Tales of Two Horizons OOC-Open

[The Jonathanian States]

Hey ICD, is Venice staying a republic?

Venice has never been a republic

You are objectively wrong.

A republic (from Latin: res publica) is a form of government or country[1] in which power resides in elected individuals representing the citizen body[2][3] and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law. In modern times, the definition of a republic is commonly limited to a government which excludes a monarch.[3][4]

So, let's look at the conditions:

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

I believe we have a triple.

It has been an Oligarchic republic headed by a Doge

And the Doge is a Monarch albeit elected one.
Republic=/=Monarch

A monarch is the sovereign head of state[1] in a monarchy.[2] A monarch may exercise the most and highest authority in the state or others may wield that power on behalf of the monarch. Typically a monarch either personally inherits the lawful right to exercise the state's sovereign rights (often referred to as the throne or the crown) or is selected by an established process from a family or cohort eligible to provide the nation's monarch. Alternatively, an individual may become monarch by conquest, acclamation or a combination of means. A monarch usually reigns for life or until abdication. Monarchs' actual powers vary from one monarchy to another and in different eras; on one extreme, they may be autocrats (absolute monarchy) wielding genuine sovereignty; on the other they may be ceremonial heads of state who exercise little or no power or only reserve powers, with actual authority vested in a parliament or other body (constitutional monarchy).

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Error in Line 2, please review definitions.

---

And the Doge is a Monarch albeit elected one.
Republic=/=Monarch

Fairly certain we already had this debate in another thread, fairly certain we came to the conclusion that Venice was a republic as it derived it's authority from the people - albeit only the rich ones - rather than from God, as a kingdom would have.

Yes.

[Jaslandia]

Application

Name: Grand Duchy of Epirus
Symbols: Flag of Epirus, Coat of arms, Byzantine double-headed eagle
Claims: Roughly RL Albania (39 on map)
Power: Tertiary power

Government Structure: Absolute monarchy with some elements of parliamentary monarchy. The government is led by the Grand Duke or Duchess, assisted by a cabinet of ministers responsible only to the monarch. While the monarch guides all state affairs, the Senate has some control. After the Epirote Revolution, the Senate was given various financial powers, such as the ability to impose tariffs, to regulate commerce, build and manage infrastructure, and to control the tax rate. The last of those powers is held by both the Senate and monarch, though the monarch must always get approval from the Senate before raising or lowering taxes. In addition, the monarch must get the Senate’s approval before declaring war. However, all other powers (namely defense and foreign affairs) are held solely by the monarch, and he/she has unlimited control in those areas.

Ideology/Policy: The government policy of the nation is guided by protectionism, nationalism, and traditionalism. From clothing to government titles to ideals, Epirus is very much a state stuck in the past. The government frequently harkens back to antiquity, when Epirus was a powerful and influential state, and much of Epirote culture is based on Roman and Byzantine ideas. Everything is focused on increasing the glory and power of the Epirote nation, hence the government’s favoring of protectionist tariffs. This also ties into Epirus’s ethnic disunity, and much of the government’s praise of Epirus’s past is intended to create a common history for what many see as an artificial state, and to create a cohesive national identity among Greeks, Albanians, and Italians.

Leaders: Grand Duchess Theodora I
Grand Duke Michael III
Consul Dionysios Papadopoulos

Capital City: Dyrrachium

Population: 530,000
Primary Ethnic Group: Greek
Minority Ethnic Groups: Albanian, Italian
Description of Ethnicity: The people of Epirus are strong but divided. The Greeks and Albanians make of the majority (with the Greeks being the larger group), and the two ethnicities have similar interests. On the opposite side, the Italians (mostly clustered around the nation's port cities) dominate Epirus’s commercial life, and while Greeks mostly control the government, Italians make up Epirus’s wealthiest citizens. There has long been struggle between these two factions (Greeks and Albanians vs. Italians), and that conflict has always divided the country. Still, thanks to the nationalism efforts of successive Epirote governments, all ethnic groups have a shared loyalty to the Epirote state and the monarch. This shared loyalty has kept the nation together, and when push comes to shove, the peoples of Epirus are willing to stand together to defend their home.

Language: The official national language and the language of the majority of the people is Greek. However, Albanian and Italian are minority languages (Italian is concentrated in the cities, while Albanian is mostly in the rural countryside), and both languages have a degree of regional recognition and accommodation.

Religion: The official state religion is Greek Orthodox. The Epirote government strongly supports the Orthodox Church in Epirus both politically and financially. However, other religions are not persecuted.

Foreign Relations: Epirus’s closest ally is Venice, and Epirus and Venice have a long friendship, dating back centuries. While Epirus has not been a protectorate of Venice since the Epirote Revolution of 1789, the two nations are still extremely close, to the point that you wouldn’t be entirely wrong to say Epirus is still a Venetian protectorate.

