AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Chrinthanium]

Is there anyone left in AMW interested in a character RP? Something that doesn't necessarily involve warships or explosions? Something where you can use either existing characters or newly-minted characters to RP something that doesn't require the United Nations or an act of the national legislature?

[Amerique]

If we're still doing the Pacific Island RP, my claim was for French Polynesia as an American state named Insí MacAdaim (MacAdams Islands in English, Îles MacAdams in French) with Samoa (Samoa and American Samoa) and Tonga as independent republics under explicit American military protection since their liberation in the Great War. If French Polynesia would cause an issue, I would request the Hawaiian Islands as Insí Haváís with Mokupuni o Hawai‘e in brackets beside. The main concept behind this is to have a state of the American Republic as a halfway point between the trading city-state of Phucket and the North American markets but also as a base for operations in the Asia-Pacific theater which was involved in fighting during the Pacific War against Japan. I had originally gone for French Polynesia as it could have been acquired as a colony earlier by American privateers due to its proximity to the Magellan Strait to the Atlantic (and indeed historically, the Americans arrived and claimed the Marquesas Islands as the "Washington Islands" in 1791 and again in 1813. With Hawai'i, the history I wrote earlier could just be pushed forward to the 19th century and not be a conquest of war, but rather the result of a battle of influence over the local King with the Walmingtonians until the negotiations at the end of the Détente War arranged for American influence to take hold with agreements against any further American maritime expansionism against British spheres of influence and the criminalization of cross-border Fenian raids from the American Republic into British North America which had occurred before the Détente War.

I was thinking New York would instead have been changed to Nua Eabhrac in Gaelic after the Revolution with "Nouvelle-Évorque" as the principal American French name to reflect the Celtic origins of the placename York. I'll come up with a list of city names or a more in-depth map of national subdivisions some time later. As well, Les Azures in the Mid-Atlantic would just have a (Insí Dúghorm) beside the name to reflect the bilingual nature.

Oh, about the Roman colonies, just a small note as I don't really know Latin but I think that Insulae would go first in the names of the island chains, as I believe it is that way in most Romance languages.

I'll start with the last note first....

The language would have gone through changes in 2,000 years. That, and there were references by Pliny to the "Canariae Insulae" in that order, so I just rolled with it. I suppose in AMW, Latin can be what I want it to be within some logical reasoning

Regarding American place names, I went with what I saw in your factbook. So, that's where they all came from. If you're changing some things around, I'd be happy to update your place names with any list your furnish either in here or through TG. That's easy to do.

Now, French Polynesia. I'm not entirely sure what your claims are in the Pacific and, as evidenced by the change internally, your factbook is out of date. So anything I went by when deciding what to take came from the lack of claims currently listed in factbooks (this is why I have, from time to time, put out the call for factbook updated-ness). This being said, and I am one to verify before I speak these days, after a careful search through the threads, Amerique is correct that he added French Polynesia as per this post from 2012 and somehow I missed than when looking through here for what I could claim. Thus, I will strike them from the Roman Empire which is pretty easy since I just wrote the factbook post earlier today.

Now, of course this makes me wonder what the Romans could claim instead in the Pacific Ocean as a spring board to San Diego. I suppose we could just use the Bahamas, involve ourselves in the Gulf States, then into California, but I believe that wouldn't exactly jive with Ian's history. It appears to be a landing-and-subsequent-Catholic-Mission-run-amok scenario. So, since Mod already has French Polynesia as I pointed out, and he went either/or on Hawaii, I think I'd like to make Hawaii a Roman Province. A hard and fast claim on Hawaii, that is. Not for RPing a scenario in the Pacific, but the spring board of the Roman influence in North America. All it takes is redirecting Magellan a few thousand miles towards Hawaii instead of other locales he visited IRL and it's an early enough entry point to San Diego.

Ah, that line of reasoning re: French Polynesia certainly does make sense. If it was claimed for the Imperial crown by Ferdinand Magellan, and the claim maintained by the Romans, it would certainly makes sense that Magellan would hit French Polynesia first after crossing the Straits of Magellan in around where British Patagonia is right now. Perhaps it would be best for me to switch to Hawaii as the American colony came much later during the Victorian Age and wouldn't require the urgency of French Polynesia while providing the same purpose of increasing battles of influence with the British in the 19th century and, especially with the American funding of the Zion Canal, a base of operations against the Japanese in the 20th and a halfway point to Drapol later. You are free to claim French Polynesia, of course. As far as the placenames go, it was not to be a rebuke but just as requests for name changes in light of differences from the old factbook, you're more than right in using the factbook as a reference point where none else existed. Thanks, Chrin.

EDIT: I would actually be interested in a character RP, lol.

[Chrinthanium]

I'll start with the last note first....

The language would have gone through changes in 2,000 years. That, and there were references by Pliny to the "Canariae Insulae" in that order, so I just rolled with it. I suppose in AMW, Latin can be what I want it to be within some logical reasoning

Regarding American place names, I went with what I saw in your factbook. So, that's where they all came from. If you're changing some things around, I'd be happy to update your place names with any list your furnish either in here or through TG. That's easy to do.

