Games, the demonstration events still took place ICly in his nation, and he was happy for that to be the IC line because his nation had some sort of (implicit or explicit) RP history with those events. That they ended up being scorinated by someone else is by-the-by.

Demonstration events, after all, are not required to be held by any host, and anyone who judges a potential host purely by the number of demo sports/events they will include is seriously mistaken about the hosting of the Olympics on NS (and, for that matter, hosting any major event on NS).

Hope that clears it up somewhat.

[Krytenia]

My point with the demonstration events had more to do with what happened when Kytler hosted the games, where someone else scorinated some of the events. Why could this not happen here?

Have you seen the signup thread for Ilysea's rival competition? You'll notice the dropped demo events are the ones in the signup. I'm thinking that's probably why.

[CoraSpia]

My point with the demonstration events had more to do with what happened when Kytler hosted the games, where someone else scorinated some of the events. Why could this not happen here?

Have you seen the signup thread for Ilysea's rival competition? You'll notice the dropped demo events are the ones in the signup. I'm thinking that's probably why.

It's not a 'rival' competition. It's after the Olympics.

[Krytenia]

Have you seen the signup thread for Ilysea's rival competition? You'll notice the dropped demo events are the ones in the signup. I'm thinking that's probably why.

It's not a 'rival' competition. It's after the Olympics.

Either way, my point still stands about the demo events.

[Free Republics]

Have you seen the signup thread for Ilysea's rival competition? You'll notice the dropped demo events are the ones in the signup. I'm thinking that's probably why.

It's not a 'rival' competition. It's after the Olympics.

Correct and assuming it draws a decent level of interest and activity, I'm planning on keeping it around as a more manageable Olympic-like event and therefore one that could be held on a more regular basis (though ideally never simultaneously with the Olympics).

[Dunnes]

CH:
When will we know the hosts and dates for the Olympic Qualifiers?

[The Serbian Empire]

I wonder if the fencing was the only thing wrong with my entry. If so, I'm impressed that I could expand my roster three-fold and not have more than a small error of that nature.

[Liventia]

Purely out of interest/boredom, here's a list of (accepted) signups, sorted by min-max score (where 100 represents a fully min-maxed 0/100/0/100/0/100 signup, and 0 represents a signup consisting solely of entries with the same skill modifier). This list does not take demonstration entries into account. Nations/delegations towards the top of this list are likely to have lower MMAB values.

A note that this list is completely unofficial and has no bearing on the Olympics itself; it's just useful to know which delegations have min-maxed. This list is accurate as of CH's last confirmation post (corrections and signups since are not reflected).

Rk	Delegation					Min-Max	STDEV	Avg
 1	Vekaiyu (VEK)					79.312	39.656	49.98
 2	Kelssek (KSK)					77.904	38.952	49.46
 3	Gregoryisgodistan (GGS)				71.908	35.954	48.95

 4	Taeshan (TAE)					70.696	35.348	49.96
 5	Greater Vakolicci Haven (VKL)			69.563	34.782	50.00
 6	Ferkas (CKF)					68.859	34.429	49.77
 7	Kannap (KAN)					68.249	34.125	46.95
 8	Vettrera (VTR)					66.371	33.185	49.92
 9	The Licentian Isles (TLI)			63.606	31.803	50.00
10	Thatius (THA)					63.293	31.646	49.83
11	Krytenia (KRY)					63.214	31.607	50.00
12	Wray (WRY)					61.132	30.566	49.91
13	The Sarian (TSA)				60.397	30.199	50.00
14	Eastfield Lodge (EFL)				60.307	30.153	50.00
15	Ndaku (NDA)					59.987	29.993	49.97
16	Dunnës (DUN)					59.022	29.511	49.31
17	Electrum (ETM)					58.171	29.085	49.98
18	Cosumar (COS)					58.066	29.033	49.91
19	East Saintland (SNT)				57.742	28.871	50.00
20	Bulgar Rouge (BUL)				55.910	27.955	46.17
21	Zillmerilic (ZMC)				55.563	27.781	45.36
22	Amazonesta (AMZ)				54.860	27.430	50.00
23	Liventia (LEN)					54.684	27.342	50.00
24	Astyrian Unified Team (AST)			52.303	26.151	44.13
25	Free Republics (FFR)				51.884	25.942	50.00
26	Royal Kingdom of Québec (QUE)			51.746	25.873	50.00
27	Banguela (BNG)					49.715	24.858	50.00
28	Togonistan (TGN)				47.749	23.874	38.36

