1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Lenyo]

The Aztecs had clean streets before modern urbanization. That's way harder to achieve when your cities' populations are rapidly doubling. Expect slums, shantytowns, tenements, and all the disease that comes with that.

I agree with you that the Azteks were surprisingly clean. What I'm reminding you is that industrialization was anything but clean. If you want to be stuck in the 16th century with a tiny population, that's fine. But if you want the overcrowding and pollution and metropolises and firearms from the 19th century, then you better sign up for a high death rate.

Now if you RP the advancement of medical science, that would be really cool. But don't write a guidance saying you have systematized the scientific method medically while Europe thinks all diseases float in miasmas.

[Novacom]

The Aztecs had clean streets before modern urbanization. That's way harder to achieve when your cities' populations are rapidly doubling. Expect slums, shantytowns, tenements, and all the disease that comes with that.

I agree with you that the Azteks were surprisingly clean. What I'm reminding you is that industrialization was anything but clean. If you want to be stuck in the 16th century with a tiny population, that's fine. But if you want the overcrowding and pollution and metropolises and firearms from the 19th century, then you better sign up for a high death rate.

Now if you RP the advancement of medical science, that would be really cool. But don't write a guidance saying you have systematized the scientific method medically while Europe thinks all diseases float in miasmas.

Not arguing that I wouldn't have a death rate, what I am saying is it wouldn't be AS high as some other nations, I do accept that industrialization lowered standards, however lowering a high standard somewhat would still leave a higher standard than other places. Especially if efforts were made to preserve that standard.

[Eurasian Hegemony]

Right. As long as you can get the entire European hit squad over there, this isn't even a contest for you in this area. It really goes down to who can take down more pirates... which I hope will end up being an agreement with christendom than outright scramble XDDD

Well, of everything goes okay in Alexandria, I will have the pirates in the Neo-Akkadian Empire all for myself.

Trace you might have to compromise with Israel and let him get a couple of southern pieces in syria or lebanon. But thats between you two, I am just super happy you and I are agreeing on something for once!

[Tracian Empire]

Well, of everything goes okay in Alexandria, I will have the pirates in the Neo-Akkadian Empire all for myself.

Trace you might have to compromise with Israel and let him get a couple of southern pieces in syria or lebanon. But thats between you two, I am just super happy you and I are agreeing on something for once!

Yeah, just let me convince him.

Israel! My friend!

*Roman soldiers carrying glorious flamethrowers surround him*

Syria is mine, right?

[Lenyo]

OK Novacom, despite all that arguing, we're going to have awesome diplomatic relations. Tonight I'll write an ambassador going to your capital, which I assume will be very pretty. ^^

Actually, one last thing. Louis Pasteur is my hero. All his discoveries will be made in France on RL dates. Among other things, that means he confirms the germ theory of disease in the late 19th century. I'm gonna have so much fun with the French Academy of Sciences and the Pasteur Institute.

[Novacom]

OK Novacom, despite all that arguing, we're going to have awesome diplomatic relations. Tonight I'll write an ambassador going to your capital, which I assume will be very pretty. ^^

Actually, one last thing. Louis Pasteur is my hero. All his discoveries will be made in France on RL dates. Among other things, that means he confirms the germ theory of disease in the late 19th century. I'm gonna have so much fun with the French Academy of Sciences and the Pasteur Institute.

Indeed Tenochtitlan is beautiful, and I have no intention of hijacking Pasteur, the whole person I was thinking when I originally toyed with that guidance was Florence Nightingale and a follow on from that, I shall however comb through the history books for someone, though I am very much eyeing up Fleming and penicillin, perhaps we could have Pasteur and an Aztek working together furthering their theories, more co-operation after all!

And the arguing is fine as long as we both want the best for the RP and come to an understanding over misunderstandings

[Pacificana Islands]

Well, pay no attention to my Portugal app, Ill look for something else.

[Altito Asmoro]

Well, pay no attention to my Portugal app, Ill look for something else.

I take almost nothing from Portugal.

