[NSGS] Democratic Left [Official HQ]

[Atlanticatia]

I like the Nordic model because it takes the best parts of capitalism while cleaning up the not-so-good parts, and provides full employment, a fair balance between labor and capital etc

Full employment isn't the top priority, nor should it be.

Why not?

Full employment is the best way to give power to workers and drives up wages. Anyone who wants a job should be able to find one relatively easily. I don't mean 100% Employment obviously, but around 1-3% unemployment.

[Arkolon]

Full employment isn't the top priority, nor should it be.

Why not?

Full employment is the best way to give power to workers and drives up wages. Anyone who wants a job should be able to find one relatively easily. I don't mean 100% Employment obviously, but around 1-3% unemployment.

Because there are far more important parts to an economy. We can't just let unemployment, a countercyclical indicator that rises every time the business cycle ticks along, be our central, main target. Unemployment shouldn't be tackled at a macroeconomic level, in any case. Inflation or nominal GNI growth should be the macroeconomic priorities; employment is a political statement, and in most countries it's very easy to fix. All you need is some labour market flexibility.

[Britanno]

Hi, what's your party's main colour? I'm going to create a composition diagram soon. Thanks.

[Unicario]

Hi, what's your party's main colour? I'm going to create a composition diagram soon. Thanks.

Soviet red or Ukrainian blue. The RGB codes are available somewhere on the discussion thread for the party. I can tell you them if you'd like.

[Zunkwentania]

Hi, what's your party's main colour? I'm going to create a composition diagram soon. Thanks.

All the colors!

[Atlanticatia]

Why not?

Full employment is the best way to give power to workers and drives up wages. Anyone who wants a job should be able to find one relatively easily. I don't mean 100% Employment obviously, but around 1-3% unemployment.

Because there are far more important parts to an economy. We can't just let unemployment, a countercyclical indicator that rises every time the business cycle ticks along, be our central, main target. Unemployment shouldn't be tackled at a macroeconomic level, in any case. Inflation or nominal GNI growth should be the macroeconomic priorities; employment is a political statement, and in most countries it's very easy to fix. All you need is some labour market flexibility.

Well obviously it shouldn't be the only thing. But economic policy should go us on economic growth, price stability, and full employment, with all weighted equally. A balance.

[Arkolon]

Because there are far more important parts to an economy. We can't just let unemployment, a countercyclical indicator that rises every time the business cycle ticks along, be our central, main target. Unemployment shouldn't be tackled at a macroeconomic level, in any case. Inflation or nominal GNI growth should be the macroeconomic priorities; employment is a political statement, and in most countries it's very easy to fix. All you need is some labour market flexibility.

Well obviously it shouldn't be the only thing. But economic policy should go us on economic growth, price stability, and full employment, with all weighted equally. A balance.

I'm talking about macroeconomic monetary policy, not all economic policy. Monetary policy does not bring us real economic growth, save for deflation, which brings real economic contractions. It could be argued that low inflation causes more real consumption, yet this is at the expense of price stability. Price stability is important, but stable price growth is also just as important. I recommend instead nominal income targets, where all that is targeted by central banks is a nominal GNI growth of around 5%-- roughly meaning 3% real growth and 2% inflation. Full employment isn't necessary, desirable, or very relevant to monetary policy.

Technology brings productivity, making labour work harder, stronger, and faster, to the point where the labour is no longer human, but automated. If we replaced the whole manufacturing industry with automated robots, millions would go unemployed, but the greater output is conducive to insane amounts of economic growth.

[Atlanticatia]

So I've been thinking about what sort of tax rates DemLeft would propose. I came up with the following(in USD):

Social Contribution

• Rate of 16%. (8% from employee + 8% from employer)
• Only chargeable on wages and salaries.

Income Taxes (*if we have a low or middle income country, the income brackets would be lower to reflect lower wages.)

