The Bluewell Conflict [OOC|MT|CLOSED]

[Phenyzia]

Anyway, Phenyzia, could you please give me some idea of the disposition of forces about thirty minutes into the fighting? Then I'll be able to describe the Ausitorian skirmishing.

Well, as I said the initial push consists of several small squads of twelve (Ten regular gunners, one officer, and one AT-soldier) with three civilian human shields per squad. They'd be followed up by a Battalion of around ~400 men usually with a single light tank (The Raptor-II you encountered in Nvyarcy before) or no vehicle at all (And again a few human shields, probably around ten to twenty), the flanks and back of each battalion are usually secured by another small squad.

Along the frontlines you'd probably be seeing Phenyzian troops escorting or publicly executing large amounts of prisoners to provoke the local defenders (Which would include the death traps I mentioned being set up by larger groups). That and the urban warfare and Phenyzian troops digging in between rubble as one might expect.

[The Grand World Order]

Just regarding my upcoming post - what's Ralkovia's policy on drones/aerospacecraft/flying boats/USVs/etc. buzzing around their ships? Because Ausitoria is in the habit of buzzing the entire Ocean's surfaces beyond the EEZ limit (which is at most 20 trillion square kilometers by my estimation - which means Ausitoria has, 24/7/365, one "buzzer" every thousand kilometers, most of them scanning the ocean's surface at a few hundred kilometers per hour). So unless Ralkovia was taking exceptional measures, Ausitoria would probably have been able to track them from wherever they started from - which would (?) reveal that they were (mostly) Ralkovian?

Not really. You're talking about an environment with tens, if not hundreds of thousands (possibly even millions, I really wouldn't be surprised) of ships from nearly every nation in the world moving for equally countless different purposes. Even if they are military, there's no way to tell where they're going and why based on MASINT and ELINT alone, and depending on the vessels' behavior, verifying their nationality could require actually visually observing them. There's behaviors that make ships stand out (parking in the open ocean for no reason, usage of known military RADAR and comm signals, launching aircraft, sailing in certain formations, straying off of commonly used routes), and RADAR helps highlight these behaviors, but solidly identifying a ship based on a low-resolution SS RADAR is simply not going to happen unless you're picking up a Lyran Longsword or something of a similar size and role. You absolutely -will not- RORSAT a positive ID.

The Chinese don't find out that the US Navy is coming by because of their RADAR, though they use it to track them once they've found them. They find it out because sailors keep blabbing about their deployments on things like Facebook.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Any ship is likely to have been tracked by Ausitorian surveillance for at least the past twelve months, with gaps of only thirty minutes at a time; and any ships which has ever done anything unusual for more than fifteen minutes which can be identified from the air is likely to have been seen by an Ausitorian to have done whatever it was. (It is not impossible to survey 20 trillion square kilometers of ocean at that frequency - and Ausitoria, being a bit paranoid, and having the required equipment, would definitely do it). Of course that does not mean ships can be definitely identified if they are disguised or stealthed, but a large body of circumstantial evidence can be built. And of course I'm not counting submarine and flying boat sonar surveillance.

Ralkovia would most certainly shoot them down, even those outside it's EEZ.

At what altitude can the interception be conducted, and at what speed? Spy planes can be rather fast and fly rather high - the SR-71 simply outran thousands of missiles; and Ausitoria has improved on it.

As for Ralkovian positions, if they are actually being used for slaving, they can also be determined by economic analysis of slave markets and the movements and actions of other powers - indirect observance, which is an area an entire department of the Ausitorian Ministry of Intelligence and Statistics is devoted too.

Anyway, Phenyzia, could you please give me some idea of the disposition of forces about thirty minutes into the fighting? Then I'll be able to describe the Ausitorian skirmishing.

Well, as I said the initial push consists of several small squads of twelve (Ten regular gunners, one officer, and one AT-soldier) with three civilian human shields per squad. They'd be followed up by a Battalion of around ~400 men usually with a single light tank (The Raptor-II you encountered in Nvyarcy before) or no vehicle at all (And again a few human shields, probably around ten to twenty), the flanks and back of each battalion are usually secured by another small squad.

Along the frontlines you'd probably be seeing Phenyzian troops escorting or publicly executing large amounts of prisoners to provoke the local defenders (Which would include the death traps I mentioned being set up by larger groups). That and the urban warfare and Phenyzian troops digging in between rubble as one might expect.