[Zionatra]

Trace you might have to compromise with Israel and let him get a couple of southern pieces in syria or lebanon. But thats between you two, I am just super happy you and I are agreeing on something for once!

Yeah, just let me convince him.

Israel! My friend!

*Roman soldiers carrying glorious flamethrowers surround him*

Syria is mine, right?

"Undoubtedly good sir,"

*Pats bomb*

"but, lebanon is mine."

[Tracian Empire]

Yeah, just let me convince him.

Israel! My friend!

*Roman soldiers carrying glorious flamethrowers surround him*

Syria is mine, right?

"Undoubtedly good sir,"

*Pats rifle*

"but, lebanon is mine."

Oh? Someone who dares to mess with the glorious Roman Empire?

What if we share? I get everything in Lebanon north from Beirut, and you get everything in Syria south from Damascus?

[Pacificana Islands]

Well, pay no attention to my Portugal app, Ill look for something else.

I take almost nothing from Portugal.

But with a collapsed economy, recent civil war, invasions by two different countries, and Brazil taking all the colonies, I don't see a country lasting very long.

[Tracian Empire]

Yeah, just let me convince him.

Israel! My friend!

*Roman soldiers carrying glorious flamethrowers surround him*

Syria is mine, right?

"Undoubtedly good sir,"

*Pats bomb*

"but, lebanon is mine."

To be more exact, something like this

[Novacom]

I take almost nothing from Portugal.

But with a collapsed economy, recent civil war, invasions by two different countries, and Brazil taking all the colonies, I don't see a country lasting very long.

As an aside although the map looks full there doesn't appear to be much activity by many of the "nations" on the map, unless you count the "flaming"

[Tracian Empire]

But with a collapsed economy, recent civil war, invasions by two different countries, and Brazil taking all the colonies, I don't see a country lasting very long.

As an aside although the map looks full there doesn't appear to be much activity by many of the "nations" on the map, unless you count the "flaming"

Well, I'm waiting for the Westerners to accept the requests of the Glorious Rome in Alexandria.

[Zionatra]

"Undoubtedly good sir,"

*Pats rifle*

"but, lebanon is mine."

Oh? Someone who dares to mess with the glorious Roman Empire?

What if we share? I get everything in Lebanon north from Beirut, and you get everything in Syria south from Damascus?

Oh I love it!

[Zionatra]

"Undoubtedly good sir,"

*Pats bomb*

"but, lebanon is mine."

To be more exact, something like this

Allow me that furthest southern red piece and you got a deal My friend.

Edit: simply because when Oscal fixes my territory I will actually almost be surrounding that piece.

[Tracian Empire]

Oh? Someone who dares to mess with the glorious Roman Empire?

What if we share? I get everything in Lebanon north from Beirut, and you get everything in Syria south from Damascus?

Oh I love it!

Still, don't believe that this will mean that we will have peaceful relations all the time. You're standing between me an my province of Aegyptus as a possible hostile nation.

[Tracian Empire]

To be more exact, something like this

Allow me that furthest southern red piece and you got a deal My friend.

In exchange for that piece, would you allow the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem to how should I say, become the subordinate of the Patriarch of Constantinople?

[Tracian Empire]

I've been thinking about doing a guidance that will affect all the Orthodox Churches in the world, but I have to think about it.

[Altito Asmoro]

Guidance Name : Mobilization Act
Guidance Description : [[What happened?]]
Affected Area :

It is still a draft, but I intend to make the guidance where the African nations, the ones who still independent, and maybe Asian nations, the ability to call every able-bodied men at their nation to defend/invade countries, bolstering the numbers of the military at the cost of giving them obsolete weapons. So numerical superiority at its peak.

[Tracian Empire]

I'm still not sure how to say it, but it will practically make all the Orthodox Churches in the world autonomous under the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, so there will be no autocephalous churches.

[Zionatra]

Allow me that furthest southern red piece and you got a deal My friend.

In exchange for that piece, would you allow the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem to how should I say, become the subordinate of the Patriarch of Constantinople?

