CAPINTERN [Capitalist International] Alliance

[Allanea]

I believe you are being deliberately overly pessimistic.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I also forgot to mention the costs of nation embarrassment, which might easily account for 0.1% of trade over a decade (again, a few trillion).

And even if I'm being really pessimistic and all these figures are ten times too high, that's still hundreds of billions and that's still enough for the Ausitorian government to get excited about. Money doesn't grow on printing-presses - once inflationary effects are taken into account, anyway - and that's still the equivalent of a significant portion of Ausitoria's overseas aid budget.

[Allanea]

That you are OOC intending to retcon extensive RP over the loss of 0.1% of your nation's GDP is strange to me.

Literally the most that could happen if you sent police to Aravea to confiscate things is "they get arrested on the border" or "they don't get cleared for visas".

If you sent police to Allanea, and they got through border security - let's assume they did - it would still be impossible for them to confiscate anything of meaningful value. Even if I had not RPed an armed citizenry since the year 2003, the simple response of a corporate CEO to strange armed men turning up at his company headquarters would be "call the police", who would then turn up with armed SWAT teams. Even if somehow they defeated attack after attack by the local police, the state police, the military, etc.... no legal authority in Allanea would accept their ownership of the building. The power company would cut power, etc. Even if Clark Kent was an Ausitorian policeman, he could not meaningfully seize 3 trillion dollars of corporate properties. (Short of literally grabbing cash from people and carrying it home).

Yet you're suggesting that you will retcon ever having been a member of the alliance if you do not get to try doing this impossible thing in Aravea.

I am offering that - if you want to get an RP of this thing - to RP trying it with any other nation that has offered you to RP with you - me, Nachmere, and New Ayeariss.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Evidently you misunderstand me. Ausitorian police don't think they need visas if the Ausitorian court starts to rescind recognition of sovereignty. Nor do they need worry about being lawfully arrested: they can easily call upon military reinforcements to quell 'lawless attacks'.

And I think Aravea might have something to say (either OOCly or ICly) about a few Ausitorian divisions trying to confisticate parts of their nation to the value of $0.5-3 trillion, or however much it might be once the fuel expenses of the Ausitorian fleets are added to the total...

So, decision time! (There's really no hurry - take a whole month if you like).

Aravea: Since this is all turning into a dreadful mess, are you completely sure that you want to stick with something along the lines of your Primarch's post, or that you won't RP the pursuit of damages? I don't mind, it's your decision.

[New Aeyariss]

OOC: Ausitoria if you attack Aravea I will declare total war on you the moment you enter his - SOVEREIGN - territory. Certainly you have no idea how diplomacy works ( I wrote a guide about it last year, will link you it) nor how economic sanction work. Believe me, I will also bring whole SACTO with me, as my.guys are very eager to sack and rob your trade. Your OOC warring can be only clasified as metagaming - but even with it, touch Aravea and I will shame Blackbeard himself when I get to your trade.

And if you say "nuke" - we have much more of them than you.

[Allanea]

The cost of any serious war - which this will inevitably become - will obviously be far greater than 0.1% of your GDP.

[Allanea]

OOC: Please let's all calm down.

Do I consider war over this issue to be IC unreasonable? Yes. But nations do unreasonable shit all the time IRL.

So. Aravea, I am asking you as a friend. I realize you are a bit aqngry with Ausitoria right now.

But as a fellow roleplayer, I ask you to please accept this RP offer.

This is, while IC strange, a really fun idea. Let us all please roll with it.

[Aravea]

I swear can I not leave Ns for a few hours without this blowing up?

In any case with you insane escalation doctrine you are going to launch and invasion(in which you will inevitably be defeated) as well starting another inter alliance war to occupy parts of my country all so you can make up for .01% of your GDP? Ausitoria that is the quite the leap of logic you have there. More importantly though all of this hinges upon my willingness to accept yet another Aravean crisis style rp just so you can satisfy your bruised egp. To be honest, that is something I have no interest in doing at the present time for a multitude of reasons below and among,other things.

1. It would devolve into the same ooc lunacy that plagued the last rp I attempted with you.

2. It would more than likely kickoff another IFC-SACTO crisis

3. This is beyond blatant metagaming on your part.

4. Need I say it again that I do not care at the present moment.

5. Plus you would be attacking a state that had declared permanent neutrality.

To summarize the answer to your request for an rp is a resounding no from end. As for what you do with your interactions with SACTO and CAPINTERN that is your problem not mine.

