1850 : Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC][CLOSED]

[Oscalantine]

Did France still have it's own revolution? Because I plan on having a member of the House of Orleans be Monarch if they where kicked from France like they were IRL.

I have... no idea. He simply mentioned revolution.

If I had a guess, probably revolution of some sort happened. But assume IRL happened until it goes wrong. And then... collaborate and have fun? ^^;;;

[The Union of Courland]

Did France still have it's own revolution? Because I plan on having a member of the House of Orleans be Monarch if they where kicked from France like they were IRL.

I have... no idea. He simply mentioned revolution.

If I had a guess, probably revolution of some sort happened. But assume IRL happened until it goes wrong. And then... collaborate and have fun? ^^;;;

Mkay. The male heir to the House is 10 years old right now(1850), so the female would be Queen until the male becomes of age, right? Before you ask, the former holder of the throne died in 1842.

[Oscalantine]

I have... no idea. He simply mentioned revolution.

If I had a guess, probably revolution of some sort happened. But assume IRL happened until it goes wrong. And then... collaborate and have fun? ^^;;;

Mkay. The male heir to the House is 10 years old right now(1850), so the female would be Queen until the male becomes of age, right? Before you ask, the former holder of the throne died in 1842.

Your history, your call.

If Orleans is REALLY a big deal for you, you can spend your Guidance to keep that particular history going. If that's the case, then France would need to play with that particular history for his own app.

[Claven]

Just realized this was there XD. Gonna try something, tell me if its too much

Guidance Name : The Achaemenid Collapse

Guidance Description : After the death of Darius I, the throne of Persia was contested between Xerxes and his half-brother Artobarzanes, the eldest son. The two brothers competed for influence amongst the satraps, and each created his own sphere of influence. The revolts in Egypt and Babylon grew, and the two brothers rushed to suppress them. In Babylon, Xerxes actions outraged the natives and the Persians were kicked out of the city. Achaemenes, a brother of Xerxes was sent to crush the revolt in Egypt, but he later declared the independence of Egypt by making himself Pharaoh and adopting Ancient Egyptian customs. Artobarzanes, taking the opportunity, declared himself King of Babylon and led her armies to victory over a few Persian armies. Unrest erupted over the empire and soon the Hebrews, Phoenicians, and Assyrians too declared their independence. Xerxes and his armies were unable to prevent said things from occurring and he had to be content with Persia, Media and Elam.

(I'll try to add a bit more later, but tell me if its already too much. I know that this would have a major effect on Greece and Western Civilization, probably removing Alexander from the picture completelt)

Affected Area : Middle East, Central Asia, Egypt, and Greece (Greece because Xerxe's invasion of Greece wouldnt have happened)

[Claven]

OMG, forgot completely about Anatolia. I'll edit that all tomorrow

[Oscalantine]

Just realized this was there XD. Gonna try something, tell me if its too much

Guidance Name : The Achaemenid Collapse

Guidance Description : After the death of Darius I, the throne of Persia was contested between Xerxes and his half-brother Artobarzanes, the eldest son. The two brothers competed for influence amongst the satraps, and each created his own sphere of influence. The revolts in Egypt and Babylon grew, and the two brothers rushed to suppress them. In Babylon, Xerxes actions outraged the natives and the Persians were kicked out of the city. Achaemenes, a brother of Xerxes was sent to crush the revolt in Egypt, but he later declared the independence of Egypt by making himself Pharaoh and adopting Ancient Egyptian customs. Artobarzanes, taking the opportunity, declared himself King of Babylon and led her armies to victory over a few Persian armies. Unrest erupted over the empire and soon the Hebrews, Phoenicians, and Assyrians too declared their independence. Xerxes and his armies were unable to prevent said things from occurring and he had to be content with Persia, Media and Elam.

(I'll try to add a bit more later, but tell me if its already too much. I know that this would have a major effect on Greece and Western Civilization, probably removing Alexander from the picture completelt)

Affected Area : Middle East, Central Asia, Egypt, and Greece (Greece because Xerxe's invasion of Greece wouldnt have happened)

When you mentioned Greece my heart sank because I thought you said that Persia conquered Greece XDDD

Hmmm... Alexander not being there is a big issue. The main problem is that I understand that there was a feud, but I cannot tell what happened as a result of it.