Epirus’s relationship with Greece is very tense, mainly over Greek Epirus. Epirus theoretically claims the portion of Epirus that is within the borders of Greece, much to the anger of the Hellenes; interestingly, the region defined as ‘Epirus’ during classical and medieval times is mostly within the borders of what is now Greece. Overall, the Epirotes see the Greeks as untrustworthy and shifty, while the Greeks see Epirus as a land-stealer and a minion of Venetian interests that is unworthy to be named after the great kingdom of antiquity.

Relations with Hungary are decent. Hungary has good relations with Venice, and Epirus has taken the stance that any friend of Venice is a friend of Epirus.

Relations with the Two Sicilies are cautious. While Epirus hopes that Naples can be a friend, at the same time, there are strong concerns that the Kingdom of Two Sicilies intends to conquer Epirus in the future.

However, there is one nation the Epirotes utterly despise: the Sultanate of Rum. The Epirotes still remember the Turks overrunning the original Epirote homeland, and the Epirote war against Rum during the 15th century is a point of national pride for Epirus. The people of Epirus wish to see Rum destroyed, even if it means working with unlikely allies.

Epirus has neutral relations with Western powers like France, Britain, and Prussia. While Epirotes still resent Western Europe’s support of Greece during the Greek War of Independence, at the same time, the Western powers are seen as Epirus’s last hope, and the intervention from one of those Great Powers could save Epirus from falling to the Greeks or the Turks.

Military Information: The military of Epirus is of moderate quality overall. The army is of poor quality and consists mostly of conscripts, as Epirus counts on Venice or another ally providing military support if Epirus is threatened. However, the navy is very good, being relatively large in terms of ships, and benefiting from Venetian training.

Army Size: The Epirote Army is divided into two branches. First is the Grand Duchess’s Guard, an elite force of 245 men, who have the latest weapons and training, The regular army, the Army of Epirus, is not so skilled, being composed of 5,200 men. However, an additional 29,000 men can be called up through conscription in times of war, forming the Reserve Army of Epirus. The army is split evenly among three army groups: the Northern Army (based at Skodra), the Central Army (based at Tirana), and the Southern Army (based at Aulon). In addition, the Guard is based at Dyrrachium.

Navy Size: The navy is of high quality, having been trained by the seagoing Venetians. The Epirote Navy has more ships compared to some of its rivals, but still pales in comparison to the major naval powers of the world. The navy currently consists of:
2 Ships of the Line (the Alexander and the Pyrrhus)
5 Frigates (the Anna I, the Dyrrachium, the Aulon, the Nikephoros II, and the Aeacides)
3 Sloops (the Neoptolemos, the Skodra, and the Apollonia)
25 Galleys

Economic Policy: The economy of Epirus is highly regulated, with protectionist policies. Tariffs are high, though they are significantly lower for Venice and other allies of Epirus. While Anna I and Nikephoros II maintained high taxes, Theodora has taken steps to lower taxes. Government keeps a close watch on industry.

Economic Situation: Epirus’s economic situation is acceptable, but not admirable. Epirus’s position as a Christian state in on the Balkan side of the Adriatic has made it a trade hub, and that trade is readily taxed by the Epirote government. However, the benefits of this trade have not spread outside the port cities; Tirana is the only major inland city, and much of the country is still rural and agrarian. Epirus has taken some steps to industrialize and attract more manufactories, but with little success.

Infrastructure: The infrastructure of Epirus is of moderate quality. Under Venetian rule, roads were improved, and while Epirote roads aren’t the best in the world, they’re among the better roads among the Balkan states. Epirus does, however, have a well-developed port infrastructure, with the country’s primary ports at Dyrrachium and Aulon being among the busiest ports on the Adriatic.

Imports & Exports:
Imports: Manufactured goods, food, textiles
Exports: Ores, metals, vegetables, fruit, olives

Currency: The Epirote Solidus

History: While Epirus was a notable kingdom during classical times, modern Epirus dates to the Fourth Crusade of 1204. After sacking Constantinople, the Crusaders partitioned the Byzantine Empire, with the Despotate of Epirus being one of these new states. Michael I Komnenos Doukas, a cousin to the Byzantine emperors, established his own principality in Epirus, and quickly consolidated his new realm. Under the Kommnenos-Doukas dynasty, Epirus was a center of Greek culture, as Constantinople was under the control of the Crusader-run Latin Empire. With the exception of a brief interlude in the 1270s, when Charles of Anjou took control of Epirus, the Despotate was an independent state and a symbol of resistance against the influence of the Crusaders. However, as the Empire of Nicaea rose to prominence, culminating in the capture of Constantinople and the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire, Epirus aligned itself with Nicaea, to the point that Epirus was practically a Nicene puppet.

