Out-of-Character {OC} Thread for Storefront

[United Earthlings]

As the previous storefront ended up having quite a bit of OC comments that sometimes made it hard to keep track of the current orders due to the clutter it created, I have decided to head off that eventuality this time and as such I have created this OC thread just for the storefront. So any questions or comments you have about the storefront itself, replies to other posters, any and all requests such as new product additions, anything that’s not even a little bit In-Character, I kindly request you post here in this thread.

Fair warning, if you still by accident post an OC reply in the main thread, I will give you a warning the first time and redirect you here to this thread, the second time I won’t be as considerate in my response.

[Democratic Colonies]

(11.) While the products on this storefront are based on Real Life products any Similarity to Real Life products is purely coincidence.

That's funny. You should become a comedy writer.

[United Earthlings]

That's funny. You should become a comedy writer.

Thank you, but if you knew the reason while I posted that clause you wouldn't be laughing or if you were, you'd probably die from laughter for how truly sad it is that I had to put in the first place such a clause in of all things a fictional business [storefront]. However, oddly enough if you will believe that simple clause has saved me a lot of headache over the years, so for a little bit of irony, I think it worked out quite well. Universal Balance Restored!

[Zinaire]

That's funny. You should become a comedy writer.

Thank you, but if you knew the reason while I posted that clause you wouldn't be laughing or if you were, you'd probably die from laughter for how truly sad it is that I had to put in the first place such a clause in of all things a fictional business [storefront]. However, oddly enough if you will believe that simple clause has saved me a lot of headache over the years, so for a little bit of irony, I think it worked out quite well. Universal Balance Restored!

I think you should develop a gun that gets rid of sentences that don't make sense.

[Ekraysia]

Hey, you may won't remember me, I used to be Antigr.

Anyhoo, I thought you'd vanished from the forums a couple of years ago.

[United Earthlings]

I think you should develop a gun that gets rid of sentences that don't make sense.

I'll pass that note along to my engineers, but currently their working on a gun that when fired at either a single individual or a group, allows them within a few milliseconds to understand irony or anything that happens to be ironic at that exact moment in time. If, this project is successful, our next weapon's design one will be a portable pistol that when fired emits a form of particle waves that make the individual or group targeted forced to understand/feel the users point of view, whatever they point of view may be. Were expecting if successful to make quite the profit from this weapon.

Note: If you saw the 2005 movie "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", you'll know exactly what gun/weapon I'm talking about.

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Hey, you may won't remember me, I used to be Antigr.

I don't remember Ekraysia, but I do remember Antigr. How's s/he been? I even oddly enough still have one of his old telegrams sitting in my inbox.

On a more series note, you do know you can undelete your own nation right? A mod is no longer neccessary.

Anyhoo, I thought you'd vanished from the forums a couple of years ago.

Hey , I haven't been inactive from the forums that long. Then again, my nation never vanished by deletion did it. So

That was fun, I haven't gotten to use so many smiles in over 6 months.

[Ekraysia]

I don't remember Ekraysia, but I do remember Antigr. How's s/he been? I even oddly enough still have one of his old telegrams sitting in my inbox.

On a more series note, you do know you can undelete your own nation right? A mod is no longer neccessary.

Save for a terrible toe-stubbing incident, he's been well.

A friend told me several months ago that I could un-delete, but I decided not to, as things are going so well. As for your Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy gun, I seriously would look into buying one. Or buying the film, whichever is cheaper.

[Democratic Colonies]

AsI was invited to do so,, I will elaborate on my thoughts concerning the UEMS storefront.

(11.) While the products on this storefront are based on Real Life products any Similarity to Real Life products is purely coincidence.

This statement from the 11th point of the regulations and notices section is highly problematic. I'm going to break it down, as it makes two assertions.

(11.) While the products on this storefront are based on Real Life products...

So the storefront has products based on real life products. You have seen real life products and based these storefront products on these real life products in a deliberate action. Basing things on other things is a deliberate choice.

(11.) ...any Similarity to Real Life products is purely coincidence.

So you saw real life products and based these storefront products on these real life products in a deliberate action... by coincidence?

That is not how basing things on other things work. One cannot see Painting A, base Painting B on Painting A, and then claim that any similarity to Painting A is purely coincidence. The concepts of basing things on other things, and being similar to other things by coincidence, are mutually exclusive.



