2014 II rper of the year: hub thread

[Dreadful Sagittarius]

I'm not sure why people are upset. As that log shows, Delmonte tried to discourage people from nominating anyone he doesn't like, and has a long history of arguing that FT is awful as a whole simply because he has a petty feud with two people who roleplay in an FT setting.

Oh look Delmonte jumping to Vak's defense, big surprise there especially since you're the same guy that's mounted a smear campaign against the FTers nominated http://pastebin.com/nvVtSDJC. And with FTers stacked against each other in the opening rounds there are going to be less of them in the later rounds since you know, they were matched against each other in the opening. Also Kyle won last year not Azura.

Wait... what's that at the bottom of the log? So is this evidence of the attempt on the part of FTers to all vote for Kyrusia just to spite me? If you stipulate the authenticity of this log, which you do given that you posted it, wouldn't that mean that... The FTers, nominally Kyrusia, are trying to rig it? That's what the log says.

And also...it says Sanc. Feel free to pop onto Sanc and see the people who regularly hang out there, because I can guarantee that most of them probably haven't even bothered posting in this contest, be it to vote or nominate.

Why didn't I tell someone? I did, look.

You've admitted that you knew of this attempt to rig the contest in a fellow Mentor's favor. Now, the question is: Did you report it to the proper authorities, i.e. either Jenrak or Vakolic.

Vakolic, what was the first that you heard of this attempt to rig the contest that was under your stewardship?

I'm also curious as to Vakolic's thoughts on that log revealing that Delmonte sought to influence the nomination period. I think it's a shoddy example of behaviour from someone who's been with the site long enough to have basic respect for themselves, their fellows, and etiquette.

[Ghant]

That's what we were trying to do. It's a shame that a couple bad apples can spoil the bunch. However, on the bright side (as Maltropia, who was there from the conspiracy's inception by his own admission, pointed out), they did lose. So perhaps this is the mark of a turning point in NationStates where activities such as those engaged in by Kyrusia, people in #Sanc, Vocenae, and with Maltropia's tacit consent will no longer pay. There's a silver lining in the back of the storm cloud.

If enough people focus on voting on who they think has done the best work in the past calendar year, then all this talk of rigging and these back room deals will be meaningless.

[The Black Plains]

You've admitted that you knew of this attempt to rig the contest in a fellow Mentor's favor. Now, the question is: Did you report it to the proper authorities, i.e. either Jenrak or Vakolic.

To what mentor do you refer? Kyrusia wasn't a Mentor when that conversation took place, and I'd forgotten about it until it was brought up in a PM on IRC earlier today.

To Kyrusia, obviously. Which raises another question. You forgot all about that conversation while Kyrusia was being made a Mentor? How odd. You see, had I known that someone had tried to rig a Role Playing contest, I would have maybe brought that up if someone recommended that they be made a Role Playing Mentor. But you've made it very clear (purposefully clear, even) that you forgot all about this until just now.

I'm not sure why people are upset. As that log shows, Delmonte tried to discourage people from nominating anyone he doesn't like, and has a long history of arguing that FT is awful as a whole simply because he has a petty feud with two people who roleplay in an FT setting.

Wait... what's that at the bottom of the log? So is this evidence of the attempt on the part of FTers to all vote for Kyrusia just to spite me? If you stipulate the authenticity of this log, which you do given that you posted it, wouldn't that mean that... The FTers, nominally Kyrusia, are trying to rig it? That's what the log says.

And also...it says Sanc. Feel free to pop onto Sanc and see the people who regularly hang out there, because I can guarantee that most of them probably haven't even bothered posting in this contest, be it to vote or nominate.

You've admitted that you knew of this attempt to rig the contest in a fellow Mentor's favor. Now, the question is: Did you report it to the proper authorities, i.e. either Jenrak or Vakolic.

Vakolic, what was the first that you heard of this attempt to rig the contest that was under your stewardship?

I'm also curious as to Vakolic's thoughts on that log revealing that Delmonte sought to influence the nomination period. I think it's a shoddy example of behaviour from someone who's been with the site long enough to have basic respect for themselves, their fellows, and etiquette.

Please point to that in the log. I'm assuming it comes before the part where we learn that Kyrusia, presumably a large plurality if not the majority of #Sanc (if the log is to be believed), and God knows who else are planning to rig the election? So you're saying Delmonte subtly encouraging players (read the log, you have to delve deep to find this) to not nominate certain people should be dealt with while we put the people saying "Hey guys, let's rig the contest!" On the back burner?