However, as Byzantine power declined, Epirus turned to the Italian states for support, and in the 14th century, the Epirote royal family married into multiple Italian noble houses. This culminated in 1318, when upon the death of Despot Thomas I (most likely by assassination), his cousin Nicholas Orisini successfully claimed the throne of Epirus. The Orisini ruled until 1402, when the Byzantines regained control of Epirus. However, Byzantine power was rapidly fading, and Epirus became independent again in 1411, under another Italian noble house (the House of Tocco).

In 1453, Constantinople fell to the Turks of Rum. Despot Leonardo III was quick to respond, and helped form the League of Thessalonica to push back the Turks. Working with the Morean League, Venice, and various Balkan states, Epirus defeated the Turks in battle, and drove them out of Constantinople. Shortly afterwards, the League broke down and was dissolved.

With the League having been short-lived, the Turks continued their advance, and by 1524, all of Greece except Epirus had fallen to Rum. The Venetians, desperate to maintain a Christian bastion in Greece, rushed to defend Epirus. Sadly, the Venetian aid arrived too late; by the time a fleet of soldiers and ships arrived, much of the Epirote state was in disarray, with the army in full-retreat, and most of the Tocco family captured by the Turks. However, Venice was obstinate, and helped organize a withdrawal from all Epirote lands south of Corfu, with a new state being established in the north (around RL Albania). The Italian house of Barbarigo was made ruler of this new nation, and the Grand Duchy of Epirus was born.

Establishing the Epirote capital at Tirana, the first Grand Duke Nicolò Barbarigo set to work establishing his new state, building a new government, and subduing the native Albanian population. Epirus enjoyed a long period of prosperity, being protected militarily by Venice, while Epirus’s position on the Adriatic and Ionian seas made it a hub of trade. Even as Venice declined during the 17th and 18th centuries, Epirus stuck by its Italian protector, and continued to be a commercial center.

The French Revolution of 1789 interrupted this pattern of peace. With an Italian noble class having ruled over a majority Greek and Albanian country for centuries, resentment built up among the people. The news of the revolt by Parisian citizens inspired the Greeks and Albanians, who started their own revolt in 1790. The Venetian leadership, seeing Epirus as a valuable protectorate that could not be lost, panicked. The Venetian military response was ineffective, and the Greco-Albanian rebels won victory after victory.

Finally, in 1792 the Venetians realized they needed a different approach. Venice decided their best hope was to offer a new candidate for the throne, and hope the people would accept their new monarch. Soon, the Republic of Venice discovered Anna Doukaina, a noblewoman living in Durazzo who claimed to be descendant of a Byzantine imperial dynasty. The Venetians put their support behind Anna, and disowned the Barbarigo dynasty. With a new dynasty for the people to rally around, the pro-Venetian forces began to gain victories, and by 1795, the country was under the complete control of the Doukas dynasty for the first time in 500 years.

Seeking to prevent further discontent, Anna quickly set to work reforming the government. The practice of giving Italians preference in the civil service was ended, Anna cracked down on corruption, and Greek replaced Venetian Italian as the court language. Anna also sought to inspire national pride, adopting regalia styled on that of Byzantine empresses, moving the capital of Epirus to the ancient city (and Anna's hometown) of Durazzo (which subsequently reverted to its Roman name of Dyrrachium), and renaming many government posts to their Byzantine or Roman equivalent. Finally, Anna introduced a weak parliament to placate the people, appropriately called the Senate. However, despite all of her efforts, Anna failed to create a unified Epirote national identity, something that still plagues the Grand Duchy to this day,

In 1827, Anna died, and as she had no surviving issue, her younger brother Nikephoros II inherited the throne. Nikephoros patronized the arts, and his reign saw a sort of renaissance in Greek culture. Sadly, Nikephoros was already elderly and sickly when he came to the throne, and he died of pneumonia in 1833. Nikephoros was succeeded by his granddaughter, Theodora. Upon coming to the throne, Theodora declared her husband Michael as co-ruler, though Theodora is clearly the senior partner. Under Theodora and Michael, patronage of Greek culture has continued, and the royal court is a vibrant and extravagant affair. Still, with the increasingly bellicose rhetoric of the Greeks, Theodora and Michael may soon have to shift their attention to military matters. But, no matter what happens, Epirus shall be determined to retain its sovereignty, and the Epirote spirit will remain strong.

Miscellaneous: Please don’t invade me.
RP Example: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=353341#p25977185
429

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Venice has never been a republic

You are objectively wrong.

A republic (from Latin: res publica) is a form of government or country[1] in which power resides in elected individuals representing the citizen body[2][3] and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law. In modern times, the definition of a republic is commonly limited to a government which excludes a monarch.[3][4]

So, let's look at the conditions:

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

I believe we have a triple.