Yeah I have no problem with that. Religious freedom is again prized in Israel.
Also I'm not hostile toward anyone really I am defensive though. And sadly for arabia Eastwardly and Southernly expansionist

[Second Helghan Empire]

Just so you know when you read my IC post the singing part might be based on the Final battle scene in Zulu

[Western Imperial Union]

Full Nation Name : Cheng Dynasty of the Chinese Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Chinese Mongolian
Territorial Core : Ming Dynasty China excluding the territory ruled by korea and japan
Territorial Claim : northern Mongolia, S.E asia
Capital City : Nanjing
Population : 90 million

Government Type : [[Monarchy, Republic, etc.]] Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]] Imperialist, Expansionist
Government Focus : [[Tell me a little bit about what is your government’s focus… be it military, economy, culture, legitimacy, etc.]] Culture
Head of State : [[highest-ranking individual in the nation according to rule of law]] Emperor Bai Cheng of the Cheng Dynasty
Head of Government : [[highest-ranking defacto ruler]] """
Government Description :Absolute monarchy made possible as the people are more concerned with the idea of defending their nation's traditions.

Majority/State Religion : [[OPTIONAL]] [[It does not have to be IRL religion]] Taoism
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : [[Capitalism, Mercantilism, Socialism, Communism, etc.]] Socialism
Major Production : Textiles
Economic Description : very powerful due to massive workforce and vast resources

Army Strength : Massive with conscription now the norm in war time
Army Weakness : too many men too train properly and in some poorer provinces too many to arm properly
Naval Strength : strong firepower with much better grade cannons
Naval Weakness : slow and weak to enemy attack at close range
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : expand to mongolia and south east asia
National Issues : being technology to the outlying provinces
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]]
National Ambition/Aspirations : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really a set objective, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]] east asian dominance

History : [[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]]
Picks up in 1849 when anti khanate moves into position.

More and more high ranking advisers and military staff had become chinese and so by 1949 fewer than one in seventeen nobles considered themselves khanate rather than chinese citizens. In 1949 a young ambitious man became head general of the Khan's army and began to sow the seeds of the Khanates transition. This man would later be called Bai Cheng

He eliminated Mongolian presence in the military appointing newer nationalistic Chinese in their place. Soon his army was Chinese not Khanate.

On september 5th began what would be called the september coup. Cheng led a force of 17,000 Chinese troops into the Khan's palace grounds. A short fight took place the Khan's forces were destroyed and the Khan himself captured.

While mist of the army was now chinese the Northern corps were almost exclusively mongolian. Led by the only son of the hostage khan they attacked into the now quickly fortifying chinese territory.

For the next three weeks little fighting occurred until the battle of Nanjing. While the Mongolian forces one the battle by forcing the enemy out of the city they had lost too many troops in doing so. They became surrounded and were forced to surrender.

The Khans were spared in the October Treaty of Nanjing and given governorship of mongolia to them as a vassal state of the new chinese empire.

Even though given a chance the son of the Khan fled to the northern part of the nation and seceded with what became known as the New Golden Horde. The former Khan was killed by his own son and a mongol loyal to Cheng was put in power of Southern mongolia. Soon the young northern Khan had also been killed in the fighting and North Mongolia sued for peace. The treaty of the Horse tribes brought an end to the conflict in December 1850.

By 1852 the Chinese empire has successfully consolidated and retains control of southern Mongolia, Chinese manchuria, China proper, and the eastern Ghobi.

Comparison Points – Political : [[How much national focus is gone into administrating the government, i.e. espionage, royal marriages, counter-intelligence, etc.]] 3
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : [[How much national focus is gone into religious and or cultural aspects, i.e. asking for excommunication, call for crusade, soviet revolution in other nations, etc.]]3
Comparison Points – Economy : [[How much national focus is gone into economic matters, i.e. embargo/blockade efficiency, lasting through war of attrition, simply feeding your people better, etc.]]2
Comparison Points – Military : [[How much national focus is gone into military, i.e. discipline, morale, better tacticians/generals, etc.]] 2
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10

[Second Helghan Empire]

