AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Chemaki]

Thought it would be a good time to rear my head and give you guys a thumbs up to tell you I'm not ready to be thrown into the ash heap of history, and also to say hi to Arumdaum (I think we roleplayed a fair bit together a few years ago). Can't chime in an awful lot about your claim; being halfway around the world in the Middle East, but I'm always happy to offer a bit of advice, at least on the oil front.

If Korea produced large amounts of oil from Alaska early on, would it have created tensions with other major oil-producing states such as the United Gulf States and California? Would drilling for oil in Alaska be controversial beginning in the latter half of the 20th century, even if taking place in a foreign country?

I'm not particularly aware of the oil situation in the Americas but as least as far as Eurasia is concerned, the early 20th century seems to be dominated by the 'Big Three' oil and gas producers - Byzantium, Gandvik and the Federated Islamic States. Whilst I can't imagine the FIS having much of a market outside of the Indian Ocean shipping routes, and Byzantium only really able to export around the Mediterranian, Gandvik's oil production and exports could very well eclipse most of the Northern Hemisphere - especially considering the pacific coastline it now has. Certainly a huge number of factors rely on Gandvian-Korean history and relations, but with its swathes of oil I can imagine Riga being eager to flood Korea with cheap oil in a bid to undermine competition. As far as the logistics of Alaskan oil extraction goes, Korea would be dealing with an extremely tough climate, even if it had its own answer to Ice Road Truckers; AFAIK in real life, significant oil reserves were only discovered in the late 70s and early 80s, and the technology used to extract them at the time was pretty cutting edge.

[Arumdaum]

Hey! It's been a while.

I'm perfectly fine with initially being dependent upon oil for the most part. If there's too much competition for us to effectively enter the market and domestic consumption of oil remains relatively high, the oil produced in Alaska could just be largely meant for domestic production. Based upon what I've recently found out (on Wikipedia lol), intensive exploration didn't begin until the 1960s, with the largest oil field beginning production during the 1970s. I'll just go with that. Korea would, of course, be dealing with a tough climate, but I'm assuming that we'd just deal with it for the most part in the same way that the United States has been doing.

Hrm. Actually, considering that I literally border Gandvik through land and Alaska is located very far away, I might have to do with obtaining a lot of my energy needs through Gandvik, while exporting my oil in Alaska to markets in places such as Amerique.

[Chrinthanium]

So, this is where I have arrived in trying to work out a few things on my claim.

Transatlantic Empires are not so easy to maintain. I find myself either having to devolve government to the point that the central government is fairly impotent or split the nation in two and work with two nations. The issue being, would 122 people in Brazil take marching orders from a capital in Spain? Certainly there would be cause for them to want to split. After the Great War, the Brazilian portion of the claim would've been much more heavily industrialized as they put together a way to save the homeland from the Damn, Dirty Valendians (TM). Obviously, with a new middle class emerging after the war, the discovery of natural resources, the burgeoning population, and a new sense of Brazilian nationalism, there's a chance they'd start questioning the need to remain attached to Madrid.

Furthermore, they would want their home home-grown government. Obviously people in Iberia face different problems than people in Brazil. Why should lawmakers across the Atlantic be dictating how things work in Brazil? They could very easily work on their own internal issues more effectively with their own South American-based government. So, then, why keep them chained at the hip to a city 3,000 miles away?

There's no real reason to. So, I am going to break the claim into two. Iberia, as it will be known, will contain the Iberian peninsula, the Canary Islands, Balearic Islands, Madeira, Cabo Verde, and Sao Tome & Principe. This will have a total of 58,845,533. I'd peg the GDP per cap at 21,500, giving an overall GDP of 1.265 trillion. The nation would have a defense force, but nothing major.

Cheduba Island, though, is a bit of a sticky wicket for me. Partly because I don't know what is happening to Drapol (I know discussion was going on about it), and I don't know if Iberia would be in much of a position to help out. Perhaps it is a Special Administrative Division?