And the Doge is a Monarch albeit elected one.
Republic=/=Monarch

A monarch is the sovereign head of state[1] in a monarchy.[2] A monarch may exercise the most and highest authority in the state or others may wield that power on behalf of the monarch. Typically a monarch either personally inherits the lawful right to exercise the state's sovereign rights (often referred to as the throne or the crown) or is selected by an established process from a family or cohort eligible to provide the nation's monarch. Alternatively, an individual may become monarch by conquest, acclamation or a combination of means. A monarch usually reigns for life or until abdication. Monarchs' actual powers vary from one monarchy to another and in different eras; on one extreme, they may be autocrats (absolute monarchy) wielding genuine sovereignty; on the other they may be ceremonial heads of state who exercise little or no power or only reserve powers, with actual authority vested in a parliament or other body (constitutional monarchy).

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Error in Line 2, please review definitions.

---

Fairly certain we already had this debate in another thread, fairly certain we came to the conclusion that Venice was a republic as it derived it's authority from the people - albeit only the rich ones - rather than from God, as a kingdom would have.

Yes.

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Except those describe the Doge, who was the head of all Venetian Governmental institutions, and had varying degrees of sovereignty.

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

1.) So Constitutional monarchies aren't Monarchies? Better tell the Brits.
2.) most Monarchy's now follow the rule of Law
3.) is wrong,

Even Wikipedia agrees.

[Senkaku]

Guys. Cut it out with the arguing, or at least spoiler it or take it to telegrams. You're cluttering the place up at this point.


That especially goes for Allen and Jon.

[Senkaku]

You are objectively wrong.

So, let's look at the conditions:

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

I believe we have a triple.

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Error in Line 2, please review definitions.

---

Yes.

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Except those describe the Doge, who was the head of all Venetian Governmental institutions, and had varying degrees of sovereignty.

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

1.) So Constitutional monarchies aren't Monarchies? Better tell the Brits.
2.) most Monarchy's now follow the rule of Law
3.) is wrong,

Even Wikipedia agrees.

Venice is a republic. Continue to argue about it, and I will be severely annoyed.

[Elepis]

WIP

Application

Name: Grand Duchy of Epirus
Symbols:
Claims: Roughly RL Albania (39 on map)
Power: Tertiary power

Government Structure: Absolute monarchy with some elements of parliamentary monarchy. The government is led by the Grand Duke or Duchess, assisted by a cabinet of ministers responsible only to the monarch. While the monarch guides all state affairs, the Senate has some control. After the Epirote Revolution, the Senate was given various financial powers, such as the ability to impose tariffs, to regulate commerce, build and manage infrastructure, and to control the tax rate. The last of those powers is held by both the Senate and monarch, though the monarch must always get approval from the Senate before raising or lowering taxes. In addition, the monarch must get the Senate’s approval before declaring war. However, all other powers (namely defense and foreign affairs) are held solely by the monarch, and he/she has unlimited control in those areas.
Ideology/Policy:
Leaders: Grand Duchess Theodora I; Grand Duke Michael III
Capital City: Dyrrachium

Population: 530,000
Primary Ethnic Group: Greek
Minority Ethnic Groups: Albanian, Italian
Description of Ethnicity:
Language: The official national language and the language of the majority of the people is Greek. However, Albanian and Italian are minority languages (Italian is concentrated in the cities, while Albanian is mostly in the rural countryside), and both languages have a degree of regional recognition and accommodation.

Religion: The official state religion is Greek Orthodox. The Epirote government strongly supports the Orthodox Church in Epirus both politically and financially. However, other religions are not persecuted.

Foreign Relations: Epirus’s closest ally is Venice, and Epirus and Venice have a long friendship, dating back centuries. While Epirus has not been a protectorate of Venice since the Epirote Revolution of 1789, the two nations are still extremely close, to the point that you wouldn’t be entirely wrong to say Epirus is still a Venetian protectorate.

Epirus’s relationship with Greece is very tense, mainly over Greek Epirus. Epirus theoretically claims the portion of Epirus that is within the borders of Greece, much to the anger of the Hellenes. The Epirotes see the Greeks as untrustworthy land-stealers, while the Greeks see Epirus as minion of Italian interests that is unworthy to be named after the great kingdom of antiquity.

Similarly, relations with Hungary are tense. This is mainly due to Hungary’s close relationship with Greece.

However, there is one nation the Epirotes utterly despise: the Sultanate of Rum. The Epirotes still remember the Turks overrunning the original Epirote homeland, and the Epirote war against the Ottomans during the 15th century is a point of national pride for Epirus. The people of Epirus wish to see Rum destroyed, even if it means working with unlikely allies.

Epirus has neutral relations with Western powers like France, Britain, and Prussia. While Epirotes still resent Western Europe’s support of Greece during the Greek War of Independence, at the same time, the Western powers are seen as Epirus last hope, and the intervention from one of those Great Powers could save Epirus from falling to the Greeks or the Turks.