Could you explain the aftermath and what happened a bit more clearly? And... since you mentioned it, I do understand that Alexander is a big thing. Could it somehow get incorporated and still make your story alright? If need be, I will allow second guidance just for the sake of making Alexander happen and still keeping what you want, since it is such a global phenomenon that affect a lot of histories.

[Tracian Empire]

So, I couldn't find a good map but:

Could I reserve what's the Roman Empire and the Bulgarian Khanate here? Without the territories in Italy of course. I was thinking about a Byzantine Empire in which Heraclius never switched to the Greek language, and with no Fourth Crusade that would have damaged the empire. And probably some other small changes. So basically, a Latin Byzantine Empire over there.

[Norwegian Vinland]

(Image)

Sure. Reserved ^^

Although... Venetian realm and Croatia will need to be separated. I know I am playing favorites, but Venetian lands are too wealthy for you to gobble up with Austria ^^;;; Hopefully you are alright with that.

Save me The Sino Union! China, Korea, and Japan!

As... a Korean with too much interest in my country's history... I cannot see that working. Just cannot.

Mind you... you CAN... if you go ALL the way back to first Han Dynasty and work your way up from Old Joeson period... ... ... but then again...
Yeah. If you don't know what Old Joeson period is, then I cannot help you. I know enough about my nation and Chinese and Japanese history to know that it takes a REAL special app to accomplish this. Show me the history section at the very least, and I'll approve the reserve.

Plus, the claim as China itself is a MASSIVE reserve. For the sake of fairness, I cannot allow beyond mainland China unless you can convince me through your app that you REALLY have a good history behind your claims.

Can I reserve Brittany, with Puerto Rico, Ifni, and the Liberian Coast as colonies? Obviously, the colonies won't be called what they are. Liberia would be New Brittany, Ifni was already named If I by the Moroccans, and I'll work on Rico's name.

Awesome. I'll keep that in mind for reserve.


Reserve for Mainland France, Corsica, Algeria, Guiana, Senegal, Vietnam, Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Polynesia came in~!!

I can give up Venice, but can I keep Croatia?
Plz

[Claven]

When you mentioned Greece my heart sank because I thought you said that Persia conquered Greece XDDD

Hmmm... Alexander not being there is a big issue. The main problem is that I understand that there was a feud, but I cannot tell what happened as a result of it.

Could you explain the aftermath and what happened a bit more clearly? And... since you mentioned it, I do understand that Alexander is a big thing. Could it somehow get incorporated and still make your story alright? If need be, I will allow second guidance just for the sake of making Alexander happen and still keeping what you want, since it is such a global phenomenon that affect a lot of histories.

I suppose, yeah. Hmm, maybe something along the lines of the Seleucids collapsing and the Parthians and Sassanids never gaining too much ground in Mesopotamia. But I'm not too good about that point in time. I'll have to work on that

[Oscalantine]

I can give up Venice, but can I keep Croatia?
Plz

Actually, gave you Croatia on accident XDDD. So I guess you can keep them.

[Mandicoria]

Full Nation Name : The Scandinavian Empire (Established from the Swedish Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Swedish (With Norwegian, Danish, and Finnish being the other main cultures)
Territorial Core : Sweden, Norway, Copenhagen, Finland, Estonia, and Latvia. Also, colonies in Haiti (lol fite me France), Greenland, Bermuda, and the Azores
Territorial Claim : The rest of Denmark, Western Africa, and Further into Northern Russia
Capital City : Stockholm
Population : 2.02 million And around 160 Thousand in the colonies. (Primarily Haiti.)

Government Type : Constitutional Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : Imperialist
Government Focus : The national economy is the primary focus.
Head of State : Head of Parliament, Cristoph Anderberg
Head of Government : The National Parliament
Government Description : The Scandinavian Government closely followed the British model of a constitutional Monarchy where a parliament is the head of government. The Parliament currently has a primarily conservative and reactionary (67%) majority.

Majority/State Religion : No state religion
Religious Description : No state religion

Economic Ideologies : The main ideology is Capitalism, but government investment in national infrastructure is allowed.
Major Production : Boats, Lumber, Iron, and Furniture
Economic Description : The national economy, and all industry is very dependent on foreign industry and resources from other nations. Hence the government's imperialist policies, and extremely low tariffs.

