The Beaufort Memorandum [Closed | Invite Only]

[Aurinsula]

To be blunt, our answer is, "with almost complete indifference." There is no theoretical outcome to the Arturia situation that really advances or hinders Aurinsula's progress in any way, and as such we are happy to let you do what you feel you need to do - and even give some limited assistance, if truly necessary or if it provides some benefit to us - in order to resolve this to your satisfaction.

[Regnum Albion]

Considering the ADTO is lagging on the South Arturia vote, I was looking at other regional organisations to see how others do it. I've found one that is beautifully simple and could potentially act as a way to make the Beaufort Group a more recognisable and effective force in Aurora. It would, of course, not alter the main purpose of the group (discussion) but if we did want to craft joint statements or resolutions then this could be a model:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=248592

What would you all think of something like this (note that it explicitly forbids the group to authorise use of military force, and is not bound by a lengthly and complicated charter)?

On another note, I was thinking about an addition to the memorandum which could involve each of us respected relevant stated spheres of interest (so, for example, we all agree that Mediterreania is an issue that is in the sphere of influence of Aurinsula and Mizuyuki, and therefore Albion and Afalia would not unilaterally take action without consulting them). Any thoughts on this too?

[Aurinsula]

Mm-mm. No, we gotta veto this one. Aurinsula isn't having anything to do with any more voting or crafting of joint statements or anything like that. We are here to talk, and talk we shall do; but we sternly oppose any sort of evolution into a body that begins to actually bind its members or exists as an entity apart from its members. Keep it small, keep it safe.

[Regnum Albion]

Understood. That's a very clear position.

I wasn't suggesting it be exactly like the example shown, but that it simply have more 'branding' as such, and that joint statements be made rather than binding resolutions. For example, in the South Arturia situation, a statement could be made saying that the Group supports the transition to majority rule and accepts that it is a matter for the parties involved (I'm not saying that would actually be the content of such a statement). That way we're supporting each other, but not forcing one another into any action or inaction. It's a way of increasing the Group's influence, but not its power over members.

Of course, your view is very strong on this and as the point of this Group is and should be merely discussion, I can respect that you don't want to solidify any binding practices.

What were your thoughts on the proposed addition to the Memorandum, that is the respecting of each others' spheres of influence?

[Aurinsula]

I would agree to understandings re: spheres of influence, but I'd be curious as to what sphere you and Afalia would want to claim in return.

[Regnum Albion]

I can't speak for Afalia, but Regnum Albion obviously has interests in South Arturia.

I imagine that if Afalia and I were to share an area of interest, it would be in East Aurora. Would that be true, Afalia?

[Afalia]

I can't speak for Afalia, but Regnum Albion obviously has interests in South Arturia.

I imagine that if Afalia and I were to share an area of interest, it would be in East Aurora. Would that be true, Afalia?

Yes. We have an obvious interest in what happens in East Aurora, not least because of the amount of trade and economic investment we do there. If we're speaking extra-regionally then Pardes is a definite Afalian area of interest due to our close relations with many nations there-our geographical position means we do a lot of trade, we have a number of allies in the region and a military base based there. I'm in favour of the spheres understanding as long as we don't make it too concrete.

[Regnum Albion]

Yes, I was thinking phrasing it as:

The governments of [all of us] agree to respect each others' areas of interest and consult with one another about action and co-operation within them.

Alternatively, we simply agree to it here and don't even need to add it to the memorandum.

[Afalia]

Yes, I was thinking phrasing it as:

The governments of [all of us] agree to respect each others' areas of interest and consult with one another about action and co-operation within them.

Alternatively, we simply agree to it here and don't even need to add it to the memorandum.

I'm happy with either.

[Mizuyuki]

Just catching up with stuff -

Considering the ADTO is lagging on the South Arturia vote, I was looking at other regional organisations to see how others do it. I've found one that is beautifully simple and could potentially act as a way to make the Beaufort Group a more recognisable and effective force in Aurora. It would, of course, not alter the main purpose of the group (discussion) but if we did want to craft joint statements or resolutions then this could be a model:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=248592

What would you all think of something like this (note that it explicitly forbids the group to authorise use of military force, and is not bound by a lengthly and complicated charter)?

On another note, I was thinking about an addition to the memorandum which could involve each of us respected relevant stated spheres of interest (so, for example, we all agree that Mediterreania is an issue that is in the sphere of influence of Aurinsula and Mizuyuki, and therefore Albion and Afalia would not unilaterally take action without consulting them). Any thoughts on this too?

Our position on this is largely similar to Aurin's - the way I see it, the entire purpose of the Beaufort Memorandum is to establish a platform for constructive discussions and negotiations - we don't need to bind ourselves to an institution (see the ADTO). Our stance is unlikely to change in the near future. However, we would support the formation of a loose representative body which essentially serves as the mouthpiece for the BM signatories, which I think would tie in nicely with Alby's proposal re - joint statements. It wouldn't be codified nor institutionalised - we would all be of the understanding that it simply serves as a body through which we are able to communicate our intentions/protests/what have you.

As for an understanding on spheres of influence, I'm willing to support - however, Alby's example does raise an interesting point; what would be our course of action, as a whole, if members who claim similar spheres of influence were to disagree over the BM's course of action? I'm not saying that the BM is necessarily bound to take action, only bringing up a hypothetical scenario - say, if the Mediterreanian crisis boiled over. As Alby has mentioned, both Aurinsula and Mizuyuki have a legitimate claim to them being in their spheres of influence. In the event that the situation necessitated full-scale military intervention, Kirayuki would be adamant in sending the MSDF to deal with the insurgents, since we share a land border with them - while I suspect Xinjing wouldn't want to get involved, nor would they support a Mizuyuki-jin intervention. I appreciate that Xinjing can simply refuse to align themselves with any Mizuyuki-jin action in this case, as they do not hold any interest (IIRC) in Med. But should Aurin have any reason to outright oppose the Mizuyuki-jin move - would the BM signatories remain neutral and let the two sides negotiate, or would they unilaterally decide to side with either myself or Aurin?

