We've had an opportunity this week, but unfortunately the fact we're already a full day behind before we've even had a PM Confirmation vote means we're going to get very little done.
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by Great Nepal » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:20 pm
Heraklea- wrote:Great Nepal wrote:Yes, and there is a bill with the speaker to amend that with presumption of confidence.
And if one without confidence is appointed, then a vote of no confidence will immediately be called, the Prime Minister will be shown to lack the confidence of the body, thus negating the possibility of a minority government.
Battlion wrote:Great Nepal wrote:To be fair, private members bills generally dont see day of light in other parliaments either.
We've had an opportunity this week, but unfortunately the fact we're already a full day behind before we've even had a PM Confirmation vote means we're going to get very little done.
by Great Nepal » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:28 pm
by Great Nepal » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:37 pm
Battlion wrote:I support the bill in regards to a term for Speakers, this should not change.
by Heraklea- » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:45 pm
Great Nepal wrote:Battlion wrote:I support the bill in regards to a term for Speakers, this should not change.
Speakers should have presumption of confidence, they had confidence of last parliament and then of the public on their job in last parliament; unless there is good reason to think they don't have confidence now, we shouldn't have another vote.
by Great Nepal » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:49 pm
Heraklea- wrote:Great Nepal wrote:Speakers should have presumption of confidence, they had confidence of last parliament and then of the public on their job in last parliament; unless there is good reason to think they don't have confidence now, we shouldn't have another vote.
Yes we should. The confidence in the speaker, like the confidence in the government and the prime minister, should be confirmed each session.
by Battlion » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:05 pm
Great Nepal wrote:Heraklea- wrote:Yes we should. The confidence in the speaker, like the confidence in the government and the prime minister, should be confirmed each session.
If there aren't 8 MPs saying they don't have confidence in speaker, I think its safe to assume speaker indeed has confidence of the parliament and for us to move on to important bills.
by The Sarian » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:31 pm
Parliamentary Presidium Act
Author: Matilde Ojeda Campos (The Sarian | Free Democratic Party)
Sponsors: Euàn Welder (Battlion | Democratic Left); Kenneth Diaz (Lykens | Liberal Democrats); Eugenia Malgrave (Malgrave | Democratic Left); Planita (Liberal Democrats)
An Act to Define and Dictate the Roles and Responsibilities of Presiding Officers of the Calaverdean Parliament
Section 1: Repeals and AmendmentsTo be added
Section 2: Chairmanship
- The Vice President, in his role as ceremonial President of Parliament, shall chair debates and votes patterning to:
i) Nominations to the Office of Prime Minister
ii) Elections for the Office of Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament
iii) Motions of No Confidence- To resolve ties in the house, the Speaker will call the Vice President into Parliament to give the casting vote.
- On all other days the presiding officer shall be the Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament.
- The Speaker shall appoint three Deputy Speakers, who shall chair parliament whilst the Speaker is unavailable.
- The presiding officer shall ensure that the rules laid down by parliament are observed during debate.
Section 2: Nomination of the Speaker
- The Speaker shall be elected by Parliament and shall serve until the beginning of the next session unless removed under the provisions of Section 5.
- Elections shall occur when the Office of the Speaker is vacant.
- To be included in the ballot, a sitting Member of Parliament must put themselves forward and have their nomination seconded by five different Members of Parliament.
- The Vice President, in his capacity as President of Parliament, shall be responsible for maintaining the list of all nominated MPs.
- After a 24 hour nomination period, the Vice President shall present to Parliament a ballot of all MPs with the requirements to be included on said ballot, in addition to the option to Re-open Nominations.
- Members of Parliament shall vote using the Instant Run-off System.
- The nominated member who obtains more than 50% of the vote (including second, third... choices, where required) shall be appointed to the office of Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament by the Vice President.
Section 3: The Speaker
- The Speaker shall be presiding officer of all regular parliamentary business.
- The Speaker shall ensure that debates run smoothly and are carried out in an orderly fashion.
- The Speaker has the power to remove Members of Parliament from the chamber for a specified amount of time, in accordance with legislation and standing orders.
- The Speaker has the power to introduce standing orders subject to the approval of parliament.
