Open Letter From the Mentor Team, Re: Security Council

[New Babylonia]

You do understand GP, as it is now, has priority over RP right?

GP has priority over the gameplay itself, RP has priority over the forum(s).

No, the mods have SPECIFICALLY stated, and others have quoted it, that overall GP has been, and is still placed before RP.

[Tiltjuice]

We're not asking for that. Stating that is inevitably going to draw sparks.

Well the overwhelming concencus here is raiding is ebil and everyone who dares side with mall for playing the game is ebil, right?

I hold by my position that asking him to resign is stupid and childish.-

And people wonder where that consensus comes from.

We just don't want to be involved in gameplay. Desiring separation is not a claim to superiority.

[Eaglleia]

I wish to sign

[Hobbesistan]

GP has priority over the gameplay itself, RP has priority over the forum(s).

No, the mods have SPECIFICALLY stated, and others have quoted it, that overall GP has been, and is still placed before RP.

Because the forums are kind of useless without a game?...

It's a fair argument, I suppose.

[Northrop-Grumman]

Personally, this mall should resign stuff is stupid, it's like me asking every Mentor here who roleplays a 'evil' nation to resign. Mall is just playing the game, nothing less, nothing more. His actions are entirely legal and asking him to resign over them is a stupid and childish act, frankly.

Arguably, someone who RPs an evil nation doesn't necessarily affect anyone else as RP is still pretty much a game of consent. Whereas, raiding thrives on that lack of consent. I can understand why people would get pretty pissed at him over it, and personally I'm rather annoyed because...well....this falls into two-ish categories:

• He knew that it would cause this complete and utter chaotic mess between the R/D and non-R/D communities, because its happened so many times before, and simply either didn't care or wanted to get everyone riled up. In which case, I'd really question whether he was right for the position if you don't give a damn about your actions.
• He didn't know it would cause this uproar, despite it happening every single time R/D has poked the RP community. In which case, someone needs to bring him up to speed on the whole thing.

And I know this is going to unpopular, but he might be the nicest person in person, but I'd seriously question whether we need to have Raider Mods in the future, just because how their community plays NS is the one who actively seeks to destroy or damage all the other community's regions. General Mods can't do that, RP mods can't do that, WA mods can't do that, Sports mods can't do that, and so forth and so on. Their regular actions in NS cause such conflict and such an utter mess that it's really unwise to have them as one of the faces of the game. That's just my two cents.

[New Zepuha]

I wish to sign.

[Hobbesistan]

Well the overwhelming concencus here is raiding is ebil and everyone who dares side with mall for playing the game is ebil, right?

I hold by my position that asking him to resign is stupid and childish.-

And people wonder where that consensus comes from.

We just don't want to be involved in gameplay. Desiring separation is not a claim to superiority.

You're involved in gameplay, right now, you had to play the game to be able to access the forum.

The way I see you want this to end is Max making 'Malicious' liberations against the rules, but this undermines the entire process of the SC and WA, which is that it (officially) has no priorities between R/D and RP/GP.

[Hobbesistan]

Personally, this mall should resign stuff is stupid, it's like me asking every Mentor here who roleplays a 'evil' nation to resign. Mall is just playing the game, nothing less, nothing more. His actions are entirely legal and asking him to resign over them is a stupid and childish act, frankly.

Arguably, someone who RPs an evil nation doesn't necessarily affect anyone else as RP is still pretty much a game of consent. Whereas, raiding thrives on that lack of consent. I can understand why people would get pretty pissed at him over it, and personally I'm rather annoyed because...well....this falls into two-ish categories:

• He knew that it would cause this complete and utter chaotic mess between the R/D and non-R/D communities, because its happened so many times before, and simply either didn't care or wanted to get everyone riled up. In which case, I'd really question whether he was right for the position if you don't give a damn about your actions.
• He didn't know it would cause this uproar, despite it happening every single time R/D has poked the RP community. In which case, someone needs to bring him up to speed on the whole thing.

And I know this is going to unpopular, but he might be the nicest person in person, but I'd seriously question whether we need to have Raider Mods in the future, just because how their community plays NS is the one who actively seeks to destroy or damage all the other community's regions. General Mods can't do that, RP mods can't do that, WA mods can't do that, Sports mods can't do that, and so forth and so on. Their regular actions in NS cause such conflict and such an utter mess that it's really unwise to have them as one of the faces of the game. That's just my two cents.

I, for one, talk to Mall on IRC a lot, he's a really nice guy, he's just playing the game like the rest of us.

You can find him on #osi EsperNet if you ever want to yell at him, or, y'know, hold a mature discussion.

[Castille de Italia]

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,

That pretty much seals the deal. The thing the irks me is that he blatantly refuses to admit he wants Haven raided, but puts it in his own SC resolution to "liberate" Haven.

[Jordslag]

Hm, this is going well. Does Max have a nation on here, by the way?

[New Babylonia]

No, the mods have SPECIFICALLY stated, and others have quoted it, that overall GP has been, and is still placed before RP.

Because the forums are kind of useless without a game?...

It's a fair argument, I suppose.

The forums were here before R/D. Infact, the forums, and RP forums, have existed since 3 days after the very first time Nationstates was ever created as a website. GP was not meant to be part of the game, in fact, the GP we have now, is a glitch that they figured (And, not wrongly, I think) didn't really need to be fixed, as it wasn't going to hurt anyone. R/D is not what provides RP the basis of the NS gameside. It is an exploited glitch.