I'm aware that this is not exactly the perfect scenario to illustrate my point, but it does still stand. Apologies for the long-windedness - can probably be made more concise.

[Aurinsula]

Yes, I was thinking phrasing it as:

The governments of [all of us] agree to respect each others' areas of interest and consult with one another about action and co-operation within them.

Alternatively, we simply agree to it here and don't even need to add it to the memorandum.

Setting up "spheres of influence" is a mite tacky, from a PR perspective; I think that now that we've agreed to it, there's nothing more need be said. We understand each other.

With regards to "a representative body," here's my proposal. We four countries alternate in hosting a permanent conference, and each country sends a special representative (emphatically NOT an ambassador) to represent them there. Once so accommodated, these representatives will have instant access to one another for any of their discussion-based needs.

But I really could not accept the idea that these four representatives are attaching joint signatures to a resolution with the phrase 'Beaufort Group' at the top, or anything like that.

[Mizuyuki]

With regards to "a representative body," here's my proposal. We four countries alternate in hosting a permanent conference, and each country sends a special representative (emphatically NOT an ambassador) to represent them there. Once so accommodated, these representatives will have instant access to one another for any of their discussion-based needs.

Consider this seconded.

[Regnum Albion]

And thirded (if there is such a word).

The spheres of influence issue is one which I think can be worked out between the involved nations. After, all the Beaufort Group is only here to facilitate discussion and if a dispute arises between members then it is a means of bringing that dispute to the table and attempting to resolve it. We can have different views on a situation, I believe, but we work out how to deal with that situation informally in the Beaufort Group. That's what I understand it all to be.

[Mizuyuki]

And thirded (if there is such a word).

The spheres of influence issue is one which I think can be worked out between the involved nations. After, all the Beaufort Group is only here to facilitate discussion and if a dispute arises between members then it is a means of bringing that dispute to the table and attempting to resolve it. We can have different views on a situation, I believe, but we work out how to deal with that situation informally in the Beaufort Group. That's what I understand it all to be.

That makes sense, and when you think about it, is really the most intuitive option. Damn me and my wordiness.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Afalia]

I agree with the representative body proposals. I think as long as we have good diplomatic relationships we don't need a formal body to work things out. If we don't have good relationships then we can always try and resolve those differences via this group.

[Blackledge]

Preferred Nation Name(s): Kingdom of Blackledge
Name(s) of Representative(s): Duchess Imogen Lancaster
Position(s) of Representative(s): His Majesty's Minister for Foreign and Colonial Affairs

At Regnum Albion's invitation, I thought I would inquire into becoming involved in this gentleman's agreement. I welcome any and all questions and concerns.

[Aurinsula]

Well, what would you be seeking from us, and what should we be seeking from you?

[Blackledge]

What I'm looking for from the Beaufort Group is an opportunity for trade and economic cooperation, as well as stable (and friendly) relations so as to allow safe commerce in Aurora overall.

What you should be seeking may be relative, but another friendly nation willing to uphold regional stability and security, as well as preventing a hegemony hostile to those interests from arising, may be a satisfiable addition. As well a friendly power open to military cooperation and technological assistance.

IC These nations appear some of the more culturally similar to mine, so there is some believability in finding common ground, and OOC some of these players have been the most welcoming.

[Afalia]

What I'm looking for from the Beaufort Group is an opportunity for trade and economic cooperation, as well as stable (and friendly) relations so as to allow safe commerce in Aurora overall.

What you should be seeking may be relative, but another friendly nation willing to uphold regional stability and security, as well as preventing a hegemony hostile to those interests from arising, may be a satisfiable addition. As well a friendly power open to military cooperation and technological assistance.

IC These nations appear some of the more culturally similar to mine, so there is some believability in finding common ground, and OOC some of these players have been the most welcoming.

We seem to share common goals. The Beaufort Group can be used as a vehicle for other areas and pursuits without involving all members. Ie, if you and I wanted a trade agreement but Aurin, who is completely free trade, didn't then we could work something out separately from this group. Your foreign policy aims are largely in keeping with the basic principles of this group. From reading your details on the applications thread you seem to share many common aspects with us as a nation anyway.

Do you know where you're going to be on the map yet by the way? I imagine somewhere in Aurora Major?

[Regnum Albion]

Obviously having recommended Blackledge I'm going to support your entry. It's clear that you share our general foreign policy aims and this group would be a great way of facilitating a number of those agreements that you seek, as well as OOCly providing a nice way to smooth you into the Auroran canon and affairs.

[Mizuyuki]

I have no objections to Blackledge's entry.

Right, I have a question to raise - would any BG member object to the admission of extraregional governments into the Group?

[Aurinsula]

OOC, I would, because I don't want to keep track of them and because I'm always disturbed by tacit canonicity, but I suppose I could be persuaded on a case-by-case basis.

[Regnum Albion]

I don't think we've had any objections to Blackledge's entry into the BG, so shall we confirm it now then?

As for an extra-regional member, perhaps some more details would help us along. Although I generally don't have any personal qualms at the moment. Any information on the candidate(s) Miz?

[Aurinsula]

Oh yeah, confirmed. Welcome to the club. While you're here, please also do us the kindness of filling out the Aurorapedia.

[Mizuyuki]

Again, no objections from my end. I think we can confirm Blackledge's entry.

Re - extraregional members, I'm considering extending a formal invitation to Gylias. TSE and Cacerta are two other candidates on my radar.