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by Ruridova » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:18 pm
by Unicario » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:37 pm
by Luziyca » Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:55 pm
by Ruridova » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:59 pm
by Unicario » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:04 pm
Ruridova wrote:So apparently Zionism was actually going through a lull at the present time in the IC thread, and was rekindled in the mid-1890s by a German Jewish author, who wrote a political treatise on the creation of a Jewish state.
Now I'm not huge on political treatises, but a fictional story endorsing the same concept, written by a different German Jew? That might pop up in the IC before too long...
by Luziyca » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:05 pm
Unicario wrote:Ruridova wrote:So apparently Zionism was actually going through a lull at the present time in the IC thread, and was rekindled in the mid-1890s by a German Jewish author, who wrote a political treatise on the creation of a Jewish state.
Now I'm not huge on political treatises, but a fictional story endorsing the same concept, written by a different German Jew? That might pop up in the IC before too long...
Zionism plays a part in Rum's history later on -- Rumite Jews (who have been moving into the Israel region for some period of time) are mostly anti-Zionists, as they feel that an independent Israel would be "potentially driven to extremes by radicals" -- while Zionists are typically foreign Jews. Zionists are considered seditious persons in modern Rum and are usually detained, arrested or expulsed.
by Ruridova » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:02 pm
Unicario wrote:Ruridova wrote:So apparently Zionism was actually going through a lull at the present time in the IC thread, and was rekindled in the mid-1890s by a German Jewish author, who wrote a political treatise on the creation of a Jewish state.
Now I'm not huge on political treatises, but a fictional story endorsing the same concept, written by a different German Jew? That might pop up in the IC before too long...
Zionism plays a part in Rum's history later on -- Rumite Jews (who have been moving into the Israel region for some period of time) are mostly anti-Zionists, as they feel that an independent Israel would be "potentially driven to extremes by radicals" -- while Zionists are typically foreign Jews. Zionists are considered seditious persons in modern Rum and are usually detained, arrested or expulsed.
Luziyca wrote:Unicario wrote:
Zionism plays a part in Rum's history later on -- Rumite Jews (who have been moving into the Israel region for some period of time) are mostly anti-Zionists, as they feel that an independent Israel would be "potentially driven to extremes by radicals" -- while Zionists are typically foreign Jews. Zionists are considered seditious persons in modern Rum and are usually detained, arrested or expulsed.
In the 1920s up to the 1950s, you could send them to the Crimea and help dilute the Ukrain... sorry, "prisoners of war" that inhabit the northern provinces and reduce Ukrainian Orthodoxy's dominance in the north (it will fail, though).
by Luziyca » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:20 pm
Ruridova wrote:Unicario wrote:
Zionism plays a part in Rum's history later on -- Rumite Jews (who have been moving into the Israel region for some period of time) are mostly anti-Zionists, as they feel that an independent Israel would be "potentially driven to extremes by radicals" -- while Zionists are typically foreign Jews. Zionists are considered seditious persons in modern Rum and are usually detained, arrested or expulsed.
So how would Rum react to the publication of such a book?
What about the outcry of the Jewish diaspora abroad against Rum's actions?Luziyca wrote:In the 1920s up to the 1950s, you could send them to the Crimea and help dilute the Ukrain... sorry, "prisoners of war" that inhabit the northern provinces and reduce Ukrainian Orthodoxy's dominance in the north (it will fail, though).
Yes, and the ATL Jewish Autonomous Oblast is far more hospitable. During the period where Caucasia ruled parts of Russia, they exterminated the Circassians, Ossetians, Chechnyans, Adygheans, Dagestanis, etc., leaving them empty. Russia retook that land in the Great War, pushing the Caucasians back to the OTL Russian border- meaning these lands are now in Russian hands, are far more hospitable than Siberia, and are ready to be moved in to.
So the ATL JAO is in far southern Russia.
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:34 am
Ruridova wrote:So how would Rum react to the publication of such a book?
What about the outcry of the Jewish diaspora abroad against Rum's actions?
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:51 am
by Bojikami » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:03 am
Unicario wrote:>Apartheid
>Getrennenheit
>Crimean segregation
>Caucasian genocide
>Ainu massacres and expulsions
We escaped some horrors of OTL, but in retrospect, how much better is ATL from OTL? >>
by Shrillland » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:13 am
Unicario wrote:>Apartheid
>Getrennenheit
>Crimean segregation
>Caucasian genocide
>Ainu massacres and expulsions
We escaped some horrors of OTL, but in retrospect, how much better is ATL from OTL? >>
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:24 am
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:48 am
by Luziyca » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:30 am
Unicario wrote:>Apartheid
>Getrennenheit
>Crimean segregation
>Caucasian genocide
>Ainu massacres and expulsions
We escaped some horrors of OTL, but in retrospect, how much better is ATL from OTL? >>
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:13 pm
Unicario wrote:Ruridova wrote:So how would Rum react to the publication of such a book?
What about the outcry of the Jewish diaspora abroad against Rum's actions?
Rum would probably condemn the book's Zionist message and say that the "Holy Land" is the legitimate territory of the Rumite Empire, who has the been the most competent steward in hundreds of years, and that the people of the Holy Land are content, happy and prosperous. (The Zionist Revolt that follows between 1948 and 1953 would change the message that Zionists are enemies of all nations and will stop at nothing to impose their will on the world)
The Jewish diaspora outside Rum would probably get pissy that Rum refuses to let them have Israel -- The Jews living inside of Rum that are citizens are treated very well, they live all through out the Empire, with the largest Jewish population actually being in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica instead of Palestine. However, foreign Jews, depending on their beliefs, may be hostile. Between 1948 and 1953, a group of Zionists invaded Rum using weapons acquired from backdoor contacts to create a State of Israel, however, Rum soundly defeated them and undertook a deportation of non-citizen Jews living in Palestine, either back home, or to other parts of Rum, or even into the Jewish Autonomous Oblast in Russia.
Rum would in general respect the rights of the Jews, and treat them as citizens and people, but Zionism is frowned upon and a crime to publically espouse. Rum would encourage nations to stop Zionism as it will "cause disruption in the Middle East".
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:31 pm
Ruridova wrote:Now I'm not huge on political treatises, but a fictional story endorsing the same concept, written by a different German Jew? That might pop up in the IC before too long...
by Luziyca » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:05 pm
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:14 pm
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:16 pm
by Bojikami » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:06 pm
Ruridova wrote:Just throwing this out there, Golda Meir was actually born in Kyiv, and only moved to Israel because she was a Zionist. So if she's not a Zionist, it would make more sense for her to be a prominent Soviet communist, not a Rumite Jew.
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:02 pm
Bojikami wrote:Ruridova wrote:Just throwing this out there, Golda Meir was actually born in Kyiv, and only moved to Israel because she was a Zionist. So if she's not a Zionist, it would make more sense for her to be a prominent Soviet communist, not a Rumite Jew.
Aw yiss.
Also, in regards to the Jews, the Italkim Jews would be persecuted under Mussolini and would likely be Zionist.
Krymchak Jews, however are not in Ukraine. This dates back to the days of Ruthenia where Oleksandr, due to pressure from the Jews in his military command, declared them all honorary Ruthenian Slavs and therefore had a comfortable position in Ruthenia and the Soviet Union.
by Ruridova » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:13 pm
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:19 pm
Ruridova wrote:Would it ban the book at any point?
Could foreign Jews be arrested for being Zionist? Because I could see that causing some serious trouble in terms of international relations.
by Unicario » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:39 pm
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