Future Tech Advice and Assistance Thread [O.O.C.]

[Dreadful Sagittarius]

So, I've been having some issues with my factbook lately; particularly the history section of my wiki style overview. I can't seem to format it/write it to my liking... So, I think I've come up with a solution, but I'm curious for some extra input.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing... I want to change the format of that section to that of a timeline of major events (including events that my people know little, if anything about) starting from before the creation of the interstellar empire itself to what would be considered "present day."

My problem is that I'm not sure of using the timeline format in my factbook, so I'd like a few more opinions as to whether or not I should. Thanks.

Timelines work well even if they don't look 'pretty'. I've got one in my factbook (see the sig) and it's worked very well for me in sorting out the main historical events in an easy-to-read format.

[Klaarnon]

The reptilian ecies native to Hlaag'req V have declared their intention to secede from the Empire. This is, of course, unacceptable. Imperial Starfleet has arrived in orbit, in overwhelming force, to ensure the smooth transition to a loyal planetary government.

[Nyte]

So, I've been having some issues with my factbook lately; particularly the history section of my wiki style overview. I can't seem to format it/write it to my liking... So, I think I've come up with a solution, but I'm curious for some extra input.

Here's what I'm thinking of doing... I want to change the format of that section to that of a timeline of major events (including events that my people know little, if anything about) starting from before the creation of the interstellar empire itself to what would be considered "present day."

My problem is that I'm not sure of using the timeline format in my factbook, so I'd like a few more opinions as to whether or not I should. Thanks.

Timelines work well even if they don't look 'pretty'. I've got one in my factbook (see the sig) and it's worked very well for me in sorting out the main historical events in an easy-to-read format.

Indeed... I've already switched over to using a timeline, and even though its still a bit of a work in progress, its already more informative than what I replaced it with was, and the format isn't as ugly as I was worried it would be.

The reptilian ecies native to Hlaag'req V have declared their intention to secede from the Empire. This is, of course, unacceptable. Imperial Starfleet has arrived in orbit, in overwhelming force, to ensure the smooth transition to a loyal planetary government.

Is there a question there? This thread is for asking/receiving advice/assistance from other nations in the FT community and as such, it is not a RP thread.

As you seem to be new here, I would advise you to check out page one of this thread. You'll find links to a number of useful resources and some excellent advice that will prove quite helpful to you. I would seriously recommend that you give it a look over.

[Dimoniquid]

I know this is stretching it a little, since it may include PMT as well, but how many years in the future (from present day) would it be until a nation could develop a fully functional, battle ready spacecraft? I was wondering since I wanted to do a complete overhaul of my nation, and I wanted to start with my nation's history and how it colonised its first world.

I was think something along the along the lines of Charon-class light frigate, with a few changes to the complement it would carry, but I have no idea how long it would even take to even begin developing something like this. I was think a little over a hundred years?

[Rhoderberg]

If Orion is anything to go by, we could have had space warships by the early 60's.

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2013/04/ ... hines.html

[Sunset]

This is absolutely a question of National Will and Determination as opposed to a static 'technological progress' tree and, of course, a bit of perception. What is a fully functional, battle-ready spacecraft? An Apollo capsule with some rockets on it would qualify, as would a top-of-the-line Ascendant-Class Command Ship. By my own timeline, the Apollo program never stopped and the space shuttle and its attendant waste never took off. Instead of dicking around in space for the next fifty years, 'we' sprinted ahead. Earth-centric timeline... About thirty years to go from WWII-era rockets to intra-system travel.

Presuming you had an Elon Musk or a John F. Kennedy and real National Will behind it? Not that long. A big part of it would be National Will though. We are not reaching out for Mars or even the Moon because we, as a civilization, love to get distracted by petty things that will look exactly that if we can reach out to the stars. So, look at your nation. Is it in your national character to go big and go bold? If they are a very traditional and backward-facing people... Not so much. But if they have that rare spark, that certain individual, then yes. They could go and go quickly.

[The Zelache-Terran Union]

So I want a reasonably sized space-faring country made from merging two fair sized states, sort of like the Lithuanian-Poland commonwealth or the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. I thought about 18 or so systems sounded like a good number, but I wanted to get everyone's else opinion before I did to much work on my territory.

[Rhoderberg]

Generally speaking, new posters are advised to take somewhere in the realm of three systems at most, and then build upon that as they RP out their nation.