[The greater Vakolicci Haven]

Everyone

This argument ends precisely here. Now.

If you want to argue about how this contest went, take it to IRC. I am atempting to run a clean and fair contest here, and I don't want it spoilt by arguments. If people have a concern regarding another player, either tg me, add me on skype (jamesenglish97), or call my skype non-personal phone number which I'll happily give out if people really want a vocal chat/argument.

I'm not here to sit around and atempt to be the moderator of a intensely heated argument that is threatening to prevent this contest from being a success. I am here to ensure that this contest shall become a success, and I am determined to make that a reality.

And now, on with your regularly scheduled programing. Tiami VS Tagmatium will be up soon. Delmonte VS Azura will be up slightly later, as I don't have a rellevent posting example from Azura tged to me. If anyone wants to help me out by providing one, I'd be happy to accept it.

-Vak

[Tiami]

http://pastebin.com/J2rrrGeP
Figured I'd post this here.

From the looks of it, Delmonte is showing poor sportsmanship, as is Crontor.

"But if you vote for me, Crontor and I won't ask people to vote against you." <<< This goes further in saying that if I don't vote for Delmonte, then there will be a campaign against me. If this is not blackmail/extortion, then I don't know what is. It's evidently clear that threatening another player to gain votes should be addressed.

I thought this competition was supposed to be clean? It appears that I was wrong.

[Delmonte]

http://pastebin.com/J2rrrGeP
Figured I'd post this here.

From the looks of it, Delmonte is showing poor sportsmanship, as is Crontor.

"But if you vote for me, Crontor and I won't ask people to vote against you." <<< This goes further in saying that if I don't vote for Delmonte, then there will be a campaign against me. If this is not blackmail/extortion, then I don't know what is. It's evidently clear that threatening another player should be addressed.

Wait... this is from minutes ago by the time stamps. I'm not on the IRC right now. Dude, I use the nick "Delmonte" not "Delmonte1". It's even in the other logs. My nick "Delmonte" is identified. Clearly whoever this other "Delmonte1" was, they figured that out after they got kicked off of that nick and resorted to "Delmonte1". Why should I believe that this is not an intentional forgery? Do you have anyone else to verify this?

[Tiami]

http://pastebin.com/J2rrrGeP
Figured I'd post this here.

From the looks of it, Delmonte is showing poor sportsmanship, as is Crontor.

"But if you vote for me, Crontor and I won't ask people to vote against you." <<< This goes further in saying that if I don't vote for Delmonte, then there will be a campaign against me. If this is not blackmail/extortion, then I don't know what is. It's evidently clear that threatening another player should be addressed.

Wait... this is from minutes ago by the time stamps. I'm not on the IRC right now. Dude, I use the nick "Delmonte" not "Delmonte1". It's even in the other logs. My nick "Delmonte" is identified. Clearly whoever this other "Delmonte1" was, they figured that out after they got kicked off of that nick and resorted to "Delmonte1". Why should I believe that this is not an intentional forgery? Do you have anyone else to verify this?

http://pastebin.com/E1SNu0Up
I was getting the same IP from both, so I can't do much.

It's blatantly clear that your changed your nick.

Anyway, it's evidently clear that this competition should be halted, or re-held. Too much corruption.

[Delmonte]

Wait... this is from minutes ago by the time stamps. I'm not on the IRC right now. Dude, I use the nick "Delmonte" not "Delmonte1". It's even in the other logs. My nick "Delmonte" is identified. Clearly whoever this other "Delmonte1" was, they figured that out after they got kicked off of that nick and resorted to "Delmonte1". Why should I believe that this is not an intentional forgery? Do you have anyone else to verify this?

http://pastebin.com/E1SNu0Up
I was getting the same IP from both, so I can't do much.

It's blatantly clear that your changed your nick.

Anyway, it's evidently clear that this competition should be halted, or re-held. Too much corruption.

Can I see records of that? Because I've been shown actual logs where I (Delmonte) had one IP BEFORE YOU BANNED ME FROM THE CHANNEL and then Delmonte1 (who logged on afterward) had a different IP.

[Maltropia]

I just typed /whowas Delmonte and /whowas Delmonte1 into IRC and got the same IPs for both of them. I dunno what you're trying to pull here, Delmonte, but it seems awfully disingenuous.

EDIT: Removed the link again because it has your IP in it.

[Crontor]

black·mail
ˈblakˌmāl/Submit
noun
1.
the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person.