Continuing, I believe that the claim that the similarity of the UEMS storefront products to real life products is purely coincidence is rather absurd. You are saying that the Barret M82 rifle, which looks like this, has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 feet per second, is 1,448 millimeters long, and is outlined in detail here is one rifle, and the Barret M82 rifle, which looks like this, has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 feet per second, is 1,448 millimeters long, and is outlined in detail here are two totally different rifles and the fact that they look exactly the same and share the exact same specifications are entirely coincidental. That's a bit of a big coincidence, don't you think?



Now, continuing on with the 11th point of the UEMS regulations and notices,

(11.) Advance metals, materials and technologies are used so that the products listed here exceed those that they are based on and those of other nations.

As UEMS has been active for some years now, and has processed over 929 sales, perhaps it's about time that the UEMS actually provides some information about what advanced metals, materials and technologies are used to make the UEMS Barret M82 rifle better than the RL Barret M82 rifle?



Now, leaving the 11th point alone for now, I will backtrack a bit. The 9th point of the regulations and notices section has an OOC notice attached. Bolding is mine:

(9.) Production Rights Agreement- Production Rights Agreement: By buying production rights to said product, you acquire the right to not only produce said product in your nation for life but you also acquire the advance manufacturing methods we use and any modifications you make to said product is yours and yours alone. UEMS can not claim any rights to said product. However, you may not sell, transfer, share or loan the manufacturing methods or production rights of said product to other nations if you have not made any modifications to that said product. Violation of the Production Rights Agreement will result at least in the removal of the production rights and at worse a state of war. [OCC Note: Upon request at the time of order, should you inquire to know what exact manufacturing methods your nation will be acquiring, I will state so via a private message in due time. Additional Note: Those manufacturing methods are copyrighted {trade marked} by me {UEMS}, so please respect that.]

It is implied that with the purchase of production rights to the UEMS Barret M82 rifle, advanced manufacturing methods are a part of the transaction as well. Again, as UEMS has been active for some years now, and has processed over 929 sales, perhaps it's about time that the UEMS actually provides some information about what advanced manufacturing methods are used to make UEMS products like the UEMS Barret M82 rifle better than the RL Barret M82 rifle?

[United Earthlings]

This statement from the 11th point of the regulations and notices section is highly problematic. I'm going to break it down, as it makes two assertions.

OK

So the storefront has products based on real life products. You have seen real life products and based these storefront products on these real life products in a deliberate action. Basing things on other things is a deliberate choice.

OK, I'm following you so far...

So you saw real life products and based these storefront products on these real life products in a deliberate action... by coincidence?

That is not how basing things on other things work. One cannot see Painting A, base Painting B on Painting A, and then claim that any similarity to Painting A is purely coincidence. The concepts of basing things on other things, and being similar to other things by coincidence, are mutually exclusive.

Yes, by coincidence due to various factors that don't exist in the real life world, but that due exist in the NS world. Actually, that's exactly how basing things on other things work if you choose to see it that way as it often is viewed in a fictional world. While Painting B may be similar as you didn't state what the artist intent nor their skill level was when trying to copy Painting A, however no matter what the artist's skill level or intent there will be at the least subtle differences thereby creating an original work of art that it can be argued that the similarity between the two paintings is purely coincidence since Painter B was only using Painting A as a basis and from there adding in his or her own self-expression. I at least learned that much from taking those humanity courses and studying all that art work. For example, say the painting is of a mountain. Painter B paints that exact same mountain, but years-decades after painter A did. Painter A and Painter B both paint the same mountain, but since both Painters are separated by time and space, there work of art being similar would deem to be entirely coincidence. The world is not black and white, there are so many shades of grey that some events are just that random and by coincidence.

Continuing, I believe that the claim that the similarity of the UEMS storefront products to real life products is purely coincidence is rather absurd. You are saying that the Barret M82 rifle are two totally different rifles and the fact that they look exactly the same and share the exact same specifications are entirely coincidental. That's a bit of a big coincidence, don't you think?