- The Speaker shall have control of the Order of Business which will be decided by:
i) Three bills nominated by the Government.
ii) One bill nominated from the largest opposition party or coalition.
iii) The Private Members Bill which has been in the queue for longest.
iv) One day at the discretion of the Speaker, which may (though is not limited to) be Emergency Legislation, Prime Ministers Questions or a Private Members Bill.
v) One day of voting, typically at the end of the week.
vi) Normal business may be suspended for emergency debates or votes, which will be at the discretion of the Speaker or if a motion receives fifteen seconds.- The Speaker must resign his position in his political party in addition to all politically partial organizations, committees and think tanks upon election.
- The Speaker may not debate in the chamber.
- The Speaker may not vote in divisions.
Section 4: Deputy Speakers
- The Speaker shall appoint three Deputy Speakers.
i) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from the governing party or coalition.
ii) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from the opposition party or coalition.
iii) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from a Member of Parliament not in the government or official opposition.
iv) If, for whatever reason, the Speaker can not appoint a Deputy Speaker, the appointment may be postponed indefinitely.- The Speaker shall strive to appoint Deputy Speakers so that one shall be available at all times. (OOC: One Deputy Speaker each from British and Similar Time Zones, American and Similar Time Zones and Australian and similar time zones)
- A Deputy Speaker shall hold the same powers as the Speaker while presiding over the Chamber.
- A Deputy Speaker shall not be required to resign from their party.
- A Deputy Speaker may not debate in the chamber.
Section 5: Removal of the Speaker
- The Speaker may be removed by the tabling of a Motion of No Confidence which receives 8 seconds.
- There may not be more than one Motion of No Confidence in a calendar month.
- Motions of No Confidence shall be presided over by the Vice President.
- Motions of No Confidence shall pass or fail by a simple majority.
i) If no majority can be reached, the Vice President shall have the deciding vote.- If a Motion of No Confidence is successful, the Speaker shall be forced to resign.
Section 6: Upon PassageUpon the bill being given assent, there shall be an immediate election for Speaker under the provisions laid out in Section 2.
by Heraklea- » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:11 am
The Sarian wrote:Anyone thoughts or sponsors?
Also aware that what I have written may contradict previous legislation, so if people could help tell me which bits of which acts need to be amended, that'd be fabulous.Parliamentary Presidium Act
Author: Matilde Ojeda Campos (The Sarian | Free Democratic Party)
Sponsors: Euàn Welder (Battalion | Democratic Left); Kenneth Diaz (Lykens | Liberal Democrats); Eugenia Malgrave (Malgrave | Democratic Left)
An Act to Define and Dictate the Roles and Responsibilities of Presiding Officers of the Calaverdean Parliament
Section 1: Repeals and AmendmentsTo be added
Section 2: Chairmanship
- The Vice President, in his role as ceremonial President of Parliament, shall chair debates and votes patterning to:
i) Nominations to the Office of Prime Minister
ii) Elections for the Office of Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament
iii) Motions of No Confidence- To resolve ties in the house, the Speaker will call the Vice President into Parliament to give the casting vote.
- On all other days the presiding officer shall be the Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament.
- The Speaker shall appoint three Deputy Speakers, who shall chair parliament whilst the Speaker is unavailable.
- The presiding officer shall ensure that the rules laid down by parliament are observed during debate.
Section 2: Nomination of the Speaker
- The Speaker shall be elected by Parliament and shall serve until the beginning of the next session unless removed under the provisions of Section 5.
- Elections shall occur when the Office of the Speaker is vacant.
- To be included in the ballot, a sitting Member of Parliament must put themselves forward and have their nomination seconded by five different Members of Parliament.
- The Vice President, in his capacity as President of Parliament, shall be responsible for maintaining the list of all nominated MPs.
- After a 24 hour nomination period, the Vice President shall present to Parliament a ballot of all MPs with the requirements to be included on said ballot, in addition to the option to Re-open Nominations.
- Members of Parliament shall vote using the Instant Run-off System.
- The nominated member who obtains more than 50% of the vote (including second, third... choices, where required) shall be appointed to the office of Speaker of the Calaverdean Parliament by the Vice President.
Section 3: The Speaker
- The Speaker shall be presiding officer of all regular parliamentary business.
- The Speaker shall ensure that debates run smoothly and are carried out in an orderly fashion.
- The Speaker has the power to remove Members of Parliament from the chamber for a specified amount of time, in accordance with legislation and standing orders.
- The Speaker has the power to introduce standing orders subject to the approval of parliament.