I'd also advise only having as many systems as you can name planets for.

[Diopolis]

So I want a reasonably sized space-faring country made from merging two fair sized states, sort of like the Lithuanian-Poland commonwealth or the Austrian-Hungarian Empire. I thought about 18 or so systems sounded like a good number, but I wanted to get everyone's else opinion before I did to much work on my territory.

Unless you had a previous nation that RP'd as FT, start with two systems(each one was one of the states that merged) and then build on it.

[The Zelache-Terran Union]

Generally speaking, new posters are advised to take somewhere in the realm of three systems at most, and then build upon that as they RP out their nation.

I'd also advise only having as many systems as you can name planets for.

I can create names for 18 systems, I was imagining the Zelache systems being named after people from their world while the Terran systems are named after pure elements, with some slight adjustments to show that they are different from the element.

That seems tedious to sit there and act out all those additions when most of that territory would have been taken up by various colonial projects over the last 300 or 400 years.

[Vocenae]

Generally speaking, new posters are advised to take somewhere in the realm of three systems at most, and then build upon that as they RP out their nation.

I'd also advise only having as many systems as you can name planets for.

I can create names for 18 systems, I was imagining the Zelache systems being named after people from their world while the Terran systems are named after pure elements, with some slight adjustments to show that they are different from the element.

That seems tedious to sit there and act out all those additions when most of that territory would have been taken up by various colonial projects over the last 300 or 400 years.

Hello, Zelache-Terran Union. Sorry I missed you when you were in the IRC, but hopefully I can address some of your concerns here.

Just to give you a little insight on the general size of Future Tech nations, the largest interstellar power in the community canon has twenty-eight star systems, nearly all of which were developed over the full decade the community had been around. So you can see why wanting to have eighteen systems starting out can, you know, throw up some pretty big red flags.

We advise people to start with the three system thing because not only does it, more often than not, allow people to grasp and understand their nation on a deeper level (fleshing out character concepts, along with feeling out your cultural and societal leanings for your nation), but also because it's more or less a test of your OOC character. As has been said, "If you can't be trusted with three systems, why should anyone trust you with twenty?". Future Tech is a small community compared to Modern Tech. Most of our players are familiar with each other on a Out Of Character basis, and that means if you end up being a dick or a derp with those eighteen system, well, you're free to continue doing that but you're going to find yourself without RP partners.

For a much clearer rundown of why we encourage players to start off small can be found here. I highly suggest you give it a read. Size & Scale in Relation to Future Tech.

So as you can see, size in FT means nothing. Your nation's power and influence, however mighty you might develop them to be, is determined entirely by the Future Tech community. For example, take Huerdae for example. When he showed up on the scene in 2009, he was a brand new nation that had absolutely nothing. No community connections, no 'street cred', but because he started with a reasonable number of systems (six in the beginning, I think) and because he was Creative with them, wrote them Consistently, Collaborated with everyone and Compromised when and where needed, he quickly became one of the single most powerful star faring states in Future Tech within a few months of his arrival.

Word of mouth. It is a thing that happens. Also what they say about first impressions is entirely true, although we're typically a understanding and relatively forgiving bunch, especially if you show that you're willing to lean how the community works and adapt yourself accordingly. See also: Code of Bro.

Does that mean you have to, as I noted with the example at the beginning of my postabove, play out all of your expansions over the course of real-life years? No, absolutely not, but starting small and taking your time growing in the beginning goes a long way to show to the community that you're not just some kid who showed up looking for power, recognition and respect without doing anything to earn it.

Not only do I recommend a thorough read through of the Opening Post of this thread, I would highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend (if you haven't already) giving The Future Tech Beginner's Tutorial another very thorough read through. These posts {and by extension RPing as Humans and Aliens just in case you're playing as aliens) will give you a better read on the community expectations and standards.

[Baltante]

I can create names for 18 systems, I was imagining the Zelache systems being named after people from their world while the Terran systems are named after pure elements, with some slight adjustments to show that they are different from the element.

That seems tedious to sit there and act out all those additions when most of that territory would have been taken up by various colonial projects over the last 300 or 400 years.

Hello, Zelache-Terran Union. Sorry I missed you when you were in the IRC, but hopefully I can address some of your concerns here.