Thank you. I'll add to that post later today then. By the way, am I right in thinking that the Raptor II, being so very light; is less well armoured in some direction(s), and if so, which direction(s) would that be?

[Phenyzia]

Thank you. I'll add to that post later today then. By the way, am I right in thinking that the Raptor II, being so very light; is less well armoured in some direction(s), and if so, which direction(s) would that be?

Indeed it's primarily a fast and nimble light tank not suited for actual tank combat, to give an idea of how light it is armored:

Front: 40mm
Sides: 20mm + 5mm sideskirts
Back: 15mm

It DOES come with a Phenyzian copy of the Trophy APS though.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Any ship is likely to have been tracked by Ausitorian surveillance for at least the past twelve months, with gaps of only thirty minutes at a time; and any ships which has ever done anything unusual for more than fifteen minutes which can be identified from the air is likely to have been seen by an Ausitorian to have done whatever it was. (It is not impossible to survey 20 trillion square kilometers of ocean at that frequency - and Ausitoria, being a bit paranoid, and having the required equipment, would definitely do it). Of course that does not mean ships can be definitely identified if they are disguised or stealthed, but a large body of circumstantial evidence can be built. And of course I'm not counting submarine and flying boat sonar surveillance.

Again, the problem you run into is that there are entire regions where you would not be able to get a drone in, gholgoth, tyrrhenia, and most other regions would shoot them down without a second of hesitation. Additionally, the sheer number of drones required, while not impossible would certainly be a massive logistical task that would take at least tens of billions to trillions of dollars. However, logistics and cost aside, because this is NS, your drones would either need to be solar powered to keep them aloft over vast areas where you couldn't refuel, meaning they'd be quite slow; or you'd need hundreds of thousands of refueling stations and your drones would have to tether for refueling, meaning they'd likely have to travel to a central hub as the cost of a refueling station per every drone would literally be in the tens of trillions; though this being NS, you could likely get away with it.

Regardless, the fact would be you wouldn't readily be able to identify origin of ships. Especially for a nation like mine, which takes exceptional measures out of necessity. Again, one has to understand, all Ralkovian naval ships operate under the principle that someone will actively be trying to surveil them for targeting and attack, and that they should take all measures to prevent identification.

Simply put, you'd know that there existed 80 warships on your periphery, you wouldn't know origin, or identity.

Ralkovia would most certainly shoot them down, even those outside it's EEZ.

At what altitude can the interception be conducted, and at what speed? Spy planes can be rather fast and fly rather high - the SR-71 simply outran thousands of missiles; and Ausitoria has improved on it.

As for Ralkovian positions, if they are actually being used for slaving, they can also be determined by economic analysis of slave markets and the movements and actions of other powers - indirect observance, which is an area an entire department of the Ausitorian Ministry of Intelligence and Statistics is devoted too.

Considering, Ralkovia and it's colonies utilize OTH, High-Alt Radar, Satellite, etc. etc. I'd likely be able to intercept at all altitudes, including sub-orbit. Tyrrhenia as a region, also shares this same intel, the second a drone came into the regions waters it would be identified, asked to leave(because we likely wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and a plane at that size and altitude), and then blow apart. If Ralkovia doesn't shoot down your drones, you can rest assured that Cukarica, Fictions, GWO, or someone else would. At that point, it wouldn't really matter speed either. You'd be able to outrun most missiles in the regional arsenal for sure, though I do possess Mach 4 missiles, but you're drone would long run out of fuel before it even got near Ralkovia.

I'm indeed flattered the Ausitorians would have an entire department dedicated to Ralkovian slave trade. And that would honestly be a good bet for identification of the ships. The L-Ships that I use are rather easily identifiable. However, Ralkovia hasn't deployed slaving ships, which would be used when we brought an area under our control. It just brought along a brigade of Ministry of Special Labor "Collectors." Though, you could very well get some circumstantial evidence that you might need. Ralkovian slave routes would actively be a lot slower in the immediate area, if 5000 security personnel were deployed somewhere else.

I really wouldn't worry about identifying the Ralkovian fleet at this point either, my next 2 posts will likely reveal for you that I'm here.