• $0-15,000: 0%
• $15,000-$40,000: 30%
• $40,000-$75,000: 35%
• $75,000-$150,000: 45%
• $150,000+: 52%
• Chargeable on wages, salaries, and capital gains.
• The main 'family' home is fully deductible, meaning no taxes will be charged on the capital gains from the sale.

Capital Gains Surcharge
Any person, earning capital gains, who is liable for the top rate (52%) of tax will be liable to pay CGS.
It is a 10% surcharge on the income tax amount. For example, if someone owes $120,000 in taxes on their capital gains, and they are paying the top rate of tax, then they will have to pay an additional $12,000 surcharge.

VAT

• Charged at a rate of 15%.
• Essential groceries and medicine would be charged at a rate of 0%.
• Most food in restaurants, non-alcoholic drinks, and books would be charged at 7.5%.
• Small businesses with turnover of less than $250,000 are not required to charge VAT.

Business Tax Rate (levied on profits)

$0-$1,000,000 (small business): 14%
$1,000,000+: 28%

Fuel Tax

• $2.50 per gallon / $0.66 per litre.

Property Tax(values will change depending on average property values)

Based upon property valuation.

• $0-250,000: 0.2%
• $250,000-$1,000,000: 0.4%
• $1,000,000+: 0.6%

Wealth Tax
Levied each year on net wealth. (assets - liabilities)

• $0-$1,000,000: 0%
  $1,000,000-$10,000,000: 1%
  $10,000,000+: 2%

We'll also have to work things out like cigarette taxes, alcohol taxes, tarrifs, etc etc. Amounts would be adjusted depending on the economic situation of the country we get. I'm also interested in a carbon tax but that would be depending on our country's situation, imo.
Also, another thing that would be feasible would be a soda tax - if our country has an obesity problem?

Any thoughts?

[The Nihilistic view]

BOO

[Zunkwentania]

So I've been thinking about what sort of tax rates DemLeft would propose. I came up with the following(in USD):

Social Contribution

• Rate of 16%. (8% from employee + 8% from employer)
• Only chargeable on wages and salaries.

Income Taxes (*if we have a low or middle income country, the income brackets would be lower to reflect lower wages.)

• $0-15,000: 0%
• $15,000-$40,000: 30%
• $40,000-$75,000: 35%
• $75,000-$150,000: 45%
• $150,000+: 52%
• Chargeable on wages, salaries, and capital gains.
• The main 'family' home is fully deductible, meaning no taxes will be charged on the capital gains from the sale.

Capital Gains Surcharge
Any person, earning capital gains, who is liable for the top rate (52%) of tax will be liable to pay CGS.
It is a 10% surcharge on the income tax amount. For example, if someone owes $120,000 in taxes on their capital gains, and they are paying the top rate of tax, then they will have to pay an additional $12,000 surcharge.

VAT

• Charged at a rate of 15%.
• Essential groceries and medicine would be charged at a rate of 0%.
• Most food in restaurants, non-alcoholic drinks, and books would be charged at 7.5%.
• Small businesses with turnover of less than $250,000 are not required to charge VAT.

Business Tax Rate (levied on profits)

$0-$1,000,000 (small business): 14%
$1,000,000+: 28%

Fuel Tax

• $2.50 per gallon / $0.66 per litre.

Property Tax(values will change depending on average property values)

Based upon property valuation.

• $0-250,000: 0.2%
• $250,000-$1,000,000: 0.4%
• $1,000,000+: 0.6%

Wealth Tax
Levied each year on net wealth. (assets - liabilities)

• $0-$1,000,000: 0%
  $1,000,000-$10,000,000: 1%
  $10,000,000+: 2%

We'll also have to work things out like cigarette taxes, alcohol taxes, tarrifs, etc etc. Amounts would be adjusted depending on the economic situation of the country we get. I'm also interested in a carbon tax but that would be depending on our country's situation, imo.
Also, another thing that would be feasible would be a soda tax - if our country has an obesity problem?