Now, French Polynesia. I'm not entirely sure what your claims are in the Pacific and, as evidenced by the change internally, your factbook is out of date. So anything I went by when deciding what to take came from the lack of claims currently listed in factbooks (this is why I have, from time to time, put out the call for factbook updated-ness). This being said, and I am one to verify before I speak these days, after a careful search through the threads, Amerique is correct that he added French Polynesia as per this post from 2012 and somehow I missed than when looking through here for what I could claim. Thus, I will strike them from the Roman Empire which is pretty easy since I just wrote the factbook post earlier today.

Now, of course this makes me wonder what the Romans could claim instead in the Pacific Ocean as a spring board to San Diego. I suppose we could just use the Bahamas, involve ourselves in the Gulf States, then into California, but I believe that wouldn't exactly jive with Ian's history. It appears to be a landing-and-subsequent-Catholic-Mission-run-amok scenario. So, since Mod already has French Polynesia as I pointed out, and he went either/or on Hawaii, I think I'd like to make Hawaii a Roman Province. A hard and fast claim on Hawaii, that is. Not for RPing a scenario in the Pacific, but the spring board of the Roman influence in North America. All it takes is redirecting Magellan a few thousand miles towards Hawaii instead of other locales he visited IRL and it's an early enough entry point to San Diego.

Ah, that line of reasoning re: French Polynesia certainly does make sense. If it was claimed for the Imperial crown by Ferdinand Magellan, and the claim maintained by the Romans, it would certainly makes sense that Magellan would hit French Polynesia first after crossing the Straits of Magellan in around where British Patagonia is right now. Perhaps it would be best for me to switch to Hawaii as the American colony came much later during the Victorian Age and wouldn't require the urgency of French Polynesia while providing the same purpose of increasing battles of influence with the British in the 19th century and, especially with the American funding of the Zion Canal, a base of operations against the Japanese in the 20th and a halfway point to Drapol later. You are free to claim French Polynesia, of course. As far as the placenames go, it was not to be a rebuke but just as requests for name changes in light of differences from the old factbook, you're more than right in using the factbook as a reference point where none else existed. Thanks, Chrin.

EDIT: I would actually be interested in a character RP, lol.

Cool deal, my Canadian friend. I'll keep French Polynesia and give you my own go ahead for Hawaii. Really, though, I just wanted to make sure I didn't cheat you out of something you wanted/was rightfully yours, sir.

And, the fact you'd be up for a character RP is tops in my book, sir. It could even be as simple as sending either Marcus X or Nathaniel IV over to Ballyston (or whatever it is called) for a little diplomatic visit and hijinx.

[Chrinthanium]

MAP UPDATE:

The map reflecting the following changes will be posted by Monday:

Naming British Borneo as Sabah
Naming Singapore as such
Transfer of Hawaii from unclaimed to Amerique (unless there is reasonable objection)
Changing the color of CSR cities from black (which is harder to see on the dark red color of the nation) to white
The cities of Editraequan (Kiev) and Mansmouth (Odessa)--which the gay guy finds hilariously named
The claims map will be updated Monday as well to reflect all changes since its last update

[Iansisle]

Oops, wrong thread. Ignore this.

[The Amyclae]

I'd like to do a character RP Chrin.

[Chrinthanium]

Maps Updated!

Map with Cities
Basic claims map

[Nova Gaul]

Awesome maps again Chrin. Your hard work and mappery is always much appreciated!

I am all down for a personal RP too. A couple weeks back Kyr had an idea for a Day in the Life Of... type of thing, where we go through the lives of one of our citizens, describing common routines and illustrating culture and so on. The idea really sounded fascinating to me and still does. It might even turn into something like Six Degrees of Separation, you know, where the theory goes everyone has met everyone else in the world through 6 people.

But yah I'm eager as always for some character RP.

Edit: Just FYI for you all, I will be factbooking the Marshall and Kiribati Islands into Japan over the next few days. After some thought, if there are no objections, I have just decided on them being peopled by an ethnicity similar to the Japanese who had historical connections to Japan itself and were formally annexed in the late 19th Century.

Or they could have been taken by Japan or something after the Great War. Hmm, still haven't decided if Japan was in the Great War at all yet, probably should think about that a bit.

[Nova Gaul]

Heya all.

So, just a few thoughts. I'll preface them by saying I am going to really slow down my level of RP here.

Although it might have something to do with geopolitics as it pertains to AMW, ever since I actively RPing as Japan I've encountered nothing but basic hostility from all but a few nations. While this may have something to do with circumstances in AMW as they stand, I can't help but feel there's a reaction to me as a player.