Brasil, which will formally be known as Chrinthania, will contain the previously claimed Brazilian states of Minas Gerais, Pernambuco, Paraiba, Rio Grande so Norte, Sergipe, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Espritio Santo, Bahia, and Alagoas. I would like to add to this list the states of Goias, Federal District, Parana, Santa Catarina, and Ceara. That would bring the Chrinthani total to 158,440,645. I would peg the GDP per capita at 18,500, giving an overall GDP of 2.931 trillion. And a fairly decent coffee export business if that oil stuff (with a few billions of barrels under the sea) doesn't work out. Way down among Brazilians coffee bean grow by the billions, so they've got to find those extra cups to fill. They've got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil.

Iberia would be constitutional monarch, Chrinthania would be republic. You get the picture, eh?

[Chrinthanium]

So, what I need is the answer to the following question. It's a question only WoS can answer: What are the Somers Islands IRL, and are Jersey, Gurnsey, and Isle of Man in their RL locations?

[Europe - Prussia]

I'm not WoS Chrin, but at the very least I can tell you that Jersey and Gurnsey are not their RL counterparts, as this and this post says.

[Chrinthanium]

I'm not WoS Chrin, but at the very least I can tell you that Jersey and Gurnsey are not their RL counterparts, as this and this post says.

Got it, thanks.

And, really, this Great War thing is killing me. Can't even map the damn claim because we can't agree on what history to force on a new claim. So much for "dragonland."

[Arumdaum]

I'm imagining the Korean peninsula's population growth to be have been more gradual, with the population continuing to rise from the ~20 million it had reached by the mid-18th century. This should make sense, considering as I plan on Korea to have continued advancing and industrializing early on. It should allow for more competition with my numerically superior neighbors Gandvik and Japan, as well as any possible nation in China that is bound to heavily outnumber me as well. Luckily, I'll also be able to add in population from southern Manchuria and from around Vladivostok, which I could consider to be parts of Korea proper.

When would Gandvik have begun expanding into Siberia? Would it coincide with Russia's IRL expansion timeline? When do you guys think I should have begun expanding into Siberia?

I think Korean settlers should have begun settling the PNW around the 1600s. The reason for the relatively low population could be the large distance between Korea and the PNW. I think though, that there should be a reason for the very straight borders between Korean North American, Canada, America, California, and the Gulfers.

I was thinking that perhaps, Koreans could have settled much of what is now British Columbia as well, and that we may have lost that land during some type of war with Walmington. Of course, I need Walmington's opinion on this.

[Tiaraan]

Tiny micro nation here,

Decided to try my hand at popping up with a AMW only RP, if you want to come aboard please do:

Red April: Expansion into the South

[Chrinthanium]

Tiny micro nation here,

Decided to try my hand at popping up with a AMW only RP, if you want to come aboard please do:

Red April: Expansion into the South

I'll be sure to keep reading up as it progresses! Not certain that either the Iberian Union or Chrinthania will be much interested outside of potentially offering opinions as to the goings on over there through news sources.

[Chrinthanium]

So, another boring day at the office has given me time to reflect upon AMW and things contained within. I was thinking about AMW actually having a World Assembly/League of Nations body that isn't just around in name only, but, like the NS World Assembly, has member states debating issues and issuing resolutions and whatnot. Certainly this is not the first time this idea has ever been brought up to AMW IIRC, but it is probably the first time in a while anyone has mentioned it. If not going quite so far as to write and vote upon resolutions, at least a few people manning the place who can create the ideas of international criminal courts and all that jazz. Rather than have this all as something that's "just there," it can be written down and posted somewhere in our records so there will be no more confusion when Cass mentions things along these lines.

I hope this wasn't too much of a rambling post. Just a thought to help give AMW another creative outlet in the hopes of sparking just a tick more life about the place.

[Chrinthanium]

Continued from the Application's thread....

I think constructive criticism of a new player is fine. I just feel that a new player's first RP should be a way to show how it is done rather than tell how it is done. I mean, Arumdaum goes on about what would happen realistically, and has a claim that isn't as realistic as one would think. Europeans explored, conquered, plundered, and colonized. Not so much the Asians. I still think Korea having the Pacific Northwest doesn't work. I think that the FIS should be on one side and only one side of the Strait of Hormuz and Persian Gulf. I'm just expressing what I think is realistic here.