First, I'm going to be entering the theater, and second the fleet is going to be coming together. UWO's fleet is already on it's way. And I still need to give aid to Phenyzia before his army gets capped.

[The Grand World Order]

Any ship is likely to have been tracked by Ausitorian surveillance for at least the past twelve months, with gaps of only thirty minutes at a time; and any ships which has ever done anything unusual for more than fifteen minutes which can be identified from the air is likely to have been seen by an Ausitorian to have done whatever it was. [/quote]

so you're telling me you're tracking every ship in NS, ever, with only 30 minute intelligence gaps?

(It is not impossible to survey 20 trillion square kilometers of ocean at that frequency - and Ausitoria, being a bit paranoid, and having the required equipment, would definitely do it)

it literally is, though

You have 20 -billion- sensors wandering the seas if you crunch the numbers. That alone would wipe out a serious chunk of -my- military budget, but let's presume you can afford it

That's 20 billion sensors that you're going to have to have analysts rifle through and QC, which is a painstaking process (I know this from doing it in RL), which you don't even have the population for let alone number of IMINT/ELINT analysts

naval combat is like trying to play football when the entire audience is on the field with you, the stadium lights are off, and everyone's got flashlights and laser pointers

Now, granted, you can make a map and have low-frequency EW/CS/SS RADARs give you enough information to throw a bunch of dots on it to say, "Hey, there's a ship here," and differentiate between something on the surface and something in the air, but those kinds of RADARs by necessity aren't high resolution enough to give you much else

Now, lets look at the data transmission, you've got 20 billion sensors with apparently high-res RADARs, each trying to stream gigabyte-level feeds wirelessly to your network- good luck miracling the bandwidth to handle that.

Finally, you need enough personnel and facilities to maintain the (emphasis: 20 billion) drones. If they're high-res RADARs, you're absolutely not going to afford just letting them die and crash in the ocean, both because they're now incredibly expensive, and because that leaves your high-res RADAR technology out in the open for anyone with a spectrum analyzer and a boat to scoop up.


Naval surveillance is not impossible and you absolutely -can- keep an eye on all the oceans. However, the larger the area being watched, the less information you're going to get about individual results. That's the nature of observation. It takes good analysts who've known the baseline for years to make use of large-scale low-detail reporting. Notice how in my post, I actually am having to send air assets to positively confirm Vikden's ships because I ICly have no idea who or what exactly they are, only that they're disrupting the baseline and they're worth spending some fuel to peek at.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

To my mind, your figures are very inefficient (undoubtedly atmosphere-bound), so I shall have to show you what I mean. Sorry for not being clearer earlier - I was really referring to two different types of survey.

With 20 trillion square kilometres; let us assign a hundred million square kilometres to every platform, i.e. a box about 10,000 kilometers across. Two half-boxes can be surveyed every hour given a hypersonic platform speed, and sensors with a 3000 km range.

Therefore one needs 200,000 platforms – not 20 billion. That is a great deal more manageable, especially given that the Ausitorian High Altitude Force has almost nothing else to practice doing. I should mention that most of these craft fly at an altitude of over 90 kilometers; no doubt those flying over unfriendly regions would maintain an altitude of slightly over 100 km, to be counted as spacecraft. I greatly doubt regions are in the habit of shooting down spacecraft that fly overhead - that would provoke retribution, and before we knew it, Kessler Syndrome.

So much for high altitude observation, allowing individual ships to be tracked with some certainty. Now let us consider what Ausitoria would do with high resolution radars in the vicinity of its coasts, fleets, and several hundred other locations of interest with funny signals, human intelligence, or military/any other funny behaviour, e.g. about a hundred locations with L ships or an unusual shift in spot prices for slaves. (Ralkovia gets assigned about a tenth of the Ausitorian Observation Capacity).

Here we have a much more sensible range to consider. If we draw a radius of about 3000 km around these interesting locations, covering in total perhaps a hundred billion square kilometres, and we can use much smaller boxes and subsonic speeds – a thousand kilometres across. Therefore we need 10,000 platforms (or a mixture with a larger number of less capable platforms) – which is again hardly very difficult for a sizeable armed force which also has virtually nothing else to do and about a thousand carriers (including drone carriers) to operate from.

