A World Without America II [Invite Only, See Within / OOC ]

[Ruridova]

For posterity, I'm going to note that I've picked smaller nations to avoid what happened with me in AWWA1 where my nations got legitimately dickwanky. I'm not being forced to.

And what Vak did with the African tribes was definitely dubious from any angle of attack. However, Uni, I do feel that Germany, Brazil, and Egypt are falling into that trap that Germany, Russia, and the CSA fell into last RP.

[Bojikami]

I did tell you that China would be willing to elevating Korea to normal tributary status in the 1800s. You can still be an empire and be under the tributary system (example: Empire of Dai Viet)

I know. That said, 1848 will be when Korea ends the tradition of paying tributes to Beijing and assert itself as a sovereign and independent country.

Korea would already be an independent country. China would simply be protecting it from those wishing to do it harm (Europeans, Japan, etc.) Plus, with a nation so near suddenly acting in rebellion like this, China might prompt a military intervention of its own...

[Luziyca]

I know. That said, 1848 will be when Korea ends the tradition of paying tributes to Beijing and assert itself as a sovereign and independent country.

Korea would already be an independent country. China would simply be protecting it from those wishing to do it harm (Europeans, Japan, etc.) Plus, with a nation so near suddenly acting in rebellion like this, China might prompt a military intervention of its own...

Oh, okay then.

[United Marxist Nations]

For all formality, I hereby accept Vak's resignation and hereby cast him out.

That being said, is anybody overly opposed to be using OP power to invoke a Capellite vs. Bourbonnaise civil war in Spain? I figure it's a good plot element to throw in now that Vak left. France is still agitating for Bourbon restoration, and Capello can't have complete support from his nobility.

I'd say give a "grace period" to see if someone else (like someone new or with only smaller nations) applies for it. Who knows, they might like it more if they get the Bourbons, since that would give them a nice alliance.

[Unicario]

For all formality, I hereby accept Vak's resignation and hereby cast him out.

That being said, is anybody overly opposed to be using OP power to invoke a Capellite vs. Bourbonnaise civil war in Spain? I figure it's a good plot element to throw in now that Vak left. France is still agitating for Bourbon restoration, and Capello can't have complete support from his nobility.

I'd say give a "grace period" to see if someone else (like someone new or with only smaller nations) applies for it. Who knows, they might like it more if they get the Bourbons, since that would give them a nice alliance.

Absolutely. I'll wait.

For posterity, I'm going to note that I've picked smaller nations to avoid what happened with me in AWWA1 where my nations got legitimately dickwanky. I'm not being forced to.

And what Vak did with the African tribes was definitely dubious from any angle of attack. However, Uni, I do feel that Germany, Brazil, and Egypt are falling into that trap that Germany, Russia, and the CSA fell into last RP.

Elaborate some, please, about that. I'm curious as to what you mean.

[Ruridova]

I'd say give a "grace period" to see if someone else (like someone new or with only smaller nations) applies for it. Who knows, they might like it more if they get the Bourbons, since that would give them a nice alliance.

Absolutely. I'll wait.

For posterity, I'm going to note that I've picked smaller nations to avoid what happened with me in AWWA1 where my nations got legitimately dickwanky. I'm not being forced to.

And what Vak did with the African tribes was definitely dubious from any angle of attack. However, Uni, I do feel that Germany, Brazil, and Egypt are falling into that trap that Germany, Russia, and the CSA fell into last RP.

Elaborate some, please, about that. I'm curious as to what you mean.

Are you serious or no? The emoticon means I want to make sure before I respond.

[Unicario]

Absolutely. I'll wait.



Elaborate some, please, about that. I'm curious as to what you mean.

Are you serious or no? The emoticon means I want to make sure before I respond.

I'm legitimately curious what you mean.

[Ruridova]

Are you serious or no? The emoticon means I want to make sure before I respond.

I'm legitimately curious what you mean.

With many of my larger nations last RP, there were concerns about feasibility and realism. There was skepticism over when some of them formed(Germany) and if several of them could have feasibly survived(Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia). There was a sentiment that I'd gotten several powerful nations and was trying to use them to dictate world affairs(CSA, Germany, Russia). There were also concerns about the size of my nations, and about how they got- and kept- certain territories(Germany, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia). Some people said that some of them shouldn't even have existed(CSA). With the exception of that last one, I can see the foundations of many of those with your nations. There's skepticism over when some of them form(Germany); there are fears that several powerful nations are being taken so as to control the world(Germany, France, Egypt, the American Boer states); there are concerns about the size of certain nations and how they got and kept certain territories(Egypt, Germany).

Anyways, that's just my two cents.

[Unicario]

I'm legitimately curious what you mean.

With many of my larger nations last RP, there were concerns about feasibility and realism. There was skepticism over when some of them formed(Germany) and if several of them could have feasibly survived(Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia). There was a sentiment that I'd gotten several powerful nations and was trying to use them to dictate world affairs(CSA, Germany, Russia). There were also concerns about the size of my nations, and about how they got- and kept- certain territories(Germany, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia). Some people said that some of them shouldn't even have existed(CSA). With the exception of that last one, I can see the foundations of many of those with your nations. There's skepticism over when some of them form(Germany); there are fears that several powerful nations are being taken so as to control the world(Germany, France, Egypt, the American Boer states); there are concerns about the size of certain nations and how they got and kept certain territories(Egypt, Germany).