After all, Japan has done nothing militarily aggressive against anyone. The one time I tried to do a military RP at the invitation of LRR I was quite literally shot down by Ian. Ostensibly for threatening California's interests. But now, when I want to RP doing a navy base in the Congo, I get pretty snide remarks and reactions from nations who realistically wouldn't be threatened by such a move. I can't even announce a new jet without snide remarks. Basically, I cannot even do a post without every nation in AMW challenging it, in the case of Chrin with his two avatar nations working in an eerie OOC-tandem.

This may well be geopolitical, but the fact is I am basically unable to RP at all, even building an economic RP, without subtle threats of war. And I haven't so much as fired a shot.

I'm not angry, Im' not blaming anyone, and I am not giving up Japan; but I can't even finish one post without a dog-pile against me as it were causing me to rewrite everything. And some nations are even superimposing a history on mine (e.g. the Great War) that I never even said happened. It's just exhausting. So I'm not going anywhere, at all, but I am going to take a break from posting and such. Maybe its because the European War died down, maybe it's because I am an old bugbear and cannot shed the baggage, but that's the way things seem.

I am tempted to just negate the past few weeks RPs and do the odd news story from Japan now and then (the country fascinates me), and maybe that will play out better. But I really have no interest in taking on the world again, so, to the point, I am going to be slowing down my output a lot while checking in frequently so as not to lose Japan.

Hope that didn't come across as bitter or jaded, it wasn't intended too. It's just exhausting trying to do an RP with the result every nation lines up against it. It may well be my fault, I freely admit it, for planning an ambitious RP, but I just can't keep up with the speed of it all these days. I'm sure, being mature individuals, you will understand, and I hope you can respect my decision.

Merci. And please, do me a favor, don't call me by my Christian name. NG will do. Thanks again!

[Jatriqya and Hoya]

This may well be geopolitical, but the fact is I am basically unable to RP at all, even building an economic RP, without subtle threats of war. And I haven't so much as fired a shot.

NG,

Obviously, as everyone knows, I'm a huge on again off again member, so I stepped in right in the midst of things. However, even then I was aware of why people were reacting as they were, and I personally reacted as I would with this sort of thing in the real world. You may be getting the feeling that "everyone" in AMW is waiting for the chance to oppose Japan, but that's not true. There are those, like Indus, of the Congo, that welcome Japan. But there are a lot more that don't, for the reasons below.

There are two reasons that Japan is encountering so much hostility. The first is, whether you mean it or not, the serious increase in Japan's military is a HUGE concern. Firstly, for nations directly affected, like California, Chrinthania, and the Roman Empire, to a certain extent with Roman Polynesia. The fact that you were ready to become militarily involved in Anahuac. It doesn't matter if you were invited to or not, California would have to react. I know this because Japan is solidifying a regime in Indus that my second claim, Kutch, is extremely hostile to. So of course, if Japan is arming and solidifying this regime, then Kutch will have to respond negatively. If Russia started selling large amounts of arms to Iran, and at the same time Russia started doubling its army, the US wouldn't sit back and do nothing.

Now, the militarization of Japan to levels which could lead to invasions of countries would be a problem enough. But then Japan also creates the PTO, which is an economic weapon. Why? Because by forcing nations to adopt the Yen as their major reserve currency, they will become dependent on you. It is a very neo-colonialist strategy, in the disguise of a clearly unbalanced partnership. The PTO is an extreme. Of course people and governments will criticize you - people criticize France, for example, all the time for using similar strategies. There's much more hostility to China now that it is trying to expand in soft power. Once again, you aroused the hostility of other nations. In my nation, the ERE, you aroused hostility by inviting the FIS and Indus in the PTO - which would have isolated us from the FIS, an ally, as well as isolated the ERE from the rest of the Gulf and Indian Ocean region. FIS oil must flow east through the ERE, or get shipped the long way round to Europe. If FIS oil goes east, we're obviously worse off.

No matter what you say, or of what your intentions were, you turned Japan into a militarizing neo-colonialist nationalistic nation. You tampered with the very fragile balance of power in the AMW world. You were bound to encounter opposition. The opposition is entirely geopolitical. This would have happened with any of our nations - if Geletia doubled its army, then tried roping other nations into a PTO-like pact, you can bet that Europe would not be comfortable with it, WoS wouldn't be comfortable with it, etc. You can't just write a news post now and then, because Japan is now the centre of AMW world's attention. The ERE needs to know how the FIS is going to move. Kutch needs to know how much more power Indus is going to get, and how this threatens it. California needs to know whether the Japanese ships will leave Anahuac just with the Japanese, as they say they will. Will Japan's huge navy sit in Japanese ports to reassure world opinion, or will everyone see this militarization as having a specific goal in mind.

I hope you chose to see what has been set in motion through, and don't take AMW nations' hostility to Japan personally. Depkazia and Drapol have most of the world stacked up against them, but that's ok.

[Walmington on Sea]

I'm not sure that Depkazia has the world against it; Turko-Gandvian relations seem rather significant! And maybe there's a point in that... has Japan considered at any point trying to make allies (by which I mean to exclude unequal neo-colonial partnerships with impoverished nations)? Have I missed the Empire's diplomatic drives in Riga and Samarkand?