Army Strength: It is extremely modernized, has decent leadership, and very well supplied.
Army Weakness : It's very small, its soldiers are not experienced (Last engagement was in the Napoleonic wars), and only present in Scandinavia proper. (Only 65 Thousand.)
Naval Strength : Like the army, it is modern, and is very well supplied.
Naval Weakness : It's leadership is garbage, extremely lacking in experience, and is very spread out.
Further Military Description : The Scandinavian Military although very modernized and having great supply numbers and strategies; is very challenged when it comes to location, lack of experience, and in the navy's case poor leadership. The entire army is located in Scandinavia proper, with the colonies just being defenseless (Well, militias are allowed in the colonies)

National Goals : Keep the Scandinavian economy and industry strong, defend the territorial possessions, and expand further in colonial power.
National Issues : The extreme reliance on foreign industry and resources,
National Figures of Interest: -none-
National Ambition/Aspirations : Basically form a huge and stable empire across the planet. Like everyone else.

History : (Going on from the history of the Swedish Empire, but changing around it's ending to spare my sanity :'D)
The Great Northern War was a great failure on Russia, allowing the Swedish Empires to keep it's territory (And take back others lost). Right after, thanks to the Germanic states rebelling and outright fighting Swedish territorial claims, the Swedish Empire had to relinquish control of a few North German states. Also, thanks to multiple wars (And promises to German allies), Denmark was split between the Germans and Swedes (Most of Denmark going to the Germans, and Copenhagen along with the colonies going to Sweden). After the Napoleonic wars, Sweden began attempts to industrialize, losing large amounts of money to failed investments, but eventually succeeding in 1839. Around 1847 the nation reorganized into the Scandinavian Empire, allowing the various cultures within the empire to be represented. (Which in turn, allowed the Empire to be extremely stable) With the reorganization, also came the weakening of the royal family, which was actually welcomed by the people (Primarily within the colonies.).

The Liberal Spring of 1846 however caused great amounts of instability, and almost lead to a nationwide rebellion (Especially in areas like Copenhagen and Finland). The Liberal Spring was a period when Liberal arts and views were finally reaching Sweden from the fallen French Empire, and it's various puppets. During the Liberal Spring, large demonstrations were held in major cities like Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Riga, and Helsinki; Each one calling for the government to become a full-fledged democracy. (Something many opposed) Instead, it just caused the conservative and reactionary majority to become severely weakened (Losing 33% of Parliament was deemed very unacceptable.), and was the main reason Sweden was reorganized into the Scandinavian Empire (And the Constitutional monarchy being established of course). However, despite the Liberal Spring threatening national stability, national unrest has been staying at a steady low point ever since the reorganization of the nation. Thanks to the great national stability, the Scandinavian economy has been able to become heavily developed and industrialized. Allowing it to become one of the big industrial powers. (Although, as said, very reliant of foreign industry)
(If anything else needs to be added, IT SHALL BE DONE.)

Comparison Points – Political : 2
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2
Comparison Points – Economy : 3
Comparison Points – Military : 3
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10

[Oscalantine]

So, I couldn't find a good map but:

(Image)

Could I reserve what's the Roman Empire and the Bulgarian Khanate here? Without the territories in Italy of course. I was thinking about a Byzantine Empire in which Heraclius never switched to the Greek language, and with no Fourth Crusade that would have damaged the empire. And probably some other small changes. So basically, a Latin Byzantine Empire over there.

I think that you have a bit of issue with Bulgarian Khanate with other app's reserves in the area. However, your wishes for the Anatolia and Greek area is noted and reserved... without Italy, of course ^^

Why is everyone dodging Italy like a plague is beyond me, though XDDD

[Benuty]

I do wonder how the Commonwealth has interacted with the rest of Europe since it seems the Enlightenment hasn't affected them as much?

[Tracian Empire]

So, I couldn't find a good map but:

(Image)

Could I reserve what's the Roman Empire and the Bulgarian Khanate here? Without the territories in Italy of course. I was thinking about a Byzantine Empire in which Heraclius never switched to the Greek language, and with no Fourth Crusade that would have damaged the empire. And probably some other small changes. So basically, a Latin Byzantine Empire over there.

I think that you have a bit of issue with Bulgarian Khanate with other app's reserves in the area. However, your wishes for the Anatolia and Greek area is noted and reserved... without Italy, of course ^^

Why is everyone dodging Italy like a plague is beyond me, though XDDD

Could it include this little part I marked over here? I just don't want to have another player like a thorn in my so deep in Greece.

I am avoiding Italy because it's cursed.

[Benuty]

Also did France not colonize Louisiana?

[Mandicoria]

Oh, and to go with my Territorial claims, oughta do a guidance.