Yeah, perhaps Tiaraan's RP needed a little tweaking, but, first off, the applications thread isn't the place for that. That belongs here in the discussion thread. Remember that everyone was once new to this forum-based RP game and had to learn their way around. What Tiaraan needs is some AMW TLC, and I think the best way to do this is to show him how to do it in his thread. This is, after all, his introductory AMW thread. And, I will tend to get riled up if I think the new guy is being attacked fairly or unfairly. It is hard enough to get new members through the door. Imagine what it must look like to potentials to see a new thread from a new player criticized at its first go. Again, maybe what we need to do is join in this RP in some form, even if it just to express our government's opinion on the goings-on in the general AMW style of RP in order to show how it works.

[Arumdaum]

Continued from the Application's thread....

I think constructive criticism of a new player is fine. I just feel that a new player's first RP should be a way to show how it is done rather than tell how it is done. I mean, Arumdaum goes on about what would happen realistically, and has a claim that isn't as realistic as one would think. Europeans explored, conquered, plundered, and colonized. Not so much the Asians. I still think Korea having the Pacific Northwest doesn't work. I think that the FIS should be on one side and only one side of the Strait of Hormuz and Persian Gulf. I'm just expressing what I think is realistic here.

Yeah, perhaps Tiaraan's RP needed a little tweaking, but, first off, the applications thread isn't the place for that. That belongs here in the discussion thread. Remember that everyone was once new to this forum-based RP game and had to learn their way around. What Tiaraan needs is some AMW TLC, and I think the best way to do this is to show him how to do it in his thread. This is, after all, his introductory AMW thread. And, I will tend to get riled up if I think the new guy is being attacked fairly or unfairly. It is hard enough to get new members through the door. Imagine what it must look like to potentials to see a new thread from a new player criticized at its first go. Again, maybe what we need to do is join in this RP in some form, even if it just to express our government's opinion on the goings-on in the general AMW style of RP in order to show how it works.

Another thing I find odd is that you're completely fine with unrealistically degrading Asians to lost tribes and undiscovered civilizations in the 21st century, yet find a big problem with elevating Asians to positions of power. On the other hand, you're completely fine with colonization so long as the colonizers are white, such as with Argentia.

AMW is an alternate world, with a history different from what happened IRL. Of course, this does not mean we can ignore certain realities of history, but it does provide us with a good bit of leeway.

East Asia underwent a unique set of historical circumstances which meant that colonization was unnecessary and undesirable. This included regional order and stability, wealth, and the general view that China was self-sufficient. Simply because Europeans did so in real life, and not Asians, does not mean that historically, Asians could have been ones to colonize.

European states were interested in trading with wealthier parts of Eurasia, and their dislike of having to go through either the Venetians or Muslim Ottomans meant that they were interested in finding new trade routes. However, we still have an Eastern Roman Empire in AMW. The large number of moderately-sized European states also meant that if explorers could not find support in one country, they could surely find support in another.

Why couldn't East Asia have been like that? News of a previously unknown continent (although obviously already known to the people who had lived there for over 10k years) from either Gandvikian fur traders, Christian missionaries, or even our own explorers; some historical regional or national instability; and competition with either Japan or any existing states in China could have pushed us to colonize. Animosity with China or a Chinese state could have alienated us from the existing regional order, and prevented us from accessing certain routes of trade, causing us to look into expanding outward.

East Asia was certainly wealthy enough to fund expeditions; East Asians were wealthier and enjoyed higher levels of development than Europeans until the mid-late 18th century. Asians could certainly make it by boat to the Americas - Chinese ships were significantly more advanced than European ships when it built a large fleet during the 1400s, and Japan was able to build ships during the 1600s which made voyages to the Americas and Europe. And based upon the Imjin War between Korea and Japan from 1592 - 1598, Korea had a significantly more advanced shipbuilding industry than Japan during that period.