[Allanea]

The drama is firmly among people who are non-members: L&A, who's just been ejected, and Aravea, who has just quit.

[Roski]

Nation name: Roski
Views on Capitalism: great if restricted
Nation population: 361,056,258
WA Government Classification: inoffensive central democracy
Economic level (WA): frightening
National political party in power: National Party
Current conflicts: none
Donation to CMFOU: 2.7bn/fy
Level of membership: Full (or not an observer)
Additional nations to be submitted under the IPA:

[Allanea]

Thank you Roski.

[United States of Conner]

Please not another IFC-SACTO war. We all know how well that went last time.

[Emmerian Republic]

We're not at war are we?

[Aravea]

We're not at war are we?

Not that I am aware of.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

[OOC: Blimey, I go away for a day and return to all this commotion.

Just as a little clarification, we are talking about c. 0.2-1.0% of GDP, so it can hardly be ignored. I expect it would be possible for Ausitoria to attempt to simply attain that sort of money without actually invading, perhaps by seizing Aravean shipping on the high seas/legally seizing assets in major financial havens and so on and so forth, or perhaps by surrounding Aravea's EEZ and putting a 5% tax on the country's seabourne trade, or any combination thereof.

But anyway, that's all a bit beside the point, since, just like Aravea, I have no interest in RPing war with SACTO - a war which, given some of their members' stupidly aggressive IC style and lack of OOC understanding of the limits of war, would probably leave most of NS glowing with radioactive ashes, not to mention severely disrupting the continuity of my friends in my region - clearly the military option is now also off the table unless SACTO change their tune? But I take it that even if SACTO did the unthinkable, Aravea does not wish to RP in that direction anyway?

So, Aravea, that leaves me with only one final question - should I take it you will not be modifying your Primarch's post, and so rendering Ausitoria's expulsion moot; or that your government will not be ICly backing down?

If not, much as I have enjoyed this RP so far, and would love to keep it in cannon; I really cannot see how any of the recent events can remain in cannon for all of us, as they would lead to something that I would consider unrealistic, or lead to something that most of you would consider unrealistic.

(That is always the problem with RPing without a clear idea of where the RP can go/is going).]

[Allanea]

1. There's no reason for war to lead to nukes. You can even agree in OOC beforehand not to use them.

2. ?I somehow doubt IFC will back you in the endeavor for war.

3. Have you seen this thread?

[New Nassrau]

My nation is going to withdraw so my puppet, who actually roleplays, can join, is that okay?

Sure although I don't mind you having more than 1 nation in CAPINTERN (it's explicitly permitted in the rules).

Oh, okay then!

[Rookanse]

Nation name: The Republic of Rookanse
Views on Capitalism: Necessary, but dangerous when uncontrolled
Nation population: 64,002,000
WA Government Classification: Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
Economic level (WA): Very Strong
National political party in power: Traditionalist Party
Current conflicts: None
Donation to CMFOU: 1.2 Billion
Level of membership: Full Member
Additional nations to be submitted under the IPA: N/A

(Btw, this is a puppet of New Nassrau. I pretty much RP with this nation, not my main one)

[Allanea]

Is the donation annual?

[The Ctan]

[OOC: Blimey, I go away for a day and return to all this commotion.

Just as a little clarification, we are talking about c. 0.2-1.0% of GDP, so it can hardly be ignored. I expect it would be possible for Ausitoria would attempt to simply attain that sort of money without actually invading, perhaps by seizing Aravean shipping on the high seas/legally seizing assets in major financial havens and so on and so forth, or perhaps by surrounding Aravea's EEZ and putting a 5% tax on the country's seabourne trade, or any combination thereof.

But anyway, that's all a bit beside the point, since, just like Aravea, I have no interest in RPing war with SACTO - a war which, given some of their members' stupidly aggressive IC style and lack of OOC understanding of the limits of war, would probably leave most of NS glowing with radioactive ashes, not to mention severely disrupting the continuity of my friends in my region - clearly the military option is now also off the table unless SACTO change their tune? But I take it that even if SACTO did the unthinkable, Aravea does not wish to RP in that direction anyway?

So, Aravea, that leaves me with only one final question - should I take it you will not be modifying your Primarch's post, and so rendering Ausitoria's expulsion moot; or that your government will not be ICly backing down?