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSHən/Submit
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

I fail to see how either of these apply. This is a vote. During a vote, an effort is made to get voters to vote. To do this, people campaign. Campaigns advocate for certain candidates over others. I fail to see how advocating for certain candidates equates to 'poor sportsmanship', but please enlighten me if this is the case.

[Delmonte]

You know what, I can't do this. It was me. When I found out that there were people plotting against me, I felt that I had to resort to the same tactics to have a chance. But I just can't do it. I did approach Tiami in that way and I did have that conversation and it was wrong of me. I was engaging in the same form of corruption that Kyrusia and his friends engaged in.

I would like to apologize to some of the people I have offended by dipping my toe into this murky, bottomless pool.

Tiami: It was wrong of me. I meant what I said in those logs. I admire you and I admire your writing. I was originally joking when I approached you, as I said in the logs, but at the chance to get a new vote I mis-stepped and crossed the line. I'm sorry for insulting you in that way.

Sondria: I'm sorry for feeling the need to do exactly what those who were out to get us did. In this way I betrayed you and I am ashamed for it.

Everyone: When Tiami decided to go public with what I said, which was unquestionably the right thing of him to do, I panicked and briefly denied involvement. This was wrong of me.

I'd also like to apologize to each person who nominated me. I went into this intent on doing you proud and running a clean race. I failed in that regard in the last hour. For this I apologize.

What I did was wrong. I admit that. At this point, resigning would be an escape. I'll take any further blows as they come. My conduct in this regard has earned them. Be certain, though, that I have learned my lesson and will never engage in any such behavior in the future, regardless of whether or not I feel pressured to do so by my competition.

While I did not engage in blackmail, I did engage in quid pro quo behavior; Offering a "this for that". I don't think I'm the first person to do this (Thoricia's logs are evidence of that), but I should never have stooped to their level to begin with. And for that I am very, very sorry.

[Tiami]

You know what, I can't do this. It was me. When I found out that there were people plotting against me, I felt that I had to resort to the same tactics to have a chance. But I just can't do it. I did approach Tiami in that way and I did have that conversation and it was wrong of me. I was engaging in the same form of corruption that Kyrusia and his friends engaged in.

I would like to apologize to some of the people I have offended by dipping my toe into this murky, bottomless pool.

Tiami: It was wrong of me. I meant what I said in those logs. I admire you and I admire your writing. I was originally joking when I approached you, as I said in the logs, but at the chance to get a new vote I mis-stepped and crossed the line. I'm sorry for insulting you in that way.

Sondria: I'm sorry for feeling the need to do exactly what those who were out to get us did. In this way I betrayed you and I am ashamed for it.

Everyone: When Tiami decided to go public with what I said, which was unquestionably the right thing of him to do, I panicked and briefly denied involvement. This was wrong of me.

I'd also like to apologize to each person who nominated me. I went into this intent on doing you proud and running a clean race. I failed in that regard in the last hour. For this I apologize.

What I did was wrong. I admit that. At this point, resigning would be an escape. I'll take any further blows as they come. My conduct in this regard has earned them. Be certain, though, that I have learned my lesson and will never engage in any such behavior in the future, regardless of whether or not I feel pressured to do so by my competition.

While I did not engage in blackmail, I did engage in quid pro quo behavior; Offering a "this for that". I don't think I'm the first person to do this (Thoricia's logs are evidence of that), but I should never have stooped to their level to begin with. And for that I am very, very sorry.

It was extortion.

Nonetheless, thank you for the apology.
And to Crontor, I apologize to you as well. I had no way of proving if you were in it as well until Delmonte's announcement.

[Delmonte]

You know what, I can't do this. It was me. When I found out that there were people plotting against me, I felt that I had to resort to the same tactics to have a chance. But I just can't do it. I did approach Tiami in that way and I did have that conversation and it was wrong of me. I was engaging in the same form of corruption that Kyrusia and his friends engaged in.

I would like to apologize to some of the people I have offended by dipping my toe into this murky, bottomless pool.

Tiami: It was wrong of me. I meant what I said in those logs. I admire you and I admire your writing. I was originally joking when I approached you, as I said in the logs, but at the chance to get a new vote I mis-stepped and crossed the line. I'm sorry for insulting you in that way.

Sondria: I'm sorry for feeling the need to do exactly what those who were out to get us did. In this way I betrayed you and I am ashamed for it.

Everyone: When Tiami decided to go public with what I said, which was unquestionably the right thing of him to do, I panicked and briefly denied involvement. This was wrong of me.