Returning to Tia'raan, the land near the Mekong Delta is completely different from the depths of the Amazon. It's a highly populated center of agriculture and civilization along the coast, and located in an area that is a crossroads of trade and culture. The remaining uncontacted peoples of the Amazon rainforest are located deep within the Amazon, thousands of kilometers inland in an area largely unsuited for agriculture, and surrounded on one side by a massive mountain range. Not to mention, the uncontacted peoples of the Amazon are very few in number, and nowhere near the millions in the rather densely populated area claimed. If say, the location RPed was Italy's Po Valley rather than the Mekong Delta, I'm pretty sure there would have been more widespread opposition. However, non-Western portions of the world are automatically given an okay if they are colonies, horrific places to live, or adhere to stereotypes; being wealthy or powerful on the other hand, is seen with caution.

[Chrinthanium]

Continued from the Application's thread....

I think constructive criticism of a new player is fine. I just feel that a new player's first RP should be a way to show how it is done rather than tell how it is done. I mean, Arumdaum goes on about what would happen realistically, and has a claim that isn't as realistic as one would think. Europeans explored, conquered, plundered, and colonized. Not so much the Asians. I still think Korea having the Pacific Northwest doesn't work. I think that the FIS should be on one side and only one side of the Strait of Hormuz and Persian Gulf. I'm just expressing what I think is realistic here.

Yeah, perhaps Tiaraan's RP needed a little tweaking, but, first off, the applications thread isn't the place for that. That belongs here in the discussion thread. Remember that everyone was once new to this forum-based RP game and had to learn their way around. What Tiaraan needs is some AMW TLC, and I think the best way to do this is to show him how to do it in his thread. This is, after all, his introductory AMW thread. And, I will tend to get riled up if I think the new guy is being attacked fairly or unfairly. It is hard enough to get new members through the door. Imagine what it must look like to potentials to see a new thread from a new player criticized at its first go. Again, maybe what we need to do is join in this RP in some form, even if it just to express our government's opinion on the goings-on in the general AMW style of RP in order to show how it works.

Another thing I find odd is that you're completely fine with unrealistically degrading Asians to lost tribes and undiscovered civilizations in the 21st century, yet find a big problem with elevating Asians to positions of power. On the other hand, you're completely fine with colonization so long as the colonizers are white, such as with Argentia.

AMW is an alternate world, with a history different from what happened IRL. Of course, this does not mean we can ignore certain realities of history, but it does provide us with a good bit of leeway.

East Asia underwent a unique set of historical circumstances which meant that colonization was unnecessary and undesirable. This included regional order and stability, wealth, and the general view that China was self-sufficient. Simply because Europeans did so in real life, and not Asians, does not mean that historically, Asians could have been ones to colonize.

European states were interested in trading with wealthier parts of Eurasia, and their dislike of having to go through either the Venetians or Muslim Ottomans meant that they were interested in finding new trade routes. However, we still have an Eastern Roman Empire in AMW. The large number of moderately-sized European states also meant that if explorers could not find support in one country, they could surely find support in another.

Why couldn't East Asia have been like that? News of a previously unknown continent (although obviously already known to the people who had lived there for over 10k years) from either Gandvikian fur traders, Christian missionaries, or even our own explorers; some historical regional or national instability; and competition with either Japan or any existing states in China could have pushed us to colonize. Animosity with China or a Chinese state could have alienated us from the existing regional order, and prevented us from accessing certain routes of trade, causing us to look into expanding outward.

East Asia was certainly wealthy enough to fund expeditions; East Asians were wealthier and enjoyed higher levels of development than Europeans until the mid-late 18th century. Asians could certainly make it by boat to the Americas - Chinese ships were significantly more advanced than European ships when it built a large fleet during the 1400s, and Japan was able to build ships during the 1600s which made voyages to the Americas and Europe. And based upon the Imjin War between Korea and Japan from 1592 - 1598, Korea had a significantly more advanced shipbuilding industry than Japan during that period.