The world is on edge right now, NG. As I see it...

Gandvik, one of the largest military powers, is in open war with major representatives of 'the West', Communism is sweeping through four continents, gathering martial pace in North America and finding a powerful champion in the newly reorganised CSR. Power blocks are competing on a larger scale and in a more old-fashioned sense than we're used to in modern life.

When an Eastern power begins a rearmament drive, starts to carve out an economic empire for itself, and seeks to exert new influence in the Atlantic, naturally a competing imperial power such as Britain is going to react with a show of force to the former's would-be vassals. The deployment of a RN task-force to the west coast of Africa is a reminder to Kinshasa, not a threat of war against Japan. California, meanwhile, was clearly never going to sit back and watch an outside power arming a hostile junta in its own neighbourhood, and after-all only shot down a military transport engaged in a military action in a foreign region.

I do see how the sudden meshing of Roman and Chrinthani interests and aims could look a little off, especially to someone on the wrong end of it. I think that while it makes sense with the in-game situation as it stands, perhaps having vulnerable Roman territories bound to depend on Chrinthani support for their defence wasn't the best idea, with the clarity of hindsight?

Tokyo wasn't built in a day, anyway. I imagine it must have taken all weekend, at least.

[Chrinthanium]

Essentially, what Japan has done is to put Sydney and Rome on the same side in an event the Romans were uninterested in from the outset. Chrinthanium is unable to defend itself, really, and would require assistance from other nations if push came to shove. Rome isn't interested in helping Chrinthanium, but protecting around a quarter-million Roman citizens in the South Pacific from what seems to be a Japan interested in flexing its military muscle is something the Romans are interested in doing. But I can see how them having shore time in Chrinthanium can stink a bit. That can be retconned into being stationed in the South Pacific near Roman Polynesia and only stopping into port to reup supplies, fuel, and to give the Roman sailors a few days off. That's something I can do to help remove any perceived slight against you, NG.

But, while that could seem curious to those not familiar with AMW and in-character mechanics, the Romans didn't even mention anything apart from sending part of the navy to protect their interests until Japan and Congo decided that a military base for Japan was needed/wanted in the Atlantic. Then, what seemed like a Pacific-only issue suddenly came just a tad too close to the empire for them to remain silent. No one is interested in interrupting Congolese-Japanese trade. The reason being used to justify this base is, quite honestly, ludicrous to start. Rome doesn't give a rip with whom you trade, nor does it want to find a way to molest your trading routes. But, take a pronounced Japanese stance of upping military capacity coupled with interference in Anahuac militarily, and then the building of a naval base for Japan in Congo.... and now Rome has finally got something to worry about. All of this feels like Japan prior to World War 2, quite honestly. And we all know how that went. Rome is on a continent so ready to explode into another Great War that they're a little trigger happy.

Anything that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck will be called a duck.

Of course, I could have taken your post with a grain of salt and simply and easily retconned a few little things for your benefit and for the peace that often reigns over AMW discussions. Then, you decided to go and, basically, say "don't call me by my familiar name, call me NG." That's a bit childish, really. The reading-between-the-lines on that one basically goes that you don't want people here to call you Jean because only friends can do that and, well, we're not friends. If that's how you wish to be, then all I can say is... as you like it.

I'll be willing to back track a few things in spite of the above comment.

[Nova Gaul]

Heya everyone—thank you all for the thoughtful and balanced responses and points made. Again, I have no axe to grind whatsoever here, if anything I’m asking for a bit of understanding from the community. I can only juggle so many balls (not a dirty joke) as it were. I’ll just add a few brief responses, back to front.

Chrin—All your points are well made, except for the name sir. Of course we are all friends here, it is just my preference not to be called by my real name. I don’t know how it got started (I think back in 1.0 we all did a brief autobiography on the old offsite) but I just don’t like it and can’t really say why. If you wish, I’d happily call you Mr. Efron. Just a pet peeve of mine.

From an IC point of view I can see why Rome did what it did, but the fact of the matter in conjunction with WoS, Amerique, California, Chrinthania and potentially the Byzantines lining up to respond I am just overwhelmed. What I originally intended to be a new dynamic of economic RP has resulted in world mobilization in strength, en masse, against Japan. Duck or no, I seem to be unable to conduct an RP with either Indus or Congo or (obviously) Anahuac without being basically rebuffed by the aforesaid powers, even if their reason for doing so ICly makes sense. From an OOC point of view, it leaves me with no RP short of either war or sexy schoolgirls running from cartoon octopi. I choose the latter.

I never once asked anybody to retcon, and if anyone did so, it would be me.

Great points as usual WoS. (I might say I sent a few TGs to ‘major powers’ to discuss RPs, but they seem to be busy of late, hence why it seems a bit lopsided vis-à-vis Japanese diplomacy). And one thing I’d like to say dovetails with J&H’s points, regarding Japanese armament. Carefully going over recent events, Japan only decided to beef up its military (to a maximum of .29% of the population) after, when invited to help the government of Anahuac, it was attacked by a 3rd party in neutral territory, for whatever the reason.

