International Freedom Coalition (SignUp2/OOC)

[Krjder]

Well, either SACTO replies or I'm leaving the boring way..

[Common Territories]

I never thought I'd say this (considering how I hard I argued against it), but Atlas' canon split is looking awfully tempting now.

I know the feeling. I never thought I'd say this (considering how I vetoed it), but Hemithea's proposed canon split is also looking awfully tempting...

Should we name SACTO the destroyer of NS continuity, open RPs, and cosmopolitanism?

So says Mr. "I want to nuke you for trying to use cyber warfare against me". So sorry if I don't see eye to eye with you, but weren't you the one who pretty much killed the last RP by trying to nuke SACTO for the smallest of reasons? Is it me or do all these arguments originate from you? Since day one you wanted to nuke somebody, and behold somebody is trying to nuke us. Cause even in the Sacto Public chat everything was going perfect; we had rules up, everyone agreed, and then you spoiled it by proclaiming you had to nuke SACTO because it was part of your doctrine. In my honest opinion, you are the source of all this damn fighting since you are always the one talking for launching nukes. Congrats though - you got your wish finally.

[Torrumbarry]

Please sign my petition, for the sake of the role playing community over anything else...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=336674

[Roski]

Serves you right. I shall expect you to RP the effects properly or retcon the entire RP.

Oh I will be. I will be shooting them down correctly and then glassing his ass with Satan's unholy grace. There's going to be nothing left but rubble, radiation, and charred melting corpses.

"Shooting them down correctly" is not shooting them down at all. ICBMs move at speeds that nothing else matches

[New Aeyariss]

Do not argue me for this rant, but I simply have to write what do I feel, and how the situation looks like. For starters - SACTO are people who yeah, are warmongers. We love fighting our enemies, but to fight you need to have an enemy. At some point we lacked suitable opponents - UL was cannon split, SAA was gone, and killing those pesky Dorians was not exactly enough. So when the Argent Sun happened, we took the chance.

We took the chance and then we went on to fight you. War of Wrath could have been fun if not UL-influenced lies and attempts to put us all against each other OOCly. I believe, this is where the problem originates - war of wrath ending in such way has caused permanent rift in OOC relations. And I will not deny, IFC was only decent foe around whom SACTO could fight at that point. You were only alliance with enough members to combat us. So we were going after you. "Kaboona" then few more threads... usually failed, SACTO searched for opponents elsewhere but we did not had them . There was simply nobody to fight, and time from January to early March was one of most boring times in SACTO. We were left with nothing to do, actually.

Souriya Al-Assad promised to return. While he is PMT and numberwanker, I at least would have had a foe to fight, because as they speak in Poland, "better mushroom than nothing".

So I admit - we wanted to fight IFC again. Aravean Coup gave us the chance, but it soon became clear that old truth is still on.

We can not cooperate, simply as that.

The OOC hate is rooted in both of us actually too deeply. Even if we want to stop and cooperate to have a fun RP - it occured to me we simply can not have that.

I am not saying SACTO is blameless. You should see those days on SACTO chat when the Western Vale Confederacy and Allied Connurist States were writing their insults against us. I admit - few things that I did were out of anger. I admit - few IFC members really pissed me off OOCly?

How can this be cured?

Well - I will say to be honest. You can not re-assemble a broken egg.

[New Aeyariss]

Well, when some SACTO members see a liberal, they immediately start yelling 'communists!' until eventually all of Ausitorian society starts rolling around on the floor laughing and handing out drama awards.

But I'm a Liberal

Am I a Commie?

@Ausitoria - you even heard words distinguishing "between OOC and IC" and second "propaganda"? Look it up. Should help.

[North Yemen-]

I'll defend both parties now.

Most of this boils down to Inyursta's constant harrryinh of me. My only real anger is for him. New Aeyariss, you've bugged me ICly, but I like you OOCly, you're a really nice guy. But I'm fed up of SACTO's warmongering. So, like one might throw sticks at a wasps nest expecting some resistance but laughable at that, I'm about to unleash the swarm. Those ICBMs are a mere warning, a last chance for you to backdown.

Krjder, doubtless will go down in flames. Centuries of culture, history and bravery flushed away, but hopefully SACTO have learned a small lesson. I've got RL stuff to deal with, now is an opportunity to let Krjder go.

Wait, you're nuking us? Why..?

Indeed. Why don't we all focus on working together and fighting the organizations that are really screwing things up if we want to fight somebody?

Well, when some SACTO members see a liberal, they immediately start yelling 'communists!' until eventually all of Ausitorian society starts rolling around on the floor laughing and handing out drama awards.

I had no idea I held such views against liberals; being a state socialist nation, and borderline Marxist-lenninist, I'd say that this isn't true.