Just to give you a little insight on the general size of Future Tech nations, the largest interstellar power in the community canon has twenty-eight star systems, nearly all of which were developed over the full decade the community had been around. So you can see why wanting to have eighteen systems starting out can, you know, throw up some pretty big red flags.

We advise people to start with the three system thing because not only does it, more often than not, allow people to grasp and understand their nation on a deeper level (fleshing out character concepts, along with feeling out your cultural and societal leanings for your nation), but also because it's more or less a test of your OOC character. As has been said, "If you can't be trusted with three systems, why should anyone trust you with twenty?". Future Tech is a small community compared to Modern Tech. Most of our players are familiar with each other on a Out Of Character basis, and that means if you end up being a dick or a derp with those eighteen system, well, you're free to continue doing that but you're going to find yourself without RP partners.

For a much clearer rundown of why we encourage players to start off small can be found here. I highly suggest you give it a read. Size & Scale in Relation to Future Tech.

So as you can see, size in FT means nothing. Your nation's power and influence, however mighty you might develop them to be, is determined entirely by the Future Tech community. For example, take Huerdae for example. When he showed up on the scene in 2009, he was a brand new nation that had absolutely nothing. No community connections, no 'street cred', but because he started with a reasonable number of systems (six in the beginning, I think) and because he was Creative with them, wrote them Consistently, Collaborated with everyone and Compromised when and where needed, he quickly became one of the single most powerful star faring states in Future Tech within a few months of his arrival.

Word of mouth. It is a thing that happens. See also: Code of Bro.

Not only do I recommend a thorough read through of the Opening Post of this thread, I would highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend (if you haven't already) giving The Future Tech Beginner's Tutorial another very thorough read through. These posts {and by extension RPing as Humans and Aliens just in case you're playing as aliens) will give you a better read on the community expectations and standards.

Thank you for that detailed break down Voc, I see your point that if the largest only has 28 systems over the past decade myself just coming in with eighteen sounds unreasonable. In that case though I feel as though the Zelache-Terran Union might not be the greatest nations for FT as I am unwilling to reuse the name for something else, so I will transfer my attention to this account to build something more fitting of FT.

So I guess I might peg Baltante at a single system and have them expand outwards from that, le british empire style. I will definitely be playing them as an alien though as I already have species in mind and I dont just want to scrap them along with the ZT Union.

[Nyte]

*has 33 star systems... feels ignored.*

On the matter of size... Limiting yourself to 1 system may be a bit overkill. Of the systems I have, 8 actually have a planet with people living on it. The rest are mostly empty space with the occasional mining outpost or supply station; a few just have "no trespassing" signs . So, while I apparently have a few more systems than I probably should, the majority serve little real purpose IC and don't equate to having any more "power" than anyone else IMO. They're basically fluff that exists for background purposes in my factbook. Also, unless you're planning to start your nation from its very first steps into FTL travel, odds are your nation would have at least one or two other systems that are being used as an outpost, refueling station, or prospective colony and so on.

[Sunset]

And there is no reason to not start exactly there; Roleplaying is about telling a story and a story isn't very interesting without a challenge to overcome. It doesn't always have to be a violent challenge either but no one wants to read about someone or a group of someone's that drifts through life without any particular successes or failures. Even growth is a challenge because it is fundamentally change. What has been will not be and there is no going back to that old life. This is one of the beauties of starting small; There is so much more change to look forward to than when one starts big and just gets bigger. The story of the warlord who conquers yet another star system is a yawner - she's already done that. But the story of a young man who fails at his attempt to join the most prestigious military academy on the planet only to be taken in by a wise old mentor who fails to teach him compassion and ends up dying at the hand of his own protege before the young man goes on a war of conquest that ends with his own death at the hands of valorous upstarts? That's a story people want to read and, after many stories written of my own, that you'll enjoy writing!

[Taigawa]

Currently through my timeline, I have two systems, my native system and one where I conquered a planet. Not counting Thessia (My homeworld) I have 1 planet, a terraformed moon, and a habitable dyson sphere along the lines of the Forerunner 'shield worlds.' Any thoughts on how to expand from this?

My timeline year is 2200 AD.