Military Information:
Army Size:
Navy Size:

Economic Policy:
Economic Situation:
Infrastructure:
Imports & Exports:
Imports: Manufactured goods, food, textiles
Exports: Ores, metals, vegetables, fruit, olives

Currency: The Epirote Solidus

History: While Epirus was a notable kingdom during classical times, modern Epirus dates to the Fourth Crusade of 1204. After sacking Constantinople, the Crusaders partitioned the Byzantine Empire, with the Despotate of Epirus being one of these new states. Michael I Komnenos Doukas, a cousin to the Byzantine emperors, established his own principality in Epirus, and quickly consolidated his new realm. Under Kommnenos-Doukas dynasty, Epirus was a center of Greek culture, as Constantinople was under the control of the Crusader-run Latin Empire. However, as the Empire of Nicaea rose to prominence, culminating in the capture of Constantinople and the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire, Epirus aligned itself with Nicaea, to the point that Epirus was practically a Nicene puppet.

However, as Byzantine power declined, Epirus turned to the Italian states for support, and in the 14th century, the Epirote royal family married into multiple Italian noble houses. This culminated in 1318, when upon the death of Despot Thomas I (most likely by assassination), his cousin Nicholas Orisini successfully claimed the throne of Epirus. The Orisini ruled until 1402, when the Byzantines regained control of Epirus. However, Byzantine power was rapidly fading, and Epirus became independent again in 1411, under another Italian noble house (the House of Tocco).

In 1453, Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks. Despot Leonardo III was quick to respond, and helped form the League of Thessalonica to push back the Turks. Working with the Morean League, Venice, and various Balkan states, Epirus defeated the Turks in battle, and drove them out of Constantinople. Shortly afterwards, the League broke down and was dissolved.

With the League having been short-lived, the Ottomans continued their advance, and by 1524, all of Greece besides Epirus had fallen to the Ottomans. The Venetians, desperate to maintain a Christian bastion in Greece, rush to defend Epirus. Sadly, the Venetian aid arrives too late; by the time a fleet of soldiers and ships arrived, much of the Epirote state was in disarray, with the army in full-retreat, and most of the Tocco family captured by the Turks. However, Venice was obstinate, and helped organize a withdrawal from all Epirote lands south of Corfu, with a new state being established in the north (around RL Albania). The Italian house of Barbarigo was made ruler of this new nation, and the Grand Duchy of Epirus was born.

Establishing the Epirote capital at Tirana, the first Grand Duke Nicolò Barbarigo set to work establishing his new state, building a new government, and subduing the native Albanian population. Epirus enjoyed a long period of prosperity, being protected militarily by Venice, while Epirus’s position on the Adriatic and Ionian seas made it a hub of trade. Even as Venice declined during the 17th and 18th centuries, Epirus stuck by its Italian protector, and continued to be a commercial center.

The French Revolution of 1789 interrupted this pattern of peace. With an Italian noble class having ruled over a majority Greek and Albanian country for centuries, resentment built up among the people. The news of the revolt by Parisian citizens inspired the Greeks and Albanians, who started their own revolt in 1790. The Venetian leadership, seeing Epirus as a valuable protectorate that could not be lost, panicked. The Venetian military response was ineffective, and the Greco-Albanian rebels won victory after victory.

Finally, in 1792 the Venetians realized they needed a different approach. Venice decided their best hope was to offer a new candidate for the throne, and hope the people would accept their new monarch. Soon, the Republic of Venice discovered Anna Doukaina, a noblewoman living in Durazzo who claimed to be descendant of a Byzantine imperial dynasty. The Venetians put their support behind Anna, and disowned the Barbarigo dynasty. With a new dynasty for the people to rally around, the pro-Venetian forces began to gain victories, and by 1795, the country was under the complete control of the Doukas dynasty for the first time in 500 years.

Seeking to prevent further discontent, Anna quickly set to work reforming the government. The practice of giving Italians preference in the civil service was ended, Anna cracked down on corruption, and Greek replaced Venetian Italian as the court language. Anna also sought to inspire national pride, adopting regalia styled on that of Byzantine empresses, moving the capital of Epirus to the ancient city (and Anna's hometown) of Durazzo (which subsequently reverted to its Roman name of Dyrrachium), and renaming many government posts to their Byzantine or Roman equivalent. Finally, Anna introduced a weak parliament to placate the people, appropriately called the Senate. However, despite all of her efforts, Anna failed to create a unified Epirote national identity, something that still plagues the Grand Duchy to this day,

In 1827, Anna died, and as she had no surviving issue, her younger brother Nikephoros II inherited the throne. Nikephoros patronized the arts, and his reign saw a sort of renaissance in Greek culture. Sadly, Nikephoros was already elderly and sickly when he came to the throne, and he died of pneumonia in 1833. Nikephoros was succeeded by his granddaughter, Theodora. Upon coming to the throne, Theodora declared her husband Michael as co-ruler, though Theodora is clearly the senior partner. Under Theodora and Michael, patronage of Greek culture has continued, and the royal court is a vibrant and extravagant affair. Still, with the increasingly bellicose rhetoric of the Greeks, Theodora and Michael may soon have to shift their attention to military matters. But, no matter what happens, Epirus shall be determined to retain its sovereignty, and the Epirote spirit will remain strong

Miscellaneous:
RP Example: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p25977185
429

The Ottomans never came along, their place was taken by Rum

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

• Sovereign Head of State
• Most and highest authority or others have it on behalf the monarch

Except those describe the Doge, who was the head of all Venetian Governmental institutions, and had varying degrees of sovereignty.