Returning to Tia'raan, the land near the Mekong Delta is completely different from the depths of the Amazon. It's a highly populated center of agriculture and civilization along the coast, and located in an area that is a crossroads of trade and culture. The remaining uncontacted peoples of the Amazon rainforest are located deep within the Amazon, thousands of kilometers inland in an area largely unsuited for agriculture, and surrounded on one side by a massive mountain range. Not to mention, the uncontacted peoples of the Amazon are very few in number, and nowhere near the millions in the rather densely populated area claimed. If say, the location RPed was Italy's Po Valley rather than the Mekong Delta, I'm pretty sure there would have been more widespread opposition. However, non-Western portions of the world are automatically given an okay if they are colonies, horrific places to live, or adhere to stereotypes; being wealthy or powerful on the other hand, is seen with caution.

I never really objected to Tiaraan in the first place. I never said it had to be colony of anything or anyone. I never said anything of the like. I never said it had to be poor, or small (in fact, I think I mentioned it should be bigger). I think it should be even bigger than it is in its expanded state. I think it should be richer, stronger, and more involved in the broader world. Tiaraan, though, seems to think that this expansion is fine for him and I found no reasonable objection for it. If he wants it small, fine by me. If he wants to RP a situation where he invades his "neighbor" and takes it over, that's fine with me. AMW is so slow that I'm fairly happy someone is doing something. It was an idea that I thought had merit and, when he discussed it with me in the IRC before you chimed in, I told him I thought that would be fine. You, in turn, voiced your opinion and, in his own judgement, altered his idea because of your input. Fine. As long as he is RPing and happy, I'm fine.

Now, while I am willing to take a lot from people because of my objections, I absolutely refuse to be called a racist by you. Let me get one thing clear here, Arumdaum, I may be a lot of things, but racist I am not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. My objection to you being in the Pacific Northwest has nothing to do with believing your claim, or any Asian claim, should be part of a European stronghold empire stretched across the globe. It has to do with the fact that it doesn't make logical sense to me to have it that way. The Aleutian Islands stretch almost to your front door, and it would make logical sense to me as to why you have it. The Pacific Northwest, considering who it is sandwiched in between, just doesn't feel like it makes sense to me. It never will. You want to be rich? Fine. You want to have colonies? Fine. Do whatever makes you happy.

That being said, I did go on about your claim being RPed the way you wanted it versus what the Great War is dictating to you even after it was settled that you would have the Pacific Northwest. I defended you and your idea about becoming part of Japan's sphere of influence during that time. Perhaps, rather than going off halfcocked and subtly alluding to the idea you deem me a racist, you should get your facts straight. Even in my objection to you having it, I defended your right to RP it as you saw fit. Everyone else explained how you had to play with the Aventines in order to maintain it after the Great War. And the European powers have been the traditional colonizers of the world. This is historical fact. This being brought up doesn't make me racist. At least I do not think so. And I never said anything to the effect they did it right (I did mention plunder, if you read what I wrote as well as conquer).

Do what you want. I really don't care. But, allow me to explain one thing in perfectly clear and intelligible English.... you can take your charge of racism and shove it up your mother fucking ass, Arumdaum. Fuck you.

[Cogitation]

Another thing I find odd is that you're completely fine with unrealistically degrading Asians to lost tribes and undiscovered civilizations in the 21st century, yet find a big problem with elevating Asians to positions of power. On the other hand, you're completely fine with colonization so long as the colonizers are white, such as with Argentia.

*** Official Warning: Flamebait. ***

shove it up your mother fucking ass, Arumdaum. Fuck you.

*** Official Warning: Flaming. ***

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

[Chrinthanium]

You know what, I cannot speak for the others in AMW, but as far as I am concerned, Arumdaum, I think you should leave our group.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Appeal denied. Site history notwithstanding (and you actually do have another, unofficial notation on your record from what appears to be a DEAT f7 thread), it was a clear flame.

[Chrinthanium]

Appeal denied. Site history notwithstanding (and you actually do have another, unofficial notation on your record from what appears to be a DEAT f7 thread), it was a clear flame.

Too bad I cannot see this previous issue. I am scratching my head to remember it. Though, if it's there, then I must have done something I assume.

[Beddgelert]

[Stumbles in, yawning and stretching, to see...] Wait, what's happening, here!?