[Stormwrath]

*has 33 star systems... feels ignored.*

On the matter of size... Limiting yourself to 1 system may be a bit overkill. Of the systems I have, 8 actually have a planet with people living on it. The rest are mostly empty space with the occasional mining outpost or supply station; a few just have "no trespassing" signs . So, while I apparently have a few more systems than I probably should, the majority serve little real purpose IC and don't equate to having any more "power" than anyone else IMO. They're basically fluff that exists for background purposes in my factbook. Also, unless you're planning to start your nation from its very first steps into FTL travel, odds are your nation would have at least one or two other systems that are being used as an outpost, refueling station, or prospective colony and so on.

Doesn't Kyrusia's Serukta puppet have 65 systems?

On another note, what are the implications of an economic crisis on a star state?

[Excidium Planetis]

Another valid option:

I am the proud owner of exactly 0 star systems (though I have 2 upcoming wars that might change that).

The nomadic way of life is fraught with many dangers, but the only borders to our space is the borders of another nation.

[Yngen]

Another valid option:

I am the proud owner of exactly 0 star systems (though I have 2 upcoming wars that might change that).

The nomadic way of life is fraught with many dangers, but the only borders to our space is the borders of another nation.

You know, I don't think I've ever actually met an FT'er who seriously played as nomads (one or two trolls, or else NPC punching bags, but no genuine players)

that's a really interesting approach

[Vocenae]

Migrant Fleet civilizations are actually pretty common in the Future Tech community.

EDIT: Now that I have a bit more time, the reason for Migrant Fleets being a popular concept is because (for some odd reason) people love the Quarians from the Mass Effect franchise. Basing an entire civilization in these confined and tightly controlled environments yet has a species flourishing within the hulls of the vast numbers of ships needed also presents it's own kind of allure, though mainly for people that want to have overwhelming numbers and thus Playing To Win. Thanks, Tali, you try-hard geekbait. There's also the Vasari from Sins of a Solar Empire, but they don't really count from a world building perspective because there's so little actual lore in that game. Basically people either go in with the 'LOOK AT ALL MY SHIPS I AM AWESOME' mentality, wherein they're just looking for respect without really earning it from the community, or they feel limited, for some reason, by sticking to a planet. I also personally feel that people that go in with the outlook of 'hey, I'm a fleet civilization with no real problems and I'm rather flourishing in this environment) are a bit naieve and don't really understand the horribly complex logistics of trying to keep such a civilization running. Especially if the Fleet Civ is made up of survivors of some horribly apocalyptic fight in their backstory.

Battlestar Galactica (Ronald D. Moore's version, at least) presents what I feel an actual fleet-based civilization would be like. Harsh, dirty, violent. Constantly on the move, constantly searching for resources to continue forward...A civilization that is always teetering on the edge of collapsing in on itself because in reality, that is what would happen. Just look at the psychological problems that are created within naval forces and sailors who don't get to go out and stretch their legs or leave their environment for awhile and decompress. Hell, just take a look the 'Winter-Over Syndrome' that Arctic and Antarctic researchers suffer through when they stay at their bases during the winter months, in tight quarters with the same people day after day after day with no chance of leaving and very limited contact with the outside world. The Quarian Migrant Fleet may have appeared nice and orderly and structured (which I believe was a reaction to nerds falling in love with Tali), and I feel that even three hundred years in their civilization shouldn't have appeared as it did, especially given that they were fleeing from an apocalyptic war.

If you're going for a newly space borne fleet civilization, one cobbled together from desperate groups of the same species, the dominant themes of your civilization should be survival and fear. You don't want to die, so you keep pushing forward and doing questionable things in order to make sure you and those that you care about continue to survive to the next horrible event. Your equipment might not be designed for the task endless operation and the quarters not designed for the population numbers that would be needed for a viable gene-pool. Equipment would break down, rampant starvation, death and the constant struggle not to turn to barbarism, to hold onto the things (creature comforts, morals, philosophies) that once existed back home, in a civilization that no longer exists because it was destroyed. The struggle of having to adapt to a environment that frankly, wants nothing more for others to die so that there's more food for the next person.

Looking back on the Quarians and their silly fleet civilization, we see how orderly it is, how they seemingly overcame all these hurdles and challenges, for form a new civilization that for as far as we know, was pretty different from what Quarians had on their planet before. It makes sense, right? Three hundred years in space is surely enough time to learn what you have to do, how to keep things working, balancing all these vastly different personalities and beliefs and making sure everyone stays fed, right?