• Power resides in elected individuals
• Power exercised according to rule of law
• No Monarch

1.) So Constitutional monarchies aren't Monarchies? Better tell the Brits.
2.) most Monarchy's now follow the rule of Law
3.) is wrong,

Even Wikipedia agrees.

Venice is a republic. Continue to argue about it, and I will be severely annoyed.

Why? It is Historically recognized as a Crowned republic, much like the United Kingdom and Canada.

[Senkaku]

Venice is a republic. Continue to argue about it, and I will be severely annoyed.

Why? It is Historically recognized as a Crowned republic, much like the United Kingdom and Canada.

Crowned republic

republic

I don't want to hear anything more about it, ICD. Am I clear?


The Doge is not a monarch. He is elected for life by the city's aristocracy. Thus oligarchical republic.

The United Kingdom is organized as a republic with a hereditary figurehead monarch at the top. Canada just technically has her as the head of state and she doesn't actually do anything in either one.

[Elepis]

Why? It is Historically recognized as a Crowned republic, much like the United Kingdom and Canada.

Crowned republic

republic

I don't want to hear anything more about it, ICD. Am I clear?


The Doge is not a monarch. He is elected for life by the city's aristocracy. Thus oligarchical republic.

The United Kingdom is organized as a republic with a hereditary figurehead monarch at the top. Canada just technically has her as the head of state and she doesn't actually do anything in either one.

Do the Canadians, Australians etc pay tax to Liz like we do in Britain?

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

Why? It is Historically recognized as a Crowned republic, much like the United Kingdom and Canada.

Crowned republic

republic

I don't want to hear anything more about it, ICD. Am I clear?


The Doge is not a monarch. He is elected for life by the city's aristocracy. Thus oligarchical republic.

The United Kingdom is organized as a republic with a hereditary figurehead monarch at the top. Canada just technically has her as the head of state and she doesn't actually do anything in either one.

Doesn't matter in the Timeline anyways, Since Venice has been reformed and streamlined into a normal C-Mon

[Liecthenbourg]

I don't want to hear anything more about it, ICD. Am I clear?


The Doge is not a monarch. He is elected for life by the city's aristocracy. Thus oligarchical republic.

The United Kingdom is organized as a republic with a hereditary figurehead monarch at the top. Canada just technically has her as the head of state and she doesn't actually do anything in either one.

Do the Canadians, Australians etc pay tax to Liz like we do in Britain?

That's not relevant and we're not going to discuss this now.

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

hmmm, in my capacity as op, I will say to everyone, chill

Anywho, I probably won't be on as much till tomorrow afternoon, funky work schedule

[Elepis]

Do the Canadians, Australians etc pay tax to Liz like we do in Britain?

That's not relevant and we're not going to discuss this now.

It was just a question about tax?

I shall google it

[Liecthenbourg]

That's not relevant and we're not going to discuss this now.

It was just a question about tax?

I shall google it

I was under the assumption it was going to explode into the Anti-Monarchy and Pro-Monarchy debate that happened in.... Guns, Drums and Steel, or Jon's 1884 RP.
I can't recall which.

[Kryskov]

I'm having trouble with military size and stuff. According to populstat my population is around 3.4 million. I've usually kept to the one percent peacetime level in other RPs, but that would mean a military of 34,000, which seems pretty small for a nation of my size. Should it be more like two or three percent?

[Elepis]

It was just a question about tax?

I shall google it

I was under the assumption it was going to explode into the Anti-Monarchy and Pro-Monarchy debate that happened in.... Guns, Drums and Steel, or Jon's 1884 RP.
I can't recall which.

ah, I see now.

For that reason, I shan't publish the results of the google

[Elepis]

I'm having trouble with military size and stuff. According to populstat my population is around 3.4 million. I've usually kept to the one percent peacetime level in other RPs, but that would mean a military of 34,000, which seems pretty small for a nation of my size. Should it be more like two or three percent?

If you use conscription I believe the general rule is 2%

[Senkaku]

I was under the assumption it was going to explode into the Anti-Monarchy and Pro-Monarchy debate that happened in.... Guns, Drums and Steel, or Jon's 1884 RP.
I can't recall which.

ah, I see now.

For that reason, I shan't publish the results of the google

The relevance level < -∞

[Lunas Legion]

I don't even think the Queen collects a 'tax' per se; the government collects taxes, and one of the things they do with said taxes is fund the monarchy. Doubt the countries that she's de jure HoS for pay for her, considering her role in them is purely ceremonial.