If not, much as I have enjoyed this RP so far, and would love to keep it in cannon; I really cannot see how any of the recent events can remain in cannon for all of us, as they would lead to something that I would consider unrealistic, or lead to something that most of you would consider unrealistic.

(That is always the problem with RPing without a clear idea of where the RP can go/is going).]

I'm a stranger to this whole topic, but let me get this straight:

You want to RP efforts to recover a loss in your trade which you rate at 3 tn?

There are a number of other options to deal with this if Araeva doesn't wish to RP it with you.

1. The estimable prime minister of Knootoss has Offered a new trade agreement already that would offset your losses. You can of course take that.
2. I will write your population a cheque, as C'tan currently holds a vast stockpile of money earmarked to be disbursed to Prussian and Capintern member populations due to the sheer size of the previous surplus. Although Ausitorian-C'tani relations consist solely of your having shot a C'tani ambassador at one point, it can't be denied that you paid in and are thus entitled to a rebate.
3. You could blame CAPINTERN and raid CAPINTERN shared assets to try and recover your monies. I would happily play Imperial/CAPINTERN opposing forces for you.

Any of those options provide an IC resolution.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I'm a stranger to this whole topic, but let me get this straight:

You want to RP efforts to recover a loss in your trade which you rate at 3 tn?

A number in that sort of area. You know (better than most) just how Ausitorians like to arrest foreigners who they regard as having broken laws. Ausitoria has a rather different understanding of jurisdictions and sovereignty, due to the particular and peculiar circumstances of the development of their home region. No treaty of westphalia for them...

Anyway, thank you for your suggestions. I am aware of Knootoss' interesting offer (particularly interesting from an RP sense of course), but I rather suspect that the new trade agreement, being drawn up and signed by two rather unequal powers, would not present much material advantage to Ausitoria. But the second option, possibly in combination with the first, is intriguing - how much money would that come too?

There's no reason for war to lead to nukes. You can even agree in OOC beforehand not to use them.

I've tried that dozens of times: Ausitoria and SACTO members have a long history of failing to agree on how to fight. That's probably why Aravea doesn't want the same arguments again any more than I do...

[Allanea]

Fight me! Fight me instead!

[The Ctan]

Well, I'm non-Westphalian myself, but anyway,it seems like the proposed 3tn less the net economic gain of any other agreement entered into would be equitable, as mentioned, paid to the Ausitorian people in the form of tax relief, rather than paid to the Ausitorian government, naturally.

[Palmyrion]

NATION

Nation name: Federal Merito-Technocratic Republic of Palmyrion
Views on Capitalism:

Capitalism is, in any sense, a success in the control of distribution of goods, and works on the much-needed principle of "Work and eat, be lazy and go hungry.". Capitalism has pushed humanity forward by a great extent, but there are two people as defined by capitalism: the thief and the giver. The thief is a greedy entity, who enslaves people into producing money as if they poop money-for short, capitalism's bad/dark side, and shall be erased, so as to save capitalism from falling into corruption. The thief takes what little the less powerful have, and while the thief has full stomachs, the people they stole from are dying in hunger. On the other hand, we have the giver, those who use capitalism in a way to help the less powerful. The giver is he who uses capitalism the way it was supposed to be done.

Nation population: I follow NS stats
WA Government Classification: Democratic Socialists
Economic level (WA): 82, and thriving
National political party in power: Of the five prominent parties, it's the Democrats
Current conflicts: None, but we are currently fighting slavers in southwest Palmyrion.
Donation to CMFOU: If anything, some nations contribute at least $1 billion. I'll also contribute $1 billion for Capintern,
Level of membership: Full
Additional nations to be submitted under the IPA: None

Other notes: if anything, I ave not yet joined in any RP in International Incidents, but I can provide you with an RP sample, from P2TM forums:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=335332&p=24142881&sid=f851cb0239580949b619797dae5e8848#p24142881

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Well, I'm non-Westphalian myself, but anyway,it seems like the proposed 3tn less the net economic gain of any other agreement entered into would be equitable, as mentioned, paid to the Ausitorian people in the form of tax relief, rather than paid to the Ausitorian government, naturally.

Excellent. Thank you very much! Everything should be able to stay nicely IC for us all then. The courts will no doubt be arguing over the precise figures down to the last dollar for several months, if not years, but that's hardly something any of us are likely to have the time (or IC information) to RP, given the always shifting sands of continuity.

Would you like to RP your offer, or shall we take it as read/to be read?