No, again your not seeing the larger picture, those shades of grey. Using your example, your choosing to view the final product, that being the Barret M82 as the product itself. I view the products as nothing more then the assembling of many components that come together to in this case make the Barret M82 sniper rifle. Can you count in how many ways by changing one little component of something, in this case the Barret M82, that you can alter it into something else entirely, but at the same time maintain a degree of similarity. Because I can, so while the two may have similar specifications that's where the similarity ends and all the imaged differences begin. I don't have all the differences stated as a matter of record because that would consume a good deal of my time, but the simple fact of the matter is this is a fictional storefront and as I neither produce nor sale any of those weapons of war I have listed in the real world, listing them for sale is purely and entirely coincidental.

Coincidence: Noun; Act or condition of coinciding; the occurrence of one event at the same time as or following another without any causal connection.

Now, continuing on with the 11th point of the UEMS regulations and notices,

(11.) Advance metals, materials and technologies are used so that the products listed here exceed those that they are based on and those of other nations.

As UEMS has been active for some years now, and has processed over 929 sales, perhaps it's about time that the UEMS actually provides some information about what advanced metals, materials and technologies are used to make the UEMS Barret M82 rifle better than the RL Barret M82 rifle?

Now, leaving the 11th point alone for now, I will backtrack a bit. The 9th point of the regulations and notices section has an OOC notice attached. Bolding is mine:

It is implied that with the purchase of production rights to the UEMS Barret M82 rifle, advanced manufacturing methods are a part of the transaction as well. Again, as UEMS has been active for some years now, and has processed over 929 sales, perhaps it's about time that the UEMS actually provides some information about what advanced manufacturing methods are used to make UEMS products like the UEMS Barret M82 rifle better than the RL Barret M82 rifle?

Since the above statements imply the same thing, just worded a little differently, they can all be covered with one statement.

First, I don't directly state what those manufacturing methods are because, I consider those to be trade secrets. Does an internet company post it's source code, does a defense company post the technical blueprints of it's current and future products, not if they want to stay competitive. Asking me to do the same while, in a way reasonable since it's the internet and everyone has come to expect everything to be open and public on the internet, I took a different stance and choose to view running this storefront like I would a real life business and adding in just that little bit of extra realism. In that regard, I've never heard of a RL business willing posting it's intellectual property/trade secrets for the world to see. However, to be fair to those who choose to purchase that intellectual property and not seem like I'm conning them. I made the following statement and fully intend to honor it if so requested...

Upon request at the time of order, should you inquire to know what exact manufacturing methods your nation will be acquiring, I will state so via a private message in due time.

[Zinaire]

A few things, first wrong thread dude-as I told DC-comments-complaints-concerns-questions-bring them to the OCC thread I created.

I realize that there's an OOC thread, but you seem to prefer posting in the other one.

Third, I don't know if it was your intention or not, but as it stands your only coming off sounding like a dick.

That makes two of us. Many of your comments to DC were either extremely patronizing ("You understanding now what I’m getting at when I’m referring to market quality or do I need to explain further?") or just downright rude ("I'm sure there was a point you were trying to make in your statement above and therefore show I was using poor logic, but I'm sorry I'm just not seeing it, in fact from what I read").

Fourth, the above following sentence-[You may have better sales, but they're not from a particularly prestigious clientele]-is beyond hilarious and nearly cracked me up especially since from all people it's coming from you. I'll give you some time to think about that statement I bolded and if still don't see the unbelievable irony in it, then well I'll be more then glad to point it out to you.

Yes, I did make numerous purchases from you when I first started RPing. At the time, no one had been kind enough to tell me the rules regarding RL products, and you certainly weren't going to as it would harm your sales. That was more than a year ago though, and some of us have improved our RPing in that time.

Fifth and final point, I'm not the webmaster nor a moderator of Nationstates, it's not my job to teach everyone the various written and unwritten rules of Nationstates.

The moderators are hardly the only ones who can tell people how things work around here. More often than not, it's other players who are stepping up and telling newbies how things are done. If you want to use your lack of authority as an excuse to essentially run a scam (I don't know what else to call it when someone sells something that is available for free), good for you, but it's not a particularly convincing argument.

I've tried to provided as much information as I can in my storefront as it relates to storefront rules. Whether one chooses to read and comprehend those rules is beyond my ability. So, no if you would take the time to read through all those links and posted rules I was kindly enough to provide, you'd see I've covered pretty much everything.