- The Speaker shall have control of the Order of Business which will be decided by:
i) Three bills nominated by the Government.
ii) One bill nominated from the largest opposition party or coalition.
iii) The Private Members Bill which has been in the queue for longest.
iv) One day at the discretion of the Speaker, which may (though is not limited to) be Emergency Legislation, Prime Ministers Questions or a Private Members Bill.
v) One day of voting, typically at the end of the week.
vi) Normal business may be suspended for emergency debates or votes, which will be at the discretion of the Speaker or if a motion receives fifteen seconds.- The Speaker must resign his position in his political party in addition to all politically partial organizations, committees and think tanks upon election.
- The Speaker may not debate in the chamber.
- The Speaker may not vote in divisions.
Section 4: Deputy Speakers
- The Speaker shall appoint three Deputy Speakers.
i) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from the governing party or coalition.
ii) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from the opposition party or coalition.
iii) One Deputy Speaker shall be appointed from a Member of Parliament not in the government or official opposition.
iv) If, for whatever reason, the Speaker can not appoint a Deputy Speaker, the appointment may be postponed indefinitely.- The Speaker shall strive to appoint Deputy Speakers so that one shall be available at all times. (OOC: One Deputy Speaker each from British and Similar Time Zones, American and Similar Time Zones and Australian and similar time zones)
- A Deputy Speaker shall hold the same powers as the Speaker while presiding over the Chamber.
- A Deputy Speaker shall not be required to resign from their party.
- A Deputy Speaker may not debate in the chamber.
- A Deputy Speaker may not vote in divisions.
Section 5: Removal of the Speaker
- The Speaker may be removed by the tabling of a Motion of No Confidence which receives 8 seconds.
- There may not be more than one Motion of No Confidence in a calendar month.
- Motions of No Confidence shall be presided over by the Vice President.
- Motions of No Confidence shall pass or fail by a simple majority.
i) If no majority can be reached, the Vice President shall have the deciding vote.- If a Motion of No Confidence is successful, the Speaker shall be forced to resign.
Section 6: Upon PassageUpon the bill being given assent, there shall be an immediate election for Speaker under the provisions laid out in Section 2.
by Collatis » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:40 am
Heraklea- wrote:I still say get rid of the ban on Speaker and Deputy Speakers voting. Their casting a vote does not deprive them of their ability to impartially mediate debates. If anything, the most they should be restricted is from voting unless their vote could affect the outcome.
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by The Sarian » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:50 am
by Heraklea- » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:55 am
The Sarian wrote:While I accept your concern, more people will - and are - concerned about the Speaker voting rather than him not voting.
I was in favour of allowing Deputy Speakers to vote, but the majority of people were opposed to this, and I'd rather make that small concession than have this bill not passed, or even debated.
by Malgrave » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:08 am
Frenequesta wrote:Well-dressed mad scientists with an edge.
by Battlion » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:17 am
Heraklea- wrote:The Sarian wrote:While I accept your concern, more people will - and are - concerned about the Speaker voting rather than him not voting.
I was in favour of allowing Deputy Speakers to vote, but the majority of people were opposed to this, and I'd rather make that small concession than have this bill not passed, or even debated.
Battlion is the only one who aggressively advocates for such a position, Lykens has voiced some moderate support for it. Myself, Nihil and Collatis have all said otherwise. The majority who publicly voiced an opinion said nix it.
by Battlion » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:22 am
Great Nepal wrote:Anyway if we are going to reform the speakership here is what I would generally suggest:
- VP continues as president of parliament and speaker is subordinate to the VP but either of them can preside over the parliament.In instances where there is motion of no confidence against the speaker, VP presides and in event of impeachment speaker presides.
- Presiding officer, be it VP or speaker, may not debate nor shall they vote except when there is a tie. No Speaker Denison's rule because we dont have first/ second readings so requiring vote against final reading would mean vote against all bills.
- Speaker will be voted in by a majority of the parliament and will remain in the position until such time that it becomes vacant. After elections for parliament there is presumption of confidence.
- Position of speaker will only be vacant if:-1. Speaker is unable to carry out their duties due to mental or physical incapacitation or death,
2. Speaker resigns,
3. Speaker is no longer member of the parliament, or
4. Vote of no confidence as triggered by petition submitted before the vice president with no less than 8 member of parliament as signatories.
