What if Canada and Britian Won the war of 1812?

[Militire]

Imagine that if General Isaac Brock had not died at the Battle of Queenston Heights, and recived significant naval and army support from Britian. What would have happened? Care to share your thoughts? How would the world be today?

[Tsa-la-gi Nation]

It's possible that there could have been an Indian Nations State west of the Ohio river. Tecumseh could have been viewed as a hero in more than just the eyes of Indians. As a result, the plains Indians might have fared better. Lincoln might have never been president, or the outcome of the civil war could have been different without ohio & indiana sending troups.

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

[Zeppy]

Treaty and all, British leave to fight bigger fishes, Indians get stronger, Canada becomes more powerful, possibly hegemony on the USA.

[Militire]

Uh, we did win. It was an American invasion of Canada. Did America capture Canada? No. So really, America won when we counter-invaded, but lost on our turf. I'd say it's pretty equal.

Oh I agree,don't get me wrong. But what if Canada and Britian broke the stalemate ( look at the way the war was fought without a major victory on either side). How would North America been changed?

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Not nessisarily. If the Brits and Canadians stuned American expansion, Who do you think would control all those resources? It would let Britian play international super power for a huge amount of time, and then after, Canada would take the world stage.

[The Parkus Empire]

Uh, we did win. It was an American invasion of Canada. Did America capture Canada? No. So really, America won when we counter-invaded, but lost on our turf. I'd say it's pretty equal.

Nah. It was actually just a misunderstanding. America was fighting to stop the British impressing U.S. civilians and sailors, but Britain stopped this about the time the war started, so it was all pointless. The U.S. got what it wanted, but not because of the war, making it basically a draw.

If Britain had conquered the U.S., then how would things be? The U.S. would probably gain independence again down the road, but it wouldn't be the power it is now; it would just be another Canada. But Britain had Bonaparte to deal with, so this possibility is extremely unlikely.

[Lackadaisical2]

Uh, we did win. It was an American invasion of Canada. Did America capture Canada? No. So really, America won when we counter-invaded, but lost on our turf. I'd say it's pretty equal.

Oh I agree,don't get me wrong. But what if Canada and Britian broke the stalemate ( look at the way the war was fought without a major victory on either side). How would North America been changed?

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Not nessisarily. If the Brits and Canadians stuned American expansion, Who do you think would control all those resources? It would let Britian play international super power for a huge amount of time, and then after, Canada would take the world stage.

depending how huge amount you mean, probably not. *imagines what Europe would look like after WW2 w/o a strong USA*

[SaintB]

If the ceasefire and peace treaty hadn't been signed I am under the impression that the Battle of New Orleans would have been the end of the conflict as the British had more pressing concerns with Napoleon and his crew; so I don't think things would have been much more different.

[Asovium]

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Surely if the US remained part of Britain, the Empire would have enough resources and confidence to fend off Hitler and his motley gang before he invaded Poland?

[Lackadaisical2]

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Surely if the US remained part of Britain, the Empire would have enough resources and confidence to fend off Hitler and his motley gang before he invaded Poland?

That'd presume the USA expanding anything like it did after independence.

[New Gay Pride]

It's possible that there could have been an Indian Nations State west of the Ohio river. Tecumseh could have been viewed as a hero in more than just the eyes of Indians. As a result, the plains Indians might have fared better. Lincoln might have never been president, or the outcome of the civil war could have been different without ohio & indiana sending troups.

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

The nazis were vastly supported because of the resentment against the harsh condidtions of the Versailles Treaty of 1920. Those conditions were so harsh because Germany lost that war dismally, because the US had a belated arrival at the scene of the first world war (1917). Without that arrival, conditions of the Versailles Treaty would have been more along the lines of status quo ante. And then Hitler would have had far less resentment to ride.

To put it in an exgerated way: no Adolph Hitler without Woodrow Wilson.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

I any 'what if' situation it is best to presume that cats will be the top species.

[Lackadaisical2]

I any 'what if' situation it is best to presume that cats will be the top species.

personally I'd go with penguin-octopus hybrids, but same principle really.

[Nobel Hobos]

Imagine that if General Isaac Brock had not died at the Battle of Queenston Heights, and recived significant naval and army support from Britian. What would have happened? Care to share your thoughts? How would the world be today?

