[NSGS] Democratic Left [Official HQ]

[Mollary]

The thing is, hardly anywhere is starving. Countries are malnourished, but not starving. Otherwise they wouldn't exist yet.

I said "food on their plates", which would anyway cover malnourishment, but can also be taken as a diminutive for all forms of poverty. Alternatives include "a roof over their heads"; "drinking water"; "warmth and shelter", or "a place to sleep". Even if these do not alone cover the problems faced by the country in question, they all cover the same thing: poverty.

It was more as a reference to back up someone's point that starvation isn't much of an issue, it wasn't aimed at you particularly. Either way, internet increases food supply as impoverished farmers can better plan, along with allowing them access to information on farming techniques.

[Arkolon]

All I was suggesting was that we concentrate on alleviating poverty, not expensive secondary programs.

Increasing cheap or free access to the interest to allow for people to be entrepreneurial is one way to do this, no?

Come on, you tell me, if you asked the working parents of a family of five in rural South America what they would want from their government, how many would raise their hands and say "free WiFi"?

[Mollary]

Increasing cheap or free access to the interest to allow for people to be entrepreneurial is one way to do this, no?

Come on, you tell me, if you asked the working parents of a family of five in rural South America what they would want from their government, how many would raise their hands and say "free WiFi"?

They might not want wi-fi directly, but they would be supportive of policies that would better help them plan what crops to plant and when.

[Arkolon]

Come on, you tell me, if you asked the working parents of a family of five in rural South America what they would want from their government, how many would raise their hands and say "free WiFi"?

They might not want wi-fi directly, but they would be supportive of policies that would better help them plan what crops to plant and when.

Oh, like agriculture subsidies? Like benefits? Like agricultural educative programs? Like schools? Like water systems? Like clean drinking water programs? Like infrastructure developments? Like import tariffs? Like calendars? Like agriculture regulation? Like easy credit programs?

No, apparently it's like free WiFi, which, honestly, shouldn't even appear on that list.

[Mollary]

They might not want wi-fi directly, but they would be supportive of policies that would better help them plan what crops to plant and when.

Oh, like agriculture subsidies? Like benefits? Like agricultural educative programs? Like schools? Like water systems? Like clean drinking water programs? Like infrastructure developments? Like import tariffs? Like calendars? Like agriculture regulation? Like easy credit programs?

No, apparently it's like free WiFi, which, honestly, shouldn't even appear on that list.

All of those things are important, however, the internet allows up to date information to reach isolated areas. It needs, of course, to be part of a varied program. Moreover, I'm not even going to support wi-fi, that would be ludicrous, mobile internet coverage, however, which can be picked up with a phone worth a couple of dollars and with a little credit, would be useful.

[Dejanic]

I think Ark makes a key point. Free internet shouldn't be the first priority for the very poor. Will it help struggling farmers? Perhaps. But free internet does nothing for the very very poor who don't have any prior capital to stand on or develop. Though at the same time, I can definitely see how giving more people access to internet would generally help develop an economy and help raise living standards.

I say we split this down the middle, focus on more basic policies, like relieving the extremely poor out of poverty, homing the homeless, fighting against local gang warfare, producing clean water, encouraging public education/training/works projects, encouraging private investment through government initiatives, etc. Whilst at the same time, trying to spread internet access at a slower but steady pace as a secondary objective.

A good opening compromise imo would be to encourage the short term development of internet cafes, as well as libraries with free to access computers and free or extremely cheap basic computing classes. Ensuring that everyone within our nation has internet access from home can be a more long term goal.

[Unicario]

The internet for all citizens program would be a long-term aspiration, not something we put immediately down -- I'd rather we sort out our immediate problems and then delve into national development. I think we could find the means to gather money, even if it means borrowing from foreign nations, or the World Bank. The economic return in the long-run would be amazing; but we have more pressing issues such as human rights, sufficient food supply, international relations with aggressive neighbors (if there are any)

I never said it would be a first priority, infact. I simply suggested it be a goal of the party -- to provide internet connectivity and networking to all citizens so that we can facilitate economic trade, and prosperity for a new generation; no matter how long it takes, it should be an aspiration.

I must state that while I support the idea of creating a free networking infrastructure for citizens to access to help further their economic power; I will state that I do not support such a program being made half-assed, or without a concrete, concise plan for the future. To throw money into this without heeding greater issues is asinine at best.

The rightist invaders and misguided party comrades have misunderstood by long-term project goals with something I want to immediately put down if we become part of the administration.

TL;DR: Let's build up the country's stability and food supply, and then we can talk about this plan, which I want to happen after consideration and long-term R&D.

[Oneracon]

I see I've entered to some spirited debate

[The Liberated Territories]

I'm a "righist" invader, invading yo threads.

[Zunkwentania]

I'm a "righist" invader, invading yo threads.

Arkolon did it before it was cool

[Ainin]

Oh, like agriculture subsidies? Like benefits? Like agricultural educative programs? Like schools? Like water systems? Like clean drinking water programs? Like infrastructure developments? Like import tariffs? Like calendars? Like agriculture regulation? Like easy credit programs?

No, apparently it's like free WiFi, which, honestly, shouldn't even appear on that list.

All of those things are important, however, the internet allows up to date information to reach isolated areas. It needs, of course, to be part of a varied program. Moreover, I'm not even going to support wi-fi, that would be ludicrous, mobile internet coverage, however, which can be picked up with a phone worth a couple of dollars and with a little credit, would be useful.

Putting up HSPA/GSM-capable cell towers would cost a fortune. You'd be better off upgrading phone lines to support dial-up or something.

EDIT: A major advantage of dial-up is that it doesn't utterly disappear when it gets cloudy. A disadvantage is that it utterly disappears when a branch falls on the phone wires.

