A World Without America II [Invite Only, See Within / OOC ]

[Of the Quendi]

Of the Quendi, how soon can Maximilian Franz/Alexandros be in Greece? I want him to save the day when the Turks try and attack Corinth, thus earning the respect of Greek monarchists and republicans alike.

Up to you. I hadn't really thought of sending him to Greece and risk anything for his crown. That isn't really the way of new monarchs, they generally speaking wait at whatever court they live until there is peace and they are summoned to be crowned, but you are welcome to take him.

[Qianrong]

(This is Ruridova, btw. Basically, Qianrong is to Ruridova what Mitteleuropa is to Unicario.)

Of the Quendi, how soon can Maximilian Franz/Alexandros be in Greece? I want him to save the day when the Turks try and attack Corinth, thus earning the respect of Greek monarchists and republicans alike.

Up to you. I hadn't really thought of sending him to Greece and risk anything for his crown. That isn't really the way of new monarchs, they generally speaking wait at whatever court they live until there is peace and they are summoned to be crowned, but you are welcome to take him.

I was just thinking that if he takes the risk and comes to Greece and proves himself, it will earn him a lot more Greek respect than if he stays in Schönbrunn until the war is over.

[Ruridova]

Going to confirm that I am Qianrong and briefly summarize my present plans for Greece:

So at the date of the Congress of Corinth's missive-sending, the major cities of what will become Greece are not all controlled by Greece, of course. A list is below.

Greek control: Corinth, Sparta, Patra, Piraeus, Lamia, Larissa, Volos, Igoumenitsa, Kerkyra, Komotini, Kalamata, Heraklion, Chios, Nicosia
Turkish control: Athens, Thessaloniki, Ammochostos, Kavala, Ermoupoli, Chalkida, Alexandroupoli, Mytilini, Rodos, Chania, Ioannina

Buoyed on by early successes, the Greeks will attempt to take Thessaloniki, Chania, & Ammochostos, only to lose the battles. The situation further deteriorates when the Turks take Corinth and crush Greek riots in Edirne and Izmir. A battle for Komotini initiated by the Turks will be a Pyrrhic victory for the Greeks; Ioannina will be a stalemate. The best news for Greece will be a minor victory in Kerkyra.

In Cyprus, the Greek defeat at Ammochostos will be followed by a Turkish siege of Nicosia, ending in a Turkish victory and the razing of the city. The surviving Greek forces will retreat to Dhekelia. Greece will narrowly fend off a Turkish assault on Heraklion and will successfully reclaim Chios. A fight for Rodos will be indecisive. The Turks will take Volos but the Greeks will successfully mount a defense at Larissa; a second battle for Ioannina is a Greek victory, but Piraeus falls to the Turks. Ermoupoli will be the site of a serious Greek defeat, and rebels will be crushed by the Turks at Alexandroupoli.

By this point, Alexandros will be in Greece and Greece will be in a dire state. Turkey will take Chalkida and Lamia, separating Attica and the Peloponnese from Thessaly, Macedonia, and Epirus. The first good news for Greece will be a stunning victory at Dhekelia, saving the Cyprus campaign. They'll follow this up with a victory at Chania and a victory at Kavala. The Greeks will remain under threat, though, as Turkey marches on Corinth. Alexandros convinced the Greek government to stay put instead of fleeing and creates the strategy for Greece's defense; the Greek victory at Corinth is a devastating loss for Turkey and the victorious Greeks chase the Turks all the way back to Athens, where a second victory for Greece leaves Athens and Piraeus in Greek hands.

The war will continue; a second battle at Nicosia will be a Greek victory, as will battles at Thessaloniki, Volos, and Lamia, though Turkey will triumph at Ermoupoli and Mytilini. A final Greek victory at Larissa forces Turkey to concede and let Greece become independent.

Plans are, of course, subject to change.

[Bojikami]

Where is everyone?

[Qianrong]

(once again, 'tis Ruri)

Where is everyone?

Busy with school. It's been made clear to me by certain individuals that school comes in front of doing anything that I enjoy, meaning what was previously free time is now time to sit in my room and do busywork to learn things I'll never use again.

[Bojikami]

(once again, 'tis Ruri)

Where is everyone?

Busy with school. It's been made clear to me by certain individuals that school comes in front of doing anything that I enjoy, meaning what was previously free time is now time to sit in my room and do busywork to learn things I'll never use again.

