Maroon Revolution [DIPLOMATIC|MT+|SEMI-OPEN|OOC]

[Gauliscia]

Ehh, they just be running around disrupting your poets and stuff. Still up for moriarty being 'napd?

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I think Moriarty's been 'napd by the IFC already (when Ardoki was co-operating and there was so much promise). Although you might be able to counter-nap him at World Vision, if he gets permission to go.

Ardoki, I think I've edited the Ausitorian end of the Maroon Revolution IC thread - other than the meeting, I don't think anything on your end needs to be retconned.

Do you want to make a statement in the council before my ministry 'officially accepts the first act of Ardoki's new government'? And should we take it the investigation has now been effectively stopped?

[Ardoki]

I guess this. Our government intended to negotiate the terms of the resolution before it would approve; therefore, it would reject the interpretation of the resolution that some members of the IFC support. Ardoki probably would have peacefully resigned just after the resolution was passed.

Ok. Does this modified version of the newspaper report seem about right? If so I don't suppose the idea of a referendum gained any traction, did it?

There would be no use even considering a constitutional referendum, it would require a two-thirds supermajority from both all eligible voters and the Grand Legislative Assembly before coming to the President (who may request changes, before being forced to sign it). However, I doubt you would even get near 10% public support for whatever is proposed; so, I wouldn't try proposing it, it will only make the people feel more threatened.

I think Moriarty's been 'napd by the IFC already (when Ardoki was co-operating and there was so much promise). Although you might be able to counter-nap him at World Vision, if he gets permission to go.

Ardoki, I think I've edited the Ausitorian end of the Maroon Revolution IC thread - other than the meeting, I don't think anything on your end needs to be retconned.

Do you want to make a statement in the council before my ministry 'officially accepts the first act of Ardoki's new government'? And should we take it the investigation has now been effectively stopped?

The investigation may continue; though, we'll make an official statement shortly.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Well if Ardoki can't respond to a full blown offensive and we still can't decide if there are IFC peace-keeping forces on ground already or not (I personally believe there are); then the Aanglandian insurgency should be put on hold.

It's only fair.

[Ardoki]

Well if Ardoki can't respond to a full blown offensive and we still can't decide if there are IFC peace-keeping forces on ground already or not (I personally believe there are); then the Aanglandian insurgency should be put on hold.

It's only fair.

Okay then.

[Pillowlandia]

I just tagging this to keep an eye on this ever evolving mess.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Ardoki, did you get permission from the Judicial Committee for Moriarty to go to WorldVision, or are you trying to get me to remove you entirely from the IFC's continuity?

[Ardoki]

Moriarty will be going to WorldVision shortly. Make it happen!

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

You can't just tell someone to make it happen if they don't want it to happen. You have to actually make it happen yourself. I take it you did not ask for permission? If so, how on earth did Moriarty escape a high security Ausitorian prison to attend WorldVision?

[Ardoki]

You can't just tell someone to make it happen if they don't want it to happen. You have to actually make it happen yourself. I take it you did not ask for permission? If so, how on earth did Moriarty escape a high security Ausitorian prison to attend WorldVision?

Elder Dance Crew broke him out, obviously.

I allowed him to teleport to the IFC conference on the assumption that he would still be able to perform at WorldVision; however, since the IFC will no longer be holding his trial, he will be coming back to Ardoki to face justice.

[Pillowlandia]

You can't just tell someone to make it happen if they don't want it to happen. You have to actually make it happen yourself. I take it you did not ask for permission? If so, how on earth did Moriarty escape a high security Ausitorian prison to attend WorldVision?

Elder Dance Crew broke him out, obviously.

I allowed him to teleport to the IFC conference on the assumption that he would still be able to perform at WorldVision; however, since the IFC will no longer be holding his trial, he will be coming back to Ardoki to face justice.