Guidance Name : Swedish Dominance is Saved!
Guidance Description : Basically, Russia lost pretty badly the the Swedish during the Great Northern War. Causing the Baltic States (Latvia and Estonia, no Lithuania :c) and Finland to be under Swedish control.
Affected Area : Scandinavia, Russia, Latvia, and Estonia

[Oscalantine]

-snip-

Mandi, you scared the living crap out of me with such a ridiculously fast app XDDD.

Hmmm... thus far, nothing beyond good. I would like for your military description to be a bit more developed, though... and explain the Liberal Spring a bit more.

BUT... knowing your style, I'll just settle for more military description. I would like for weaknesses, at the very least, to be a bit more developed and explained ^^

[Oscalantine]

Could it include this little part I marked over here? I just don't want to have another player like a thorn in my so deep in Greece.

I am avoiding Italy because it's cursed.

XDDD sure. And I guess Italy belongs to the Pope until further notice XDDD

Also did France not colonize Louisiana?

He did not say... hmmm... really dunno.

[Mandicoria]

-snip-

Mandi, you scared the living crap out of me with such a ridiculously fast app XDDD.

Hmmm... thus far, nothing beyond good. I would like for your military description to be a bit more developed, though... and explain the Liberal Spring a bit more.

BUT... knowing your style, I'll just settle for more military description. I would like for weaknesses, at the very least, to be a bit more developed and explained ^^

It shall be done. Was kind of in a rush, so I probably left a lot of stuff out. XD

[Benuty]

-snip-

Mandi, you scared the living crap out of me with such a ridiculously fast app XDDD.

Hmmm... thus far, nothing beyond good. I would like for your military description to be a bit more developed, though... and explain the Liberal Spring a bit more.

BUT... knowing your style, I'll just settle for more military description. I would like for weaknesses, at the very least, to be a bit more developed and explained ^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

Possibly a take on the era known as the Springtime of Nations, and an interesting one at that.

[Oscalantine]

Oh, and to go with my Territorial claims, oughta do a guidance.

Guidance Name : Swedish Dominance is Saved!
Guidance Description : Basically, Russia lost pretty badly the the Swedish during the Great Northern War. Causing the Baltic States (Latvia and Estonia, no Lithuania :c) and Finland to be under Swedish control.
Affected Area : Scandinavia, Russia, Latvia, and Estonia

Technically... you don't need that for guidance. It is your Point of Divergence that is minor enough that whoever is going to be Ruskies has to just suck it up and not have Finland ^^

... but I'll keep a note of it nonetheless, unless you can find better use for the Guidance now that you know you don't need it for your app.

[Oscalantine]

Mandi, you scared the living crap out of me with such a ridiculously fast app XDDD.

Hmmm... thus far, nothing beyond good. I would like for your military description to be a bit more developed, though... and explain the Liberal Spring a bit more.

BUT... knowing your style, I'll just settle for more military description. I would like for weaknesses, at the very least, to be a bit more developed and explained ^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

Possibly a take on the era known as the Springtime of Nations, and an interesting one at that.

That helps A TON. thanks for the reference!!

Now... going to afk for a bit and do my weekly Bible Read like a good Christian that I ought to be.

Btw, if I was to want to say... Song Dynasty's scientific enhancement was preserved and enhanced upon by Ming (since Yuan technically already did that). What kind of things do I need to change? History be damned, I want Far East nations to have somewhat even playing field with the Europeans.

[The Union of Courland]

Full Nation Name : Second Kingdom of Brittany
Majority/Official Culture : Breton, subgroup of Celtic Culture
Territorial Core : Historical Brittany, Ynys Cyfoetheg(Puerto Rico), New Brittany(Liberian Coast), and the Moroccan city of Ifni.
Territorial Claim : RL Liberia
Capital City : Brest, Province of Finistére, Northeast Brittany
Population : Can't find a reliable resources, so I'm going with around 1,500,000 on the mainland, and 75,000 in all the colonies.

Government Type : Constitutional Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : Colonial
Government Focus : Continue to build up economy, get/expand colonies.
Head of State : Queen Helene of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Head of Government : Queen Helene of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
Government Description : Constitutional Monarchy, the Queen and Parliament both have joint power over the government. The Constitution establishes a Free Market Economy an allows the people to vote for Parliament members, 5 from each province, with there being 5 provinces in total. The colonies send 1 representative each.