5. If position of both VP and Speaker is absent, then one of the deputies will serve as speaker and there will be vote in parliament for speaker forthwith. If there are no speakers, government will appoint someone to preside over for exclusive purpose of having a election for speaker.
6. Except when position of VP is vacant, candidates for speaker will be as put forward by the VP. VP can only put forward one person, and anyone interested must submit a petition to the VP signed by as many MPs as they can find.
7. If position of VP is vacant, then all the candidates will be given 48 hours to collect as many MPs signatures as they can and parliament will consider candidacy of that person. If that person is not elected, parliament moves on to next person and so on.
by Great Nepal » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:29 am
Battlion wrote:And I'm sure there are 8 MPs who would say they have confidence in the Prime Minister, we still have terms for them.
Battlion wrote:The Speaker should not be granted an untouchable status where they are not regularly accountable to this Parliament
Battlion wrote:Also on this, I'm not in favour of the VP nominating a Speaker. It should be an open and inclusive process that allows every MP the opportunity to stand for Speaker.
Battlion wrote:Ok, let me put it this way.
If the Speaker is allowed to vote under any circumstances from this bill, I'm withdrawing my sponsorship.
The President backs me, and of course the current Speaker who has said that the job of being an MP and Speaker are two different jobs and allows him to go happy go lucky over his actions and be party political whenever he likes would oppose him being neutered.
by Heraklea- » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:29 am
Battlion wrote:Heraklea- wrote:Battlion is the only one who aggressively advocates for such a position, Lykens has voiced some moderate support for it. Myself, Nihil and Collatis have all said otherwise. The majority who publicly voiced an opinion said nix it.
Ok, let me put it this way.
If the Speaker is allowed to vote under any circumstances from this bill, I'm withdrawing my sponsorship.
The President backs me, and of course the current Speaker who has said that the job of being an MP and Speaker are two different jobs and allows him to go happy go lucky over his actions and be party political whenever he likes would oppose him being neutered.
by Battlion » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:34 am
Heraklea- wrote:Battlion wrote:
Ok, let me put it this way.
If the Speaker is allowed to vote under any circumstances from this bill, I'm withdrawing my sponsorship.
The President backs me, and of course the current Speaker who has said that the job of being an MP and Speaker are two different jobs and allows him to go happy go lucky over his actions and be party political whenever he likes would oppose him being neutered.
And I will sponsor if the provision is withdrawn. It is entirely wrong that allowing a speaker to vote denies their ability to be impartial while mediating debate. It is entirely wrong that allowing a speaker to vote denies their ability to be impartial while administering the vote. The same goes even more so for the Deputy Speakers. Removing one vote within the body, which can have a marginal effect in most cases so far, is bad enough. Eliminating four greatly undermines the democratic process of the body and creates a situation where acts that would pass, even without the Speaker voting, could fail because four members were barred from voting. Using a Robert's Rules version would be far better as the Speaker and Deputy Speaker would not cast votes unless those votes could affect the ultimate passage or defeat of a measure before this body. It is a sensible compromise between run-rampant speakers and undemocratic restrictions.
by Heraklea- » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:37 am
Battlion wrote:Heraklea- wrote:And I will sponsor if the provision is withdrawn. It is entirely wrong that allowing a speaker to vote denies their ability to be impartial while mediating debate. It is entirely wrong that allowing a speaker to vote denies their ability to be impartial while administering the vote. The same goes even more so for the Deputy Speakers. Removing one vote within the body, which can have a marginal effect in most cases so far, is bad enough. Eliminating four greatly undermines the democratic process of the body and creates a situation where acts that would pass, even without the Speaker voting, could fail because four members were barred from voting. Using a Robert's Rules version would be far better as the Speaker and Deputy Speaker would not cast votes unless those votes could affect the ultimate passage or defeat of a measure before this body. It is a sensible compromise between run-rampant speakers and undemocratic restrictions.
I never said Deputy-Speakers should not, according to the bill the Deputy-Speakers won't be chairing (even though I'd prefer them to be) so only one vote would be lost.
Impartial is the same thing as being unbiased, a vote either in favour or against is coming down on one side of the fence thus is not unbiased. One suggestion would be allowing the Speaker to abstain.
by The Sarian » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:37 am
Battlion wrote:I'll ask the honourable member to amend his bill to allow Deputy-Speakers to vote and retain their party membership.
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