I never thought I'd say this (considering how I hard I argued against it), but Atlas' canon split is looking awfully tempting now.

I know the feeling. I never thought I'd say this (considering how I vetoed it), but Hemithea's proposed canon split is also looking awfully tempting...

Should we name SACTO the destroyer of NS continuity, open RPs, and cosmopolitanism?

Wow! I never knew my goal was to destroy the NS community and freeform RP! Thanks for letting me know that!

Oh I will be. I will be shooting them down correctly and then glassing his ass with Satan's unholy grace. There's going to be nothing left but rubble, radiation, and charred melting corpses.

"Shooting them down correctly" is not shooting them down at all. ICBMs move at speeds that nothing else matches

ICBMs can still (theoretically) be shot down. They may be fast, but considering the vastness of the NS world, it's certainly not impossible.

[Krjder]

Do not argue me for this rant, but I simply have to write what do I feel, and how the situation looks like. For starters - SACTO are people who yeah, are warmongers. We love fighting our enemies, but to fight you need to have an enemy. At some point we lacked suitable opponents - UL was cannon split, SAA was gone, and killing those pesky Dorians was not exactly enough. So when the Argent Sun happened, we took the chance.

We took the chance and then we went on to fight you. War of Wrath could have been fun if not UL-influenced lies and attempts to put us all against each other OOCly. I believe, this is where the problem originates - war of wrath ending in such way has caused permanent rift in OOC relations. And I will not deny, IFC was only decent foe around whom SACTO could fight at that point. You were only alliance with enough members to combat us. So we were going after you. "Kaboona" then few more threads... usually failed, SACTO searched for opponents elsewhere but we did not had them . There was simply nobody to fight, and time from January to early March was one of most boring times in SACTO. We were left with nothing to do, actually.

Souriya Al-Assad promised to return. While he is PMT and numberwanker, I at least would have had a foe to fight, because as they speak in Poland, "better mushroom than nothing".

So I admit - we wanted to fight IFC again. Aravean Coup gave us the chance, but it soon became clear that old truth is still on.

We can not cooperate, simply as that.

The OOC hate is rooted in both of us actually too deeply. Even if we want to stop and cooperate to have a fun RP - it occured to me we simply can not have that.

I am not saying SACTO is blameless. You should see those days on SACTO chat when the Western Vale Confederacy and Allied Connurist States were writing their insults against us. I admit - few things that I did were out of anger. I admit - few IFC members really pissed me off OOCly?

How can this be cured?

Well - I will say to be honest. You can not re-assemble a broken egg.

He's right. Both sides have fault. But, SACTO should tone down on their warmongering. Perhaps after my next post they will..

[Common Territories]

Oh I will be. I will be shooting them down correctly and then glassing his ass with Satan's unholy grace. There's going to be nothing left but rubble, radiation, and charred melting corpses.

"Shooting them down correctly" is not shooting them down at all. ICBMs move at speeds that nothing else matches

Roski, before going back to Atlas RMB and mocking me for the one-hundredth time, try reading up on anti-ballistic missile defenses, missiles, and technology. You'll be shocked to know there are ways to stop ballistic missiles and exactly how wrong you are.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

So says Mr. "I want to nuke you for trying to use cyber warfare against me".

I simply warn about escalation. It is a great escalation to have your country cease to function, even if only by a cyber attack. In any modern capitalist society, people do get hurt if their economy ceases to function: in fact, I'd argue a cyber-attack, if done properly, is actually worse than a small nuclear attack.

The difference between us, I think, is that you (and perhaps other SACTO members) seem to be prepared to destroy RPers (or their work) for RPs. I am prepared to instead destroy RPs for RPers (or their work). I think my way is better: RPs are easily replaceable/changeable. RPers and nations aren't.

@Ausitoria - you even heard words distinguishing "between OOC and IC" and second "propaganda"? Look it up. Should help.

I thought Mizrad was suggesting a solution which would require our nations got on ICly.

[Yalos]

So says Mr. "I want to nuke you for trying to use cyber warfare against me".

I simply warn about escalation. It is a great escalation to have your country cease to function, even if only by a cyber attack. In any modern capitalist society, people do get hurt if their economy ceases to function: in fact, I'd argue a cyber-attack, if done properly, is actually worse than a small nuclear attack.

The difference between us, I think, is that you (and perhaps other SACTO members) seem to be prepared to destroy RPers (or their work) for RPs. I am prepared to instead destroy RPs for RPers (or their work). I think my way is better: RPs are easily replaceable/changeable. RPers and nations aren't.

@Ausitoria - you even heard words distinguishing "between OOC and IC" and second "propaganda"? Look it up. Should help.

I thought Mizrad was suggesting a solution which would require our nations got on ICly.

It's nice to know that you take IC actions to pursue OOC ambitions and aims.