RP does not need R/D, nor does R/D need RP to survive. The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

[Bezombia]

Hm, this is going well. Does Max have a nation on here, by the way?

Yes but he rarely ever uses it.

Violet doesn't have a nation, though.

[Feazanthia]

Hm, this is going well. Does Max have a nation on here, by the way?

Not one we know of.

[Bezombia]

Hm, this is going well. Does Max have a nation on here, by the way?

Not one we know of.

Then who operated Maxtopia?

[Shalum]

I wish to sign

[Tiltjuice]

And people wonder where that consensus comes from.

We just don't want to be involved in gameplay. Desiring separation is not a claim to superiority.

You're involved in gameplay, right now, you had to play the game to be able to access the forum.

The way I see you want this to end is Max making 'Malicious' liberations against the rules, but this undermines the entire process of the SC and WA, which is that it (officially) has no priorities between R/D and RP/GP.

Really? That's your counterargument? Making a nation automatically pitches me into the R/D game. Furthermore,

You're involved in gameplay, right now, you had to play the game to be able to access the forum.

sounds a lot like "Gameplay (as opposed to gameplay) takes priority over RP", which flies in the face of the sentiment you were expressing just a minute ago. Is it no wonder that RPers get so frustrated with R/D?

[Evil Wolf]

Confident that a number of raiding organizations could utilize the region for far more interesting things than the current residents are choosing to,

That pretty much seals the deal. The thing the irks me is that he blatantly refuses to admit he wants Haven raided, but puts it in his own SC resolution to "liberate" Haven.

Yeah, so? He's allowed to do that. I'm allowed to do that. You're allowed to do that. Every player in the entire game is allowed to make an SC proposal just like Mall did using similar or near identical language.

Doesn't mean the proposal will pass.

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

Right, I guess I've just been playing Fake NS all these years, not Real NS.

[Hobbesistan]

Because the forums are kind of useless without a game?...

It's a fair argument, I suppose.

The forums were here before R/D. Infact, the forums, and RP forums, have existed since 3 days after the very first time Nationstates was ever created as a website. GP was not meant to be part of the game, in fact, the GP we have now, is a glitch that they figured (And, not wrongly, I think) didn't really need to be fixed, as it wasn't going to hurt anyone. R/D is not what provides RP the basis of the NS gameside. It is an exploited glitch.

RP does not need R/D, nor does R/D need RP to survive. The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

noun: glitch; plural noun: glitches

1.
a sudden, usually temporary malfunction or irregularity of equipment.

It's not a glitch, it was a game mechanic that no one noticed and then was let to go.

And one thats brought activity, including this thread, right now, you may not see it as positive, but R/D breeds activity.

It's a long-accepted part of the game at this point, not a 'exploited glitch'.

Really? That's your counterargument? Making a nation automatically pitches me into the R/D game. Furthermore,

Yes, if your in a region, you can be subject to the R/D game.

sounds a lot like "Gameplay (as opposed to gameplay) takes priority over RP", which flies in the face of the sentiment you were expressing just a minute ago. Is it no wonder that RPers get so frustrated with R/D?

it sounds like gameplay has its place and so does RP.

[Hobbesistan]

That pretty much seals the deal. The thing the irks me is that he blatantly refuses to admit he wants Haven raided, but puts it in his own SC resolution to "liberate" Haven.

Yeah, so? He's allowed to do that. I'm allowed to do that. You're allowed to do that. Every player in the entire game is allowed to make an SC proposal just like Mall did using similar or near identical language.

Doesn't mean the proposal will pass.

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

Right, I guess I've just been playing Fake NS all these years, not Real NS.

Welcome to the GP-RP brawl, comrade.

*Hands a baseball bat*

[Tiltjuice]

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

That kind of reductionism doesn't help us, either. Let's say you're right. What's to stop Max from thinking, "You know, all this isn't worth the trouble of provoking furor. Let's just shut down everything except the original political simulator game."?

Not that I think it's likely, mind, but it's a possibility.

[Paddy O Fernature]

This disgusts me.

Go ahead and throw my name on that list, as i'll standby the mentors on this one.

[New Babylonia]

That pretty much seals the deal. The thing the irks me is that he blatantly refuses to admit he wants Haven raided, but puts it in his own SC resolution to "liberate" Haven.

Yeah, so? He's allowed to do that. I'm allowed to do that. You're allowed to do that. Every player in the entire game is allowed to make an SC proposal just like Mall did using similar or near identical language.

Doesn't mean the proposal will pass.

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

Right, I guess I've just been playing Fake NS all these years, not Real NS.

R/D is not the game that allows the RP forums to exist. That's what was said, that's what I disproved. If you've been looking at your nation page, answering issues, etc, you've been playing NS. Anything beyond that, is not playing the actual NS game, but doing things which may only exist because of. So, while R/D players play NS like everyone else, contrary to their belief, R/D is NOT the game.

[Bezombia]

The actual NS game is you nation, issues, and everything on that sidebar. That's the NS game, not GP.

That kind of reductionism doesn't help us, either. Let's say you're right. What's to stop Max from thinking, "You know, all this isn't worth the trouble of provoking furor. Let's just shut down everything except the original political simulator game."?

Not that I think it's likely, mind, but it's a possibility.

He'd never give up the ad revenue.

[Astrolinium]

I wish to sign this.

[Jordslag]

Hm, this is going well. Does Max have a nation on here, by the way?

Yes but he rarely ever uses it.

Violet doesn't have a nation, though.

Oh, I was hoping someone could TG him to clear up this mess...