NationStates

Unicario wrote:

Luziyca wrote:In other news, the awkward moment when you send the very-popular Queen to ask a question at a political debate in disguise... and nobody notices her

??

Namorese presidential debate.

Unicario wrote:

Luziyca wrote:In other news, the awkward moment when you send the very-popular Queen to ask a question at a political debate in disguise... and nobody notices her

??

He's making references to a situation in Esquarium, a region that we both have nations in. He knows making injokes that others won't get frustrates me, so he makes references to AWWA in Esquarium and is now making Esquarium references here.


tl;dr Luz is a twat.

To be fair, I haven't made an AWWA reference in over a few months in Esquarium.

Luziyca wrote:To be fair, I haven't made an AWWA reference in over a few months in Esquarium.

Yeah but you're still an asshole.

So I started work on the 2018 CS presidential election with the following major party candidates:

- Hillary Rodham Clinton, former Secretary of State, for the Republicans;
- Ted Cruz, Senator for Texas, for the Democrats;
- Carly Fiorina, former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, for the Democrats;
- Lindsey Graham, Senator for South Carolina, for the Democrats;
- Martin O'Malley, former Governor of Maryland, for the Republicans;
- Marco Rubio, Senator for Florida, for the Democrats;
- and Jim Webb, former Senator for Virginia, for the Republicans.

Of those original seven, only two now remain in the RL 2016 US presidential election: Secretary Clinton and Senator Cruz. As a result, the 2018 CS presidential election will almost assuredly be between Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz. Clinton will have to fight off perceptions that she is out-of-touch and a long-festering e-mail scandal; Cruz will have to find a way to save his party's appeal among minorities and moderates.

It should be an interesting election, when it comes about.

Ruridova wrote:

Luziyca wrote:To be fair, I haven't made an AWWA reference in over a few months in Esquarium.

Yeah but you're still an asshole.

I suppose.

Luziyca wrote:knock knock. it's the europeans again.

really

really luz


i tell you not to do something so you find an oblique loophole and do that



jfc you're frustrating

Ruridova wrote:

Luziyca wrote:knock knock. it's the europeans again.

really

really luz


i tell you not to do something so you find an oblique loophole and do that



jfc you're frustrating

That, and also because Unicario may find it a bit interesting. I could see that being done for China ATL though.

Well, with things relatively inactive, I was thinking we should jump ahead to March. I was going to go to '02, but there's something that starts in March of '01 that needs to be addressed beforehand: The rise of the falangists in Ireland.

Luziyca wrote:knock knock. it's the europeans again.

Right up until the "Emperor overthrows the Shogunate, and the Shogun overthrows the Emperor" thingy, I love it. After that I'd have to rewrite the whole damn thing.

Shrillland wrote:Well, with things relatively inactive, I was thinking we should jump ahead to March. I was going to go to '02, but there's something that starts in March of '01 that needs to be addressed beforehand: The rise of the falangists in Ireland.

Well, fundamentally, I want to do the funeral of Queen Victoria. After that, yes.

Unicario wrote:

Luziyca wrote:knock knock. it's the europeans again.

Right up until the "Emperor overthrows the Shogunate, and the Shogun overthrows the Emperor" thingy, I love it. After that I'd have to rewrite the whole damn thing.

Dammit.

Which ATL nation can we do this to? Taiwan?

Luziyca wrote:

Unicario wrote:
Right up until the "Emperor overthrows the Shogunate, and the Shogun overthrows the Emperor" thingy, I love it. After that I'd have to rewrite the whole damn thing.

Dammit.

Which ATL nation can we do this to? Taiwan?

Taiwan is not a country. Formosa is a sovereign province of the Empire of Japan.

Also: I wonder how the Bush War will go when Japan intervenes to protect Ian Douglas-Smith's government. Japan wouldn't want Rhodesia to collapse as it would set the precedent for African militants to start a civil war in Mozambique and Ethiopia. So Japan would probably intervene against the nationalist militias, and commit to be the arbiter of a peace agreement. After the CAF/Rhodesia-Nyasaland fails in the 60s, Japan would be extremely interested in the on-goings of the situation at hand, and then would recognize Rhodesia's independence in 1965 (most countries didn't because it was unilateral), and would then back it over the militias; and largely attempt to secure a ceasefire/peace agreement/victory.

But they'd probably not put up with apartheid -- in fact, they'd down right loathe it, to the extent of embargoing South Africa until South Africa agrees to a power-sharing plan and/or releases Nelson Mandela. And if Japanese citizens are discriminated against, well... let's just say Vladimir Putin's Japanese cousin has some ideas.

Unicario wrote:

Luziyca wrote:Dammit.

Which ATL nation can we do this to? Taiwan?

Taiwan is not a country. Formosa is a sovereign province of the Empire of Japan.