Majority/State Religion : Roman Catholic
Religious Description : Same as RL

Economic Ideologies : Capitalist Free Market Economy
Major Production : Goods from colonies, such as Cash Crops from Ynys Cyfoetheg and New Brittany, and Silk/Lace from Brittany itself.
Economic Description : The economy is currently booming, trade with other nations fueled by products from the colonies is the backbone of the economy.

Army Strength : 60,000 strong, the Army is not as funded as the Navy. Still could kick a small African Army because of its technological superiority. 50,000 troops are stationed on the mainland, 1,000 stationed in Ifni, 2,000 stationed on Ynys Cyfoetheg, and 7,000 stationed in New Brittany.
Army Weakness : Less focus than on the Navy, only 50,000 troops stationed on the mainland.
Naval Strength : 3,000 people, consists of 25 Frigates, 10 Man-of-Wars, and two experimental Ironclads. Heavily funded.
Naval Weakness : The fleet is very slow, as all ships have to move at once.
Further Military Description : Not as advanced, but most focus in the ground troops is on artillery, with two regiments (each regiment is 5,000 on the mainland) dedicated to cannons. This is because the thought process is that the cannons will obliterate most of an invading force, and the cavalry will mop up the stragglers. The cavalry itself has 3 Regiments, and the other 5 mainland regiments are foot soldiers. Ifni has all foot soldiers, Ynys Cyfoetheg has 1,000 of each, and New Brittany has 2,000 Cavalry, 1,000 artillery, and 5,000 foot soldiers.

National Goals : Expand current colonies, snuggle up with big brother France or bigger brother UK, continue to build upon current economy.
National Issues : People in the colonies are demanding more representation, and are threatening to rebel if they don't have as much representation as the provinces.
National Figures of Interest : Not really.
National Ambition/Aspirations : The people don't have one fixed goal, other than resisting annexation.

History : IRL, the French invaded and annexed Brittany. Instead, the French were to worried about problems elsewhere that they never invaded Brittany. Brittany joined Portugal in being one of the first countries to send a merchant fleet around the Cape, 20 or so gears after the Portuguese did so. The set up a colony in what is now called Liberia, and they named it New Brittany once it grew bigger. They sent a fleet across the Atlantic along with most of Europe during the "Scramble for North America", managing to nab RL Puerto Rico during the chaos, naming the island Ynys Cyfoetheg, or Rich Island in Britton. Afterwords, with the French threat growing bigger, they decided to stop their expansion and focus on improving the Army. After the Duke made some bad decisions, the people overthrew the Grand Duchy and installed a King. When the ideas of liberalism spread from the Renaissance, the people revolted once again, and what was called the Reign of Terror began in Brittany. The people executed many royals, and only after several years was the current constitution established, restoring the monarchy, but with elements of democracy. The only problems now are that the colonies are demanding more representation in the government, and they have threatened to rebel if their demands are not answered.

Comparison Points – Political : 3
Comparison Points – Cultural/Religious : 2
Comparison Points – Economy : 3
Comparison Points – Military : 2
Total Comparison Points used (10 Points MAX) : 10/10

Done.

Is done

[Benuty]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1848

Possibly a take on the era known as the Springtime of Nations, and an interesting one at that.

That helps A TON. thanks for the reference!!

Now... going to afk for a bit and do my weekly Bible Read like a good Christian that I ought to be.

Btw, if I was to want to say... Song Dynasty's scientific enhancement was preserved and enhanced upon by Ming (since Yuan technically already did that). What kind of things do I need to change? History be damned, I want Far East nations to have somewhat even playing field with the Europeans.

I wonder what if California has been exposed to Chinese traders, and settlers instead of the Spanish since they don't exist?

[Mandicoria]

Oh, and to go with my Territorial claims, oughta do a guidance.

Guidance Name : Swedish Dominance is Saved!
Guidance Description : Basically, Russia lost pretty badly the the Swedish during the Great Northern War. Causing the Baltic States (Latvia and Estonia, no Lithuania :c) and Finland to be under Swedish control.
Affected Area : Scandinavia, Russia, Latvia, and Estonia

Technically... you don't need that for guidance. It is your Point of Divergence that is minor enough that whoever is going to be Ruskies has to just suck it up and not have Finland ^^

... but I'll keep a note of it nonetheless, unless you can find better use for the Guidance now that you know you don't need it for your app.

Well, just in case someone takes Russia. I want a rival to have threat exchanegs with.