It is true that nothing remains in the horrible, ragged, spacedog eat spacedog scenario I described above. Eventually any civilization hits a critical mass where things explode and a reset button is hit. You have to lose something in order to get to the desired state. I was looking at an article recently about the flaws of Star Trek's Federation, and I happened to see this little gem that I feel is incredibly appropriate for this discussion:

Well, in order to get to that utopia, everything you have ever loved was torn apart by world war, engulfed in atomic fire, or executed in a mass genocide.

Looking back at the Quarians, and the Battlestar Galactica example, you have to lose something that makes you who you are in order to find that happy place where a Fleet Civilization would be able to thrive. For the Quarians, they lost what I can only assume was their entire birth culture in favor of the 'people republic' they became. They lost their ability to live anywhere else but their ships, and lost nearly their /entire/ immune system, to the point where intimacy between two Quarians was linking suits and either one of both of them getting horribly sick as their bodies were filled with space cooties. Even if you decide to get their homeworld back in Mass Effect 3, it will still take years, possibly even generations of slow re-adaptation to the planet that spawned their entire species before they can live without their protective suits. Even if you get a reconciliation between the Quarians and Geth and have to listen to Tali the Geekbait explain how the Geth are somehow mimicking biological viruses within the Quarian suits to help them adapt more quickly, it's still the equivalent of you living in your house while it is being fumigated with poisonous gas.

That's not even taking into account the fact that their entire civilization had collapsed and rebuilt itself to fit with living in a starship would most likely face a third collapse in order to figure out how to live on a planet again.

And then that's not even touching the Jove from EVE Online, who basically gave up their humanity in order to achieve technological supremecy and became a race of clones that are all slowly dying from a genetic disorder they can't fix that makes them become so apathetic that their bodies shut down.

Again, you can't get something for nothing, not even in science fiction. If you play a fleet civilization, please, please please take into account that it cannot be perfect. As I've always said there are no perfect nations. Use these tools and examples so that you're not just creating characters to play with, but giving your nation itself character and depth so that it isn't just 'Forerunner clone #2380708' or 'Quarian Clone #808984.

[Stormwrath]

Economic crisis. What are the implications of one in a star-state? It's because I may be RPing one with my FT-Prime puppet.

[Diopolis]

Migrant Fleet civilizations are actually pretty common in the Future Tech community.

EDIT: Now that I have a bit more time, the reason for Migrant Fleets being a popular concept is because (for some odd reason) people love the Quarians from the Mass Effect franchise. Basing an entire civilization in these confined and tightly controlled environments yet has a species flourishing within the hulls of the vast numbers of ships needed also presents it's own kind of allure, though mainly for people that want to have overwhelming numbers and thus Playing To Win. Thanks, Tali, you try-hard geekbait. There's also the Vasari from Sins of a Solar Empire, but they don't really count from a world building perspective because there's so little actual lore in that game. Basically people either go in with the 'LOOK AT ALL MY SHIPS I AM AWESOME' mentality, wherein they're just looking for respect without really earning it from the community, or they feel limited, for some reason, by sticking to a planet. I also personally feel that people that go in with the outlook of 'hey, I'm a fleet civilization with no real problems and I'm rather flourishing in this environment) are a bit naieve and don't really understand the horribly complex logistics of trying to keep such a civilization running. Especially if the Fleet Civ is made up of survivors of some horribly apocalyptic fight in their backstory.

Battlestar Galactica (Ronald D. Moore's version, at least) presents what I feel an actual fleet-based civilization would be like. Harsh, dirty, violent. Constantly on the move, constantly searching for resources to continue forward...A civilization that is always teetering on the edge of collapsing in on itself because in reality, that is what would happen. Just look at the psychological problems that are created within naval forces and sailors who don't get to go out and stretch their legs or leave their environment for awhile and decompress. Hell, just take a look the 'Winter-Over Syndrome' that Arctic and Antarctic researchers suffer through when they stay at their bases during the winter months, in tight quarters with the same people day after day after day with no chance of leaving and very limited contact with the outside world. The Quarian Migrant Fleet may have appeared nice and orderly and structured (which I believe was a reaction to nerds falling in love with Tali), and I feel that even three hundred years in their civilization shouldn't have appeared as it did, especially given that they were fleeing from an apocalyptic war.