And, I might say, having your airplanes blown up in neutral territory makes one thinks about securing trade routes, as is the case with the Congo. Everything kind of spiraled out of control from there, if spiral it did, and I only got involved with that to give Japan an active RP. More fool me I suppose.

Anyway, TL;DR…I never wanted Japan to become the center of AMW’s attention. I thought I could merrily go about doing an—admittedly—quasi-neo-imperialism economy RP with UK, Kyr, Chemaki, and LRR. The reason was to justify…how can Japan have a present day economy with a world largely free of free trade? In any case, as you all—WoS, Chrin, and J&H point out—I didn’t foresee that this would take up (dare I say far) more attention that the largest hot war since the Great War in Europe. It was my underestimation, and unlike my heady wackjob days as AMW France I just can’t summon up the energy to deal with the reaction of the world’s major powers moving to encircle Japan simultaneously. I just can’t be a bugbear no more. Ain’t got no energy left for it. Please believe me everyone when I say this was simply supposed to be a quasi-neo-imperialism economy RP with UK, Kyr, Chemaki, and LRR to justify how could Japan have a present day economy in an AMW world largely free of free trade. I never was trying to conquer the world.

Hope that makes sense all. We’ve worked thorough difficulties in the past before, it’s the nature of a nation simulation game, and I can’t cop out by retconning what I did ‘just never happened’. So what I am thinking of is just having Japan abandon the PTO and other types of RPs and just slide back into the obscurity of manga, robotics, and gyudun bowls.

Again, thanks for the awesome responses all.

[United Kongo]

Well Honestly NG I think that what you have done with Japan so far has been great in that you've brought an interesting dynamic to the RP with a rising Japan, and I guess like the others have said in a time of tense relations, a rising Japan is going to raise some nerves. Still I would prefer it if the Congo-Japan accord and the Naval base were not negated as I like the dynamic they have built in Congo in helping put the country more on the map, so to speak.

Also I guess you got to remember as well, in regards to the naval base, that Congo is not Anahuac and that Nkandu is not going to back down due to a few worships (then again thats all it took to take down Bantu ) and so Japan is not going to be as restricted as it was with the situation in Anahuac where the government is tottering and there are lot actors with interests as stake and the ability to intervene. Nkandu is firmly in control and realistically I think only WoS can really threaten Congo at the moment (I'm not to sure about Roman Naval power in regards to Africa or whether would really want to be involved their, as Chrin has suggested). Rome hasn't actually threatened military action really in regards to the Atlantic and like WoS has said the naval ships were more to put Congo back in it's place then Japan. I think the last thing the Brits want is a more militarised Congolese state which is not so friendly to them on the doorstep of Nilosahara.

The Japanese coalition being built up is going to change the balance of power in the world, and of course some states are going to oppose it or may react with hostility when Japan tries to extend influence, but is this really a bad thing? The way I say see it, it has created an interesting rping situation in AMW. Of course some states are bound to react with hostility when the existing political order to is upset not only by Japan, but also other states she is allying with (see the ERE with FIS and Indus) but not every state is going to agree with Rome, WoS, California and the like, it does not seem to me anyway that the whole world is against Japan.

Anyways I was going to post a rebuke on the Newsthread but I'll wait instead NG if you want to instead retcon the naval base (although I hope you don't)


EDIT: Yeah i just saw your reply NG after I posted this

[Chrinthanium]

You're right, UK. Rome hasn't issued military threats against Congo or Japan. However, the empire is prepared to protect its citizens no matter how far from the home provinces. Thus, the Romans are sending warships into the Pacific. A few stops along the way, some shore leave in exotic destinations for the sailors, stopping in Chrinthanium, then off to Roman Polynesia to spin around and scare away Japanese whalers and prove to the world that Rome can do it.

[Kyr Shorn]

Well NG you could have Japan decide to 'restructure' the PTO a bit, make it seem less threatening to the Western powers, maybe even name it something like 'The Asian Economic Conference'. Something seemingly bland, more asia focused, but letting you be an Empire without rousing suspicion (for now).

[Chrinthanium]

Actually, you know what, NG?

Don't retcon a damn thing. AMW is interconnected and nations are going to respond in their own way. What has been bugging me in this whole thing is the fact that you didn't get the response you wanted and so now you're going to do the very NG thing and stop, probably disappear until such time as your nation CTE's, then come back again and reapply asking if we'll have you back and all that. You created this, this is how things have happened, and you should have to find your own way out of it. You don't like the way it turned out? Then find a way to fix that in-character rather than crying foul.

[Nova Gaul]

Actually, you know what, NG?