That bit of North America would be independent of Britain. They lost all the rest of their Empire, including the very lucrative India. They lost their empire ... and mostly they lost it honourably, despite having won it less-than honourably.

The longer Britain had held the American colonies, the more messed up that place would be today.

Three cheers for Britain! Great conquerors, bad-to-fair occupiers, and graceful in the cut-and-run.

Hip-hip!

[Lackadaisical2]

Imagine that if General Isaac Brock had not died at the Battle of Queenston Heights, and recived significant naval and army support from Britian. What would have happened? Care to share your thoughts? How would the world be today?

That bit of North America would be independent of Britain. They lost all the rest of their Empire, including the very lucrative India. They lost their empire ... and mostly they lost it honourably, despite having won it less-than honourably.

The longer Britain had held the American colonies, the more messed up that place would be today.

Three cheers for Britain! Great conquerors, bad-to-fair occupiers, and graceful in the cut-and-run.

Hip-hip!

Hooray!

[Khalima]

The world would have been a better place, the less influence USA holds the better.

[The Parkus Empire]

The world would have been a better place, the less influence USA holds the better.

Because the British Empire was oh-so-much-more-enlightened.

[Call to power]

If the ceasefire and peace treaty hadn't been signed I am under the impression that the Battle of New Orleans would have been the end of the conflict as the British had more pressing concerns with Napoleon and his crew; so I don't think things would have been much more different.

this.

we may see a slightly more wonky line between the US and Canada but real men had other things to get shot at for

That'd presume the USA expanding anything like it did after independence.

well Oz hasn't done all that bad and they made excellent cannon fodder

[Dungeyland]

Uh, we did win. It was an American invasion of Canada. Did America capture Canada? No. So really, America won when we counter-invaded, but lost on our turf. I'd say it's pretty equal.

Yes, everybody seems to think that the US won the war of 1812. They didn't! It ended in a stalemate.

[Lackadaisical2]

Uh, we did win. It was an American invasion of Canada. Did America capture Canada? No. So really, America won when we counter-invaded, but lost on our turf. I'd say it's pretty equal.

Yes, everybody seems to think that the US won the war of 1812. They didn't! It ended in a stalemate.

ah, the ever nebulous 'everyone'

its taught as a draw, even in our reeducation camps.

[Call to power]

Because the British Empire was oh-so-much-more-enlightened.

why do you hate freedom? (from slavery)

course hurrah for uncle Sam and all that Jazz

[The Parkus Empire]

why do you hate freedom? (from slavery)

course hurrah for uncle Sam and all that Jazz

Really the same thing. The U.S. is just the British Empire of today. It might seems rather shitty, but it's not like Britain wouldn't be the same way if it were still on top. And just like Britain was more progressive back then (slavery, as you pointed out, though Britain did still have slavery at the time of the war), the U.S. is more progressive now, at least in every regard but healthcare.

[Khalima]

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Lol, americans, always thinking they won ww2 all by themselves.

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[Halzak]

Because the British Empire was oh-so-much-more-enlightened.

why do you hate freedom? (from slavery)

Slavery went on as long as it did mostly b/c of State's Rights prevented the Federal Government from ending it, the British had the benefit of being an Empire and their government/power concentrated in London.

[Call to power]

Really the same thing. The U.S. is just the British Empire of today. It might seems rather shitty, but it's not like Britain wouldn't be the same way if it were still on top. And just like Britain was more progressive back then (slavery, as you pointed out, though Britain did still have slavery at the time of the war), the U.S. is more progressive now, at least in every regard but healthcare.

1) I hinted at Jazz for a reason

and no I'm sure we would be far worse what with the taking a big shit on the lives of colonials

2) call me when you allow people old enough to vote the right to drink

Lol, americans, always thinking they won ww2 all by themselves.

balls to having to learn Russian man that stuff is hard (and they don't really think this)

[Dungeyland]

Of course if this were all true, the United States may not have ever been able to muster the strenght to become a world power & play a powerful role against the Nazis. We could all be speeking german in north america (& the UK) if US expansion was stunted.

Lol, americans, always thinking they won ww2 all by themselves.

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^ This.