I'd also like to apologize to each person who nominated me. I went into this intent on doing you proud and running a clean race. I failed in that regard in the last hour. For this I apologize.

What I did was wrong. I admit that. At this point, resigning would be an escape. I'll take any further blows as they come. My conduct in this regard has earned them. Be certain, though, that I have learned my lesson and will never engage in any such behavior in the future, regardless of whether or not I feel pressured to do so by my competition.

While I did not engage in blackmail, I did engage in quid pro quo behavior; Offering a "this for that". I don't think I'm the first person to do this (Thoricia's logs are evidence of that), but I should never have stooped to their level to begin with. And for that I am very, very sorry.

It was extortion.

Nonetheless, thank you for the apology.

Thank you for accepting it. And thank you for bringing this to the light of day. It was necessary and purgative.

[El Cuscatlan]

Because of what this competition is turning into, and using of cheating I decided to boycott this competition and withdraw myself totally. Have a nice day!

[The Nation of Ceneria]

Not sure if this got lost in a flood of TGs coming your way, Vakolicci. I am pretty darn sure that Valaran received the "enormously high threshold" of two nominations in the nominations thread, although I can't find the thread in order to back this up. I know that I voted for him, and I believe the other voter was The United Regions. He is an exceptional RPer, and I believe he should certainly be a part of this.

Thanks nonetheless!

[The Macabees]

Suggestion: out of fairness, if Ceneria is right, an easy solution would be to eject a player guilty of cheating and replace him/her with Valaran.

[Delmonte]

Suggestion: out of fairness, if Ceneria is right, an easy solution would be to eject a player guilty of cheating and replace him/her with Valaran.

Well Kyrusia's round is over so I guess that just leaves me. I'll gladly give him my position if it won't mess everything up. Even though I feel like voting against me would let a lot of people release some pent up aggression.

[Maltropia]

For the record, Kyrusia had no part whatsoever in the alleged vote-rigging. Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.

[Delmonte]

Removed.

[El Cuscatlan]

Suggestion: out of fairness, if Ceneria is right, an easy solution would be to eject a player guilty of cheating and replace him/her with Valaran.

Perhaps Valaran can replace me? I know him, he is great guy!

[Valaran]

Not sure if this got lost in a flood of TGs coming your way, Vakolicci. I am pretty darn sure that Valaran received the "enormously high threshold" of two nominations in the nominations thread, although I can't find the thread in order to back this up. I know that I voted for him, and I believe the other voter was The United Regions. He is an exceptional RPer, and I believe he should certainly be a part of this.

Thanks nonetheless!

Cen I appreciate that. I really do


But, I honestly don't believe that I'm of the calibre that Ghant or the others are. In fact, I didn't even know anyone had even voted for me at all. (so thanks for whoever did that ). And I'm sure many nations got much higher vote tallies than I did.

[Kyrusia]

Congratulations, Vipra! Glad to see a good friend of mine advance to the next set of rounds. (And anyone else who has progressed from the knock-out today.)

Given I have refrained from posting anywhere in this contest, spare in the initial nominations (to provide my support behind people I feel were worthy of the nominations) and to respond to official inquiries from the contest host (in telegram format), but have now been successfully knocked-out of the contest, I'd like to posit a question: What?

So, because a channel I happen to be now be a founder of (given quite some time ago, both Jenrak and the other successor's flags expired) - and am thus well-known there, and (presumably) liked to some degree - had several members who desired to vote for me, that amounts to some sort of corruption or conspiracy? Sorry. That doesn't fly, especially when you review the nature of the last time I suspected something potentially untoward was occurring: The 2013 Roleplayer of the Year Contest. A review of that thread will find that several people had nominated not only me, but all of my puppets; because of that, I actually withdrew from the contest through communication with Jenrak

Ultimately, this sort of behavior is part of the reason I have always been critical of this contest - regardless of whom hosted it. It, ultimately, devolves into a lobbying contest, which goes no where to demonstrate the validity of the nominee's talent, skill, or abilities as a writer nor a roleplayer. This is, also, ultimately, why I do not take these contests very seriously. I could, personally, care very little if I win.