Any thoughts?

There needs to be a lower fuel tax on blends of B20 and higher.

[Atlanticatia]

There needs to be a lower fuel tax on blends of B20 and higher.

Yes you're probably right.

We'd probably have varying rates for diesel, etc, too but this was just something I threw together quite quickly.

Are tax rates too low? too high?

[Sunarctica]

'Ello! Heard there is now an official HQ for the Democratic Left

[The Nihilistic view]

Just going to leave this here as basic reasons for why encouraging the use of biofuels is bad and you should be ashamed. They should be taxed higher than ordinary fuel.

www.actionaid.org.uk/food-not-fuel/the- ... h-biofuels

[Atlanticatia]

'Ello! Heard there is now an official HQ for the Democratic Left

Hola you dirty commie! (since we are apparently going to be in Latin America)

[Zunkwentania]

Just going to leave this here as basic reasons for why encouraging the use of biofuels is bad and you should be ashamed. They should be taxed higher than ordinary fuel.

http://www.actionaid.org.uk/food-not-fu ... h-biofuels

Nope. The use of soybean oil in biodiesel ensures more protein supply at a lower cost. Anyway, it's a good budget!

[The Nihilistic view]

Just going to leave this here as basic reasons for why encouraging the use of biofuels is bad and you should be ashamed. They should be taxed higher than ordinary fuel.

http://www.actionaid.org.uk/food-not-fu ... h-biofuels

Nope. The use of soybean oil in biodiesel ensures more protein supply at a lower cost. Anyway, it's a good budget!

Still ticks all the criticism boxes, you've just found the least worst of an all round bad option.

[Zunkwentania]

Nope. The use of soybean oil in biodiesel ensures more protein supply at a lower cost. Anyway, it's a good budget!

Still ticks all the criticism boxes, you've just found the least worst of an all round bad option.

It still is a good option. You're not counting the fact that you produce 5x more energy than you use, which is overall good for the economy and commerce, therefore letting a bigger welfare state exist, therefore satisfying the needs of the poor.

[The Nihilistic view]

Still ticks all the criticism boxes, you've just found the least worst of an all round bad option.

It still is a good option. You're not counting the fact that you produce 5x more energy than you use, which is overall good for the economy and commerce, therefore letting a bigger welfare state exist, therefore satisfying the needs of the poor.

Whilst taking food, land and money from the poorest people in the world and not doing much if anything to reduce carbon emissions. Alternatives to fossil fuels are supposed to make the world and life for it's people better. Crop based biofuels fail that at every level.

[Zunkwentania]

It still is a good option. You're not counting the fact that you produce 5x more energy than you use, which is overall good for the economy and commerce, therefore letting a bigger welfare state exist, therefore satisfying the needs of the poor.

Whilst taking food, land and money from the poorest people in the world and not doing much if anything to reduce carbon emissions. Alternatives to fossil fuels are supposed to make the world and life for it's people better. Crop based biofuels fail that at every level.

"Much if anything?" But clearly, when you're getting 5 times the energy used back, and you're simply burning absorbed carbon, that's carbon neutral! It's a huge reduction! And taking food, land, and money? There are these things called regulation and welfare.

[Atlanticatia]

We need to attract more members, somehow.

[Britanno]

We need to attract more members, somehow.

Find an NS region centred around social democracy and target it with TGs.

[Ainin]

DL! DL! DL!

We need an official anthem that we sing at all our conventions.
I think the Internationale would be the best one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXNXKtu8z4

Use the French version

[Zunkwentania]

We need to attract more members, somehow.

Find an NS region centred around social democracy and target it with TGs.

There is Social Liberal Union, but ask the delegate first

[Sulania]

I apped to be apart of this party on the senator application... If that's alright.

[Zunkwentania]

I apped to be apart of this party on the senator application... If that's alright.

Welcome! Of course it's alright!