Full Nation Name : Cheng Dynasty of the Chinese Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Chinese Mongolian
Territorial Core : modern core china excluding the himilayas, and areas controlled by korea and japan and brittany plus eastern part of ghobi desert Southern mongolia is a vassal state
Territorial Claim : northern Mongolia, S.E asia
Capital City : Nanjing
Population : 90 million

Government Type : [[Monarchy, Republic, etc.]] Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]] Imperialist, Expansionist
Government Focus : [[Tell me a little bit about what is your government’s focus… be it military, economy, culture, legitimacy, etc.]] Culture
Head of State : [[highest-ranking individual in the nation according to rule of law]] Emperor Bai Cheng of the Cheng Dynasty
Head of Government : [[highest-ranking defacto ruler]] """
Government Description :Absolute monarchy made possible as the people are more concerned with the idea of defending their nation's traditions.

Majority/State Religion : [[OPTIONAL]] [[It does not have to be IRL religion]] Taoism
Religious Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

Economic Ideologies : [[Capitalism, Mercantilism, Socialism, Communism, etc.]] Socialism
Major Production : Textiles
Economic Description : very powerful due to massive workforce and vast resources

Army Strength : Massive with conscription now the norm in war time
Army Weakness : too many men too train properly and in some poorer provinces too many to arm properly
Naval Strength : strong firepower with much better grade cannons
Naval Weakness : slow and weak to enemy attack at close range
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : expand to mongolia and south east asia
National Issues : being technology to the outlying provinces
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Are there any Mother Teresas or Moses that we need to know about?]]
National Ambition/Aspirations : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Not really a set objective, but rather the big picture that your nation is drawing towards]] east asian dominance

History : [[Can be in paragraph or bulletpoint timeline.]]
Picks up in 1849 when anti khanate moves into position.

More and more high ranking advisers and military staff had become chinese and so by 1949 fewer than one in seventeen nobles considered themselves khanate rather than chinese citizens. In 1949 a young ambitious man became head general of the Khan's army and began to sow the seeds of the Khanates transition. This man would later be called Bai Cheng

He eliminated Mongolian presence in the military appointing newer nationalistic Chinese in their place. Soon his army was Chinese not Khanate.

On september 5th began what would be called the september coup. Cheng led a force of 17,000 Chinese troops into the Khan's palace grounds. A short fight took place the Khan's forces were destroyed and the Khan himself captured.

While mist of the army was now chinese the Northern corps were almost exclusively mongolian. Led by the only son of the hostage khan they attacked into the now quickly fortifying chinese territory.

For the next three weeks little fighting occurred until the battle of Nanjing. While the Mongolian forces one the battle by forcing the enemy out of the city they had lost too many troops in doing so. They became surrounded and were forced to surrender.

The Khans were spared in the October Treaty of Nanjing and given governorship of mongolia to them as a vassal state of the new chinese empire.

Even though given a chance the son of the Khan fled to the northern part of the nation and seceded with what became known as the New Golden Horde. The former Khan was killed by his own son and a mongol loyal to Cheng was put in power of Southern mongolia. Soon the young northern Khan had also been killed in the fighting and North Mongolia sued for peace. The treaty of the Horse tribes brought an end to the conflict in December 1850.

By 1852 the Chinese empire has successfully consolidated and retains control of southern Mongolia, Chinese manchuria, China proper, and the eastern Ghobi.

Comparison Points – Political : [[How much national focus is gone into administrating the government, i.e. espionage, royal marriages, counter-intelligence, etc.]] 3
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : [[How much national focus is gone into religious and or cultural aspects, i.e. asking for excommunication, call for crusade, soviet revolution in other nations, etc.]]3
Comparison Points – Economy : [[How much national focus is gone into economic matters, i.e. embargo/blockade efficiency, lasting through war of attrition, simply feeding your people better, etc.]]2
Comparison Points – Military : [[How much national focus is gone into military, i.e. discipline, morale, better tacticians/generals, etc.]] 2
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10

I like It, and so you have my acceptance, as long as you know it would be Cheng Bai not Bai cheng as family names are first in china