This ‘low-altitude’ survey, at a mere hundred thousand feet or so, may be expected to identify what these ships are and what they are actually up too.

Anyway, enough chit-chat. I am personally satisfied that Ausitoria would know that at least some of those ships have been at the locations-of-interest-which-are-probably-Ralkovian-bases. Therefore within an hour of these disparate groups coming within four thousand kilometres, the Ausitorian Navy would fly a number of drones (for positive identification) a few hundred kilometres ahead of various strike forces. Ralkovia, could you give me a map so I can add that to my post please?

[Pillowlandia]

Sorry for the lack of a post, havn't had time to sit down and write a decent post plus keep up with other threads. I'll be focusing more on this one for the next few days until I can get a post up. Likely sometime tomorrow morning or evening.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

To my mind, your figures are very inefficient (undoubtedly atmosphere-bound), so I shall have to show you what I mean. Sorry for not being clearer earlier - I was really referring to two different types of survey.

With 20 trillion square kilometres; let us assign a hundred million square kilometres to every platform, i.e. a box about 10,000 kilometers across. Two half-boxes can be surveyed every hour given a hypersonic platform speed, and sensors with a 3000 km range.

Therefore one needs 200,000 platforms – not 20 billion. That is a great deal more manageable, especially given that the Ausitorian High Altitude Force has almost nothing else to practice doing. I should mention that most of these craft fly at an altitude of over 90 kilometers; no doubt those flying over unfriendly regions would maintain an altitude of slightly over 100 km, to be counted as spacecraft. I greatly doubt regions are in the habit of shooting down spacecraft that fly overhead - that would provoke retribution, and before we knew it, Kessler Syndrome.

So much for high altitude observation, allowing individual ships to be tracked with some certainty. Now let us consider what Ausitoria would do with high resolution radars in the vicinity of its coasts, fleets, and several hundred other locations of interest with funny signals, human intelligence, or military/any other funny behaviour, e.g. about a hundred locations with L ships or an unusual shift in spot prices for slaves. (Ralkovia gets assigned about a tenth of the Ausitorian Observation Capacity).

Here we have a much more sensible range to consider. If we draw a radius of about 3000 km around these interesting locations, covering in total perhaps a hundred billion square kilometres, and we can use much smaller boxes and subsonic speeds – a thousand kilometres across. Therefore we need 10,000 platforms (or a mixture with a larger number of less capable platforms) – which is again hardly very difficult for a sizeable armed force which also has virtually nothing else to do and about a thousand carriers (including drone carriers) to operate from.

This ‘low-altitude’ survey, at a mere hundred thousand feet or so, may be expected to identify what these ships are and what they are actually up too.

Anyway, enough chit-chat. I am personally satisfied that Ausitoria would know that at least some of those ships have been at the locations-of-interest-which-are-probably-Ralkovian-bases. Therefore within an hour of these disparate groups coming within four thousand kilometres, the Ausitorian Navy would fly a number of drones (for positive identification) a few hundred kilometres ahead of various strike forces. Ralkovia, could you give me a map so I can add that to my post please?

Just so you know, Ralkovia doesn't care about retribution, considering it's a massive slaver state; it expects to be attacked. Most of the World is already pissed off at it. Ralkovia already has a widely known policy of shooting down any orbiting satellite that pass over it, high altitude recon drones would likely be an easier and cheaper target to hit.

What map?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Just so you know, Ralkovia doesn't care about retribution, considering it's a massive slaver state; it expects to be attacked. Most of the World is already pissed off at it. Ralkovia already has a widely known policy of shooting down any orbiting satellite that pass over it, high altitude recon drones would likely be an easier and cheaper target to hit.

No you don't - if you do, then Ralkovia doesn't have any satellites left anywhere at all, because Ausitoria would have destroyed them all several years ago in retribution. Ralkovia's policy is not widely known and you can't just shoot down people's possessions in territory you definitely don't OOCly control without RPing it.

What map?

A map - with Ralkovia's dispositions, please.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Just so you know, Ralkovia doesn't care about retribution, considering it's a massive slaver state; it expects to be attacked. Most of the World is already pissed off at it. Ralkovia already has a widely known policy of shooting down any orbiting satellite that pass over it, high altitude recon drones would likely be an easier and cheaper target to hit.