Anyways, that's just my two cents.

Fairly put; my Germany will have a very well-put together rise.

[Ruridova]

Unrelated, but unless something changes or I don't know about somebody's plans, I think the only independent majority-Muslim nations in the world ATL are going to be Albania, Egypt, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran, and Afghanistan.

[United Marxist Nations]

Unrelated, but unless something changes or I don't know about somebody's plans, I think the only independent majority-Muslim nations in the world ATL are going to be Albania, Egypt, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Think Boji said that Pakistan will become independent. And also, decolonization will likely happen at some point (like in Real Life).

[Ruridova]

Unrelated, but unless something changes or I don't know about somebody's plans, I think the only independent majority-Muslim nations in the world ATL are going to be Albania, Egypt, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Think Boji said that Pakistan will become independent. And also, decolonization will likely happen at some point (like in Real Life).

Ok, so Albania, Egypt, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan... are there any African Muslims not under Egyptian control?

[United Marxist Nations]

Think Boji said that Pakistan will become independent. And also, decolonization will likely happen at some point (like in Real Life).

Ok, so Albania, Egypt, Turkey, Cyprus, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan... are there any African Muslims not under Egyptian control?

Quite a few: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... search.svg

Not sure the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Tajik, and Kyrgyzstan will become independent, unless you consider SSR's to be.

[Unicario]

The majority (if not outright all) of Africa's Muslims will probably be under Cairo...

[United Marxist Nations]

The majority (if not outright all) of Africa's Muslims will probably be under Cairo...

Taking control of all of West Africa, Somalia, and much of Southeast Africa would be quite the feat to be able to hold together, especially if in competition with other powers.

[Unicario]

The majority (if not outright all) of Africa's Muslims will probably be under Cairo...

Taking control of all of West Africa, Somalia, and much of Southeast Africa would be quite the feat to be able to hold together, especially if in competition with other powers.

Well, Somalia not as much, but West Africa, certainly, it'll be a devolved set of affairs, but it'll be under Egypt.

[United Marxist Nations]

Taking control of all of West Africa, Somalia, and much of Southeast Africa would be quite the feat to be able to hold together, especially if in competition with other powers.

Well, Somalia not as much, but West Africa, certainly, it'll be a devolved set of affairs, but it'll be under Egypt.

Kind of like a sub-state system?

[Unicario]

Well, Somalia not as much, but West Africa, certainly, it'll be a devolved set of affairs, but it'll be under Egypt.

Kind of like a sub-state system?

In a sense -- a large amount of autonomy.

[Ruridova]

Except why would black Africans be any more interested in Egyptian rule than European rule?

This is what I was mentioning earlier.

[Unicario]

Except why would black Africans be any more interested in Egyptian rule than European rule?

This is what I was mentioning earlier.

The Egyptians don't necessarily exploit their labour, culture and status for their own gain, they grant them autonomy not available under European rule, and they don't discriminate because they're blacks, or Muslims, or Christians for that matter.

[Luziyca]

Except why would black Africans be any more interested in Egyptian rule than European rule?

This is what I was mentioning earlier.

The Egyptians don't necessarily exploit their labour, culture and status for their own gain, they grant them autonomy not available under European rule, and they don't discriminate because they're blacks, or Muslims, or Christians for that matter.

To be honest, so did China last AWWA.

[Ruridova]

Except why would black Africans be any more interested in Egyptian rule than European rule?

This is what I was mentioning earlier.

The Egyptians don't necessarily exploit their labour, culture and status for their own gain, they grant them autonomy not available under European rule, and they don't discriminate because they're blacks, or Muslims, or Christians for that matter.

Except it isn't feasible because we're talking about dozens if not hundreds of unique African cultures, ruled by a faraway foreign king who speaks a different language and possibly worships a different god. They will not like that concept, particularly because they will never feel Egyptian. The concept that Egypt is a benevolent autonomy-giving leader is silly because it's the age of empires and even the comparatively good nations didn't really act like that. So logically Egypt should lose those African territories either in the age of nationalism- the late 1800s- or the era of decolonization- the 1940s-1970s.

This is also totally ignoring the fact that Egypt should probably not stay super large anyways because of Moroccan, Algerian, Libyan, Syrian, Iraqi, and/or Arabian nationalism because Arabic identity is not nearly as unified as Nasser wanted to believe, and because those nationalist mindsets existed by the time of World War One.

[Ruridova]

The Egyptians don't necessarily exploit their labour, culture and status for their own gain, they grant them autonomy not available under European rule, and they don't discriminate because they're blacks, or Muslims, or Christians for that matter.

To be honest, so did China last AWWA.

Yes, and we all remember that your China was utterly ludicrous.

[Luziyca]

To be honest, so did China last AWWA.

Yes, and we all remember that your China was utterly ludicrous.

Not as bad as Egypt.

[Pimps Inc]

So Spain's gone...
Long Live Charles III!