Maybe it's me.... I didn't think Arum was attacking Tiaraan, per se, though maybe Tiaraan felt differently? I think Arum was right, and just trying to suggest a modification to Tiaraan's RP plan that might make it more believable. Tiaraan was choosing to RP rather than retcon the expansion of his territory, which I think is fine though not obligatory, but he had it that the smaller original section would conquer the larger added section, and Arum seemed to be suggesting he could do it the other way around, which is a fair enough suggestion- Tiaraan may not have realised we wouldn't see it as a continuity error. Meanwhile, having an uncontacted people in such a busy and heavily colonised region at such a recent date is asking a lot in terms of suspension of disbelief.

On a relate note, personally I can see how a reader, particularly an Asian reader, might bristle a little at a white player's easy acceptance of romanticised Asian primitives when contrasted with perceived resistance to Asians taking charge in the Americas. I certainly don't think Chrin saw it that way as he were forming his opinions, though.

I hope we can all step back and take a breath, here. AMW's just starting to get some fresh air flowing through it!

[Chrinthanium]

[Stumbles in, yawning and stretching, to see...] Wait, what's happening, here!?

Maybe it's me.... I didn't think Arum was attacking Tiaraan, per se, though maybe Tiaraan felt differently? I think Arum was right, and just trying to suggest a modification to Tiaraan's RP plan that might make it more believable. Tiaraan was choosing to RP rather than retcon the expansion of his territory, which I think is fine though not obligatory, but he had it that the smaller original section would conquer the larger added section, and Arum seemed to be suggesting he could do it the other way around, which is a fair enough suggestion- Tiaraan may not have realised we wouldn't see it as a continuity error. Meanwhile, having an uncontacted people in such a busy and heavily colonised region at such a recent date is asking a lot in terms of suspension of disbelief.

On a relate note, personally I can see how a reader, particularly an Asian reader, might bristle a little at a white player's easy acceptance of romanticised Asian primitives when contrasted with perceived resistance to Asians taking charge in the Americas. I certainly don't think Chrin saw it that way as he were forming his opinions, though.

I hope we can all step back and take a breath, here. AMW's just starting to get some fresh air flowing through it!

Beeg, attempting to calm down the situation isn't going to work. As I think upon this whole ordeal more and more, the more I am poised to recant my wish that Arumdaum exit AMW. This being said, I fully expect an apology for being called racist.

[Amerique]

As I had previously brought up during Arumdaum's application for the Pacific Northwest, Asian exploration and colonization of the West Coast of North America across the Pacific is not unfeasible, in fact it may have actually happened with the Ming Chinese explorer Zheng He. East Asian explorers had traveled as far as the entire East Coast of Africa long before Europeans were even aware of the existence of places like Zanzibar or the Cape and maintained advanced science and trade ahead of European standards. The Europeans just kind of got lucky in the early modern age (1500-1800). I would like to point out that some of the history of my nation involves Dark Ages Celtic tribes successfully making a trans-Atlantic voyage in currachs. Not quite as large or sturdy as the Viking longboats which carried the Norse across to Vinland. Though I do believe it's somewhat unfair for new applicants to have a large population and a wealthy economy, I haven't actually checked the numbers in Arumdaum's factbook.

As far Tiaraan's RP goes, it's a little rough but it's his first experience RPing and he has a small population and just recently acquired an expanded claim, which is still very small compared to every other nation in AMW. He can technically RP whatever he likes with the land he claimed.

[Arumdaum]

[Stumbles in, yawning and stretching, to see...] Wait, what's happening, here!?

Maybe it's me.... I didn't think Arum was attacking Tiaraan, per se, though maybe Tiaraan felt differently? I think Arum was right, and just trying to suggest a modification to Tiaraan's RP plan that might make it more believable. Tiaraan was choosing to RP rather than retcon the expansion of his territory, which I think is fine though not obligatory, but he had it that the smaller original section would conquer the larger added section, and Arum seemed to be suggesting he could do it the other way around, which is a fair enough suggestion- Tiaraan may not have realised we wouldn't see it as a continuity error. Meanwhile, having an uncontacted people in such a busy and heavily colonised region at such a recent date is asking a lot in terms of suspension of disbelief.