Also: I wonder how the Bush War will go when Japan intervenes to protect Ian Douglas-Smith's government. Japan wouldn't want Rhodesia to collapse as it would set the precedent for African militants to start a civil war in Mozambique and Ethiopia. So Japan would probably intervene against the nationalist militias, and commit to be the arbiter of a peace agreement. After the CAF/Rhodesia-Nyasaland fails in the 60s, Japan would be extremely interested in the on-goings of the situation at hand, and then would recognize Rhodesia's independence in 1965 (most countries didn't because it was unilateral), and would then back it over the militias; and largely attempt to secure a ceasefire/peace agreement/victory.

But they'd probably not put up with apartheid -- in fact, they'd down right loathe it, to the extent of embargoing South Africa until South Africa agrees to a power-sharing plan and/or releases Nelson Mandela. And if Japanese citizens are discriminated against, well... let's just say Vladimir Putin's Japanese cousin has some ideas.

Well, I'd already planned on Southern Rhodesia playing a part in the Fifty Days War, Smith was one of the four targets for assassination that CSIS and the ANC try to orchestrate in an attempt to remove racist governments while remaining friendly to the Commonwealth.

Shrillland wrote:

Unicario wrote:
Taiwan is not a country. Formosa is a sovereign province of the Empire of Japan.

Also: I wonder how the Bush War will go when Japan intervenes to protect Ian Douglas-Smith's government. Japan wouldn't want Rhodesia to collapse as it would set the precedent for African militants to start a civil war in Mozambique and Ethiopia. So Japan would probably intervene against the nationalist militias, and commit to be the arbiter of a peace agreement. After the CAF/Rhodesia-Nyasaland fails in the 60s, Japan would be extremely interested in the on-goings of the situation at hand, and then would recognize Rhodesia's independence in 1965 (most countries didn't because it was unilateral), and would then back it over the militias; and largely attempt to secure a ceasefire/peace agreement/victory.

But they'd probably not put up with apartheid -- in fact, they'd down right loathe it, to the extent of embargoing South Africa until South Africa agrees to a power-sharing plan and/or releases Nelson Mandela. And if Japanese citizens are discriminated against, well... let's just say Vladimir Putin's Japanese cousin has some ideas.

Well, I'd already planned on Southern Rhodesia playing a part in the Fifty Days War, Smith was one of the four targets for assassination that CSIS and the ANC try to orchestrate in an attempt to remove racist governments while remaining friendly to the Commonwealth.

Hmm, in that case, I'll defer to your canon, surely; but I will interject that Japan may be agitated by the whole affair. While Mozambique is an independent state by the 1960s, it is still a Japanese dominion, and Japan feels that the rise of xenophobia in Southern Africa may force Mozambique into a state of emergency.

Unicario wrote:

Shrillland wrote:
Well, I'd already planned on Southern Rhodesia playing a part in the Fifty Days War, Smith was one of the four targets for assassination that CSIS and the ANC try to orchestrate in an attempt to remove racist governments while remaining friendly to the Commonwealth.

Hmm, in that case, I'll defer to your canon, surely; but I will interject that Japan may be agitated by the whole affair. While Mozambique is an independent state by the 1960s, it is still a Japanese dominion, and Japan feels that the rise of xenophobia in Southern Africa may force Mozambique into a state of emergency.

Well, the ultimate plan is for Southern Rhodesia to receive independence as Zimbabwe, Natalia to become a Japanese protectorate until the end of Apartheid and the dissolution of the Zulu Bantustan as a consequence.

Shrillland wrote:

Unicario wrote:
Hmm, in that case, I'll defer to your canon, surely; but I will interject that Japan may be agitated by the whole affair. While Mozambique is an independent state by the 1960s, it is still a Japanese dominion, and Japan feels that the rise of xenophobia in Southern Africa may force Mozambique into a state of emergency.

Well, the ultimate plan is for Southern Rhodesia to receive independence as Zimbabwe, Natalia to become a Japanese protectorate until the end of Apartheid and the dissolution of the Zulu Bantustan as a consequence.

Natalia as a Japanese protectorate would be a pretty common end-result of that then. Works for me.

So, one question... does what we call "modern music" really exist on the same scale ATL?

That may seem silly at first, but let me explain:

OTL, most modern music derives in some form from more traditional African and European styles. The mixture of blues, descended from slave spirituals, with European march music led to the rise of jazz. The further mixture of jazz with country and R&B elements led to the rise of rock 'n roll, which evolved into rock music and its subgenres- punk, progressive, alternative, et cetera. Pop, electronic, and hip-hop themselves evolved from rock infused with various other concepts and instrumentations. These mixtures of African and European styles, leading to the rise of these genres took place mostly within the United States, where European- and African- derived cultures both existed; they gained their global prominence because of American geopolitical and cultural clout.

ATL, however, there is no United States, and neither Canada nor the Confederacy has the cultural dominance of the OTL United States. While the simultaneous presence of whites and blacks exists in both countries- probably more so in the CSA than Canada, though a Great Migration may have occurred ATL and OTL, allowing for large black communities in Detroit, Chicago, and New York- they lack the global dominance of the USA. Without that global dominance, are jazz, rock, pop, and rap all just North American, and not global, phenomena? Without a culturally dominant US, is there a British Invasion? Are there genres like K-pop and J-pop? Or is what we consider most all of modern music just a Confederate/Canadian cultural oddity ATL?