[Bandwagon]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

[Arkolon]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

Aside from yourself, who're the other far-leftists in the DL?

[Britanno]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

You have to be the most random person I've ever come across on this site.

[Dejanic]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

No, we're not. We never have been. We flirted with the idea of going big tent for literally 1 day, and on day 2 of this party we decided to go solidly centre-left/Social Democratic, with a bit of leeway for centrists/thirdwayists, and leftists/Democratic Socialists. We do not range towards the far-left at all, as we don't actually have any far-left members, we don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself OOCly (but I'll roleplay much more of a centre leaning pragmatist type).

[Bandwagon]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

You have to be the most random person I've ever come across on this site.

In what way?

[Malgrave]

I think Ark makes a key point. Free internet shouldn't be the first priority for the very poor. Will it help struggling farmers? Perhaps. But free internet does nothing for the very very poor who don't have any prior capital to stand on or develop. Though at the same time, I can definitely see how giving more people access to internet would generally help develop an economy and help raise living standards.

It is a good point if you assume that the idea put forward by Unicario and myself was to be put in place as soon as possible but as Unicario said we understand that such a policy cannot be implemented immediately and while it would be amazing to promote reliable internet in rural communities we have other potential problems to solve before we can even begin to think about introducing a computer literacy scheme.

I say we split this down the middle, focus on more basic policies, like relieving the extremely poor out of poverty, homing the homeless, fighting against local gang warfare, producing clean water, encouraging public education/training/works projects, encouraging private investment through government initiatives, etc. Whilst at the same time, trying to spread internet access at a slower but steady pace as a secondary objective.

I know the draft platform is rather vague on specific issues but I like to think that policies like these will be initiated if we get into government. I agree with our economics spokespersons views on creating full employment and driving up the quality of living for those in urban and rural communities in whatever country we find ourselves in.

A good opening compromise imo would be to encourage the short term development of internet cafes, as well as libraries with free to access computers and free or extremely cheap basic computing classes. Ensuring that everyone within our nation has internet access from home can be a more long term goal.

I've also seen non-profit organisations provide assistance in establishing internet hubs in developing communities, so in theory we could start on this goal without utilising government funds.

[Glasgia]

We defo are a big tent party. I'd actually say we range from Centre-Left to Far-Left.

No, we're not. We never have been. We flirted with the idea of going big tent for literally 1 day, and on day 2 of this party we decided to go solidly centre-left/Social Democratic, with a bit of leeway for centrists/thirdwayists, and leftists/Democratic Socialists. We do not range towards the far-left at all, as we don't actually have any far-left members, we don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself OOCly (but I'll roleplay much more of a centre leaning pragmatist type).

"don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself" he says, whilst talking to a member who is far-left.

[Arglorand]

No, we're not. We never have been. We flirted with the idea of going big tent for literally 1 day, and on day 2 of this party we decided to go solidly centre-left/Social Democratic, with a bit of leeway for centrists/thirdwayists, and leftists/Democratic Socialists. We do not range towards the far-left at all, as we don't actually have any far-left members, we don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself OOCly (but I'll roleplay much more of a centre leaning pragmatist type).

"don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself" he says, whilst talking to a member who is far-left.

One member does not a big tent party make.

[Glasgia]

"don't even have any solid left members really apart from myself" he says, whilst talking to a member who is far-left.

One member does not a big tent party make.

I wasn't saying you were big-tent, I was just laughing at the irony

[Bandwagon]

One member does not a big tent party make.

I wasn't saying you were big-tent, I was just laughing at the irony

The irony of this Senate is incredible.

[Atlanticatia]

As far as free internet goes, I don't think that is a priority at the moment, b/c first the poor need to not be poor, then they can start developing tech businesses

[Unicario]

The internet for all citizens program would be a long-term aspiration, not something we put immediately down -- I'd rather we sort out our immediate problems and then delve into national development. I think we could find the means to gather money, even if it means borrowing from foreign nations, or the World Bank. The economic return in the long-run would be amazing; but we have more pressing issues such as human rights, sufficient food supply, international relations with aggressive neighbors (if there are any)

I never said it would be a first priority, infact. I simply suggested it be a goal of the party -- to provide internet connectivity and networking to all citizens so that we can facilitate economic trade, and prosperity for a new generation; no matter how long it takes, it should be an aspiration.

I must state that while I support the idea of creating a free networking infrastructure for citizens to access to help further their economic power; I will state that I do not support such a program being made half-assed, or without a concrete, concise plan for the future. To throw money into this without heeding greater issues is asinine at best.

TL;DR: Let's build up the country's stability and food supply, and then we can talk about this plan, which I want to happen after consideration and long-term R&D.

[Atlanticatia]

The internet for all citizens program would be a long-term aspiration, not something we put immediately down -- I'd rather we sort out our immediate problems and then delve into national development. I think we could find the means to gather money, even if it means borrowing from foreign nations, or the World Bank. The economic return in the long-run would be amazing; but we have more pressing issues such as human rights, sufficient food supply, international relations with aggressive neighbors (if there are any)

I never said it would be a first priority, infact. I simply suggested it be a goal of the party -- to provide internet connectivity and networking to all citizens so that we can facilitate economic trade, and prosperity for a new generation; no matter how long it takes, it should be an aspiration.

I must state that while I support the idea of creating a free networking infrastructure for citizens to access to help further their economic power; I will state that I do not support such a program being made half-assed, or without a concrete, concise plan for the future. To throw money into this without heeding greater issues is asinine at best.

TL;DR: Let's build up the country's stability and food supply, and then we can talk about this plan, which I want to happen after consideration and long-term R&D.

I agree with this.

[Britanno]

In what way?

In the way you just randomly produce statements out of thin air.