No you don't - if you do, then Ralkovia doesn't have any satellites left anywhere at all, because Ausitoria would have destroyed them all several years ago in retribution. Ralkovia's policy is not widely known and you can't just shoot down people's possessions in territory you definitely don't OOCly control without RPing it.

Actually, I could completely do that and Ralkovia would have subsequently invaded Ausitoria if it did respond in that way. Not to mention, Parthian and Scandinvan satellite arrays work in coexistence with Ralkovia's, so you have 3x the assets coordinating to protect those three nations, and shooting down any one of our satellites would likely result in a triple invasion. Ralkovia's policy of shooting down surveillance satellites that orbit over it is widely known and I very well could. Ralkovian "airspace" continues for 3000km vertical(and any satellite that it detects shooting high-res satellite. Though, Ralkovia rarely exercises protection of it's airspace for things like satellites), it's EEZ on the East is 3000km. You fail to realize Ralkovia is a rogue state, it doesn't abide by any WA laws or any common conventions, except it's own, enforced by the Ralkovian Military.

It's not g-dmodding, it's not OOCly controlling territory that is not mine, ICly the second we detect a satellite using high-res radar on the mainland, we blast it. If you have a high-res surveillance satellite over Ralkovia, it will have been shot down. We can always RP it if you'd like, but as far as Ralkovia is concerned any attempt to surveil the mainland is considered a hostile action and it'd be pretty apparent why. I can pull a number of nations to vouch that this is the Ralkovian policy for sometime now.

One of course has to understand that I'm not OOCly being a dick. I've had twenty three attempted invasions by actual nations and coalitions in my NS history, for Ralkovia, secrecy is survival and such policies come out of necessity. Any nation snooping in the mainland is considered a strategic threat to Ralkovian control and dealt with accordingly. Ralkovia would justify such attacks in the belief that your nation would be highly unlikely to launch retribution considering that #1 your nation would be attempting to surveil another, regardless of Ralkovia's morality, it would effectively make you an aggressor #2 Such conflict by your own policy would result in nuclear destruction of both our nations #3 The Kessler Syndrome would destroy thousands of neutral and allied nations satellites. Ralkovia doesn't have anything to lose, while you effectively would have a lot. Most nations have to abide by a similar principle, meaning that the number of nations that would risk sending surveillance satellites over the Ralkovian mainland would be very few.

Still, you can have as many low-res sats as your heart desires.

That being said, a very select few nations could get away with it. Lamoni, Lyras, etc. You could always likely approach them for data. Lamoni actually operates a military base right outside Ralkovia.

What map?

A map - with Ralkovia's dispositions, please.

Sure? I'll be posting this weekend. I mean again, you're dealing with disparate fleet elements. So if I drew a map, it'd be a big blue thing with spread out ships, minus of course The Madness. Actually, if anything, you could likely identify that ship as Ralkovian right off the bat.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

No you don't - if you do, then Ralkovia doesn't have any satellites left anywhere at all, because Ausitoria would have destroyed them all several years ago in retribution. Ralkovia's policy is not widely known and you can't just shoot down people's possessions in territory you definitely don't OOCly control without RPing it.

Actually, I could completely do that and Ralkovia would have subsequently invaded Ausitoria if it did respond in that way.

No you can't, and I can see we would need to set an RP three years ago to resolve the question. However, you are aware, no doubt; that most countries keep nuclear weapons as a last resort; so if you really did invade, both our nations should by now be radioactive ash.

However it is not my policy to RP past events of such enormous significance - it would require me to retcon years of work. Therefore Ralkovia can shoot down Ausitoria's satellites now, not at all, or in the future. I should point out that sattelites pass all over the world (see example) and your supposed policy would disrupt every non-geostationary satellite orbit in existence, and every space shuttle or other maneuvering vehicle as well, so it is absurdly unrealistic.

But be that as it may, you have not shot down Ausitoria's satellites in the past as you haven't RPed it.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Actually, I could completely do that and Ralkovia would have subsequently invaded Ausitoria if it did respond in that way.

No you can't, and I can see we would need to set an RP three years ago to resolve the question. However, you are aware, no doubt; that most countries keep nuclear weapons as a last resort; so if you really did invade, both our nations should by now be radioactive ash.

