Summit Progression - Changes To Be Implemented

[Mousebumples]

I've been away on vacation, so I haven't been talking to Admin, but if you guys want to try to knock out details on how to implement some of these ideas further, I'd think they'd work better in the specific threads rather than being shoved in this topic haphazardly, where specific implementation details of Idea A is not the topic.

If you want something added to the game that's not included in these summit topics (like Guy's No WA Admissions during update), make a Technical thread. Adding more and more ideas that were not a part of the Summit is not going to magically make the Summit more helpful or useful or ... whatever word you want to use.

I also understand that you guys are frustrated, but - especially for those of you who weren't around/active/involved in the Summit 3 years ago - take a look through the thread(s) that interest you most and try to look at it with a clear set of eyes. If you have ideas for how things should be implemented (either in a non-R/D way - for the limited implementation of Regional Officers, as discussed above - or fully implemented in XYZ way), here's a few general tips to consider for your post:

1) Be specific. You know what you're thinking, but last I checked, none of the admins have Mind Reading Powers. Go into way more detail than you think you need and show step-by-step of how your preferred implementation of the idea would work.

2) Include image mock-ups or the like where relevant. If you think Idea ABC should be displayed in a particular way, try to create something in MS Paint, Photoshop, or even using BBCode to display how you'd prefer to see things setup. This may not be relevant to every Summit Idea, but if there's something that you have a vision in mind for - like with Item #1 - be specific.

3) Be constructive. If you want to debate R/D, we have a whole subforum for that. That is not what this subforum is for. If you feel that a particular player's detailed explanation of what they'd like will slant R/D too strongly towards one side or the other, you can certainly say so, but be sure to explain the why/how for your disagreement. And, if possible, try to offer alternate suggestions or adaptations to make the change more equitable.

4) Try to look at things from other perspectives. I know that this can be a challenge for me since my personal R/D experience was refounding Monkey Island ... maybe 8 or 9 years ago? But try to look at your specific suggestion (from #1) from different viewpoints.

• How will your suggested change impact tag raiding?
• How will it impact long-term holds and attempts at refounds?
• How will it impact subterfuge and intelligence gathering?
• How will it impact natives before, during, and after a raid?
• How will it impact the non-R/D player that just wants to enjoy their (foundered) region?
• How will it impact players whose Home Region updates early or updates late?
• How will it impact mid-update recruitment efforts by either side to get more WA nations for their target?
• How will it impact the CTE rate of regional founders?
• How will it impact Security Council activity?

There are probably more things to think about that I didn't include - and some of these won't be relevant for every idea. Still, whether you're posting in this subforum or in a new shiny thread in Techincal, I think they're important things to consider.

[Cormac Stark]

Since we've now had Regional Officers rolled out with [violet] and moderators stating that part of the three year delay was discussing every possible bad scenario and how to fix them, with the ultimate decision being made to roll it out and fix as necessary...

Can we now expect other changes like Delegate-Elect, Estimated Update Times, Reformation, Custodian, etc., that might favor defenders and natives as much as Regional Officers is going to favor raiders, to be rolled out faster? Or are we going to have to wait a few more months or years while you discuss how these changes can be implemented without doing harm to raiding?

[Valrifell]

Since we've now had Regional Officers rolled out with [violet] and moderators stating that part of the three year delay was discussing every possible bad scenario and how to fix them, with the ultimate decision being made to roll it out and fix as necessary...

Can we now expect other changes like Delegate-Elect, Estimated Update Times, Reformation, Custodian, etc., that might favor defenders and natives as much as Regional Officers is going to favor raiders, to be rolled out faster? Or are we going to have to wait a few more months or years while you discuss how these changes can be implemented without doing harm to raiding?

Cormac, if they did that, they couldn't be helping Raiders even more, now would they? Give them time to find something to twist in our favor, geez.

[Ardortia]

Can someone just implement the random update order and get this over with?

While I have no idea how you guys implement this on your end (since it is a black box and the code is not publicly available...), I'll speculate and pull assumptions out of my rear end to write this (I seriously doubt this site's backend is written in Java).