[Senkaku]

I don't even think the Queen collects a 'tax' per se; the government collects taxes, and one of the things they do with said taxes is fund the monarchy. Doubt the countries that she's de jure HoS for pay for her, considering her role in them is purely ceremonial.

@Queen stuff: all of you can make a thread in General. This is not the place.

[Jaslandia]

WIP

Application

Name: Grand Duchy of Epirus
Symbols:
Claims: Roughly RL Albania (39 on map)
Power: Tertiary power

Government Structure: Absolute monarchy with some elements of parliamentary monarchy. The government is led by the Grand Duke or Duchess, assisted by a cabinet of ministers responsible only to the monarch. While the monarch guides all state affairs, the Senate has some control. After the Epirote Revolution, the Senate was given various financial powers, such as the ability to impose tariffs, to regulate commerce, build and manage infrastructure, and to control the tax rate. The last of those powers is held by both the Senate and monarch, though the monarch must always get approval from the Senate before raising or lowering taxes. In addition, the monarch must get the Senate’s approval before declaring war. However, all other powers (namely defense and foreign affairs) are held solely by the monarch, and he/she has unlimited control in those areas.
Ideology/Policy:
Leaders: Grand Duchess Theodora I; Grand Duke Michael III
Capital City: Dyrrachium

Population: 530,000
Primary Ethnic Group: Greek
Minority Ethnic Groups: Albanian, Italian
Description of Ethnicity:
Language: The official national language and the language of the majority of the people is Greek. However, Albanian and Italian are minority languages (Italian is concentrated in the cities, while Albanian is mostly in the rural countryside), and both languages have a degree of regional recognition and accommodation.

Religion: The official state religion is Greek Orthodox. The Epirote government strongly supports the Orthodox Church in Epirus both politically and financially. However, other religions are not persecuted.

Foreign Relations: Epirus’s closest ally is Venice, and Epirus and Venice have a long friendship, dating back centuries. While Epirus has not been a protectorate of Venice since the Epirote Revolution of 1789, the two nations are still extremely close, to the point that you wouldn’t be entirely wrong to say Epirus is still a Venetian protectorate.

Epirus’s relationship with Greece is very tense, mainly over Greek Epirus. Epirus theoretically claims the portion of Epirus that is within the borders of Greece, much to the anger of the Hellenes. The Epirotes see the Greeks as untrustworthy land-stealers, while the Greeks see Epirus as minion of Italian interests that is unworthy to be named after the great kingdom of antiquity.

Similarly, relations with Hungary are tense. This is mainly due to Hungary’s close relationship with Greece.

However, there is one nation the Epirotes utterly despise: the Sultanate of Rum. The Epirotes still remember the Turks overrunning the original Epirote homeland, and the Epirote war against the Ottomans during the 15th century is a point of national pride for Epirus. The people of Epirus wish to see Rum destroyed, even if it means working with unlikely allies.

Epirus has neutral relations with Western powers like France, Britain, and Prussia. While Epirotes still resent Western Europe’s support of Greece during the Greek War of Independence, at the same time, the Western powers are seen as Epirus last hope, and the intervention from one of those Great Powers could save Epirus from falling to the Greeks or the Turks.

Military Information:
Army Size:
Navy Size:

Economic Policy:
Economic Situation:
Infrastructure:
Imports & Exports:
Imports: Manufactured goods, food, textiles
Exports: Ores, metals, vegetables, fruit, olives

Currency: The Epirote Solidus

History: While Epirus was a notable kingdom during classical times, modern Epirus dates to the Fourth Crusade of 1204. After sacking Constantinople, the Crusaders partitioned the Byzantine Empire, with the Despotate of Epirus being one of these new states. Michael I Komnenos Doukas, a cousin to the Byzantine emperors, established his own principality in Epirus, and quickly consolidated his new realm. Under Kommnenos-Doukas dynasty, Epirus was a center of Greek culture, as Constantinople was under the control of the Crusader-run Latin Empire. However, as the Empire of Nicaea rose to prominence, culminating in the capture of Constantinople and the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire, Epirus aligned itself with Nicaea, to the point that Epirus was practically a Nicene puppet.

However, as Byzantine power declined, Epirus turned to the Italian states for support, and in the 14th century, the Epirote royal family married into multiple Italian noble houses. This culminated in 1318, when upon the death of Despot Thomas I (most likely by assassination), his cousin Nicholas Orisini successfully claimed the throne of Epirus. The Orisini ruled until 1402, when the Byzantines regained control of Epirus. However, Byzantine power was rapidly fading, and Epirus became independent again in 1411, under another Italian noble house (the House of Tocco).

In 1453, Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks. Despot Leonardo III was quick to respond, and helped form the League of Thessalonica to push back the Turks. Working with the Morean League, Venice, and various Balkan states, Epirus defeated the Turks in battle, and drove them out of Constantinople. Shortly afterwards, the League broke down and was dissolved.