However it is not my policy to RP past events of such enormous significance - it would require me to retcon years of work. Therefore Ralkovia can shoot down Ausitoria's satellites now, not at all, or in the future. I should point out that sattelites pass all over the world (see example) and your supposed policy would disrupt every non-geostationary satellite orbit in existence, and every space shuttle or other maneuvering vehicle as well, so it is absurdly unrealistic.

But be that as it may, you have not shot down Ausitoria's satellites in the past as you haven't RPed it.

Sure that works as a compromise, but understand I don't shoot down every non-geostationary satellite that passes over me, because that would be insane. I shoot down satellites using high-res radar on the Ralkovian Mainland and Drones in my airspace. Orbiting Ralkovia with a spy satellite is no bueno, but as I said before Lo-Res, Picture taking, etc. is allowed.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I'm still not entirely sure how you could differentiate, I'm decidedly unconvinced that Ralkovia would be able to shoot down some of Ausitoria's more defended/stealthy spacecraft, and I greatly doubt Ralkovia would shoot down manned spacecraft, as that would definitely lead to war. But by all means let us RP your decision after hostilities start.

Sure? I'll be posting this weekend. I mean again, you're dealing with disparate fleet elements. So if I drew a map, it'd be a big blue thing with spread out ships, minus of course The Madness. Actually, if anything, you could likely identify that ship as Ralkovian right off the bat.

Well, how many fleet elements are we talking about, and how are they distributed, and on what scale please? Because Ausitoria would almost certainly be launching this strike against some of them, but everything about the strike depends on what they're striking.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Thank you. I'll add to that post later today then. By the way, am I right in thinking that the Raptor II, being so very light; is less well armoured in some direction(s), and if so, which direction(s) would that be?

Indeed it's primarily a fast and nimble light tank not suited for actual tank combat, to give an idea of how light it is armored:

Front: 40mm
Sides: 20mm + 5mm sideskirts
Back: 15mm

It DOES come with a Phenyzian copy of the Trophy APS though.

Thank you. (How many rounds in the APS, by the way)?

Also I should mention I've finished my post with respect to Southcreek - just waiting on Ralkovia now for that theatre of the battle!

[The Unified Isles]

@Pillowlandia FYI, according to my last IC Post 11th Cavalry Division is still at Kach. They´ll defend the City.

[Pillowlandia]

@Pillowlandia FYI, according to my last IC Post 11th Cavalry Division is still at Kach. They´ll defend the City.

I am hopeing that the situation in Kach won't escalate, as that would open a whole other can of worms. I will keep that in mind though.

[Grande Republic of Arcadia]

@Pillowlandia FYI, according to my last IC Post 11th Cavalry Division is still at Kach. They´ll defend the City.

I am hopeing that the situation in Kach won't escalate, as that would open a whole other can of worms. I will keep that in mind though.

the 1st Cavalry and the 43rd Airborne battalion is also in the city, and how is the fighting in Southcreek?

[Pillowlandia]

very much urban warfare

[Grande Republic of Arcadia]

very much urban warfare

okay a GRA convoy is going to arrive soon

[Shazbotdom]

Ok. I really need to get another IC post up. Where are my men most needed?

[Pillowlandia]

I'd say to stop the fort St. John siege

[The Grand World Order]

I'm still not entirely sure how you could differentiate

high-res RADARs by necessity will have higher radio frequency rates and be non-scanning, where low-res will have lower frequency pulses as they propagate further

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I'm still not entirely sure how you could differentiate

high-res RADARs by necessity will have higher radio frequency rates and be non-scanning, where low-res will have lower frequency pulses as they propagate further

Why can't you have higher frequency and low-resolution or higher frequencies and scanning? And why can't you have high-resolution with multiple low-frequency craft? Or are you talking about very long wavelengths in the tens of meters?

(Feel free to be as technical as you like - even if I don't do much Physics nowadays, I should be able to keep up).

@Pillowlandia FYI, according to my last IC Post 11th Cavalry Division is still at Kach. They´ll defend the City.

Ausitoria's also got a Brigade there. What's going on there?

[Pillowlandia]

there were just BIA forces trying to enter the city. Speaking of the BIA, Vaander do you mind me escalating the situation with the BIA? Also just a tip, but you can use the align command to center an image (or anything really) Also, I really love the IBH that you're writing it's great.