Ruridova wrote:So, one question... does what we call "modern music" really exist on the same scale ATL?

That may seem silly at first, but let me explain:

OTL, most modern music derives in some form from more traditional African and European styles. The mixture of blues, descended from slave spirituals, with European march music led to the rise of jazz. The further mixture of jazz with country and R&B elements led to the rise of rock 'n roll, which evolved into rock music and its subgenres- punk, progressive, alternative, et cetera. Pop, electronic, and hip-hop themselves evolved from rock infused with various other concepts and instrumentations. These mixtures of African and European styles, leading to the rise of these genres took place mostly within the United States, where European- and African- derived cultures both existed; they gained their global prominence because of American geopolitical and cultural clout.

ATL, however, there is no United States, and neither Canada nor the Confederacy has the cultural dominance of the OTL United States. While the simultaneous presence of whites and blacks exists in both countries- probably more so in the CSA than Canada, though a Great Migration may have occurred ATL and OTL, allowing for large black communities in Detroit, Chicago, and New York- they lack the global dominance of the USA. Without that global dominance, are jazz, rock, pop, and rap all just North American, and not global, phenomena? Without a culturally dominant US, is there a British Invasion? Are there genres like K-pop and J-pop? Or is what we consider most all of modern music just a Confederate/Canadian cultural oddity ATL?

I suppose there would be no globally dominant or popular genres. I would think that music in Europe, for example would be quite different from that over in the Americas, or in Asia.

I dare say that considering Japan is (one) of the foremost superpowers in the world; Japanese cultural influence would appear in many places -- while the 19th century is largely European inspired, seeing the expansion of opera, traditional music, etc. in Japan -- Japanese people will eventually bandwagon and seek to meld Japanese culture with pop and rock music. Japan's roots in creating punk, rock and pop music comes largely from the Indonesian War (like Vietnam with America OTL), and influences the anti-establishment discourse that leads to the Syndicalist Revolution of 1979, spear-headed by the Syndicalist-Socialist alliance, leading to the United Front with Bernard Sanders at the helm. So, counter-cultural music still very much exists, and I expect the Confederates/Canadiens to put out a large amount of it -- stuff like Creedence Clearwater Revival, and such.

But as a result of Japan's early cultural "brain-meld" with Britain and the prolonged Anglophiliac sentiment, you'd see Japanese music ranging from stuff similar to Queen, all the way to the traditional J-Pop music commonly acclaimed by weebs.

As a result, you'd see Japan exporting a lot of it's music overseas in much the same way as America -- pop music, punk music and some rock-esque stuff.

I mean, Meiji as a spiritual icon has spread far beyond Japan's borders, making appearances in many faiths.

Britain and Japanese influence would probably be seen in albums like Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, which would be an album produced in the Confederate States. OTL, the album was very poppy mixed with traditional rock, influenced heavily by Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam. IATL, it would be influenced largely by J-Pop's synthy stuff, British music, and "generic" rock. That very same album was given high praise by the Japanese media.

However, chances are that music such as B.Y.O.B., Mosh, and other 21st century anti-war music would likely not exist. If it did, it would form itself in the form of sentiment against oppression (see: Germany fucking around with Denmark, for example?)

But I mean, these factors combined should allow for a lot of familiar culture to exist (Another Brick in the Wall, Welcome to the Machine), and most music that directly addresses Vietnam would be substituted for Indonesia, like Full Metal Jacket. Confederate States Marines Corps soldiers training at Parris Island before being shipped out to the Japanese front-line in Java, with Pvt. Joker photographing Japanese and Indonesian atrocities; meeting the Empress (she did serve as a front-line soldier in the 1960s, choosing to go off to fight, confident that she would see to the end...)

In China, the late 19th century and early 20th century would see Chinese music being melded with Japanese music, but after WW2, China basically collapses, and so it would not really be able to do much. During the 1940s to the 1970s, traditional Chinese music was emphasized, with nationalist messages. Now, China is desperately playing catch up, but it will never rise again.

The East may be red, but it is Japan, not China.

Well, largely due to government control of radio, much of the 'popular' music would be marching songs, songs made by artists pertaining to communism in a positive light or otherwise not subversive to the state. However in the 1990s and 2000s the lessening on the grip of things like radio would have some more variety introduced into Italy and the Soviet Union.

Sweden will still have largely death metal.

Luziyca wrote:In China, the late 19th century and early 20th century would see Chinese music being melded with Japanese music, but after WW2, China basically collapses, and so it would not really be able to do much. During the 1940s to the 1970s, traditional Chinese music was emphasized, with nationalist messages. Now, China is desperately playing catch up, but it will never rise again.

The East may be red, but it is Japan, not China.

The east is red, the sun is rising.
From Japan comes Bernard Sanders.
He strives for the people's happiness,
Hurrah, he is the people's great saviour!

(Oh no what have I done what have I done what have I done what have I done what have I done)