With the League having been short-lived, the Ottomans continued their advance, and by 1524, all of Greece besides Epirus had fallen to the Ottomans. The Venetians, desperate to maintain a Christian bastion in Greece, rush to defend Epirus. Sadly, the Venetian aid arrives too late; by the time a fleet of soldiers and ships arrived, much of the Epirote state was in disarray, with the army in full-retreat, and most of the Tocco family captured by the Turks. However, Venice was obstinate, and helped organize a withdrawal from all Epirote lands south of Corfu, with a new state being established in the north (around RL Albania). The Italian house of Barbarigo was made ruler of this new nation, and the Grand Duchy of Epirus was born.

Establishing the Epirote capital at Tirana, the first Grand Duke Nicolò Barbarigo set to work establishing his new state, building a new government, and subduing the native Albanian population. Epirus enjoyed a long period of prosperity, being protected militarily by Venice, while Epirus’s position on the Adriatic and Ionian seas made it a hub of trade. Even as Venice declined during the 17th and 18th centuries, Epirus stuck by its Italian protector, and continued to be a commercial center.

The French Revolution of 1789 interrupted this pattern of peace. With an Italian noble class having ruled over a majority Greek and Albanian country for centuries, resentment built up among the people. The news of the revolt by Parisian citizens inspired the Greeks and Albanians, who started their own revolt in 1790. The Venetian leadership, seeing Epirus as a valuable protectorate that could not be lost, panicked. The Venetian military response was ineffective, and the Greco-Albanian rebels won victory after victory.

Finally, in 1792 the Venetians realized they needed a different approach. Venice decided their best hope was to offer a new candidate for the throne, and hope the people would accept their new monarch. Soon, the Republic of Venice discovered Anna Doukaina, a noblewoman living in Durazzo who claimed to be descendant of a Byzantine imperial dynasty. The Venetians put their support behind Anna, and disowned the Barbarigo dynasty. With a new dynasty for the people to rally around, the pro-Venetian forces began to gain victories, and by 1795, the country was under the complete control of the Doukas dynasty for the first time in 500 years.

Seeking to prevent further discontent, Anna quickly set to work reforming the government. The practice of giving Italians preference in the civil service was ended, Anna cracked down on corruption, and Greek replaced Venetian Italian as the court language. Anna also sought to inspire national pride, adopting regalia styled on that of Byzantine empresses, moving the capital of Epirus to the ancient city (and Anna's hometown) of Durazzo (which subsequently reverted to its Roman name of Dyrrachium), and renaming many government posts to their Byzantine or Roman equivalent. Finally, Anna introduced a weak parliament to placate the people, appropriately called the Senate. However, despite all of her efforts, Anna failed to create a unified Epirote national identity, something that still plagues the Grand Duchy to this day,

In 1827, Anna died, and as she had no surviving issue, her younger brother Nikephoros II inherited the throne. Nikephoros patronized the arts, and his reign saw a sort of renaissance in Greek culture. Sadly, Nikephoros was already elderly and sickly when he came to the throne, and he died of pneumonia in 1833. Nikephoros was succeeded by his granddaughter, Theodora. Upon coming to the throne, Theodora declared her husband Michael as co-ruler, though Theodora is clearly the senior partner. Under Theodora and Michael, patronage of Greek culture has continued, and the royal court is a vibrant and extravagant affair. Still, with the increasingly bellicose rhetoric of the Greeks, Theodora and Michael may soon have to shift their attention to military matters. But, no matter what happens, Epirus shall be determined to retain its sovereignty, and the Epirote spirit will remain strong

Miscellaneous:
RP Example: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=353341#p25977185
429

The Ottomans never came along, their place was taken by Rum

I was under the impression Rum and the Ottomans were the same thing. I'll change my app accordingly.

[Elepis]

The Ottomans never came along, their place was taken by Rum

I was under the impression Rum and the Ottomans were the same thing. I'll change my app accordingly.

nyet, they were different

[Lunas Legion]

I don't even think the Queen collects a 'tax' per se; the government collects taxes, and one of the things they do with said taxes is fund the monarchy. Doubt the countries that she's de jure HoS for pay for her, considering her role in them is purely ceremonial.

@Queen stuff: all of you can make a thread in General. This is not the place.

NSG is literal internet cancer tho. I'll stop anyways though, because it isn't really worth debating.

Still trying and failing to think of a nation though.

[Senkaku]

@Queen stuff: all of you can make a thread in General. This is not the place.

NSG is literal internet cancer tho. I'll stop anyways though, because it isn't really worth debating.

Still trying and failing to think of a nation though.

Calt dropped Japan.

[Lunas Legion]

NSG is literal internet cancer tho. I'll stop anyways though, because it isn't really worth debating.

Still trying and failing to think of a nation though.

Calt dropped Japan.

You want me to be Japan.

Facing off against that China.

Lul fuk no.