If you're going for a newly space borne fleet civilization, one cobbled together from desperate groups of the same species, the dominant themes of your civilization should be survival and fear. You don't want to die, so you keep pushing forward and doing questionable things in order to make sure you and those that you care about continue to survive to the next horrible event. Your equipment might not be designed for the task endless operation and the quarters not designed for the population numbers that would be needed for a viable gene-pool. Equipment would break down, rampant starvation, death and the constant struggle not to turn to barbarism, to hold onto the things (creature comforts, morals, philosophies) that once existed back home, in a civilization that no longer exists because it was destroyed. The struggle of having to adapt to a environment that frankly, wants nothing more for others to die so that there's more food for the next person.

Looking back on the Quarians and their silly fleet civilization, we see how orderly it is, how they seemingly overcame all these hurdles and challenges, for form a new civilization that for as far as we know, was pretty different from what Quarians had on their planet before. It makes sense, right? Three hundred years in space is surely enough time to learn what you have to do, how to keep things working, balancing all these vastly different personalities and beliefs and making sure everyone stays fed, right?

It is true that nothing remains in the horrible, ragged, spacedog eat spacedog scenario I described above. Eventually any civilization hits a critical mass where things explode and a reset button is hit. You have to lose something in order to get to the desired state. I was looking at an article recently about the flaws of Star Trek's Federation, and I happened to see this little gem that I feel is incredibly appropriate for this discussion:

Well, in order to get to that utopia, everything you have ever loved was torn apart by world war, engulfed in atomic fire, or executed in a mass genocide.

Looking back at the Quarians, and the Battlestar Galactica example, you have to lose something that makes you who you are in order to find that happy place where a Fleet Civilization would be able to thrive. For the Quarians, they lost what I can only assume was their entire birth culture in favor of the 'people republic' they became. They lost their ability to live anywhere else but their ships, and lost nearly their /entire/ immune system, to the point where intimacy between two Quarians was linking suits and either one of both of them getting horribly sick as their bodies were filled with space cooties. Even if you decide to get their homeworld back in Mass Effect 3, it will still take years, possibly even generations of slow re-adaptation to the planet that spawned their entire species before they can live without their protective suits. Even if you get a reconciliation between the Quarians and Geth and have to listen to Tali the Geekbait explain how the Geth are somehow mimicking biological viruses within the Quarian suits to help them adapt more quickly, it's still the equivalent of you living in your house while it is being fumigated with poisonous gas.

That's not even taking into account the fact that their entire civilization had collapsed and rebuilt itself to fit with living in a starship would most likely face a third collapse in order to figure out how to live on a planet again.

And then that's not even touching the Jove from EVE Online, who basically gave up their humanity in order to achieve technological supremecy and became a race of clones that are all slowly dying from a genetic disorder they can't fix that makes them become so apathetic that their bodies shut down.

Again, you can't get something for nothing, not even in science fiction. If you play a fleet civilization, please, please please take into account that it cannot be perfect. As I've always said there are no perfect nations. Use these tools and examples so that you're not just creating characters to play with, but giving your nation itself character and depth so that it isn't just 'Forerunner clone #2380708' or 'Quarian Clone #808984.

Another portrayal to of a fleet based species that I think is relevant here would be the Eldar from 40K. Their civilians are better disciplined than most species' soldiers, and it's still a struggle for them to survive. A fleet based society could, in theory, locate everything in O'neill cylinders or Stanford toruses if they had the degree of societal discipline to keep from trashing them instantly, and even then they'd have to replace them frequently.

Economic crisis. What are the implications of one in a star-state? It's because I may be RPing one with my FT-Prime puppet.

Depends on the structure of your economy and your government's available cash reserves, much like in real life.

[Lubyak]

Economic crisis. What are the implications of one in a star-state? It's because I may be RPing one with my FT-Prime puppet.

We'll need more details on it. What kind of economic crisis? A financial crunch? Credit shortfall? Resource depletion? What's your government's ability to direct fiscal and monetary policy? What kind of society is it? What brand of economics do you want to soapbox? What will your people's reaction be? etc. etc. etc.

[Stormwrath]

Economic crisis. What are the implications of one in a star-state? It's because I may be RPing one with my FT-Prime puppet.

We'll need more details on it. What kind of economic crisis? A financial crunch? Credit shortfall? Resource depletion? What's your government's ability to direct fiscal and monetary policy? What kind of society is it? What brand of economics do you want to soapbox? What will your people's reaction be? etc. etc. etc.