Oh, that sucks. I feel that way about Advanced Calculus.


I will post again today.

[United Marxist Nations]

I'll probably be home rest of the week, ice storm coming.

[Ruridova]

Still skeptical of the idea that Britain would allow even partial Prussian control over Hannover, or that Prussia would let Hannover retain sovereignty within any NGF.

[Bojikami]

Still skeptical of the idea that Britain would allow even partial Prussian control over Hannover, or that Prussia would let Hannover retain sovereignty within any NGF.

Uni and I already have it worked out as realistically as possible.

[Ruridova]

Still skeptical of the idea that Britain would allow even partial Prussian control over Hannover, or that Prussia would let Hannover retain sovereignty within any NGF.

Uni and I already have it worked out as realistically as possible.

Yes, I'm sure you have. At least, to your satisfaction; I would prefer it to be to all of our satisfactions.

And even if it is unrealistic or unfair, there's nothing I can do. There are two mods, you and Uni, both of whom are set on Hannover under British rule and Prussian suzerainty, and one of whom will not listen to anything at all from me because "priors".

[Unicario]

[Ruridova]

(Image)

Your debating skills are better than posting a single gif, Uni. Trust me, I know.

It would be fantastic if you said where I was wrong, for example.

[Unicario]

(Image)

Your debating skills are better than posting a single gif, Uni. Trust me, I know.

It would be fantastic if you said where I was wrong, for example.

The entire fundamental belief that Boji and I are against you because we're non-impartial OPs? Honestly, that's just nonsense. If I wanted to *really* target you or others to my own advantage, I would've already had tuberculosis ravage the Russian, Austrian and Greek armies, and basically unleashed a hellfire and damnation torrent of brutality because I've reserved my rights as OP to inflict random chaos on nations without warning to keep things interesting. So far I have not done that in order to maintain the fact that I am OP and I have responsibilities to not levy unjust and harshness upon nations who haven't deserved it. I've only threatened to unleash hell upon nations who go out of their way to act *beyond all recognizable boundaries of realism*, such as Vak wanting to keep his American colonies for a long time, or the idea of Korea conquering Japan while under the Chinese bootheel.

To be honest, your accusations are offensive and an insult to my character, and I would like an apology. I have done nothing in this RP that would warrant your crass, suspicious and downright unnecessary attitude, other than the establishment of a NGF in agreement with two player characters (both of whom consent to the federation). Realism has never been a core tenet of the AWWA RP, considering that on many occasions, YOUR GERMANY acted beyond realistic boundaries in the fact that it had no Hochseeflotte or Ostasienflotte to really compete with it's neighbors, never experienced Weltpolitik, and the establishment of a pan-elective monarchy (which was not something Germans would really consider). We all twisted realism as well in the sense that we basically blew butterflies into a burning furnace as we had historical people showing up >200 years after the original point of divergence. Chances are, Ronald Reagan, James Carter and Kim Il-sung would not be actual people in a world like the one in the original AWWA.

Also; the Confederate attack on Pearl Harbor in 1891? Naval technology and air technology was VERY PRIMITIVE at that time, and under no circumstances could such an attack be undertaken without it basically be pyrrhic, yet you captured the entire Japanese fleet stationed there. Hm.

So before you start going after me for being non-realistic and being rude to me by insisting that Boji and I are not fit to be OPs, I would advise you to chill the fuck out and realize that you're just being nasty toward us. There is no reason for your really misplaced and out of place suspicions and accusations. If you really cannot handle Boji and I running this RP, then you know where the door is. I would prefer you stay, but if you're going to devolve back into this pattern of hard suspicion when there is no such need for it considering Boji and I have been more focused on the glaring threat of the Austrians and Russians, well... yeah. No.

Oh also: The Confederacy's abolition of slavery, establishment of women's rights, and enacting of prohibition all in one omnibus bill. C'mon now, man. We're all guilty of fucking with realism.

[Ruridova]

Your debating skills are better than posting a single gif, Uni. Trust me, I know.

It would be fantastic if you said where I was wrong, for example.