All you do in your rules is go on about how these aren't actually RL products, how they're much better, and how buying DPRs allows the buyer to use your top secret manufacturing methods and also make much better products. That's all very interesting, especially because the product descriptions you link to are for the RL product. If you're not even going to tell the buyer how what they're buying is better, I don't see the point.

Any decent RPer will also recognize "classified", "top secret", and "advanced" technologies as nothing more than hand-waving. If you actually know why your products are so great, why don't you just post it on the thread? The fact that you'll only reveal your secrets privately and "in due time" is really quite telling.

[United Earthlings]

I realize that there's an OOC thread, but you seem to prefer posting in the other one.

Actually, I prefer any OCC comments to do with UEMS be brought here to keep others threads from being filled with what is essentially spam. I was only posting in the other one because that's where the conversation started, but as you can see I've been redirecting the conservation over here so that it continues in it's proper place.

That makes two of us. Many of your comments to DC were either extremely patronizing ("You understanding now what I’m getting at when I’m referring to market quality or do I need to explain further?") or just downright rude ("I'm sure there was a point you were trying to make in your statement above and therefore show I was using poor logic, but I'm sorry I'm just not seeing it, in fact from what I read").

That's why I wrote I don't know if it was his/her intent or not as intent doesn't translate well through the internet as those two comments of mine you pointed out clearly demonstrate. I wasn't attempting to be rude or patronizing, but in the end that's how I came off sounding to you, the same way DC came off sounding to me.

Yes, I did make numerous purchases from you when I first started RPing. At the time, no one had been kind enough to tell me the rules regarding RL products, and you certainly weren't going to as it would harm your sales. That was more than a year ago though, and some of us have improved our RPing in that time.

I'm sorry no one was kind enough to inform you of all the rules, however some of that is your own fault as in all things you have to take some initiative for yourself. No one told me the rules either when I first started, but I took some of my own initiative and for the first few days read as much as a could and by god after a few poorly done roleplays I was picking them up.

I actually did inform you or more to the point, point you in the direction you should go to gather more information. In fact I'd rather you had harmed my sales by knowing the rules, then have regret after all this time. The sales aren't that important to me, I'm just glad to hear you've learned the rules and have improved your roleplaying abilities. Maybe in the future we can do a roleplay together?

The moderators are hardly the only ones who can tell people how things work around here. More often than not, it's other players who are stepping up and telling newbies how things are done. If you want to use your lack of authority as an excuse to essentially run a scam (I don't know what else to call it when someone sells something that is available for free), good for you, but it's not a particularly convincing argument.

True and I have step up quite a bit in helping tons of new players coming into the nationstates world. However, as I said before it's not my job here on nationstates to go around educating every single new person that arrives at the Nationstates Forums on what all the rules and guidelines are. Besides, that's what the stickies are for and if more newbies would take the time to read through them like I did, I wouldn't have to be arguing over the same moot point for the hundredth time.

I also didn't appreciate having all my hard work being called a scam no matter what your implied intent was, you want to talk about being patronizing and rude, well that makes three of us now. So, welcome to the club my friend!

All you do in your rules is go on about how these aren't actually RL products, how they're much better, and how buying DPRs allows the buyer to use your top secret manufacturing methods and also make much better products. That's all very interesting, especially because the product descriptions you link to are for the RL product. If you're not even going to tell the buyer how what they're buying is better, I don't see the point.

Any decent RPer will also recognize "classified", "top secret", and "advanced" technologies as nothing more than hand-waving. If you actually know why your products are so great, why don't you just post it on the thread? The fact that you'll only reveal your secrets privately and "in due time" is really quite telling.

The first paragraph I have already addressed, the second one I covered for the most part already too except for the following...

Fine, then they'll recognize it as hand-waving, image their surprise when their preconceived assumptions are shattered. Poor things never even had a chance...

Some of which makes them unique I actually do post, however if I posted every single thing. I know that eventually it would be copied by a great many deal of people and then I wouldn't exactly be unique anymore now would I. That's why I choose to do it privately, as that's how it's done in the real world or did you miss the part where I stated I try to run UEMS as I would if it was a real life business. Real Life Business don't make everything public, especially if like UEMS their a private company.