On a relate note, personally I can see how a reader, particularly an Asian reader, might bristle a little at a white player's easy acceptance of romanticised Asian primitives when contrasted with perceived resistance to Asians taking charge in the Americas. I certainly don't think Chrin saw it that way as he were forming his opinions, though.

I hope we can all step back and take a breath, here. AMW's just starting to get some fresh air flowing through it!

Beeg, attempting to calm down the situation isn't going to work. As I think upon this whole ordeal more and more, the more I am poised to recant my wish that Arumdaum exit AMW. This being said, I fully expect an apology for being called racist.

Although I did think that the atmosphere was going to get more heated as the argument dragged on, I never expected that my post would evoke such a strong reaction. I guess it's fair to say that I had aggravated you in ways that others did not in the past, and for that I apologize. I'm also sorry for the unfortunate disruption to the group that I may have caused.

Hopefully we can have a better time RPing together from now on.

[Chrinthanium]

Beeg, attempting to calm down the situation isn't going to work. As I think upon this whole ordeal more and more, the more I am poised to recant my wish that Arumdaum exit AMW. This being said, I fully expect an apology for being called racist.

Although I did think that the atmosphere was going to get more heated as the argument dragged on, I never expected that my post would evoke such a strong reaction. I guess it's fair to say that I had aggravated you in ways that others did not in the past, and for that I apologize. I'm also sorry for the unfortunate disruption to the group that I may have caused.

Hopefully we can have a better time RPing together from now on.

This was beyond simple aggravation. Your accusation of racism is a high insult to me, quite possibly the most insulting thing, and to me the most vile of accusations, that anyone on this site or in this group has ever said to my face. The fact of the matter is, I seriously do not wish, and cannot in honesty, operate in a collaborative group with someone who would think that any objection I had stemmed from that dark of a place. Simply put, the entire idea that you would even think this of me is mind boggling. And quite honestly, it is hurtful. Rather than explain your reasoning, you jumped to baseless allegation. I have stated, and I will state again and forever, that if you want your claim to be rich, and powerful, and have colonies, I have no objection to this.

Frankly, though, the words you wrote did not speak to the real issue at hand and as a result, I still believe you have it within your heart and mind that I am racist in nature. That's where my anger came from. Not from being aggravated, not from being questioned, but by being labelled as something that I find as vile. The fact that no apology came from you for calling me racist is somewhat disappointing. That was the trigger mechanism for my rage, anger, and quite frankly, my disagreement with you.

But, for the greater good of the group, and in the spirit of collaboration and good will, I am willing to drop the whole thing. This is not a grand gesture on my part, but a desire to move on from here and put this group back on its present course.

[Chrinthanium]

Now, in returning to normal....

As promised, I has maps...

AMW Claims Map: http://i.imgur.com/K3XyDYl.png
AMW Locator Map: http://i.imgur.com/fFhxzUc.png

For Tia'raan and Korea... I have the ability to add your cities to the map (this goes for all AMW nations). The only limit to the amount of cities I can place on a map is determined by the size of your landmass. Thus, if you're a small nation, I might only get your capital on there.

[Arumdaum]

Korea:
Capital: Seoul
Pyeongyang (with this spelling, Revised Romanization)
Busan
Hamheung (again, with this spelling)

China:
Gamoksa (Jiamusi)
Heukha (Heihe)
Gillim (Jilin City)

Russia:
Haesamwi (Vladivostok)
Yewon (Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk)
Naenggeumgang (Yakutsk)

US:
Sinhae (Seattle)
Imsan (Portland)
Heuksagang (Anchorage)

[Chrinthanium]

Korea:
Capital: Seoul
Pyeongyang (with this spelling, Revised Romanization)
Busan
Hamheung (again, with this spelling)

China:
Gamoksa (Jiamusi)
Heukha (Heihe)
Gillim (Jilin City)

Russia:
Haesamwi (Vladivostok)
Yewon (Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk)
Naenggeumgang (Yakutsk)

US:
Sinhae (Seattle)
Imsan (Portland)
Heuksagang (Anchorage)

I will get those added shortly.

EDIT: AMW Locator Map with new cities added!