29	Mapletish (MAP)					46.217	23.109	50.00
30	Selimab (SAB)					45.891	22.946	42.56
31	Valanora (VAL)					44.708	22.354	44.32
32	Kriegiersien (KGS)				43.371	21.685	47.33
33	Drawkland (DRK)					41.398	20.699	48.73
34	Kaboomlandian Confederation			40.700	20.350	39.97
35	West Phoenicia (KWP)				39.771	19.886	37.59
36	Eonstar (EON)					39.506	19.753	49.95
37	Benjamin Mark (BNM)				39.144	19.572	49.16
38	Estogium (RWH)					38.389	19.195	50.00
39	Fluvique (FLU)					36.830	18.415	49.89
40	Free Swiss States (FSS)				32.100	16.050	43.68
41	Arioslavia (ARO)				32.039	16.020	39.59
42	Britonisea (BRI)				30.543	15.272	50.00
43	Judea (JUD)					29.375	14.688	48.94
44	San Llera (SAN)					28.546	14.273	49.77
45	Banija (BNJ)					25.687	12.843	50.00
46	Paputu (PAP)					24.704	12.352	47.66

47	Vangaziland (VNG)				21.958	10.979	50.00
48	Tobiasia (TOB)					19.556	 9.778	48.70
49	Qasden (QAD)					16.108	 8.054	47.74
50	North Eurasian Unified Sporting Team (NES)	15.388	 7.694	49.34
51	West Angola (WAN)				11.742	 5.871	50.00
52	Orion Islands (ROI)				 0.000	 0.000	50.00		

MEAN							47.229	23.614	48.13
Each line separator denotes 25% of min-max scores, where 47.229 is the mean

[Banija]

I'm assuming that there are no age restrictions for soccer players in the NS Olympics? I know RL is U23+3 but I just wanted to know if that applied to the NS Olympics as well or no.

[Astyrian Olympics Delegation]

Purely out of interest/boredom, here's a list of (accepted) signups, sorted by min-max score (where 100 represents a fully min-maxed 0/100/0/100/0/100 signup, and 0 represents a signup consisting solely of entries with the same skill modifier). This list does not take demonstration entries into account. Nations/delegations towards the top of this list are likely to have lower MMAB values.

A note that this list is completely unofficial and has no bearing on the Olympics itself; it's just useful to know which delegations have min-maxed. This list is accurate as of CH's last confirmation post (corrections and signups since are not reflected).

Rk	Delegation					Min-Max	STDEV	Avg
24	Astyrian Unified Team (AST)			52.303	26.151	44.13

Except that our last accepted entry, which is now the standing entry for our participation in the competition had an average of 45.43

[The Licentian Isles]

Purely out of interest/boredom, here's a list of (accepted) signups, sorted by min-max score (where 100 represents a fully min-maxed 0/100/0/100/0/100 signup, and 0 represents a signup consisting solely of entries with the same skill modifier). This list does not take demonstration entries into account. Nations/delegations towards the top of this list are likely to have lower MMAB values.

A note that this list is completely unofficial and has no bearing on the Olympics itself; it's just useful to know which delegations have min-maxed. This list is accurate as of CH's last confirmation post (corrections and signups since are not reflected).

Rk	Delegation					Min-Max	STDEV	Avg
24	Astyrian Unified Team (AST)			52.303	26.151	44.13

Except that our last accepted entry, which is now the standing entry for our participation in the competition had an average of 45.43

To be fair to Liventia, he posted that prior to your final delegation being posted, and I don't believe he's been updating it as signups continued.

[Astyrian Olympics Delegation]

To be fair to Liventia, he posted that prior to your final delegation being posted, and I don't believe he's been updating it as signups continued.

I must have misread the timestamp on the post. Thank you.