[Krjder]

Right then...

Seeing as SACTO is going to retcon the thread, therefore Krjder remains inscathed, I hereby announce that:.....



I'm just going to leave regardless to get on with RL stuff. It's a tad inconvenient I know for some people, some people have even shown some emotional regard toward me and are somewhat upset that I am leaving. But, I need to leave Krjder and nation states. I don't plan on returning, but if I do, it won't be via Krjder.

Goodbye, and good luck.

[Common Territories]

So says Mr. "I want to nuke you for trying to use cyber warfare against me".

I simply warn about escalation. It is a great escalation to have your country cease to function, even if only by a cyber attack. In any modern capitalist society, people do get hurt if their economy ceases to function: in fact, I'd argue a cyber-attack, if done properly, is actually worse than a small nuclear attack.

The difference between us, I think, is that you (and perhaps other SACTO members) seem to want to destroy RPers (or their work) for RPs. I destroy RPs for RPers (or their work). I think my way is better: RPs are easily replaceable/changeable. RPers and nations aren't.

@Ausitoria - you even heard words distinguishing "between OOC and IC" and second "propaganda"? Look it up. Should help.

I thought Mizrad was suggesting a solution which would require our nations got on ICly.

Don't give me that excuse. You've been spouting for days on end that you would nuke us. Everyone here seen it and knows that part of you.

And before you accuse me of wanting to destroy RPers and RPs, you know nothing about me. I have spent years on NS helping new RPers, anyone with questions I help answer them, I've even did art for people for free. I have spent countless hours helping people on this site to write as I believe anyone can be an excellent writer if they try hard enough and are willing to learn. That's why I run a storefront, that's why I am happy to always answer questions people may have, and I try my best to help people out on NS. If you honestly believe I am here to destroy RPers because I have to power to, then you do not truly know who I am.

[New Aeyariss]

Looks like some people have OOC problems with what is IC problem.

We won't Krjder - as I said before, we are going to retcon it and go after people who are willing to fight us not start nuclear apocalypse over damn cyberattack .

(reference - 2007 attack on Estonia did not cause all-out war between Estonia and Russia nor Estonia had collapsed and degenerated into failed state).

@Austoria: I was speaking about "liberal-commie" factor. You do not go to war to fight gentlemen, you have to hate your enemy with whole your heart. Heck, even USA does that (why captain America fought soviets in every single issue in `80s? USA are really masters at propaganda).

But it seems that you have not heard of "Information warfare" or ""PSYOPS".

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Don't give me that excuse. You've been spouting for days on end that you would nuke us.

Blimey, did you really all fall for that? I was very careful with my wording.

If you honestly believe I am here to destroy RPers because I have to power to, then you do not truly know who I am.

While you may not be consciously out to do it, why do SACTO members seem to try to destroy others, without caring about their OOC feelings?

Goodbye, and good luck.

Farewell!

[New Aeyariss]

@Ausitoria we never tried to "destroy" others except in one case, but that RPer (no, it is not Krjder) had a loooong history with us .

[Common Territories]

Don't give me that excuse. You've been spouting for days on end that you would nuke us.

Blimey, did you really all fall for that? I was very careful with my wording.

If you honestly believe I am here to destroy RPers because I have to power to, then you do not truly know who I am.

While you may not be consciously out to do it, why do SACTO members seem to try to destroy others, without caring about their OOC feelings?

Goodbye, and good luck.

Farewell!

I believe Cusc has already stated many times that SACTO has never forced anyone to RP with SACTO nor tried to destroy the writer. I am not there to plan things, but I know he and other SACTO people want a war RP that's good and developed. Im only there in RP to write as that's what I enjoy doing. I think Cusc can better explain this, but SACTO OOC does not seek to ruin writing for anyone not aligned to it.

[Iraqistan Republic]

viewtopic.php?p=24153452#p24153452

Could I have any back up on this? I meed to ascertain that this isn't bad.

[Inyourfaceistan]

I'll defend both parties now.

Most of this boils down to Inyursta's constant harrryinh of me. My only real anger is for him. New Aeyariss, you've bugged me ICly, but I like you OOCly, you're a really nice guy. But I'm fed up of SACTO's warmongering. So, like one might throw sticks at a wasps nest expecting some resistance but laughable at that, I'm about to unleash the swarm. Those ICBMs are a mere warning, a last chance for you to backdown.

Krjder, doubtless will go down in flames. Centuries of culture, history and bravery flushed away, but hopefully SACTO have learned a small lesson. I've got RL stuff to deal with, now is an opportunity to let Krjder go.

What have I ever done to you, save this past instance?
When was the last time Inyursta blew up boatloads of *white* people for *not* having Ak-47's?
When was the last time Inyurstan agents infiltrated the Krjdan capital and made a move on your emperor?
When was the last time Inyursta almost went into a head-on war with Krjder's major regional ally in defense of a communist?