Don't retcon a damn thing. AMW is interconnected and nations are going to respond in their own way. What has been bugging me in this whole thing is the fact that you didn't get the response you wanted and so now you're going to do the very NG thing and stop, probably disappear until such time as your nation CTE's, then come back again and reapply asking if we'll have you back and all that. You created this, this is how things have happened, and you should have to find your own way out of it. You don't like the way it turned out? Then find a way to fix that in-character rather than crying foul.

Wow that's a bit acerbic Chrin. If you'll read my above post you'll notice I did propose a solution and one that had nothing to do with me leaving. At all. In point of fact, I was trolling for solutions to the fact it's more or less impossible to respond to all the major powers responding to my every post nearly en masse. It has nothing to do with me not 'getting what I wanted' as all the pertinent threads are nascent. In fact my solution...ICly as you so sharply point out...that I explicitly mentioned above is to announce the dissolution of the PTO as such and have Japan move back to a more isolationist position, the only aspect of this that will be done OOCly will be my removing of the Kiribati/Marshall islands claim to make this more feasible. I made it clear I wasn't leaving and I really don't know where your bit of tissy came from: this is a discussion thread isnt it?

[Nova Gaul]

I should add Chrin that if AMW as a whole -not just you- says that my proposal to reduce my holdings and become more isolationist as I outlined above isn't possible, then I will proceed ahead as things stand. But I had an honest issue I wanted to discuss with the community that at a real level affected my nation simulation with the community, and I felt it was fair for me to do so. My only mistake was I should have put a notice in my first post about this "If the community will let me, x then y."

And from the beginning I said I had no intention whatsoever of doing all those things you presuppose I will. That's a good example of what I mean about the OOC becoming IC, which is why I made the remark about your two countries in the first place.

I just wanted to discuss an issue, and now that I've said my piece, I'll abide by what AMW decides.

[Chrinthanium]

I should add Chrin that if AMW as a whole -not just you- says that my proposal to reduce my holdings and become more isolationist as I outlined above isn't possible, then I will proceed ahead as things stand. But I had an honest issue I wanted to discuss with the community that at a real level affected my nation simulation with the community, and I felt it was fair for me to do so. My only mistake was I should have put a notice in my first post about this "If the community will let me, x then y."

And from the beginning I said I had no intention whatsoever of doing all those things you presuppose I will. That's a good example of what I mean about the OOC becoming IC, which is why I made the remark about your two countries in the first place.

I just wanted to discuss an issue, and now that I've said my piece, I'll abide by what AMW decides.

I am curious to know just what OOC I'm using ICly. Everything I have said I have said from IC posts you've made or they're inferences based upon the way things look. The Congolese deal? IC news post. Military increase? IC posting. Your threat of war if Chrinthanium didn't play ball? Definitely IC. Puppet wanking is an accusation that could stick, so, as I have said, I can redo that portion to make it seem less curious than it really is.

You just have to understand that a new power is interested in carving out its own sphere of influence and the "powers that be" in the IC AMW world are reacting to this in kind. Most nations that have some form of influence either regionally or globally aren't all that inclined to give it up because the new kid wants to play the game. Add into the mix the staunchly pro-military stance your government has taken--including attempting to assert influence in Anahuac--coupled with the potential of a Japanese naval base in the Atlantic Ocean to protect trade that, to the best of my knowledge, has never been threatened between Congo and Japan, and you get a bit of negative response from global powers. What else did you expect?

I think your best course of action is to let it play out. Don't do to this like you did in the Thorntons where your Cardinal, Nate's right-hand-man, tried to tempt him away with some boy and break up the imperial couple. Then, when the dubious plan was discovered, you simply bailed as quickly as possible rather than play out the potential consequences. That pretty much killed that RP. This is where my anger towards your sudden decision to drop this because "it just got too difficult" and "feels like a dog-pile on me" flares up. See this through to its natural conclusion. Will you get everything you want? Maybe, maybe not. Will you find a way to get some of what you want? Probably. You'll never know unless you try.

Again, yes there will be resistance. That's how the geopolitical situation in AMW is. I'd like to say that Rome would simply allow you to do as you see fit in the Atlantic, but I can't. Such a drastic undertaking is, well, rather disconcerting to the Romans. And the Chrinthani? Well, they're pretty well set on being some form of partner with California because they see California as the type of nation they hope to become (only with much better surf spots, surfers, much better looking men and women, better climate, more resources, and dingoes). So you're not going to get the kind of "Okay, boss. Have fun" response from Sydney that you seem to be looking for because you're pissing off California and Chrinthanium isn't going to go against California--for the most part. The Chrinthani aren't too keen on what the Californians did to your military aircraft, but, again, we can go around insulting one of our largest trading partners. Japan, on the other hand, well, we can afford to cut you off because we're only 5% of your trade. Also, you're dealing with a nation whose main line of defense is the amount of creatures that can kill a human once they invade. They can't really do anything to you militarily.