Here's a fun exercise for you since you seem incapable of grasping what I'm trying to convey about intellectual property rights and how some things about them are kept "classified", Go Ahead and send an email or letter to the Coca-Cola Company headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia asking them if they could post on the internet or send you their exact formula for how they make their #1 product their known for: Coca-Cola soda. Let me know what their response is. I have a feeling it’s not what your expecting.

[Zinaire]

I'm sorry no one was kind enough to inform you of all the rules, however some of that is your own fault as in all things you have to take some initiative for yourself. No one told me the rules either when I first started, but I took some of my own initiative and for the first few days read as much as a could and by god after a few poorly done roleplays I was picking them up.

I was hardly a total idiot when I started RPing. At the very least, my first post was an embassy application, not a declaration of war. Sure, I didn't figure out the DPR thing for a couple months, but I don't think that warrants the lecture on having initiative.

I actually did inform you or more to the point, point you in the direction you should go to gather more information. In fact I'd rather you had harmed my sales by knowing the rules, then have regret after all this time. The sales aren't that important to me, I'm just glad to hear you've learned the rules and have improved your roleplaying abilities. Maybe in the future we can do a roleplay together?

I don't suppose you could find a link to that post, because I really don't remember that happening.

True and I have step up quite a bit in helping tons of new players coming into the nationstates world. However, as I said before it's not my job here on nationstates to go around educating every single new person that arrives at the Nationstates Forums on what all the rules and guidelines are. Besides, that's what the stickies are for and if more newbies would take the time to read through them like I did, I wouldn't have to be arguing over the same moot point for the hundredth time.

I just went through the stickies and found no mention of DPRs. Furthermore, it may not be your job, but it certainly smacks of profiteering that you don't tell people they already have the DPRs and that you continue to sell them. It also doesn't really make any sense that you can resell them. We all assume that RL companies grant us all DPRs, but I don't see why they would allow you to resell them.

I also didn't appreciate having all my hard work being called a scam no matter what your implied intent was, you want to talk about being patronizing and rude, well that makes three of us now. So, welcome to the club my friend!

Oh, I figured I joined the club a while ago. Really though, what would you call it if, say, someone came up to you outside the library and said you had to pay a cover charge (no pun intended)?

The first paragraph I have already addressed, the second one I covered for the most part already too except for the following...

Fine, then they'll recognize it as hand-waving, image their surprise when their preconceived assumptions are shattered. Poor things never even had a chance...

Your explanation for DC basically amounted to "I change the product in one of any number of possible ways, but it would take too long to actually say what I did." That's not exactly disproving my allegations of hand-waving. If you want constructive criticism, try this: sell fewer products and actually put some time into them.

Some of which makes them unique I actually do post, however if I posted every single thing. I know that eventually it would be copied by a great many deal of people and then I wouldn't exactly be unique anymore now would I. That's why I choose to do it privately, as that's how it's done in the real world or did you miss the part where I stated I try to run UEMS as I would if it was a real life business. Real Life Business don't make everything public, especially if like UEMS their a private company.

Here's a fun exercise for you since you seem incapable of grasping what I'm trying to convey about intellectual property rights and how some things about them are kept "classified", Go Ahead and send an email or letter to the Coca-Cola Company headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia asking them if they could post on the internet or send you their exact formula for how they make their #1 product their known for: Coca-Cola soda. Let me know what their response is. I have a feeling it’s not what your expecting.

You don't seem to be grasping that this is NS, and not the real world. On NS, people post information that would be secret in the real world all the time. Luckily, there's the concept of SIC. The player's OOC curiosity about why your products are so great is sated, and, ICly, the country has no actual knowledge. To be perfectly honest, the theft of products and such on here is pretty rare, and when it happens, it's easily dealt with. This is an OOC thread, so go ahead and tell us what exactly makes your M82 so special.

[United Earthlings]

I don't suppose you could find a link to that post, because I really don't remember that happening.

I just went through the stickies and found no mention of DPRs. Furthermore, it may not be your job, but it certainly smacks of profiteering that you don't tell people they already have the DPRs and that you continue to sell them. It also doesn't really make any sense that you can resell them. We all assume that RL companies grant us all DPRs, but I don't see why they would allow you to resell them.