Code: Select all

String[] arrayRegions; // already exists
ArrayList<String> regionList = new ArrayList();
regionList.addAll(Arrays.asList(arrayRegions));
regionList = Collections.shuffle(regionList, new Random().nextInt(999999999)); // use a random seed for the shuffling so it cannot be easily found

// for loop to process

[Sedgistan]

Can someone just implement the random update order and get this over with?

Nope, and it's not that easy.

We're going to be revisiting each of these changes in the near future (with the exception of Reformation, which was dropped) to iron out details, but we need to see how ROs bed in first.

[Pierconium]

The 'Reformation' addition was noted as tabled in January 2014 but is still labelled as #5 on the list of 'things to implement' while some of the others in here have already been added.

Can we get a current list of the changes that are planned in the expected order in which they will be implemented? Obviously, I know that this would not be a firm list but I would at least like to know what points I should be arguing for or against at present.

Thanks.

[Sedgistan]

The numbers aren't related to the order they'll be implemented in - it's pure coincidence that the influence in GCRs one came first. I've edited the title of Reformation to make its status clearer.

At the moment, we don't have plans for what order the rest of the changes will come in. At a guess, I'd say Annex will be later, as it's a concept that needs a lot of work. Delegate Elect has had a fair amount of admin work done on it, but again has some issues with a lack of consensus over how it'll work. The Update Times and Custodian changes may be the next to come - but please don't consider that a definite.

[Pierconium]

The numbers aren't related to the order they'll be implemented in - it's pure coincidence that the influence in GCRs one came first. I've edited the title of Reformation to make its status clearer.

At the moment, we don't have plans for what order the rest of the changes will come in. At a guess, I'd say Annex will be later, as it's a concept that needs a lot of work. Delegate Elect has had a fair amount of admin work done on it, but again has some issues with a lack of consensus over how it'll work. The Update Times and Custodian changes may be the next to come - but please don't consider that a definite.

Okay, thank you.

[Canton Empire]

Can someone just implement the random update order and get this over with?

While I have no idea how you guys implement this on your end (since it is a black box and the code is not publicly available...), I'll speculate and pull assumptions out of my rear end to write this (I seriously doubt this site's backend is written in Java).

Code: Select all

String[] arrayRegions; // already exists
ArrayList<String> regionList = new ArrayList();
regionList.addAll(Arrays.asList(arrayRegions));
regionList = Collections.shuffle(regionList, new Random().nextInt(999999999)); // use a random seed for the shuffling so it cannot be easily found

// for loop to process

NS is written in Perl

[Flying Circus 6]

"The summit wasn't seen through to the end"

What happened?

[Guy]

That's a wonderful question. My sig might help.

[Sedgistan]

The actual "summit" part of it (the discussion) was over-ambitious. The changes presented were also more than admin had expected, but they're being worked through.

[United States of Natan]

The actual "summit" part of it (the discussion) was over-ambitious. The changes presented were also more than admin had expected, but they're being worked through.

So are the changes proposed still planned for implementation?

[Sedgistan]

I already answered that:

The changes presented were also more than admin had expected, but they're being worked through.

[NOrTh pAcIfiC spY]

I already answered that:

The changes presented were also more than admin had expected, but they're being worked through.

Adding on (correct me if I'm wrong with any of this), the Reformation proposal is on hold for the moment (and hopefully forever). Influence in Feeders/Sinkers has been already implemented, along with Regional Officers. Estimated Update Times is in progress we've been repeatedly assured, Ballo is working on it when he's got time between normal admin things. Delegate Elect and Custodian need a bit more input, but the basic idea is there, although consensus hasn't been fully achieved. Annexation hasn't ever been fleshed out officially, so needs a lot more input/consensus.

[United States of Natan]

I already answered that:

The changes presented were also more than admin had expected, but they're being worked through.

Ah, ok. That answer seemed a little too ambiguous.

[Flying Circus 6]

Just a general question.

Assuming you are already working on them, which one is most likely to be released first, if they are to be released at all?

[Flanderlion]

Just a general question.

Assuming you are already working on them, which one is most likely to be released first, if they are to be released at all?

Estimated Update Times they've said would be released shortly a while ago. Then again, they said the same back in 2013 or so.

[NOrTh pAcIfiC spY]

Which one is in progress??

Estimated Update Times - Ballo's evidently working on that. Replied here rather than threadjacking Delegate Elect.