Plus, you've done so much so quickly that it really does seem to be like RL Japan prior to World War 2. And, well, Europe isn't interested in another Great War--even though that's the path they're currently on--particularly if the next Great War encompasses the whole world. Maybe, just maybe, a bit of a slow down is fine here. But, don't abandon the idea. That's throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.

It's like when I claim jumped all over the map. After a while of having to retcon history, people tend to not want to include you in order to make sure they don't waste their time with things that, for all intents and purposes, will never become AMW cannon. It sucks to be in that position. Trust me. That's why I had to basically resort to low-level interaction with Walmington just to get some English folks involved in Chrinthanium. Honestly, I'm surprised he said yes. This left me the Romans to do the dirty work. And while Rome and Sydney aren't best friends, there is always going to be some form of interaction between them. Rome has no real resources and the Chrinthani have more than enough. So, yeah, they're going to have dealings. Just how the world works in this case.

I was acerbic in my previous post and, quite honestly, I'm pretty incensed at this whole situation. NG, I just feel like you're complaining about things that were going to happen to anyone who came up with the idea you did. You just happened to be the one who did it. Sorry if you feel like you're being ganged up on, but, really, I can't see this playing out any other way. The question is: are you ready to take a deep breath and push forward and deal with whatever happens in the future, or are you going to put your tail between your legs and run away? I hope it is the former and not the latter

Now, onto something else that has been brought to my attention (but not to interrupt the current discourse, but to address an issue that has come up because of the current issue).

The far-flung island provinces of the Roman Empire have come under scrutiny by some members of the group because they all basically lack a large-enough port to house enough Roman naval vessels to sufficiently protect themselves. The Roman military as stated in the current offsite factbook is, as far as the Roman military is concerned, out of date because it was organized before these territories were added. TCB has already sent me a first-draft of the new Roman Army. I hope to work with him and/or other to help organize the Navy and Air Force. They've not been left to their own defense, I just haven't been able to work out just what kind of military protections are in place around these provinces.

Firstly, I would have rather had a larger global empire that kept pace with the Walmingtonian Empire. Of course, unlike Walmington, my European population alone is just over 110 million which would bring with it a potential of having just too many people for the way AMWers view very large nations. That's nothing against Walmington. That's just the realization that, having Spain and Portugal (mostly) tends to put me into a category of being a potential colonizer for new players if they so require.

Then, if that did pass, there would be the inevitable handicapping that is required of such larger claims. That's how AMW works. The give-and-take that makes this place feel that everyone has a chance to rise and fall on their own merits.

Of course, as Beddgelert is always quick to point out, the Royal Navy would've probably destroyed Rome in the process. Thus, I went for small territories that didn't add too too much to the Roman population (in fact, most of the island province population is housed in the Canary Islands (with over 2 million people out of the nearly 5 million total added). They're mostly small island chains that aren't that interesting to most people owing to lack of resources. It was also done to help prevent having to deal with any type of major war (or wars) between Rome and Walmington throughout history. I regret I just didn't go for the gusto and work my way backwards from there if needed.

This all being rambled as it's pretty late for even a night owl like myself, I think I'd like to readdress the current Roman claim insofar as the non-European territories are concerned. There is a potential to drop some of the more harder-to-protect areas and reach out for some that are either closer to home or that have sufficient infrastructure to mount an appropriate defense. I shall think about it and come up with a proposal that makes sense to the goals of the Roman Empire, and, to the best of my ability, doesn't create too too large of a population. Already prepared to handicap as needed.

I'm pretty thrilled to be the Roman Empire. I just love it so.

[The Amyclae]

I am sort of bummed NG that I can’t call you by your first name because I’ve been calling you Jean forever now and I didn’t mean to poke you in the eye all those times. You can still call me Max, and everyone can, I suppose I view some or most of you at least as positively as some random guy or girl at a meet and greet whose reading my name card. Though I totally understand that my view isn’t the norm.

I also feel bad that I was so dismissive of Japan’s request now, but I was terribly busy and have been busy for a while now. I hope my lack of enthusiasm for RPing was viewed exactly like that. No subtext. I was just busy. But maybe Japan would like to involve itself in Zion? I don’t know, if you want to do some RPing, I’m going to have some free time here and Zion is reasonably far away from the evil Californians and shitty (reading: amazing, beautiful, illustrious) San Diego and its ugly (i.e. alluring, sensuous, tantalizing) ruler.

I think I’m most bummed because I totally had 1500 words for a nice reply to the nightmare thread and now I just have to throw it away. Hmm.

If playing as Areopagitican taught me anything is that AMW is sometimes very reactionary in the RPing. The evil guy comes along, the world unites, excitement happens. Sometimes the Catholics got their shit together, like when we took out one of the Egypt incarnations. But other times we got nukes dropped on us. You win some, you lose some but usually being instigator makes good RPs happen but makes sure you get the rough end of the stick. I don’t think it’s anything against you NG because I love you. No homo?

[Chrinthanium]

And you all can call me Chris, since that's my name.