You don't remember because I never stated that directly in a post, however it was stated in links, rules and regulations I did provide, but was upon you to read through. However, I now see that it wasn't clear enough so you'll be happy to know I'm going to fix that error of mine to make that ruling more apparent and precise.

Oh, I figured I joined the club a while ago. Really though, what would you call it if, say, someone came up to you outside the library and said you had to pay a cover charge (no pun intended)?

Depending if I believe they were legit or not, I'd ask how much. It wouldn't be the first time I had to pay to use what most people would consider a public service. I could site you 3 or 4 examples off the top of my head.

Your explanation for DC basically amounted to "I change the product in one of any number of possible ways, but it would take too long to actually say what I did." That's not exactly disproving my allegations of hand-waving. If you want constructive criticism, try this: sell fewer products and actually put some time into them.

Maybe, it's not disproving your allegations, but it's the truth. Hence why I stated in due time, as it would take me quite some time to compress all my ideas and thoughts into explaining in excreting detail all the little differences.

As for the constructive criticism, apparently my definition and your's are completely different. So, first I'm not going to sell fewer products because to be blunt that completely invalidates why I created the storefront in the first place. Second, how much time? I spend on average around twenty-four hours combined perfecting each custom design I post. I always thought that was quite an amount of time to spend, but I guess not according to you.

You don't seem to be grasping that this is NS, and not the real world. On NS, people post information that would be secret in the real world all the time. Luckily, there's the concept of SIC. The player's OOC curiosity about why your products are so great is sated, and, ICly, the country has no actual knowledge. To be perfectly honest, the theft of products and such on here is pretty rare, and when it happens, it's easily dealt with.

No, I grasp that concept quite well, thank you very much. I just choose to see more shades of grey then most people. Nationstates is connected through time and space to the real world, without which nationstates wouldn't exist period. I also try to bring some of that reality as much as possible to the nationstates worlds I roleplay in to create a more believable story in whatever alternate reality I happen to be creating. Also, I liked to thank you for the nice little lecture on the concept of SIC/IC/OCC on which I was already well versed. So, to be perfectly honest myself, I'm not overly concerned or worried about the theft of the products per say, I'm more focused on the concepts I have spent a great many hours pondering on how exactly are my final products different and in what capacity and what effect does this have on the final product. Sometimes very little is changed, sometimes the changes are massive. Listing all that for every single product times thousands of products is beyond my ability as a single human being. I might as well forget running the storefront, I could spend months, years typing all that out.

This is an OOC thread, so go ahead and tell us what exactly makes your M82 so special.

So, in simplistic terms, the basic elements and plastics that are used to forge the M82 into a usable weapon are held to the highest quality control possible and on a case by case base are sometimes altered to create a more perfect elemental building block on the subatomic level. By rearranging one proton, neutron or electron you can create entirely new elemental properties. Describing that in detail is not always the easiest thing to do and your asking me to do that for thousands of products. That's not a request one takes or makes lightly, so you'll forgive me if I appear to be hand-waving or scamming in your opinion to avoid what is essentiality a massive undertaking amount of work to satisfy the ego of a select few who could probably care less.

With all that stated above, I've heard your, for the most part not so useful ,complaints out and after pondering the matter over a night's rest, I have already decided on my course of action to take and as such I am now terminating this specific debate and moving on to better and brighter things.

In closing, If you have any comments or questions on any other part of the storefront besides DPRs and how they relate to UEMS at this time, feel free to post them. However, until further notice I will not be responding to any that concern DPRs, because that would be pointless as any post would become redundant after the changes I'm planning to make in due time to the way I conduct DPRs and the guidelines coving them.

[Exetonia]

Would you be willing to use my factbook as a way ofc looking at my economy. I refuse to subscribe to the idea of a 100% tax rate and have been working on a nation with a fixed population of around 1.5 billion. I'm hoping that my budget isn't way off and that it may entice you to look and god ooh, nice work, yes you may.

On that note, to any naytsayers, I know I can manufacture all these things I wish to purchase myself but, I don't want to pull the resources from other areas of my economy (automobile manufacture, mining etc) to do so. UEMS offers me a way of getting what I need without pulling the manual labour resources from elsewhere!