I'm sorry, other than OOC anti-colonialist and anti-monarchist rhetoric, which FYI you aren't the only monarcho-colonialist nation here, I haven't really done anything to you.

He's right. Both sides have fault. But, SACTO should tone down on their warmongering. Perhaps after my next post they will..

See I don't think you understand what happens when ICBM's get launched...

An ICBM isn't a cyber attack.
An ICBM isn't a conventional attack.
An ICBM isn't a tactical WMD attack.
An ICBM is entirely a strategic-level WMD attack. Once an ICBM gets launched there is no turning back, because every rational entity assumes an ICBM is strategic nuclear.

So in short you have passed the point of no return. The question now is what shall be retconed?

[Aigeantir]

Okay, everybody just calm down for a moment, please! (And yes, I realize that no one has posted in a while, but it's the spirit that counts)

From what I've read, Krjder is leaving regardless, and it's a shame to see him go.

That being said... good God, the back-and-forth BS is getting really annoying! Okay, I might not have the same level of time and history as others within the IFC, and I can tell you right now that I have no deep-rooted anger against SACTO, because honestly it's just a game at the end of the day! To be honest, I think that we, the IFC, should be seeing SACTO's interest in us as a compliment, as it means that, as Cusc said, there really isn't much else that measures up to them in challenge.

This is not me even trying to stroke the egos of the more vocal SACTO members, just merely an observation, but in all fairness, some of the things that Cusc said in his rant seems correct from my own observations, while I think painting everyone with the same brush is incorrect. IFC generally hasn't been overly interested in engaging in a battle because we're still a defensive pact. Most of those who have joined are joining us for the reasons of mutual defense, and not because we have an imperialistic or aggressive policy against nations that are undemocratic or lacking in freedoms. Part of this is out of respect for National Sovereignty, part of this is because, yeah, we've got a higher number of centrist-liberal nations active at the moment, who are becoming the majority voice.

I have been encouraging and interested in improving and preserving OOC relations, but with too many fresh wounds from the last big OOC blow up, I've been tip-toeing around this issue, chipping away at opportunities to RP with SACTO members either personally, or in an IFC capacity, in a way that would not be going against SACTO. It's been my belief that being a friend to them helps us all, and why I've been open to the idea of IC involvement with them. Unfortunately, we're trying to do several things at once, and this might be where we're getting bogged down. We're acting as a defensive alliance, with some of these members being driven to us because "a friend of theirs" who had dealings with SACTO encouraged them to seek out protection, we've fallen into the role of wanting to create a safe community for newer and less experienced RPers, yet going against SACTO is like throwing them into the deep end, and then there's some of us (myself included) who prefer diplomacy to warfare, and pride ourselves on trying to find a way that doesn't lead to war. I do it, since I'm an island nation with a military too small to stand against much on its own, others do it for similar or differing reasons.

Yes, I would like to preserve relations with SACTO as much as possible, and I don't believe ignoring them, or performing actions that contradict our own values, just to get even with them, will ever amount to anything in the long run.

Sorry if this lost some cohesion, but I've got a million messages I just read over going through my head. I hope I explained my observations clearly enough.

[Inyourfaceistan]

From what I've read, Krjder is leaving regardless, and it's a shame to see him go.

This seems to be the case.

That being said... good God, the back-and-forth BS is getting really annoying! Okay, I might not have the same level of time and history as others within the IFC, and I can tell you right now that I have no deep-rooted anger against SACTO, because honestly it's just a game at the end of the day!

I can tell you right now most of us have no deep-rooted anger against the IFC.

[Aigeantir]

From what I've read, Krjder is leaving regardless, and it's a shame to see him go.

This seems to be the case.

That being said... good God, the back-and-forth BS is getting really annoying! Okay, I might not have the same level of time and history as others within the IFC, and I can tell you right now that I have no deep-rooted anger against SACTO, because honestly it's just a game at the end of the day!

I can tell you right now most of us have no deep-rooted anger against the IFC.

Sorry, I never meant to make that suggestion, besides I might find ya'll might be super intense about RPing, but OOCly I have a lot of respect for you all, and in fact find you all very level-headed individuals

[New Aeyariss]

This seems to be the case.



I can tell you right now most of us have no deep-rooted anger against the IFC.

Sorry, I never meant to make that suggestion, besides I might find ya'll might be super intense about RPing, but OOCly I have a lot of respect for you all, and in fact find you all very level-headed individuals

Thank you. We really appreciate that.

[New Aeyariss]

What do you think about my government?

[Ardoki]

What do you think about my government?

Brilliant.

If it weren't for your semi-autocracy, it would be a good system compared to most democratic countries.