EDIT:

So, I've been thinking about the Indian and Pacific Ocean claims for Rome and, as of this moment, I'm dropping them. Can't really defend them, can't really deal with not having the ability to defend them (or having to send the Navy months out to sea to get there only to arrive after the enemy have left the a burning wasteland), and can't really decide if they're worth keeping. So, they're gone. I've opted to drop The Bahamas and the Turks and Caicos Islands as well.

I will retain the Canary Islands as they are part of Spain. Madeira, as part of Portugal, will remain. Those are a bit easier to defend from Europe Cheduba Island remains because it's awesome.

[Nova Gaul]

That’s sweet Max, love you too. Kiss kiss. You’re right too, of course.

Well Chrin you made some good points, but I think I made a few as well. And I think that it was okay for me to bring up my thoughts. And I just want to be absolutely clear; it was never about me not getting what I wanted or the fear of that not happening. As the ‘bad guys’ in AMW can attest, and Lord knows Max stood alone against the world with the Areos, it can be exhausting and frustrating.

No joke, it’s hard when you start an economic RP and the world unites against it. It just is. It’s hard when you want to do a small scale military RP, but are shot down before you can do it and enter into a conflict in a whole other order of magnitude that you never intended to enter. But the point you made about interconnectivity is true Chrin, and just because it is a lot of work and frustration on my end (and let’s be honest here, I am being the bad guy) is no valid reason for me to say “Okay, I’m going into the shell again.’ And also, for the record, and I want to be clear about this as well (because I have more baggage than anyone in AMW) I never intended my recent RPs to go down this road, i.e. start a conflict, the type of which I’ve been lambasted for in the past. It just happened.

So, I don’t apologize for bringing up the discussion point. I think I had a valid point to discuss. And I thank you all for your comments, so sweeter and some more pungent than others. I know I come across as a prima donna sometimes, but from the bottom of my heart I promise this was never about a tantrum or a CTE threat. It was just to discuss how frustrating it is to have the world line up in opposition, and try to cope with responding to it all, despite the fact that the opposition makes perfect sense.

And also, I was being selfish, because if it was just my puppet then that’s one thing, but apparently other nations—even nations hostile to Japan—want to continue down this line of RP. So then, let’s keep it going and see just where this road takes us to, realistic as it is. Thank you all for hearing me out.

[Chrinthanium]

That’s sweet Max, love you too. Kiss kiss. You’re right too, of course.

Well Chrin you made some good points, but I think I made a few as well. And I think that it was okay for me to bring up my thoughts. And I just want to be absolutely clear; it was never about me not getting what I wanted or the fear of that not happening. As the ‘bad guys’ in AMW can attest, and Lord knows Max stood alone against the world with the Areos, it can be exhausting and frustrating.

No joke, it’s hard when you start an economic RP and the world unites against it. It just is. It’s hard when you want to do a small scale military RP, but are shot down before you can do it and enter into a conflict in a whole other order of magnitude that you never intended to enter. But the point you made about interconnectivity is true Chrin, and just because it is a lot of work and frustration on my end (and let’s be honest here, I am being the bad guy) is no valid reason for me to say “Okay, I’m going into the shell again.’ And also, for the record, and I want to be clear about this as well (because I have more baggage than anyone in AMW) I never intended my recent RPs to go down this road, i.e. start a conflict, the type of which I’ve been lambasted for in the past. It just happened.

So, I don’t apologize for bringing up the discussion point. I think I had a valid point to discuss. And I thank you all for your comments, so sweeter and some more pungent than others. I know I come across as a prima donna sometimes, but from the bottom of my heart I promise this was never about a tantrum or a CTE threat. It was just to discuss how frustrating it is to have the world line up in opposition, and try to cope with responding to it all, despite the fact that the opposition makes perfect sense.

And also, I was being selfish, because if it was just my puppet then that’s one thing, but apparently other nations—even nations hostile to Japan—want to continue down this line of RP. So then, let’s keep it going and see just where this road takes us to, realistic as it is. Thank you all for hearing me out.

Now you're talking. And I wasn't trying to discredit your points. People don't realize it, but I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of mostly group-wide replies (in terms of claims and economy, to be precise). If AMW resists, it's pretty hard to feel that you can overcome it. But, there's ways to do it that will give everyone a bit of what they want. And, really, what you want is to carve out some niche for Japan in the global game of diplomacy. However that turns out, you'll probably have more of what you were aiming for than you would had you dropped it completely.

[Nova Gaul]

Thanks for that Chrin. Again, I never meant to be a #!@%$, I just wanted to make some of my thoughts known. Thanks also for sharing your experiences, I know what you mean, the thoughts are really appreciated. And again thanks everyone for all of your thoughts, you put my worries about feeling overwhelmed totally in perspective.

Please bear with me everyone as I try to respond individually to all of your all’s posts, I promise I will do so diligently and as quickly as possible. In the mean time, I will post a news blurb that I think can be used as a general reaction for all the various posts so far, in kind. So in the mean time I will stop with the drama and start the RP again!