Too much public spending combined with a credit shortfall and excess debt to certain creditors. I was planning a thread which is about the economic downturn of the Perseid Federation which eventually unravels the second 13-year plan, thanks to increasing involvement in interstellar trade.

[Excidium Planetis]

Migrant Fleet civilizations are actually pretty common in the Future Tech community.

EDIT: Now that I have a bit more time, the reason for Migrant Fleets being a popular concept is because (for some odd reason) people love the Quarians from the Mass Effect franchise. Basing an entire civilization in these confined and tightly controlled environments yet has a species flourishing within the hulls of the vast numbers of ships needed also presents it's own kind of allure, though mainly for people that want to have overwhelming numbers and thus Playing To Win. Thanks, Tali, you try-hard geekbait. There's also the Vasari from Sins of a Solar Empire, but they don't really count from a world building perspective because there's so little actual lore in that game. Basically people either go in with the 'LOOK AT ALL MY SHIPS I AM AWESOME' mentality, wherein they're just looking for respect without really earning it from the community, or they feel limited, for some reason, by sticking to a planet. I also personally feel that people that go in with the outlook of 'hey, I'm a fleet civilization with no real problems and I'm rather flourishing in this environment) are a bit naieve and don't really understand the horribly complex logistics of trying to keep such a civilization running. Especially if the Fleet Civ is made up of survivors of some horribly apocalyptic fight in their backstory.

Battlestar Galactica (Ronald D. Moore's version, at least) presents what I feel an actual fleet-based civilization would be like. Harsh, dirty, violent. Constantly on the move, constantly searching for resources to continue forward...A civilization that is always teetering on the edge of collapsing in on itself because in reality, that is what would happen. Just look at the psychological problems that are created within naval forces and sailors who don't get to go out and stretch their legs or leave their environment for awhile and decompress. Hell, just take a look the 'Winter-Over Syndrome' that Arctic and Antarctic researchers suffer through when they stay at their bases during the winter months, in tight quarters with the same people day after day after day with no chance of leaving and very limited contact with the outside world. The Quarian Migrant Fleet may have appeared nice and orderly and structured (which I believe was a reaction to nerds falling in love with Tali), and I feel that even three hundred years in their civilization shouldn't have appeared as it did, especially given that they were fleeing from an apocalyptic war.

If you're going for a newly space borne fleet civilization, one cobbled together from desperate groups of the same species, the dominant themes of your civilization should be survival and fear. You don't want to die, so you keep pushing forward and doing questionable things in order to make sure you and those that you care about continue to survive to the next horrible event. Your equipment might not be designed for the task endless operation and the quarters not designed for the population numbers that would be needed for a viable gene-pool. Equipment would break down, rampant starvation, death and the constant struggle not to turn to barbarism, to hold onto the things (creature comforts, morals, philosophies) that once existed back home, in a civilization that no longer exists because it was destroyed. The struggle of having to adapt to a environment that frankly, wants nothing more for others to die so that there's more food for the next person.

Looking back on the Quarians and their silly fleet civilization, we see how orderly it is, how they seemingly overcame all these hurdles and challenges, for form a new civilization that for as far as we know, was pretty different from what Quarians had on their planet before. It makes sense, right? Three hundred years in space is surely enough time to learn what you have to do, how to keep things working, balancing all these vastly different personalities and beliefs and making sure everyone stays fed, right?

It is true that nothing remains in the horrible, ragged, spacedog eat spacedog scenario I described above. Eventually any civilization hits a critical mass where things explode and a reset button is hit. You have to lose something in order to get to the desired state. I was looking at an article recently about the flaws of Star Trek's Federation, and I happened to see this little gem that I feel is incredibly appropriate for this discussion:

Well, in order to get to that utopia, everything you have ever loved was torn apart by world war, engulfed in atomic fire, or executed in a mass genocide.