[United Earthlings]

Would you be willing to use my factbook as a way of looking at my economy. I refuse to subscribe to the idea of a 100% tax rate and have been working on a nation with a fixed population of around 1.5 billion. I'm hoping that my budget isn't way off and that it may entice you to look and god ooh, nice work, yes you may.

Ignoring the constant population growth issue for a moment, you do know there are NS issues that lower your tax rate right without affecting your current percent settings. However, that said while I find your question a little unusual, if your factbook lists your defense budget or something close to it [at the time of this writing I haven't look at it yet], then I'm fine with that. This way it better reflects your roleplay style and statics of your nation as they are used in those roleplays.

On that note, to any naytsayers, I know I can manufacture all these things I wish to purchase myself but, I don't want to pull the resources from other areas of my economy (automobile manufacture, mining etc) to do so. UEMS offers me a way of getting what I need without pulling the manual labour resources from elsewhere!

Finally someone who gets it, I knew one you had to exist out there somewhere on the interwebs. People so easily brush aside the supply or logistical side of economics.

[Trescott]

In response to to your first OOC post, i know it seems a little (if not totally) outrageous to order that many bombers, but having been consumed by a sense of protectiveness (and mild boredom), i couldn't resist the urge to stock up on those naval/airforces that i had been neglecting over the NS years. Regarding the threads, i would like to take a look at them and see if i can't sell anything back to you that i may or may not need, as to what the budget details are for my defense. For the most part, my nation (as i play it out) is a neutral/peaceful one, so i myself am confused at the fact as to why i'm stocking up on so many weapons. I guess i have a sense of trigger-happiness. Bang. Bang. Bang?

Regarding the order number, i thought this was my seventh purchase and decided to go to town. As the last order i made was tagged as #6. If i am mistaken... you may throw a pie at my face. Yes, a pie. I would preferably like the pie to be pumpkin pie or apple pie. They always have that nice natural ring to them... Anyways, TG/post me the links, and i'll get on them.

[United Earthlings]

In response to to your first OOC post, i know it seems a little (if not totally) outrageous to order that many bombers, but having been consumed by a sense of protectiveness (and mild boredom), i couldn't resist the urge to stock up on those naval/airforces that i had been neglecting over the NS years.

Doesn't seem outrageous, maybe a little impulsive or excessive, but not outrageous. There is a saying that I think fits perfectly with what your thinking and pretty much summed up my nation which is while I decided to make it the National Motto of my military. I get to that saying in a moment, but first...

For the most part, my nation (as i play it out) is a neutral/peaceful one, so i myself am confused at the fact as to why i'm stocking up on so many weapons. I guess i have a sense of trigger-happiness. Bang. Bang. Bang?

Well, my nation is completely neutral and has a long peaceful history of non-involvement and non-alignment with other nations resulting in our nation probably being the longest nation in history to have a de-facto isolationist policy. As to why you’re confused on why you suddenly purchased so many weapons. That saying I was mentioning should bring you clarity. There are a few slightly different translated versions, but basically it says.

In Latin: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

In English: If you would have Peace, be ready for war or put another way; If you wish for peace, prepare for war.

Regarding the order number, i thought this was my seventh purchase and decided to go to town. As the last order i made was tagged as #6. If i am mistaken... you may throw a pie at my face. Yes, a pie. I would preferably like the pie to be pumpkin pie or apple pie. They always have that nice natural ring to them...

You were right; it was the seventh and not the sixth, not to worry though I fixed the error of my ways. Good catch...

On a related note, even if you had been mistaken with all due respect your not even worthy enough for me to even consider wasting a perfectly good and divine pumpkin pie. To do so would be an insult to the pumpkin pie and only make this world a little bit sadder.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm a pumpkin pie aficionado. I would also highly advise you not to ask me where the best pumpkin pies can be had. You have been warned, Fail to heed my warning and it’s your blissful pumpkin pie funeral.

Anyways, TG/post me the links, and i'll get on them.

Edit: This is just a few samples I’ve come across to show the costs of maintenance and support for military equipment. The fact of the matter is, most of the stuff I’ve gathered came from books and articles I’ve read over the years, making finding links for them almost impossible.