The entire fundamental belief that Boji and I are against you because we're non-impartial OPs? Honestly, that's just nonsense. If I wanted to *really* target you or others to my own advantage, I would've already had tuberculosis ravage the Russian, Austrian and Greek armies, and basically unleashed a hellfire and damnation torrent of brutality because I've reserved my rights as OP to inflict random chaos on nations without warning to keep things interesting. So far I have not done that in order to maintain the fact that I am OP and I have responsibilities to not levy unjust and harshness upon nations who haven't deserved it. I've only threatened to unleash hell upon nations who go out of their way to act *beyond all recognizable boundaries of realism*, such as Vak wanting to keep his American colonies for a long time, or the idea of Korea conquering Japan while under the Chinese bootheel.

And yet you're convinced that I'm still concerned about what you termed "priors", that I'm unhappy about Russia or the Philippines or some shit last RP and am plotting to fuck you over. Not to mention that three of the rules explicitly listed me and one of them still does, which certainly created the impression that I was on thin ice before I'd even posted. If that isn't an insult to my character, or you being nasty to me, I'm not sure what is.

So before you start going after me for being non-realistic and being rude to me by insisting that Boji and I are not fit to be OPs, I would advise you to chill the fuck out and realize that you're just being nasty toward us. There is no reason for your really misplaced and out of place suspicions and accusations. If you really cannot handle Boji and I running this RP, then you know where the door is. I would prefer you stay, but if you're going to devolve back into this pattern of hard suspicion when there is no such need for it considering Boji and I have been more focused on the glaring threat of the Austrians and Russians, well... yeah. No.

Oh, yes, I'm the one making up threats that don't exist. You remember what plotting did to me last RP, and yet you are not only convinced that I'm doing it again, you're convinced I'm doing it over something that is now wholly irrelevant.

I'm not looking to leave, either. I'm not even looking to create conflict. I'm looking to guarantee that this RP's disputes are being judged by people who don't have dogs in the fight. I don't think that's too much to ask.

To be honest, your accusations are offensive and an insult to my character, and I would like an apology. I have done nothing in this RP that would warrant your crass, suspicious and downright unnecessary attitude, other than the establishment of a NGF in agreement with two player characters (both of whom consent to the federation). Realism has never been a core tenet of the AWWA RP, considering that on many occasions, YOUR GERMANY acted beyond realistic boundaries in the fact that it had no Hochseeflotte or Ostasienflotte to really compete with it's neighbors, never experienced Weltpolitik, and the establishment of a pan-elective monarchy (which was not something Germans would really consider). We all twisted realism as well in the sense that we basically blew butterflies into a burning furnace as we had historical people showing up >200 years after the original point of divergence. Chances are, Ronald Reagan, James Carter and Kim Il-sung would not be actual people in a world like the one in the original AWWA.

Also; the Confederate attack on Pearl Harbor in 1891? Naval technology and air technology was VERY PRIMITIVE at that time, and under no circumstances could such an attack be undertaken without it basically be pyrrhic, yet you captured the entire Japanese fleet stationed there. Hm.

Oh also: The Confederacy's abolition of slavery, establishment of women's rights, and enacting of prohibition all in one omnibus bill. C'mon now, man. We're all guilty of fucking with realism.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I've left a lot of the shit from last RP behind. I have only picked nations of lower to moderate power, I have sought your permission or input on large amounts of what I've done with them, I have picked nations I did not have in AWWA, I have tried to back up everything I did with real events or concepts, I have tried to drop the grudges from last RP. I have actively attempted to reform or abolish the flaws of last RP, and leave AWWA1 thoroughly in the past. I want this to be AWWA2, not AWWA1 redux. You should also note that I generally have trusted you two as OPs on this thread, with regards to the Greek Rebellion and Vaktovia among others. I'm simply saying that in this situation it would be better to have a neutral judge as we had in Shrillland.

I was not attempting to attack you personally. If it came across that way, I apologize. I was, however, trying to say that I would feel better if we had a judge who was not also the defense because that should prevent conflict in the future.

[United Marxist Nations]

We could have something like a "Concert of Europe" to decide realism, like all Great Power holders decide on disputed realism. So, right now, it would be Quendi, Uni, Boji, and I (correct me if there are more). It might start with problems because of the potential for tie, but we could have someone else as a tiebreaker in those cases. This should only be the case in times where it really is disputed, not that "women in the military in 1773" nonsense that we're all sure about.