I call BS to the extreme on that matter. Given that he had been arrested days prior to making, the rather unneeded, appearance at the summit and thus would be under IFC armed guard. He would not have been able to leave of his own accord. You would have had little to no say in his handling.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

You can't just tell someone to make it happen if they don't want it to happen. You have to actually make it happen yourself. I take it you did not ask for permission? If so, how on earth did Moriarty escape a high security Ausitorian prison to attend WorldVision?

I allowed him to teleport to the IFC conference on the assumption that he would still be able to perform at WorldVision

Why didn't you say so? As I've already said, I'm not sure the IFC would have let Moriarty go to WorldVision - the matter being a question for the Judicial Committee. If they do not accept the condition, then Moriarty never left Ardoki in the first place, and there will be a spot of retconning to do, and an invasion of Ardoki to replace the contents of our posts with.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Anyway, as Pillowlandia points out, even if the Judicial Committee had let him go to WorldVision, he would obviously have been under parole (and a guard, and probably with a tracking device surgically inserted into him for good measure), so I'd prefer you to RP his escape attempt before making premature announcements about it.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

I allowed him to teleport to the IFC conference on the assumption that he would still be able to perform at WorldVision; however, since the IFC will no longer be holding his trial, he will be coming back to Ardoki to face justice.

Does this not signify that you assented to the due process of IFC legislation?:

Well, an Ausitorian court would probably find Moriarty a lunatic (depending on the availability of evidence), and would probably consign him to a mental prison/hospital; and Ausitorian doctors in charge might let Moriarty go to WorldVision on compassionate grounds (i.e., lunatics should be happy, and Moriarty is clearly happy in front of a crowd, and also isn't doing very much harm in front of a crowd. Although having said that, it would be a terrible example of how to become a celebrity).

But it's not an Ausitorian court that he's going to be put before.

So as for an IFC court, I can't say... ask Novo Wagondia and Flardania.

Thanks. I'll have to desperately petition them.

And anyway, who said anything about the IFC not going ahead with the trial?

[Flardania]

Anyway, as Pillowlandia points out, even if the Judicial Committee had let him go to WorldVision, he would obviously have been under parole (and a guard, and probably with a tracking device surgically inserted into him for good measure), so I'd prefer you to RP his escape attempt before making premature announcements about it.

I do not know about my fellow Judiciary Committee members but like hell I would send a suspected war criminal to world vision. (Like sending Hitler to Eurovision). In fact I was waiting for such a thing to come before us ICly

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Thanks. Novo Wagondia, what's your opinion?

Basically it's down to Novo Wagondia and Flardania (who I just TGed) about whether the Judicial Committee would have let Moriarty attend WorldVision.

If the answer's no, I'll be willing to help Ardoki retcon everything involving Moriarty being brought to the IFC without getting too massively annoyed at the disruption.

If yes, there's still the question of how exactly Moriarty would have managed to escape; which will require some consultation regarding the venue, and probably require EMPs, sleeping gas, stunt doubles, and that sort of thing.

[Guadalupador]

I will retcon my posts in the Counsil as well.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Thanks. Ardoki, if Novo Wagondia does decide that WorldVision is impossible, will you require us to retcon these matters?

Alternatively, would you like to try a prison break-out? (If sufficiently well organized, you could even try to present fake papers to allow Moriarty to go to WorldVision). I doubt it's impossible to break out of prisons, whether they be Wagondian, Flardanian, or Ausitorian?

[Shazbotdom]

I call utter and complete bullshit Ardoki.


You can expect me to join the blockade of your nation. And it will not be with just one small battlegroup, I will do it now with two of my largest battlegroups.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Don't want to say "I told you so!", but who am I kidding?

I told you so!!!

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

And I don't like to say it, but ....

As one final remark on the matter, there seems to be some equally idiotic idea that the IFC did something wrong. It is never wrong to try to make the world a better place, and anybody who says otherwise deserves to be hung until half dead, have their innards drawn, and be quartered into four pieces with a rusty saw - after exhausting negotiations to see if you can change their mind.