As for lobbying for votes? Pointing people to the thread to vote does not constitute collusion to perform vote rigging anymore than telling an individual they should go to the polls does. Nor does asking the portion of the community one is a part of to be active in the contest. Friends, however, will generally vote with friends. This is how it has always been with these contests, and likely how it will always be - assuming they continue to be a thing. As such, and doing this in a public place, I'd like to request that in the future, any and all nominations I ever receive for a "Roleplayer of the Year" contest be considered null and void and would greatly appreciate it if individuals would cease nominating me for these things. I, intrinsically, feel that not only are the contests contradictory to the spirit of roleplaying, but result in an unnecessary conflict of interest now that I have a pleasantly minty jacket. Should I have withdrawn earlier because of that jacket and my position in this contest? Possibly, but given I would rather not cause drama and would rather not have drawn some sort of Out-of-Character conflict into Vak's threads, I refrained from doing so; I let the voters decide. Since it became rather evident yesterday that I would be knocked-out, I felt there was no need to bring this up - especially given the minty jacket and the nature of what an opinion of someone who happens to be a Mentor might be received as against such a contest.

But since I have been accused of everything short of outright sitting on someone's shoulder with a pitchfork, I feel it necessary. For that, Vak, I apologize; this should not have been approached in this thread in this manner, but unfortunately, it has been.

Once again, I'd like to congratulate Vipra; no matter how individuals have voted, he is a worthy competitor in any regard, and has both the posting history and a history within the community to prove it. To assume I have some nefarious desire to knock him out - someone I consider a friend and with whom someone I have, on numerous occasions, worked with for both personal enjoyment of NS and to provide assistance to newer players (both in a capacity as a Mentor and before) - is simply silly. Further, I would like to apologize to Vipra on the behalf of... Well, I guess no one, but I still feel it necessary to apologize because not only does this unnecessary drama cause problems, but I feel it places an unnecessary caveat in regards to Vipra's victory - one that should not exist, as he's talented enough to win without any further considerations.

Edit: As for accusations that myself or anyone else "runs FT"; please feel free to review my posting history. I am loathe to the concept of any player "running FT" just as I am to any player "running MT". The notion is simply not something that can occur; the history of players whom have attempted such is rather sordid - and resulted in at least one "Delete on Sight" order, ultimately. I have, on numerous occasions - both in the Advice and Assistance Thread and on various IRC channels - made it quite apparent that such is simply not done; FT is a community, and the community itself dictates its course.

[The greater Vakolicci Haven]

OK.

I don't want to see any more dirt braught up against either side of this little argument in this thread.
I am atempting to run a balanced competition here, and I am getting sick of people atempting to rig the votes in their own advantage. If people rig the votes to help a certain person, what does actually winning this contest mean?

Delmonte, I got rather sceptical of your point in this whole thing when I was being told again and again to close it as, just around the corner, lots of people were coming in to vote for Kyrusia at the last possible minute. And so I waited for them to so up, and closed the vote at the exact time it was supposed to end at. No surprise: noone showed.

Now, I'm quite prepared to let bygones be bygones in this argument. Noone will be expelled, noone will be punished, noone will be helped. I was going to start trusting people not to mess this up for everyone else, but I don't quite know how I can do that. Obviously, I can't keep an eye on every single IRC channel, so I'm prepared to let this slide considering it was only the first match.

Kyrusia, if their was a conspiracy against you, allow me to extend my appologies. Vipra, if their was a conspiracy to help you regardless of your writing, allow me to extend my condolences for a contest I am running devaluing your writing.

Now, since El Cuscatlan has decided to withdraw, I have decided that Valaran shall face Ghant, as checking back revealed he actually did reach the required number of nominations aswas previously stated.
I am going to postpone each matchup for one day, in order to allow feelings to simmer a little before things get back underway.

-TGVH

[Feazanthia]

If anyone runs FT it's me. AND I AM WATCHING ALL OF YOU. /s

And, can I just say, the numerous allegations of cheating, vote-buying, and all around poor sportsmanship that have been brought up to me regarding this contest (this particular one, I haven't actually bothered to participate in others to the best of my memory) are frankly shocking and I'm very disappointed.

[Huerdae]

I cannot even begin to say how disgusted I am by this.

As one of those who spent a fair amount of time working against people who thought they could 'run' a rule-less, admission-less, completely open community, I find the accusations against Kyrusia downright distasteful. He is a guy who cares about the path the community is taking - much like myself, Rethan, Feazanthia, and countless others all in our own time. I would even say we still do. We have all put a significant number of ours. To say that Kyrusia 'runs' FT is an insult to anyone who has spent time trying to take something they spent that time on and make it better.

To say such a thing seems to me to be little more than slander, and I find it outrageous that it would be given the attention it has. This seems to me to be a witch hunt, nothing more.

This is the only post I'll be making on this subject. It should also be noted that a significant number of FT players, including myself, voted AGAINST Kyrusia.