[Ruridova]

We could have something like a "Concert of Europe" to decide realism, like all Great Power holders decide on disputed realism. So, right now, it would be Quendi, Uni, Boji, and I (correct me if there are more). It might start with problems because of the potential for tie, but we could have someone else as a tiebreaker in those cases. This should only be the case in times where it really is disputed, not that "women in the military in 1773" nonsense that we're all sure about.

That seems like a good idea. I endorse it.

Presently my nations are Greece, Two Sicilies, and Siam; if the limit is expanded to four, I'm interested in Haiti. None of those are great powers, and I don't want any of them to be great powers, so I won't be on the Concert list. Which, TBH, is fine by me.

[Unicario]

I don't support the idea because it seems like everyone has this idea that this RP isn't being run fairly for some reason. ._.

Boji and I colluding to strengthen Prussia does not corruption make. Britain and Prussia have similar interests.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

When we doing a Regional RP anyway? Ruri has not started one in a while. I'm debating starting a Vaktovian Civil War RP and basing the region with it, but only Ruri really knows my nation's culture and history, so I don't know if I retrospectively can. Also, for the regional map, am I still in charge of that and other such nonsense? I didn't ask any of these actually good questions the second I got back and now it's bugging me.

[Bojikami]

We could have something like a "Concert of Europe" to decide realism, like all Great Power holders decide on disputed realism. So, right now, it would be Quendi, Uni, Boji, and I (correct me if there are more). It might start with problems because of the potential for tie, but we could have someone else as a tiebreaker in those cases. This should only be the case in times where it really is disputed, not that "women in the military in 1773" nonsense that we're all sure about.

While I would love to support such an idea, I just cannot. Such a system would only make this already slow RP move slower and would overall limit everyone in the RP.

So, no from me.

[Unicario]

When we doing a Regional RP anyway? Ruri has not started one in a while. I'm debating starting a Vaktovian Civil War RP and basing the region with it, but only Ruri really knows my nation's culture and history, so I don't know if I retrospectively can. Also, for the regional map, am I still in charge of that and other such nonsense? I didn't ask any of these actually good questions the second I got back and now it's bugging me.

1. I'm in charge of the regional map, since it's my region.
2. This RP has nothing to do with Soyuznoye
3. We'll do a regional RP whenever.

[Ruridova]

I don't support the idea because it seems like everyone has this idea that this RP isn't being run fairly for some reason. ._.

I think UMN is trying to find a solution that will please all of us and prevent future disputes, not say that anyone is playing foul.

[Bojikami]

I don't support the idea because it seems like everyone has this idea that this RP isn't being run fairly for some reason. ._.

I think UMN is trying to find a solution that will please all of us and prevent future disputes, not say that anyone is playing foul.

I point to my post. Look, if you guys have concerns please express them civilly with Uni or I. Posting on here and trying to encite some argument isn't going to solve the problems

[United Marxist Nations]

We could have something like a "Concert of Europe" to decide realism, like all Great Power holders decide on disputed realism. So, right now, it would be Quendi, Uni, Boji, and I (correct me if there are more). It might start with problems because of the potential for tie, but we could have someone else as a tiebreaker in those cases. This should only be the case in times where it really is disputed, not that "women in the military in 1773" nonsense that we're all sure about.

While I would love to support such an idea, I just cannot. Such a system would only make this already slow RP move slower and would overall limit everyone in the RP.

So, no from me.

That's why I said only for real disputes and where there is an issue of possible corruption. So far, I haven't seen any evidence of that, but if it does, I'm sure we'd all want some way to protect ourselves from it.

[Unicario]

Territorial Changes:

• Russian annexation of Crimean Khanate, establishment of practical Black Sea hegemony, however, failure to take Tsargrad.
• Greek independence established, however, Megali idea not realized.
• Austrian hegemony over Bosnia established
• Hegemony established by Cossack Hetmanate as protectorates are set up in Wallachia, Moldavia, and Bulgaria.
• Egypt unites Arabian Peninsula, annexes Mesopotamia and Cyrenaica, establishes new order in the immediate Middle East
• Ottoman power broken

[United Marxist Nations]

Good luck keeping the Kurds in-line down the road. You're gonna need it.

EDIT: Also, Boji said he will post losses for kebab when the skirmish there happens. Are you actually making an AWWA wiki? If so, can hab link pl0x?