Looking back at the Quarians, and the Battlestar Galactica example, you have to lose something that makes you who you are in order to find that happy place where a Fleet Civilization would be able to thrive. For the Quarians, they lost what I can only assume was their entire birth culture in favor of the 'people republic' they became. They lost their ability to live anywhere else but their ships, and lost nearly their /entire/ immune system, to the point where intimacy between two Quarians was linking suits and either one of both of them getting horribly sick as their bodies were filled with space cooties. Even if you decide to get their homeworld back in Mass Effect 3, it will still take years, possibly even generations of slow re-adaptation to the planet that spawned their entire species before they can live without their protective suits. Even if you get a reconciliation between the Quarians and Geth and have to listen to Tali the Geekbait explain how the Geth are somehow mimicking biological viruses within the Quarian suits to help them adapt more quickly, it's still the equivalent of you living in your house while it is being fumigated with poisonous gas.

That's not even taking into account the fact that their entire civilization had collapsed and rebuilt itself to fit with living in a starship would most likely face a third collapse in order to figure out how to live on a planet again.

And then that's not even touching the Jove from EVE Online, who basically gave up their humanity in order to achieve technological supremecy and became a race of clones that are all slowly dying from a genetic disorder they can't fix that makes them become so apathetic that their bodies shut down.

Again, you can't get something for nothing, not even in science fiction. If you play a fleet civilization, please, please please take into account that it cannot be perfect. As I've always said there are no perfect nations. Use these tools and examples so that you're not just creating characters to play with, but giving your nation itself character and depth so that it isn't just 'Forerunner clone #2380708' or 'Quarian Clone #808984.

Now comes the part where I ask if I did it right:
1) My people first became a migrant fleet when a supernova wiped out all life on their home systems. This gave them a deep rooted fear of supernovas, and a general aversion to living on planets. Ironically, my people believe ships are far safer places to live then planets, despite ships being far easier to destroy.

2) In canon, my nation exists about 1500 years after my people first fled in ships. The "apocalypse" was before my nation was founded, my nation was founded I think about 80 years after the apocalypse, after like 90% of the survivors had already died on their ships. My nation was that moment you described where everyone resets after the disaster. Except, it still took some time before the population stabilized.

3. In case you were wondering how our government survived 1500 years... well, short answer is it didn't. Long answer is we adopted a direct democracy (It's more complicated, but it basically operates like the WA operates from a real life perspective). We can deal with current issues fairly quickly in a way most people agree with. That way, it's almost never the government's fault. Doesn't matter what the government really looks like beyond that: Socialist, Capitalist, Libertarian, Authoritarian, Big Government, Small Government, etc. As long as people feel they can change things without civil war, we're good.

4. Most of my people live on a giant ship built after my nation's founding. It is generally pretty open spaced, and mimics terrestrial conditions pretty well. However, the rest of my people do tend to live on cramped ships. I don't think they are all mentally stable.

5. Survival is still very much a part of national identity, though the culture has shifted to prioritize survival of the nation over personal survival. So we are generally immoral people willing to go to war and steal resources to survive, but we just don't kill and steal from each other (much).

6. Science combats disease. Vaccinations are mandatory, and applied quite liberally. Genetically engineered virus, about as infectious and deadly as the common cold, are regularly released on the populace. We do not want to be the Quarians. Granted, our immune systems are probably weaker than our Terrestrial counterparts, but at least we don't get sick from making out with people on our ship.

7) Resources are a major problem. In our modern fleets, we have a large number of scout ships, which survey thousands of star systems to select a dozen or so to queue up for mining with our main fleets, usually decades in advance. This makes our economy fairly predictable (In ten years, Aluminum will be abundant!), unless star states show up to claim systems we are scheduled to mine. I'm not an economist, so I don't really know what that would do.

8 ) And of course, all this took centuries to get right.

Downsides: A lot of our stuff is really old, but has been retrofitted, scrapped, reused, recycled, repaired, and upgraded. Our stuff is less reliable than it should be.
We also kind of stagnated technologically. Anything not solving a matter of survival got ignored, and we banned further research into the tech that makes our warp drives possible. Result is that we haven't made any significant advances in centuries, and can even be considered modern tech in some areas, notably our notoriously pathetic infantry forces.

[Taledonia]

Your idea of scouting out planets far in advance has stolen my attention. Would it not be a fun RP to actually have that happen? Show up to what is supposed to be a much needed "supply planet" and find someone else there already, leaving you in the difficult situation of fighting/trading for the resources or departing without them which might leave your fleet dangerously low on essentials?

I'd be interested, surely. But before Kyru comes a yelling about staying on topic and all that, I'll invite you to TG me if you're interested in setting something up.