Quick Note: The first two links I’m going to post come from just one of the many government Think Tanks that exist in the world, this one just happens to be called “RAND”. Now, before you sit down to read through what they call monographs, I would highly advise you to come at it when you have some free time to expended and a clear head, because it is not light reading. Due to the writers having either been ex-military and/or having strong ties to the military and defense industry, just like the military their love of using acronyms no’s no bounds. Now, since RAND is a US government Think Tank, they focus mostly on US issues. However, the RAND articles also have a nice bibliography section to direct you in other directions that discuss similar issues.

Contractor Logistics Support in the U.S. Air Force, Why Has the Cost of Fixed-Wing Aircraft Risen?: A Macroscopic Examination of the Trends in U.S. Military Aircraft Costs over the Past Several Decades.

Some additional links from one of the websites I visit that focuses on defense purchases. Support & Maintenance1, Support & Maintenance2, Support & Maintenance3 and Support & Maintenance4.

These links at the least should get you started…

[Merusainia]

hello I am the dictator of merusainia and after the last war i have been thinking even though it was minimal damage with only a few tanks bunkers and men but i still think we need a affordable atomatic grenade launcher so i would like to purchase 100 ags-30 graneade launchers and the autherization to reproduce them
please reply


Sinceraly,

Mostal Mart

[United Earthlings]

hello I am the dictator of merusainia and after the last war i have been thinking even though it was minimal damage with only a few tanks bunkers and men but i still think we need a affordable atomatic grenade launcher so i would like to purchase 100 ags-30 graneade launchers and the autherization to reproduce them
please reply


Sinceraly,

Mostal Mart

I'm sorry, but you have the wrong thread, this is the OCC thread for anything you wish to post that is OCC or Out of Character. Order purchases are IC or In Character and should be posted here.

Thank You...

[Hogusholand]

Hey UEMS

I had Hogusho as a country but with no inlog code so all of a sudden i couldn't log in anymore therefore I made Hogusholand

[Hogusholand]

OCC You don;t have the german Puma IFV ??

[United Earthlings]

OCC You don;t have the german Puma IFV ??

Not at the moment, but as I said in the main storefront thread, I'm planning on adding it either tomorrow on Monday.

[Archridge]

1. PU-239 fission devices of 0.1 kT to 20-kT yields
Use: suitable for lightweight Nuclear Artillery shells and short-range tactical missile warheads
Price: $300 million USD per warhead or multi-warheads up to 20 kT.

What size artillery round would be used for 0.1-1kt warheads? also is the price the same on all warheads regardless of size in each class?

[Platinea]

Which Gripen do you offer - JAS 39A/B, C/D, or Gripen-NG?
Which Mirage 2000 do you offer - Mirage 2000B/C, Mirage 2000D/N, Mirage 2000-5, or Mirage 2000-9?
What radar & engine does your Tejas use?
Why are you selling Atago-class destroyers at the same price as the Kongo-class destroyers they were scaled up from?
Why don't you sell Exocet Block 3?
Which AGM-84 model do you sell - AGM-84A, AGM-84C Block 1B, AGM-84D Block 1C, AGM-84E SLAM, AGM-84G Block 1G, AGM-84H SLAM-ER, or AGM-84K improved SLAM-ER?
Which AIM-120 do you sell - AIM-120A, AIM-120B, AIM-120C, or AIM-120D?

[United Earthlings]

What size artillery round would be used for 0.1-1kt warheads? also is the price the same on all warheads regardless of size in each class?

Well that depends on the size of the warhead in question and its yield output. During the early days of the Cold War when nuclear artillery was more prolific, most nuclear artillery was limited to missiles and to 152mm [Russian], 155mm and 203mm [NATO] and larger guns. However, with the miniaturization nuclear weapons have undergone in the past few decades its theoretical possible today that 105mm or 122mm guns could fire nuclear artillery shells though outfitting those weapons to fire nuclear shells would be prohibitively expensive and not very cost effective to use. Just for two comparisons here’s what the real life nations produced during the Cold War-See Article

Verses what I created for use with my nation in that that smallest nuclear capable artillery shell is 155mm for ground forces and 12in, 15in, 16in and 18in naval guns.

Yes, the price is the same for all warheads regards of size in their respective weight classes. From the one you quoted, you could have as many warheads as you wanted as long as they didn't combined exceed the 20kT limit.