(Of course, I presume you're not seriously suggesting that one shouldn't try to make the world a better place...?)

[Inyourfaceistan]

And I'll just assume that wasn't an intentional misrepresentation of what I was implying.

Just because one is criticizing the methods and mocking the outcome of those methods doesn't mean they are criticizing the cause...

[Ardoki]

When I was invited to apply for IFC membership, I was under the assumption that what had previously been discussed (IFC advisers and observers/monitors to oversee the process of reform, and possibly a small peacekeeping force in Aanglandia) were the requirements for Ardokian membership in the IFC. I can receiving assurances, which I still believe were made with honesty.

However, some member-states in the IFC made ridiculous demands which my government could never accept (OOCly, I wasn't too thrilled with the surprise new conditions, but was nonetheless willing to negotiate). I don't blame anyone, least of all L&A, who was forced to go along with the unreasonable demands.

In the end, the IFC weren't able to meet our government's compromise; so Ardokian membership in the International Freedom Coalition. A major part of what I offered in exchange to being accepted into the IFC (with the original requirements I was aware of), was an IFC trial into the past Ardokian crimes.

However, as Ardoki is no longer a member of the IFC, the IFC Judicial Committee has no legal authority to hold the trials (the only recognised organisation which would have power to do that, would be the World Assembly, which some countries don't recognise; the IFC can only control its member-states, it has no power over broader NS). So Ardoki will be forced to hold the trials itself, as no other organisation has the theoretical authority (apart from possibly the WA).

I'm not angry or upset; however, I never would have even thought of applying to the IFC if I knew what would be demanded of my country. I'm fine with sacrificing some power over our country if it's a member-state of an international organisation, but I would never go anywhere near as far as what was forced onto us after we had applied and been accepted.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

That's all very well, but the salient question at the moment, other than whether Novo Wagondia would have approved WorldVision on compassionate grounds, is whether Moriarty et al. would have been handed over to the IFC in the brief window of time that the IFC investigation had power in Ardoki? I certainly suspect that Flardania/Ausitoria/Novo Wagondia would have sent investigators instantly to Moriarty's location to take charge when they found it out.

Just because one is criticizing the methods and mocking the outcome of those methods doesn't mean they are criticizing the cause...

It could have worked. It very nearly did. SACTO and the ASDLP managed to sabotage it by both being a little too inflexible, so now, let them fight, in punishment for their own idiocy.

[Pillowlandia]

When I was invited to apply for IFC membership, I was under the assumption that what had previously been discussed (IFC advisers and observers/monitors to oversee the process of reform, and possibly a small peacekeeping force in Aanglandia) were the requirements for Ardokian membership in the IFC. I can receiving assurances, which I still believe were made with honesty.

However, some member-states in the IFC made ridiculous demands which my government could never accept (OOCly, I wasn't too thrilled with the surprise new conditions, but was nonetheless willing to negotiate). I don't blame anyone, least of all L&A, who was forced to go along with the unreasonable demands.

In the end, the IFC weren't able to meet our government's compromise; so Ardokian membership in the International Freedom Coalition. A major part of what I offered in exchange to being accepted into the IFC (with the original requirements I was aware of), was an IFC trial into the past Ardokian crimes.

However, as Ardoki is no longer a member of the IFC, the IFC Judicial Committee has no legal authority to hold the trials (the only recognised organisation which would have power to do that, would be the World Assembly, which some countries don't recognise; the IFC can only control its member-states, it has no power over broader NS). So Ardoki will be forced to hold the trials itself, as no other organisation has the theoretical authority (apart from possibly the WA).

I'm not angry or upset; however, I never would have even thought of applying to the IFC if I knew what would be demanded of my country. I'm fine with sacrificing some power over our country if it's a member-state of an international organisation, but I would never go anywhere near as far as what was forced onto us after we had applied and been accepted.

Again, those were temporary measures to ensure that reforms were truly made. Thus your argument is seriously lacking in credibility.